Dark Golem

[The Prophet]

This a thread for everyone on GL to post to say they seen Dark Golem Cheating with AlpoLoin. They played 12 games in a row. 2 sec matches.

[Foundation]

Yeah I saw him cheating...........Now what ?

[Baeoin]

It's funny that when I said something bout this a few months ago, I went unheard.

[The Prophet]

This will be the proof for DR

[Jeffery]

Now you take screenshots of the cheating, ad post evidence of said cheating.

[Office_Shredder]

sheeesh, this is what happens when you have noobs trying to do a proffesional's job.

Hearsay won't get him deleted guys

[The Prophet]

Here is his confession



http://img33.exs.cx/img33/9766/DarkGolem.jpg

[The Prophet]

Originally posted by Office_Shredder
sheeesh, this is what happens when you have noobs trying to do a proffesional's job.

Hearsay won't get him deleted guys


I am not a noob

[Jeffery]

Proof is screenshots from several people, all detailing the transition fo games.

Prrof is not saying it is so, and posting one pic you can;t read where a person supposedly admits to it.

And you are not a n00b, but this is hardly worth the effort of a thread unless done right from the start.

Originally posted by Office_Shredder

Hearsay won't get him deleted guys
A very true statement.

[Kalamady]

Saw him. Confronted him. Made fun of him. All that's left to do is set his stats to 750. :) DR?

[Dark Skull]

Wat the hell is happening. I went on Tactics Arena and then I hear all these people saying Dark Golem is a cheater. So someone plz tell me how Dark Golem cheated. I'm just wondering??

[The Prophet]

I forget you 2 are the master cheater catchers. I am just trying to make something known and have no reason to lie. I have 10 witnesses to the act.

[Jeffery]

But witnesses do not make evidence. Screenshots do.

[The Prophet]

Screenshots do nothing. It could simply be 10 shots of one match. Come on! Witnesses is your proof. Not 1 or 2 but 10-12!

[p51spittinnails]

i am truly sorry to say, but i have to admit, i saw dark golem cheating

crap, i forgot how to show people the screenie lol

and prophet, you now have 11

[Office_Shredder]

Except for the different ratings that you have up on the screen..... example:
pic one- rating: 750
pic two- rating: 777
pic three- rating: 800
pic four- rating: 815

meanwhile, the computer's clock has changed one minute.... then you can cause some suspicion.

[p51spittinnails]

i'll show you but i need to know how to send the screenie

[xyxaxyz2]

Originally posted by The Prophet
Here is his confession


http://img49.exs.cx/img49/9766/DarkGolem.th.jpg (http://img49.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img49&image=DarkGolem.jpg)

Any way to enlarge this?

[The Prophet]

Originally posted by Office_Shredder
Except for the different ratings that you have up on the screen..... example:
pic one- rating: 750
pic two- rating: 777
pic three- rating: 800
pic four- rating: 815

meanwhile, the computer's clock has changed one minute.... then you can cause some suspicion.

There is no freaking time to do all that. What is the first thing CSI want at a crime scene?.... You got it WITNESSES! My feelings won't be hurt if nothing comes of this but I know what I seen. So now it is up to DR and the crew to determine, and a pm has been sent to him.

[The Prophet]

Originally posted by xyxaxyz2
Any way to enlarge this?

It is suppose to be a clickable thumbnail.

It's fixed.

[Kalamady]

Is this what you ask for Jeffery?



http://img40.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img40&image=golem.jpg

[Jeffery]

That one screenshot is worth th word of 100 people.

Time and time again it has been shown that people making accusations in the forums mean nothing, that only screenshots, and mods and DR catching the person is the only way justice is dealt.
And 9 times out of 10 the screenshots still do nothing without DR or a mod catching the person doing it.

[S_K_O_F]

everybody go back and look again

golem admitted to padding his stats

[Jeffery]

Yes, he did. And that still means nothing. People have done it before, and will do it again. Look at those punished, and why they were punished. The past is all the proof you need to see what it takes to get a person punished in TAO.

[S_K_O_F]

people that have done this in the past have been reprimanded

remember the little incident with rabi, ozmaj, and that other guy

[Jeffery]

Yes. And look who actually caught them in the act.

[S_K_O_F]

im too lazy

who was it

:D

[Office_Shredder]

I believe it was either a mod or DR... just a hunch

[Jeffery]

No. Bottle actually made the initial posting. The cheaters themselves admitted to the scheme, and attempted to justify their behavior as a test. Others saw them as well.

DR stepped in and took action to make an example of them.

Surprising is the number of defenders they had for their attempt at "testing the ranking system"



And this was one extreme case, highly publicized. Look at all the small cases where evidence, including multiple eyewitnesses and repeated screenshots, where the person has gone unpunished for long periods of time, until certain Mods happen to see something in person.
The inactions in the majority of cases brought to the forums is the norm, the punishment is the exception.

[Office_Shredder]

It's unfortunate how some people take the belief that rating doesn't matter to the extreme, and cheat for rating points because it simply doesn't matter. And no one else cares... because rating points just don't matter.

[The Prophet]

To honest players rating means a great deal. For cheaters it means easy points for us.

[Office_Shredder]

Originally posted by The Prophet
To honest players rating means a great deal. For cheaters it means easy points for us.

"easy points for us"

what's that supposed to mean?

[Jeffery]

He means most cheaters are easier than heck to beat, and take away those illgotten points.

[Office_Shredder]

Ok... I thought he meant he was a cheater :o

A bit ambiguous, no?

[Jeffery]

Have you fogotten who he is?? I still trust his judgement.

[Office_Shredder]

I know, I didn't actually THINK he was a cheater, I was just confused by the statement

[xyxaxyz2]

Dark Golem is a pretty good player. Lots of cheaters are.

[theburning]

Actually most cheaters are pretty good players. Just not that good.

[S_K_O_F]

ok...um


are some of you guys actually supporting golem for gaining his stat points in this manner?

because I can't tell

[theburning]

Obviously not!
We're just saying that people seem to be under this false impression that cheaters have no skill. In reality, most of them are quite good! They just don't want to spend the time necessary to obtain their stats legitimately.

I'll see to it that he is reset as soon as possible.

[Jeffery]

No. I donlt think anyone is defending him. The discussion was more on what is better, witnesses or evidence, as well as what evidence is needed to assertain action be taken on the offender.

[S_K_O_F]

well...in my opinion, that little screenshot is enough evidence

he deserves punishment regardless of if he gets it or not

[Jeffery]

That screenshot could be evidence.

But what if he was not responding to the question, but answering another question that is now off screen? (hypothetically speaking)

I belive evidence must be overwelming, and then action should be assured. But that would require a set policy,, as well as consist reactions to such accusations being handled by staff.

[xyxaxyz2]

There have been reports of DG cheating for a long time; I think there is enough evidence.

[Jeffery]

As do I.
But i am pointing out the inconsistancy of handling of such cases. There are many many threads pointing out cheaters, some which have overwhelming evidence. And the great majority, if not almost all, of these cheaters have gone unpunished.

What makes this one cheater more special than the rest?

[kyrios24]

Jeffery... are you going mad? This guy is clearly a cheater, and as such deserves to be punished. So what if he's the one who happened to be caught? If a burglar broke into your house and the police nabbed him, should he be able to say that there are millions of thieves every year who don't get caught or punished, so therefore he should get off scot-free? No. Besides, it makes an example for other cheaters if your punish this one.

If he cheated to get his stats, then he gets reset to 750, at the very least. I mean, c'mon... he got up there illegitimately and must be dropped right back down. That'll teach him. Also, DR does punish cheaters. If it's as obvious as it is here (meaning pretty damn obvious), he takes them down. It's as simple as that.

Oh, and you're talking about the banff debacle with rabi et. al. Do you actually know what happened? I talked with her afterwards, and she told me the real story. DR sorta overreacted there, they really didn't do anything bad. They were all cancelling their gold accounts at the end of the month anyway, and they were just curious as to how high they could pump a rating. That's all. I don't think many people got to hear, or listened objectively to, their side of the story. Just keep this in mind when you next talk about that incident.

Now, with that said...
BAN HIM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thank you.

Edit: Oh bloody hell. I didn't mean ban. It's just one of those things I like saying, and I guess I got a bit carried away. What I meant to say was reset. Or something. Besides, ban is so concise... yeah, I just noticed that now. My bad.

[S_K_O_F]

Originally posted by kyrios24
Jeffery... are you going mad? This guy is clearly a cheater, and as such deserves to be punished. So what if he's the one who happened to be caught? If a burglar broke into your house and the police nabbed him, should he be able to say that there are millions of thieves every year who don't get caught or punished, so therefore he should get off scot-free? No. Besides, it makes an example for other cheaters if your punish this one.

If he cheated to get his stats, then he gets reset to 750, at the very least. I mean, c'mon... he got up there illegitimately and must be dropped right back down. That'll teach him. Also, DR does punish cheaters. If it's as obvious as it is here (meaning pretty damn obvious), he takes them down. It's as simple as that.

Oh, and you're talking about the banff debacle with rabi et. al. Do you actually know what happened? I talked with her afterwards, and she told me the real story. DR sorta overreacted there, they really didn't do anything bad. They were all cancelling their gold accounts at the end of the month anyway, and they were just curious as to how high they could pump a rating. That's all. I don't think many people got to hear, or listened objectively to, their side of the story. Just keep this in mind when you next talk about that incident.

Now, with that said...
BAN HIM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thank you.

this cheater is no more special than any other
they should all be punished by having their stats reset

[xyxaxyz2]

they were just curious as to how high they could pump a rating.

So all greys should be able to cheat??

Cheating is cheating.

[S_K_O_F]

Originally posted by xyxaxyz2
So all greys should be able to cheat??

Cheating is cheating.

mark it down on the calendar...i found something that i agree with xyx with

[Jeffery]

To Kyrios:
As for the rabi incident, what Rabi and them did was FAR worse than what this cheater did, You defend them in one breath, and ask for the banishment of this guy in the other???


You are a hypocrit of the most blatant nature. So people you like can get away with cheating, while people you don;t can not? Thank god your not a cop!

I at no time defended this guys actions. He cheated, and should be punished, AS MUCH AS EVERY OTHER CHEATER CAUGHT AND DISPLAYED ON THE FORUMS HAS BEEN.

Actions taken that are not consistant is not a deterrent to cheating. Lowing his stats will temporarily stop him, but still encourage the cheating to continue. A steady action taken to all cheaters will discourage cheating in general.

[S_K_O_F]

then perhaps it is time to start punishing them now

[Jeffery]

Originally posted by S_K_O_F
then perhaps it is time to start punishing them now
I agree. but that takes a policy and action of the staff that is uniform in it's punishment, something that has not been shown in TAO.

[DivineRight]

This is why Kyrios is one of those people on this forum that I have very little regard for. He only seems to jump into disccussions that don't concern him and point fingers like he is somebody special. Cheating is cheating and that is the bottom line. When people give their 2 weeks notice at their job, is it alright for them to start acting stupid by breaking work policy and causing havok? Your post is totally contradictory, you say that cheaters should be prosecuted but in Rabi and her friend's case I should of let it slide...where is the logic in that? BTW, I never reset Rabi or banned her and I have also let her know that she is welcome back as a Gold member whenever she wants, did she tell you that too? You think you know but you rarely ever do, that is your problem.

Anyhow, aside from that, I have a list of very respected players who were eye-witnesses to Dark Golem cheating...and I'm not talking about just 2 or 3 people, it is quite a substantial amount of highly regarded players from Great Lakes.

I appreciate Jefferey and Office_Shredder for their objective points of view, I'll definately look in on this.

[The Prophet]

Originally posted by Office_Shredder
Ok... I thought he meant he was a cheater :o

A bit ambiguous, no?

I am absolutely not a cheater. As Jeffery stated I meant some cheaters are not very skilled. Dark Golem is actually a decent player. He almost beat me in a turtle match.

Originally posted by Jeffery
I agree. but that takes a policy and action of the staff that is uniform in it's punishment, something that has not been shown in TAO.

I have been assured through pm's that this matter and all future matters of this kind will be handled appropiately by DR and the crew.


Dark Golem, was it worth it man?

[Sub-Zero]

BIG! mistake golem, cheater!... pffffft :mad:

[The Prophet]

This matter has been resolved.

[Warcow]

So has Dark Golem been proven a stat whore, or are we still speculating, I know for a fact that Dark golem earns at least 90% of his stats legitly, though I must admit there are times where he jumps rather quickly that I have suspected foul play

[psychofireman]

now he's gonna burn baby burn

[Jeffery]

Originally posted by Warcow
So has Dark Golem been proven a stat whore, or are we still speculating, I know for a fact that Dark golem earns at least 90% of his stats legitly, though I must admit there are times where he jumps rather quickly that I have suspected foul play

Rather quickly being 12 games lasting 5 seconds each in a space of a few minutes with the same guy???
That is not a stat whore who grey jumps for points, which is a shady thing, but not actually illegal. That is outright cheating by playing self/other games with the express intent to transfer stats with no gameplay.

If I make 90% of my money through work, but sell crack for the other 10%, should I be punished for selling crack?
YES!

Originally posted by psychofireman
now he's gonna burn baby burn

And you better NOT try and put him out!

[The Prophet]

I think DR and the crew handle this in a well manner. Dark Golem has had his stats reset to 750 and lost all his drops. I think this is the best form of punishment, unlike being banned.

[BlackSyphon]

no...this is cheating...

http://img8.exs.cx/img8/5945/photohack1.jpg
http://img20.exs.cx/img20/9935/photohack2.jpg
http://img8.exs.cx/img8/1295/photohack3.jpg

yes I know, I probably should have better things to do...

du :)

[Office_Shredder]

That kind of stuff is relatively easy to do... all you need is to be able to copy and paste on photoshop. I've done it myself several times to show a cleric taking 0 from a dragon despite a lack of a DSM.

On your LW picture there is a small streak of white where two tiles don't quite line up that would indicate a copied image was not placed quite right. I didn't bother looking closly at the others

[Warcow]

Jeffery I wasnt defending him at all, I was questioning if he cheats as well, becuase there are times when he jumps too quickly when I can't get a game to save my soul

[Jeffery]

Originally posted by Warcow
Jeffery I wasnt defending him at all, I was questioning if he cheats as well, becuase there are times when he jumps too quickly when I can't get a game to save my soul

Did you read the initial post where it stated he jumped 12 times within one minute???? What else but cheating could that possibly be?

[Warcow]

Yes but ive also seen people do that for different reasons, I personally had something like this happen, when GL went down even though I was winning quite handily against enraged I somehow lost, He graciously decided to give me the stats back, and wouldnt take no for an answer, and you can ask him about that too, there are always other factors, now im not saying thats what happened here . . . But im also not sure its damning evidence. However like i said, he does seem rather shady in how quickyl he gains stats sometimes, when there is really no one to play that would put him up that quickly

[Bottle]

Originally posted by kyrios24
Oh, and you're talking about the banff debacle with rabi et. al. Do you actually know what happened? I talked with her afterwards, and she told me the real story. DR sorta overreacted there, they really didn't do anything bad. They were all cancelling their gold accounts at the end of the month anyway, and they were just curious as to how high they could pump a rating. That's all. I don't think many people got to hear, or listened objectively to, their side of the story. Just keep this in mind when you next talk about that incident.

Kyrios, unlike DR I have a ot of respect for you. Now, it may well be that they were cancelling their accounts. But even so, that means one month before they turn from gold to grey, and another month or so before they are wiped. That's 2 months of someone sitting at the top of the rankings because they *wanted to have a little fun*. Is this fair on those of us who earned the right to be #1? Would you like it if you had been #2 to Smubeht, knowing he hadn't earned that rating?

I also concur with DR's statement about handing in your notice and then wreaking havoc.

[The Prophet]

Warcow did you look at the screenshots and read the lobby talk?

He blatently stated he done it cause Alpoloin's account is being canceled and Alpo said he could have the points.

[Leigh]

Originally posted by The Prophet
Warcow did you look at the screenshots and read the lobby talk?

He blatently stated he done it cause Alpoloin's account is being canceled and Alpo said he could have the points.

I hate to say it... But Prophets right...... TONS of us were in the lobby and heard his confession many times... as well as saw the actual cheating. :( :( :(

Sucks but reality is reality....... :(

[kyrios24]

Originally posted by DivineRight
BTW, I never reset Rabi or banned her and I have also let her know that she is welcome back as a Gold member whenever she wants, did she tell you that too?
Yes DR, I know that. I wasn't badmouthing you... on the contrary, I was telling Jeffery that he appeared to be defending this guy even though it is blatantly obvious that he's a cheater. Rabi did that a couple days before the reset! And not with malicious intent, either. I'm sorry, it wasn't nearly as bad as what this guy did. Oh, and DR, sorry for singling you out. I think the forums in general rose up prematurely against them.

SKOF. Jeffery. And xyx, sort of. Anyone who completely misinterpreted what I was saying... I hate cheaters. Hate them. And anyone who's heard me talk about them can attest to that. Where did I ever say that certain cheaters shouldn't have their stats reset?! Nowhere! It's just that not many people actually know what happened with Rabi, that it really was an experiment and not an attempt to materialistically gain stats.

Er. Back after a day, I fell asleep mid-message last night.

Just to finish this up. he should be punished, I wasn't saying any special treatment. Bottle - thanks for sticking up for me. But see, when my gold died, it was instantaneous. No month of grey or anything. So Smubeht really would've been topping out the list for a whole 2 days or something, unless my case was unusual. That's where I'm coming from on this, and I actually do think that their case was much less flagrant than that of the average cheater. An experiment! For the good of science! For posterity! For generations to come, and the future of our community! (Sorry, got carried away there...) Ok, so it was bad, but not as bad. Really.

Sorry if I said anything in my first post that could've been misconstrued, or if I expressed myself wrong somehow. It was all meant in the best possible way! I swear!

[Jeffery]

I see your point, but it is still invalid.

If I "experiment" by robbing a bank, in an effort to see how long it takes the police to get there, I am still a bank robber.

They manipulated the point system, no matter what their intent was. They cheated, no matter what their intent was.

Why should they be thought of as anything except people who manipulated the points, no matter what their intent was.

How do you knw this guy is not planning on quitting, and just testing out the points system????
He is a cheater, and has been punished, same as Rabi and the rest were.

[kyrios24]

*sigh* I'm just saying that the reaction against them was needlessly harsh. Perhaps they did deserve a stats reset, I'm not trying to argue against that, but it's just that everyone seems to be still so dead set against them after all this time, when really they were doing less than the average cheater. (Man, this has been blown out of proportion.)


Oh yeah, and this is why I got the impression that you were sticking up for him...
Originally posted by Jeffery
But i am pointing out the inconsistancy of handling of such cases. There are many many threads pointing out cheaters, some which have overwhelming evidence. And the great majority, if not almost all, of these cheaters have gone unpunished.

What makes this one cheater more special than the rest?Originally posted by Jeffery
That screenshot could be evidence.

But what if he was not responding to the question, but answering another question that is now off screen? (hypothetically speaking)

That's what threw me off. My bad. I should've thought back to the TTAC... you know. Whatever.:o

[Jeffery]

I was trying to get people to realise that more than one screenshot = better evidence.

As for blown out of porportion, that lies in the hands of DR and DR only. The fact was they cheated. They were punished.
Besides, if they were quitting anyways, why would getting their accounts deleted be any punishment at all?

[Rabi en Rose]

Wow some people still haven't gotten over that.

Hey kyrios, we admitted in that thread, and before it was even made on Banff, what we were doing, and clearly stated we were going to take the consequences and if DR felt like resetting our accounts it was all fine. So you don't have to get worked up about our punishment, which we basically invited on ourselves anyway. Thanks for trying to defend the honor of kwozmaj though, you internet hero, you.

You may have been misled into thinking that we were pissed off at the deletion, but actually it was a side effect of annoying self-righteous asses like Johnny Chimpo attempting to throw up strawmans every other post. Tempers flared and ozmaj did a huge rant on DR's PR policy, not really because he was going to reset us but because he was also siding with a lot of posters who were falsely accusing us of other things, such as trying to steal customers from TAO and send them to Legends (we were not), disrespecting the game and trying to get away with it (We weren't trying to get away with it. In no way tried to hide it. Actually we were pretty plain with it when anyone asked, and we were actually talking about it on the Banff chat as it was happening, before the thread was even made. So nobody can say, "This was an excuse you made up after you got called out on it."), and screwing over other people on the rankings. (The truth is, Smubeht, Ozmaj, and I were ALREADY at the top 5 of the banff rankings with 1400+ rating each, which was pretty high back then since ratings were only introduced for about a month. Since we were about to lose gold, we decided to GIVE UP OUR OWN HIGH POSITIONS and just pump Smubeht to a huge number for a fun finale. This actually moved everyone under us, which was almost everyone, UP by 2, since we were no longer occupying the top spots.)

In short, yes it was cheating, but without malicious intent. We got what we deserved but we did not appreciate the exaggerated accusations. We were originally prepared for "some" flames from people who wouldn't understand, but things got out of hand with flaming, and it ended badly for everyone, so DR did what he had to do to shut the flamers up who were screaming to lynch us (he knew this wouldn't affect us as much since we had already cancelled). At the same time, Dwarrior, who was not cheating, got dragged into the whole thing attempting to defend us. He went insane later and started image spamming and flaming everyone. Smubeht got the wrong message from him and thought it was ok to join in, for a last ditch "go out with a bang" attempt and spammed the forums. That was pretty embarrasing. And then there was MelonGuy and BlackJohnson who came around the same time to join in and made us look even worse, and they weren't even affiliated with us. Ugh.

/*end long explanation*/

[Warcow]

This has already been settled, Dark Golem is at 750 and this morning he announced he was leaving TAO, case closed

[Bottle]

Originally posted by Rabi en Rose
(The truth is, Smubeht, Ozmaj, and I were ALREADY at the top 5 of the banff rankings with 1400+ rating each, which was pretty high back then since ratings were only introduced for about a month. Since we were about to lose gold, we decided to GIVE UP OUR OWN HIGH POSITIONS and just pump Smubeht to a huge number for a fun finale. This actually moved everyone under us, which was almost everyone, UP by 2, since we were no longer occupying the top spots.)

And what about the other people in the top 5? They moved down. Is that fair?

[Twelve]

Sad, Dark Golem...sad. I'll catch ya on MSN.


12

[p51spittinnails]

i hate to say it, but i saw him, too. it really is such a waste to have excellent players steer towards the dark path...


by the way, how do you post other internet sites on here?
like where u click on it and it highlights and sends u to a different website? sorry for asking this but i dont know much about computers:)

[theburning]

You just type [url=http://www.thewebsite.com]name of site[url[

But of course! Switch the end to [url]

[p51spittinnails]

well, thank you very much, the burning. i am in your debt. have a nice day:)

[Sub-Zero]

You do have 4 knights p51.