The grey-owning formation

[Excession]

From what I can tell, there is pathetically little that any grey can do against the standard high-level gold formation.

That is :
Cleric in back corner, with ward protecting corner (usually lightning)
Dragon and 2 scouts
3 knights
1 frostie

Dragon and scouts slaughter any magic users that approach, and frostie cripples any melee assault. If you hang back, the scouts and dragon just gradually chew through your army, getting healed periodically (no chance to kill).

Barrier/enchantress might possibly work, although with 2 scouts out there it wouldn't be easy. Alternatively you might be able to do something with some nice drops.

Otherwise there is pretty much sweet f'all a grey can do against this. Agreed?

[Eldar[TN]]

Originally posted by Excession
From what I can tell, there is pathetically little that any grey can do against the standard high-level gold formation.

That is :
Cleric in back corner, with ward protecting corner (usually lightning)
Dragon and 2 scouts
3 knights
1 frostie

Dragon and scouts slaughter any magic users that approach, and frostie cripples any melee assault. If you hang back, the scouts and dragon just gradually chew through your army, getting healed periodically (no chance to kill).

Barrier/enchantress might possibly work, although with 2 scouts out there it wouldn't be easy. Alternatively you might be able to do something with some nice drops.

Otherwise there is pretty much sweet f'all a grey can do against this. Agreed?

A well done line rush can crush almost any formation including that one.

[Hammy]

"From what I can tell, there is pathetically little that any grey can do against the standard high-level gold formation."



I managed to beat a guy with a dragon. he had a 70-10 record too.

[Excession]

Eldar - pfft, why don't you try it on say, danoodle. You'll get whupped, because that formation can deal massive amounts of constant damage with ward, unmoving dragon, and knights/scouts that always hit your blocking units courtesey of mr. frostie.

Hammy - I've thrashed a lot of golds with dragons. It's the setup which is hard to beat, not the unit.

[Eldar[TN]]

Originally posted by Excession
Eldar - pfft, why don't you try it on say, danoodle. You'll get whupped, because that formation can deal massive amounts of constant damage with ward, unmoving dragon, and knights/scouts that always hit your blocking units courtesey of mr. frostie.

Hammy - I've thrashed a lot of golds with dragons. It's the setup which is hard to beat, not the unit.

o0

[Excession]

"Oo" doesn't count as a logical rebuttal.

The fact remains that dual scouts protected by two turrets (dragon + lightning) will just shred any grey army not specifically developed against that formation (and even then...).

[gekigarion]

Originally posted by Excession
Eldar - pfft, why don't you try it on say, danoodle. You'll get whupped, because that formation can deal massive amounts of constant damage with ward, unmoving dragon, and knights/scouts that always hit your blocking units courtesey of mr. frostie.

Hammy - I've thrashed a lot of golds with dragons. It's the setup which is hard to beat, not the unit.

Actually, I've almost beaten danoodle once, not to mention I only fought him once and that he was the first Gold I fought. Just have a correct mix of units. Your lightning ward in the front throws a wrench if he was planning to rush you with ANY mage, and his dragon may be powerful, but it's not as bad as two units attacking you.

Aim for the scouts first. I killed danoodle's first in two turns, and he had an epic battle with my assassin (Who's alone on the left side) with his other Scout. A barrier ward butts into plans when they are about to kill somebody, and NEVER underestimate your knight's power. The dragon is slow, very slow. A healing cleric cannot keep up with the onslaguth of two knights against a dragon, and witches die easily against your scout.

And the enchantress, my friends, is your magic number. It doesn't matter if you tie up only the dragon, as it equals two units, you just tied up two units. Keep the dragon (And possibly any knights or the like unlucky enough to be there) away, and don't worry about his cleric. As long as you don't use pyromancers, clerics usually can't do much at all to counter against a knight's, a lightning ward's, or a witch's attack.

I've beaten multiple gold accounts, even those with over 100 wins and only 20 losses. The units are good, but overall, this game is pretty balanced. So he has a dragon. You have either a witch and a dragon, an enchantress and a cleric, etc. in place of a dragon. He has two scouts? Get an early offense on them, and remember not to be afraid to sacrifice your units.

Play this like chess. Don't go all offensive or go all defensive, put in a nice mix of both. Know when to attack, and when to retreat. Know when to make sacrifices. Know how to use each unit to it's maximum potential.

[Eldar[TN]]

Originally posted by Excession
"Oo" doesn't count as a logical rebuttal.

The fact remains that dual scouts protected by two turrets (dragon + lightning) will just shred any grey army not specifically developed against that formation (and even then...).

The Oo refers to when we played o0 and its o0 not Oo

Learn the diffrence, Mr. Tron.

Anyway, the formation might be slightly stronger than I thought but its far, far from invincible.

[Excession]

Geki - I've beaten every gold I've faced who didn't use the formation I mentioned, including golds with records such as you describe.

"Aim for the scouts first" - pretty hard to do when they're just taking pot-shots at your mages from 6 squares. And if you'd read my description of the formation, no mage is required, and it certainly wouldn't be rushed.The dragon is slow, very slow. A healing cleric cannot keep up with the onslaguth of two knights against a dragon, and witches die easily against your scout. The dragon stays under cover of its lightning ward, and in combination will tear apart knights with the frostie behind. As I mentioned previously no mages are required, and your spellcasters die even faster against his 2 scouts.

Enchantress won't keep a dragon frozen when two scouts are hitting it. Nor is it likely that it would get frozen in the first place.

Eldar - "The Oo refers to when we played o0 and its o0 not Oo" Then it's meaningless because your lightning ward didn't come into play. You also got one of your turrets (dragon) killed because it wasn't being used like a turret, as it should be. And lined your scouts up for my witch.

[gekigarion]

Those two scouts hitting the enchantress first should be dead by the time you use her. You never, EVER use the enchantress unless the game has been going on for at least 13 turns, unless the enemy has some extremely strange setup that's perfect for her right away.

If the dragon is cowering behind a lightning ward, you STAY ON DEFENSE. They want to play defensive, two can play that game. If his dragon decides to take potshots at say, your lightning ward, a barrier ward will fix that. And if his dragon tries to close in, he can't run away until a short while.

You have a scout. As long as you attack and don't move with it, you only have to wait one turn between attacks. The cleric has to wait for 3.

I've beaten many gold accounts with records such as 104 wins - 20 losses. It's not that much. Trust me. You have to know how to use your units.

[Excession]

Geki - It's obvious you've never encountered this strategy. How exactly do you kill two scouts sitting next to their defensive formation (one on either side)? Basically, you can't, because his range (double scout and dragon) owns your range (mages + scout).You have a scout. As long as you attack and don't move with it, you only have to wait one turn between attacks. The cleric has to wait for 3. And he has 2 scouts, same rules apply. He has no soft targets - dragon is 40% block, scouts 60% - whereas you do (mages).

So he's "scouting" you every turn, and you're scouting him every other turn. And his scouts have a greater opportunity to do damage due to your soft targets - he can heal faster than you can do damage with 1 scout (due to block), whereas you cannot heal faster than his dual scouts.I've beaten many gold accounts with records such as 104 wins - 20 losses. It's not that much. Trust me. You have to know how to use your units. And as I've said before, this is a null point because I too have beaten golds with such records (and better records). And of course, I know how to use my units (which is why I've only ever been beaten by one grey, when I swapped servers and forgot to setup a halfway decent formation).

[Radiantguy99]

And it's quite obvious that you are just jealous. I suggest you remove whatever is up your ass and instead of going on and on about how this formation is "unbeatable" you figure out how to beat it. There's counters for everything. Grow up.

[Excession]

Radiant - I'm going to go out of my way to help you with your comprehension problems.

Firstly, look up the word "jealous" in the dictionary.

Secondly, I've described why it is extremely hard for a grey army to beat (without unit drops).

Saying that there are counters for everything just shows that you're clueless - when the enemy has access to a wider range of units, there is not necessarily a counter since you can't even mirror their formation.

I think it's fine that golds have a better range of troops than greys. However, I initially posted this because I was annoyed at the futility of fighting this particular formation - a warning to greys if you will.

[Radiantguy99]

However, in every single post that you have made you have reiterated that "OMFG LOOK AT THIS FORMATION ITS THE GAWD FORMATION". That is what I get when I read your post.

Pyro's will own that person along with a DMW. Put those behind a few knights and he'll be forced to attack you. This game isn't about the units, it's all about the strategy. If you lack the ability to see the inherent flaws in the strategy this person has used against you, then that is your problem. It is a very easy strategy to counter.

So as I said before, stop saying that this formation that is being used is overpowered/rigged/god/hard. What it comes down to is tactics, obviously you dont' understand that.

I will not be replying again if all you do is claim NO NO NO NO NO YOUR LYING. Put some details in, along with reasons for it instead of just defending your claim with NO

[gekigarion]

Originally posted by Excession
Geki - It's obvious you've never encountered this strategy. How exactly do you kill two scouts sitting next to their defensive formation (one on either side)? Basically, you can't, because his range (double scout and dragon) owns your range (mages + scout). And he has 2 scouts, same rules apply. He has no soft targets - dragon is 40% block, scouts 60% - whereas you do (mages).

So he's "scouting" you every turn, and you're scouting him every other turn. And his scouts have a greater opportunity to do damage due to your soft targets - he can heal faster than you can do damage with 1 scout (due to block), whereas you cannot heal faster than his dual scouts. And as I've said before, this is a null point because I too have beaten golds with such records (and better records). And of course, I know how to use my units (which is why I've only ever been beaten by one grey, when I swapped servers and forgot to setup a halfway decent formation).

Well actually, I have encountered a strategy (Not the exact, but very similar).

The trick is, as I've said, to play defensive as well. If he doesn't want to attack, and you don't, you can call it a draw. If he plays defensive, stick your knights in the front so that his scouts can only shoot at their fronts as well. Then, when he decides to go on the offense, THAT's when your Scout becomes better. If he goes on offense, rush his scouts. The field is not large at all, and if you knight rush any scout, they're dead meat unless your opponent happens to be very lucky. Their blocking is decent, but not stupendous.

I know that saying I've beaten many gold accounts is a null point, I'm just pointing that out as a "n00b-proof label" on myself so that people on the forums (Like most game forums) can't use the old "Your a n00b so stfu" as a counter. That's all. It's not aimed toward you, don't worry.

I also only have one mage in my party. It's the witch. I never use pyromancers against golds, because if they have formations such as the ones you've stated, you need focused damage, not spread damage. You said his dragon has 40% block? That's not a lot, at all, consider that Scouts can hit from the side really easily (A diagonal angle towards the front counts as a side hit, and a diagonal angle towards the back counts as a back attack)

And correction: The scout cannot move until THREE turns after he shoots. It says 2 turn recovery, so you:

Turn 1: Shoot.
Turn 2: After this ends, it says "Wait one more turn."
Turn 3: After this ends, your Scout can move again.
Turn 4: NOW your Scout can shoot.

You know what that means? That means he CANNOT shoot every turn. What you do is:

Get in defensive formation, Knights facing forward. Your Scout pokes his head out and shoots, and then your opponent's Scouts will try to shoot him. If you don't like that, then I suggest putting a Barrier on your Scout the next turn.

[Excession]

Geki - yup I've worked out that I have to regroup first. However, I don't think a lasting defence can be held against a good gold, as you suggest. Dragon/scout/scout will just eat away at your front line, even assuming that you can protect your casters.

I was recently fortunate enough to have one such player go on the offensive (and he lost), but I believe had he stayed back he'd have won fairly easily - I suspect he got impatient.

I'm not sure, but I believe if scouts are holding position then it's one turn recovery. May be wrong on that one, but at any rate he can throw his dragon into the cycle since it remains under protection of LW.

Diagonal angle toward the front actually counts as front (at least with *my* scouts), so it's harder than you say to get side hits on a dragon. Not that one scout doing an average of 10-12 damage every few rounds is anything to worry about.

No pyros is probably a good idea, although I like them because people don't often realise that 1/3 block is actually pretty good. I dunno - still seems really rough to me.

Radiant - However, in every single post that you have made you have reiterated that "OMFG LOOK AT THIS FORMATION ITS THE GAWD FORMATION". That is what I get when I read your post. All I can say to that is - learn to read. As for details, I've given plenty of those (again, the reading thing). You, unsurprisingly, have given almost none besides saying that a few mages behind knights would own it. In order to attack with mages you need to move out from behind the knights' cover (else the knights would be vulnerable to the turrets). And if you move out, then you get two arrows in the face (or if it's the witch, one dragon blast).

[Radiantguy99]

Ok, details then.

Lets say his formation is the following:

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
_ _ _ K K L K A _ _ _
_ _ _ _ S D S _ _ _ _
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
_ _ _ _ C _ _ _ _

In that set up, the right side is vulnerable. However, this setup is doubtful in the fact that it is centered, and most good players don't center. So let's use the formation of:

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ K L K K
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ S D S _
_ _ _ _ _ _ A _ _ _
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ C

Again, such a concentrated setup makes it very easy for Pyro's to hit early on. As another suggestion, Enchantress + Barrier ward would totally shut this down. The enchantress can withstand a hit from anything there. Protect your barrier ward, and you're find, you force him to compensate certain units to defeat your barrier ward, where if done correctly, your knights will destroy his units.

Even with minor modifications as to unit placement the main idea is the same. Pick off his units one by one, use a barrier ward. Remember LOS (Line of Sight). That's very important with the archers, use his units to block LOS to yours.

[Excession]

Thanks for the details - definitely some good suggestions.

It's usually something like the following :

___________
___________
_______LDKS
_____SK_KF
________C

Note that there's a frostie instead of an assassin. The frostie performs a number of important roles, including prevention of enchantress paralysis, barrier or no.

Pyros will only be able to hit one unit for feeble damage unless they come right forward where they will certainly die (rather than simply probably).

Picking off his units is difficult, because you only have one scout. He is doing the same to you, but with two scouts, and a dragon he can use if there's no risk. Both scouts have easy escape routes.

So how would you counter the setup above?

[Dunbar]

I think the frost golem may be the problem. I've played golds as a grey, both before going gold and on other servers. I can deal with dragons. I can deal with scouts.

The frost golem is a real problem. If they take out your one scout, you are in big big trouble. The frost golem dooms most any attack to failure...and you can't not attack, because of the scouts and dragon.

As much as I love my frost golem, I have to wonder if it is just too strong.

[Radiantguy99]

Using this formation:

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ L D K S
_ _ _ _ _ S K _ K F
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ C

A pyro, while unable to do much about the lightning ward / dragon, could in fact move forward, hit the frostie, knight, cleric, and dragon with his attack. Most players will go for the one shot kill with the ward. Then what you do is you move a knight (or another pyro if you ahve him and do the same exact thing.) If he then either uses the left scout on him, you then move in for the paralysis, or if he does not use that scout, bring down a knight to support (blocking LOS to the place where your enchantress will be going).

Next move your enchantress do just above the knight, and diagonal to the dragon and scout. This allows for you to paralyze everything there, the knight, frostie, the scout, and the dragon. Right away barrier ward your enchantress. The LW will be unable to help because it was just fired a few turns ago. He will be forced to send the scout to deal with the barrier ward. Once he hits the barrier ward, do the same thing over, just paralyze again, then use a unit to deal with the scout (or heal the barrier ward and just use it's power again).

If he sends up his scout, bring out your witch and use her power on him, then use another knight to KO him. He shouldn't be able to get within range of your barrier ward in one turn if his scout is so far back in his lineup.

Again, for this to work, your setup must be better than the starting setup. Other than that, it relies on some luck, tactics, and a lot of skill.

[Ri'Orius]

Um, with that formation, isn't a Witchburn kinda easy to acheive? And if you get rid of his Cleric, he can't really swap potshots with you anymore, since you can heal and he can't, right? Plus, without the Cleric, a Pyro can get some solid damage out against that formation; with a Cleric, it would be healed easily, but without, it's quite effective.

Seems to me that if you Witchburn the Cleric, his strategy kinda breaks down, right?

[Link_X]

Does anyone know a good formation for someone who just started with the normal units

[ALF_hates_you]

you have to come up with your own formation. depending on wheter your a defensive or offensive player. spread out your people but make sure that theres always another unit close enough to back it up. AND aLWAys put a unit 4 spaces infront of your cleric, otherwise your cleric will die from a witch in one hit.

[Excession]

Ri'Orius - Well Witchburn is kinda easy to achieve if you start on the perfect column (guessing the side of the formation), and get the first move. If you don't get the first move, your witch dies instantly to dragon. And you have to hope he didn't place his cleric out one square too.

Any later in the game, the cleric can move and either the scouts or one hit from the dragon will get her first. The Dragon is the real anti-witch unit, because any position ready to witchburn the cleric is vulnerable to the dragon.

Radiant - You could get a four-square pyro attack off, but you won't get much more. A good response (esp if another pyro is waiting in the wings) is to heal, since you have 3 rounds to kill off that pyro.

Against the enchantress, one of the two scouts will break paralysis. Then he can just move frostie across and paralyse your enchantress. That's assuming he hasn't hit your enchantress once already while it's in the wings.

[Dragonslayers]

The problem with this "uber-formation" is that LW and D have very long recovery times.

The best way to counter this formation is to move up Knights just outside the range of the Dragon/LW, with your mages/scout behind them. 80% Knight blocking means the sniping you're getting is pretty much worthless.

Now you move up Knights into range. If the enemy strikes them with the Ward and Dragon, then you have 4 turns to move in your mages and kill a good unit [usually 2 or 3 hits] and get out. Rinse and repeat.

If he doesn't hit the Knights, keep moving more in. Move ALL your two-hit units in. Then move in the one-hits. The Dragon or Ward will kill a one-hit [say a Pyromancer] but you now have five or six other units right next to the formation and ready to roll.

Anyway, Beastrider will rule that formation. Two turn cleric kill and then the game's yours. Turtling is a dead letter now. PURELY defensive formations are going to get eaten :D

[gekigarion]

Originally posted by Excession
Geki - yup I've worked out that I have to regroup first. However, I don't think a lasting defence can be held against a good gold, as you suggest. Dragon/scout/scout will just eat away at your front line, even assuming that you can protect your casters.

I was recently fortunate enough to have one such player go on the offensive (and he lost), but I believe had he stayed back he'd have won fairly easily - I suspect he got impatient.

I'm not sure, but I believe if scouts are holding position then it's one turn recovery. May be wrong on that one, but at any rate he can throw his dragon into the cycle since it remains under protection of LW.

Diagonal angle toward the front actually counts as front (at least with *my* scouts), so it's harder than you say to get side hits on a dragon. Not that one scout doing an average of 10-12 damage every few rounds is anything to worry about.

No pyros is probably a good idea, although I like them because people don't often realise that 1/3 block is actually pretty good. I dunno - still seems really rough to me.

Radiant - All I can say to that is - learn to read. As for details, I've given plenty of those (again, the reading thing). You, unsurprisingly, have given almost none besides saying that a few mages behind knights would own it. In order to attack with mages you need to move out from behind the knights' cover (else the knights would be vulnerable to the turrets). And if you move out, then you get two arrows in the face (or if it's the witch, one dragon blast).

Well, first of all, Dragon/Scout/Scout won't work very well because his Dragon shouldn't be attacking you, otherwise you can flank it before it recovers.

Secondly, now that the Dragon is out of the way, your Scout is free to go on attack while his Scouts are on attack. No matter what, using only two Scouts, they can't kill your Scout with full Health in 2 turns. And the Cleric recovers every three, and if you feel your Scout is ever in danger during recovery time you can use a Barrier. So if you ever, EVER make a mark with your arrow, and he can't happen to heal or anything, then immediately rush him with a witch or something. Even if it costs your witch its life, if you can kill his Scout, it's worth it. Then, your Knights with their 80% blocking will be VERY difficult to get through (Every 2 out of 10 turns he will make a hit, on average, which is more than easy enough to heal away.)

Third, I meant pure diagonal shots with the archer count as side shots. Meaning:

O = Square
D= Dragon
S = Scout

OOOOOO
OOODOO
OOOOSO

In that alignment, the Scout would be counted to have a side attack.

[Excession]

Geki - Well, first of all, Dragon/Scout/Scout won't work very well because his Dragon shouldn't be attacking you, otherwise you can flank it before it recovers. Flanking the dragon involves walking into range of both lightning ward and frost golem. He can heal it and then fly back behind his front line. Unkillable.

Scout + witch won't kill a scout even without healing.

And thirdly, when I last checked, pure diagonal shots seemed to count as front - however this may vary depending on the programming.

Dragonslayers - a push might work, but remember he'll block you with his knights. And beastrider will certainly get blocked by any decent player.

[Dragonslayers]

Beastrider is rather hard to block. Do people successfully block Assassins? Now imagine the same unit, but it has one more hit's worth of HP. Not too shabby.

Turtling formations are nice but their great defect is that they affect only a tiny area of the board. When the game starts, my immediate reaction will be to pull back all my units into a makeshift defensive formation, out of range. If you get lured in - perhaps you're bored by my noncombat maneuvers - you have lost the advantage of the "perfect" formation. Let's say you're patient. I have infinite time to rearrange my units as I like. True, your formation is impervious from the front. What if I move my units to the opposite side of the board, as quickly as I can, then start a slide down the wall? Is your formation defensive from the side? A quick Beastrider ambush combined with a Pyro suicide will take out the Cleric.

Your formation is horribly flawed anyway, at least so far as protecting the cleric is concerned:

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ W _ _
_ _ _ _ _ S _ _ _ _ _
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ L D K S
_ _ _ _ _ S K _ K F
_ _ _ _ B _ _ _ C

Any of the bolded units, which are a Beastrider, a Scout, and a Witch, can hit the cleric. You are turtling; I have all the time in the world to bring all these units just out of range and recover... Remember that the Witch and the Scout are already in range from that stance, and that the Beastrider has 0 recovery when not attacking.

A far better defensive arrangement is:

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ L D K S
_ _ _ _ _ S K K F _ _
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ C

This at least blocks the Scout shot, protects against the Beastrider, and allows you to control the western half of your own field. Something you certainly aren't doing in your present arrangement.

[gekigarion]

Originally posted by Excession
Geki - Flanking the dragon involves walking into range of both lightning ward and frost golem. He can heal it and then fly back behind his front line. Unkillable.

Scout + witch won't kill a scout even without healing.

And thirdly, when I last checked, pure diagonal shots seemed to count as front - however this may vary depending on the programming.

Dragonslayers - a push might work, but remember he'll block you with his knights. And beastrider will certainly get blocked by any decent player.

The Dragon takes three full turns before it can move again, unless it was already sitting in front of you waiting to be hit. Three direct smacks from Knights and a zap from the lightning ward should be more than enough to kill it, even if it gets a measly 12 HP healing. If you're going to assume that his lightning ward happens to be everywhere on the map, I'm going to assume that yours happens to be in the right place as well. Zap it with your lightning ward.

If his lightning ward is in the middle of the map, hide in a corner. If it's on a side of the map, hide somewhere else. The lightning ward has an whopping 3 range, and it's hard to get in its range, usually.

And if his Dragon goes back and retreats, do the same. One of you will have to go offensive sometime. Until then, it's a stalemate, unless he's super lucky and his Scouts like to hit the Knights from the front every turn.

[Excession]

Geki - If you both go on the defensive, then even with 2 scouts he's able to kill units in 2 shots whereas you cannot. 3 knights cannot protect an army.

The scouts can move just into range and not shoot. Then they can shoot from standing position, giving them ample opportunity to run if necessary. You cannot kill a scout in 2 hits.

And he can push the dragon forward - it is impossible to kill in 3 attacks, even if you're lucky and none are blocked. In most situations you'll only get to attempt two attacks on it, and he's never going to let your ward strike it.

So that's the difference - I don't think it's a stalemate if you both back off.

Dragonslayers - Beastrider is rather hard to block. Do people successfully block Assassins? Now imagine the same unit, but it has one more hit's worth of HP. Not too shabby. Sure, if you're playing a noob, you'll get his cleric. Against a good player, you won't be able to get next to his cleric.I have infinite time to rearrange my units as I like. That's where I disagree. His two scouts (and dragon when possible) are plugging your troops all the way. You will lose units slowly but surely.

You seem to assume that a player in this formation can't move. Believe it or not, if you bring your army (or what's left of it) down the side, they'll be facing almost the same formation from that angle, with only a few adjustments from the defender.

Note that according to your beliefs, just about every formation is horribly flawed, since most are vulnerable to a luckily guessed witch placement along with first move. As explained previously, if you get the side wrong your witch is vulnerable, and if you dont get first move witch dies instantly to dragon (which doesn't even have to move).

Obviously units are going to be moved to block either the beastmaster or the scout if they get that close. Note that this isn't "my" formation at all. It is merely an example of the type of formation commonly used by strong gold players, which is very effective against greys.

Notice that the scout dies almost instantly in the position you've put it in. Considering that player has only one, probably not a wise use of resources.

I agree that the modification you suggest may make the formation stronger, although I wouldn't move the frostie across.

[Choi]

This is one of the best defensive formations that I've seen:

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ L _ _ _
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ D _ _
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
_ _ _ _ _ S K K S
_ _ _ _ K F C