Point System (all members should read and contribute)

[Drunken Dragon]

I wanted to start a thread about the suggestion to develop a point system for the amount of units your allowed to have on the field. I think it’s really the only way to balance the game between new and old players. For example: if a player has 2 clerics he has a MAJOR defensive advantage over a player who does not, but if we were to use a point system we could allow for a player to have 2 clerics but have their potential offensive power decreased… say they could no longer afford a knight, or perhaps a dark witch or pyromancer… I’m not sure exactly what the point system should be but I figured we could fight it out here and come up with a good starting point for the game makers to work from.
Also I think we should put limits on how many of the same type of character you can have on the field. Three clerics would be totally insane, same with 3 archers… and quite frankly I think 3 knights is too many.
Anyway, let the debate begin.

[Zoop]

You mean like a handicap system? Like they use in golf or bowling? It might be useful if it was a mutual agreement...

[Seiya]

I think it would be really neat to have a whole team of Scouts for instance, but you're right, that would totally throw the game out of wack. The different units can have certain advantages in certain positions so it's hard to label them with a clear value. I think you should be limited to three of each type of people, one of each golem, and two of the contraptions. Seem fair?

Rough outline (correct me if it seems wrong):
Knight:10 pts
Pyromancer: 8 pts
Cleric: 6 pts
Scout: 9 pts
Assassin: 7 pts
Enchantress: 5 pts
Dark Magic Witch: 8 pts
Barrier: 6 pts
Lightning Ward: 10 pts

Should people then have 80 or 90 pts? What do you think?

[AzN_GuY]

more than 2 scouts would be... O.O
iono... a points system would take a while to hammer out... cuz we'd start to see a lot of similar point armies and such... iono... meh...

[Rexxx]

Easy enough to do...

Give the user 350 points to spend.

Use each unit's hitpoints to determine the value.

Knights are 50
Pyro is 30
Cleric is 24
Scout is 40
Assassin is 35
Enchantress is 35
Witch is 28
Barrier is 32
Lightning is 56

The default board setup uses 344 points.

You might think that a Cleric costing only 24 points isn't right.. but think about it, a cleric takes one hit from a witch.. two from most other units. EASY to kill, basically, so, you spend less. However, the minute you spend that 24, you have to change what else you have... The game would end up balanced in the long run with this, I think.

Set up as many boards as you can using this math, and I think it all works out. This would also allow them to not even think about value while designing units... just keep building units for balance, and the value will take care of itself.

Rexxx

[Yazz]

its a cool idea, i think it could work out... for the hitpoints, thats logical, but would it work in the long run? noobz would still die cause they dont know how to balance the field, so we are basically doing it for the medium to pro players. in fact, i think noobz would be more lost unless they have the 10 units and 2 spare to choose from. but if you all think that the game has enough pro's and intermediate players for the noobz having to catch up, then id say go for it. i won two games this morning :D

ciaoz:cool:

[Rexxx]

Nah.. default would STILL be the current board layout..... Only your settings area would change. So newbies would still have a good cahnce, and you can bet they'd ask a bunch of questions when they play someone with a team full of pyros!

[bigmikeybig]

Personally I think the [points system using the hit points would be a great idea. and yeah of cousre the noobz would die but thats part of being a noob I say. half of em get slaughtered as it is anyway. besides if the pros and intermediates help out the noobs then after a game or two theyll get the hang of it.

[AnalChampion]

I think it may be a little to early to really put a point system into effect. It would just be another thing to add to the stack of ideas.. I really think a point system is a good idea, not bad to think of it early, but we haven't even seen all the units yet, let alone play with them, and there's more comming.. I think we should let a couple more units come out, test game play and then maybe intro a point system if we see some unbeatable armies, like if new players stand entirely no chance at all at killing them. the game isn't being broken(amazingly cheap) yet, when that happends, then is a good time to start thinking about it.

[Yazz]

dude, u gotta remember that the earlier we incorperate something, the better it is in the future. we have to let people get used to it early or else they'll be way too used to the old way, get what im saying? i say we let the dragon come out and then design the system from there. but we shouldnt wait too long, if we make the points system a part of the infrastructure, then itll be solid and the game will bind with it, as will the new uints. u have to remember that new units arent really eistant, so why sould we develop the system according to new units. let the new units develop according to the system, id say. and analchampion, i was going to say the same thing, till i thought twice about it.

[Scarab00]

The point system would be a great idea. I think it would definitly even things out for new and old players. Plus it would give us some custimizability for our armies. But, you would need a cap on the maximum number of a single unit that can be in the army. That way you could not just have an army of pyromancers or an army of scouts.

[jaydude6]

i'd actually like a sort of "store"- win so much ( I mean alot) and you can "buy" a unit
of course this might be bad as this would give motivation to cheating.
the point system would be too complicated

[MallaLubba]

I don't know about all that point system. I was really looking forward to the fact that experience and dedication award those with possibly a more dominating team. Kind of like those who play more and are better get a better array of arsenal. Sure it may give those who are new a disadvantage, but if the players who have these advantages are real players they wouldn't use it against newbs. That would just be a boring game anyway. I would just like the option to arrange my field anyway I wanted with the units I have available. Putting a restriction on it would be annoying.

[thrdflrmshr]

This should probably be moved to the Suggestions forum and be put up for serious consideration. Maybe the point system, as described in the first couple of posts, could be implemented and used on only certain floors of the Revelation server. Of course, new drops would have to be added, but they could only be used when in conjunction with the point system.

Something like this could seriously improve the game experience. It would be totally fresh and new. Sure it would take a lot of work, but it'd be worth it to be able to try crazy formations, like 5 scouts and 3 frost golems and a dragon, or something.

I'd like to hear what people have to say about this idea.

[ArcPaladinZero]

I saw Azn Guy and was like whoa what's going on... then I realized this was just necroposted... my hopes were up there for a second...

[Omega_Paladin]

I like it. Would defintely help balanced out games. To prevent over-saturated of certain unit types, like 7 DMWS in Mage Bombs, or 8 Scouts, I suggest that after like 2 or 3 of a single type of unit being placed on the field it's value starts to increase.

[thrdflrmshr]

Maybe different floors could have different total points used? That would be so much fun to have crazy setups, whether it involves more units or less units.

[GeneralBenedict]

I think a floor where you could only use around five units worth of points could be pretty cool. Yet I think something could be implimented where the second unit after the first one costs more. So it would be fairly expensive to have double scouts, or double froties on rev, etc.

[thrdflrmshr]

So, are we in accord that the current system should definitely be kept in place, but this new point system should be available if two players want a game with these constraints?

[Jeffery]

Necroposted and useless.

There is a point system. You can have 10 guys on the field, dragon counts as 2.
If you want 2 clerics, you have more defense, but less room ofr offense.

Seems like they solved this long ago, so no need to regurgitate it.

[Megabyte]

i fail to see why such a handicap system should be even considered. The purpose of the matches is to gain in rank. There is already a handicap system in place for the rankings, i.e. the higher ur rank, the less pts you get (i know its a simplification of the setup, but u get my meaning).

Anyone see why a setup like this should be implemented? It just seems redundant to me.

[nads]

Originally posted by Jeffery
Necroposted and useless.

There is a point system. You can have 10 guys on the field, dragon counts as 2.
If you want 2 clerics, you have more defense, but less room ofr offense.

Seems like they solved this long ago, so no need to regurgitate it.

I think they need to make a way to see all the posts someone has made in 1 day, then I could just read all of Jeffery's flames from today and laugh my ass off. This is slam 3 tonight that had me laughing. Nice one, jeff

[Shattered Rose]

it's not really a handicap system...

I like the idea of a point-value system instead of flatline 10 units on the feild at a time... but based solely on their hit-point value? no way... there's a lot more that goes into a unit's feild value than that.

it should be an average of their hit points, power, armor, plus some value based on their blocking, range, and minus some value for their recharge time, and maybe for the kind of attack (since enchantresses and frosties have no power, for example, and a dragonspeaker mage should cost more than a regular pyromancer, but they normally have the same stats, etc)... seriously, all of these factors come into it.
Not that I have a good system to suggest right now... just that it needs to be more than just HP- a lot more...

[kensai]

One more voice to the chorus singing praise for a point-buy army. Perhaps the points could be rigged so that Golds truly are only more versatile than Greys, rather than way more powerful. In a bout, the better player should imo usually win - even if playing Grey vs. Gold.

HPs are an elegant solution, but they don't really tell the whole truth about the strengths of the units, as was already said.. "just like all units are equal except the dragon which is the equal of two units" is an over-simplification.

I also like the idea of costs per unit going up if you bring additional units of the same kind on the field.

Finally.. the total point value of an army could perhaps be a factor in deciding ratings changes. That way, a rank 1300 player could still gain ratings when fighting less skillful opponents by putting less hardware on the field.

[Office_Shredder]

I'm confused man... why can't we just leave it with the good old "you can have x units on the field" system???

The way it's looking right now with all this knights count for nearly twice as much as witches and crap is just asking for a saturated mage bomb field. All the units are equal, no need to complain.

[Shattered Rose]

I'm not suggesting knights be that costly- in fact, they should prolly be cheaper than most units (or at least, not nearly so much more expensive) simply because they're pretty flat, basic units.

I think it would add a lot of flexibility to the game, and definitely like the affect on ratings idea... start with fewer point-units: you can gain more from a win, drop less from a loss... start with more, and your chance to rise in the rankings lessens...

that would take a lot of the stress rising in the ranks off of who's had the better drops and who has more talent.