The Real Turtle Guide, Created by it's Creator...

[Moose]

Ok people have been asking me to post under Monkus's thing on turtling, and let me just say this, I will not put advice on his that in some ways doesn't even describe what a turtle is...so here it was I created when designing the turtle as a form.


Now, here's what a turtle really is:

A turtle is a defensive formation comprised of LOS units in a dffensive star posture, surrounded by heavier/well armed units as the main stay of the attack force. The formation can be used as either a lure or offensive/defensive attack form depending on which units are being used. Technically the first turtle did not use a stone golem since it was not invented, however due to the newer releases of these golems, it has since been modified to a newer more defensive strategy based style.


Variables: Turtles usually comprise of no offensive spell-castors such as dsm's, dmw, pyro's however it can be changed to except these units depending on how they are used, mostly, this form would be a more aggressive turtle then defensive.



How it was developed:


The turtle originally began on legends with the somewhat advancing players in the first month devising more then just "basic" forms with no general strategy. The turtle developed by Moose and followed up by Cyrus Bloodbane and TheRapizt became the first basic general defensive strategy that began employing more of a "seductive" way of trapping units and making them vunerable to attack, ultimately with the stone golems arrival, such units like the b-ward were still effective but not generally as used before, and the turtle became the pinicle form of use until many months later when the first rushes arrived.

Turtle Formations:

The first forms concentrated on units being put closely together with the cleric to protect the units from harm, knights and the l-ward were put out further to prevent witches and scout attacks from these versitile units. It wasn't until the stone golem, that the turtle began using new strategies, and at the same time, killing the true tactics of keeping units out of harm and inflicting the most damage to the opposition.

The first evolution of the turtle came with using "heavy hitters" such as knights and either 1 scout or 1 dragon as the powered up units, as well as a l-ward, b-ward and paralyzing units are the defensive for the turtle. this in itself became a very powerful attack force that could eaisly walk into another oppenents base and dismantle the defenses very quickly. However due to the lack of more un-experienced players which demanded change to this unfair advantage, the mud golem was given the special "quake ability" which was able to shake the field within the space of a l-wards attack range, this led to the mud golem being the mainstay of a turtle formation and replacing the enchantress and b-ward defense for the stone golem.

After this, usually a mud, dragon and 2 scouts were used as the power up units for the stone golem and became a common appearence for challengers.

However the stone golem wasn't truely utilized on FPS until Legends players began showing how useful the stone could really be, and how to position properly, mostly people were just using it as a avator or in a different way.

For the past year the turtle had stayed constant with very little alteration to it. Of course the rush formation now put serious pressure on the turtling forms and now they seemed more eaisly deconstructed by these aggressive formations. This led to the furgon being used more as a defensive tool to stop attacks from rushing units like the dsm's and beast riders, and even with the upper hand, a smart turtler could now eaisly protect his units more able and stop the opposing rushers from invading the terroritory.


More to come within the next week on the origins of the turtle...as well as strategies and tactics required for it...

[da1n]

More to come within the next week on the origins of the turtle...as well as strategies and tactics required for it...

I'm looking forward to the next issue of Turtle Weekly :cool:

[Moose]

I'm looking forward to the next issue of Turtle Weekly :cool:


lol, well as u know da1n, the turtle is a tribute to tao, it is more then just that half page of scraps monkus wrote


Moosey

[CRX687]

leaves lots of leewy for interpretation on wut a turtle is, i like it :)

[OmegaShin]

Good job Moose, let's make something serious.

Monkus: I'm sorry of my rudeness in ur topic, but turtle is something older than u, and i simply went mad reading ur post. I am sure ur intentions were good and u tried to do something useful for the community, but a turtle is something too much big to define. Your error was pretending to give a final definition and a so accurate units and form restriction.

As me and Moose stated, turtle doesn't have restrictions. For instance, you can't say "3 pyros are not turtle". That's just very unaccurate and wrong since they will make a side rush if placed on front line, but they will be a legal turtle if placed in the stone area and used as stoned units.

Moose did a very good job on turtle history and i am sure he won't try to make crazy restrictions. Because, what u didn't get is that "Turtle" as all tao strategies are "forms depending on units positions" not forms depending on units restrictions. Also, just think of how noobish restricting units can be. Is like denying a big number of strategies to a form's user making the game more poor and ending in forgetting how to use some units. The GA case is already something different cause he brings a lot of new things to a turtle, but still i will consider a turtle form with a front ga still a turtle. A very nice fight on opposite sides, quiet rushy on same sides, but that still brings new attack defense strategies on turtles (yes, even defense, an ambusher in a furgon turtle can be anoying).

On a side note to unit restrictions, you can now notice how foolish is defining a turtle a "form with stone". First turtlers didn't even use a stone, and all grey turtles on legends (fearsom forms since on leg greys can have frosts and furgons!) are turtles.


I'm looking forward to read Moose's next post.

[nads]

Defining a turtle for this generation of players is like defining a slide rule for generation X. It was before their time, as long as it's faster, it must therefore be better, even if it requires much less thought and involvement.

[Warcow]

Were you the first to use a turtle on FPS moose?

Oh thats right, you wern't.

No one created the turtle, go home.

[Wayfaerer]

Sounds like the anti-legends is losing his temper :cool:

[Godmic18]

Seriously though, those Legenders are such noobs! :eek: They think they invented the game for Christ's sake!!!

[Warcow]

Sounds like the anti-legends is losing his temper :cool:

I have nothing against legends at all.

I think one of the coolest people on TAO is from legends, that person being godmic.

I hate how moose claims he invented something that no one can claim they invented.

It is like the first person to have thumbs saying. "LOOK AT ME! I INVENTED THUMBS! THEY SHALL ONLY BE USED IN SAID MANNER!"

I don't think anyone should lay claim to any strategy, and I would be equally hard on Frylock if he kept repeatedly claiming he first created the rush.

[Wayfaerer]

I have nothing against legends at all.

Then do me a favour and stop using that lame "Go Home" line!

[monkus]

Fine, moose. I regret naming my post "The definition of a turtle". Instead, it should be "base rules for turtle games". Nowhere in your post do you actually tell us how to tell the difference between a turtle and a nonturtle, so despite the fact that you may DEFINE it better, you're still not accomplishing the goal I set out to accomplish, which is to keep turtle games rush-free.

Considering you didn't even know my objective, I find myself highly insulted by the fact that you completely disregard my entire post without even addressing the main points. So sure, you might know more about its origins, and the general definition, but you're still not regulating turtle games correctly! You guys care so much about defining turtles, but if you don't regulate turtle games, rushes will take over them, plus the freestyle game, and eventually you'll lose the turtle.

So go ahead. Define it however you want. But how do you expect your long long post to actually accomplish anything? I actually take a proactive step in creating understandable rules for turtle formations, so things like turtle leagues and turtle games can be rush free. Of course there are exceptions.

You can provide me with ANY definition, and I will either find a commonly accepted turtle that isn't included, or a blatant rush that is included. The implications of this fact is all you're going to do is try to define turtles, while never succeeding, while I'm going to keep rushes out of turtle games and help maintain the form that you're trying to define!

Instead of acting like a complete a-hole and totally rejecting everything I've said, why don't you tell me why ambushers ARE acceptable in turtle games? I've given you tons of reasons why they aren't, which have gone completely ignored! And to tell you the truth, I really don't give a crap about the origin of the turtle. Don't tell me that just b/c it's older than I am I don't know anything about it.

Plus, on the matter of stone golems, if you had been reading ANYTHING I said, I said I totally acknowledge that turtles don't need stone golems, but with that said, once you remove a stone golem, it's MUCH harder to draw a clear line. Thus, if I want to make understandable turtle regulations, a stone golem helps.

This form (http://img129.exs.cx/img129/1961/image114ub.jpg) is obvoiusly a turtle. This form (http://img129.exs.cx/img129/985/image126mu.jpg) is rather obviously a 1 sided turtle-busting rush. So how can you draw a clear line between the two?
(Yes, I now realize both have only 9 units, I made them hastily. That's not the point, don't bother pointing it out)

I agree with the change of my title. It is now more accurately "Turtle game Rules". But I suggest you name YOUR thread "History of a turtle", because you're not helping us understand what a turtle is at all. Let's pick apart YOUR definition:


A turtle is a defensive formation comprised of LOS units in a dffensive star posture, surrounded by heavier/well armed units as the main stay of the attack force. The formation can be used as either a lure or offensive/defensive attack form depending on which units are being used. Technically the first turtle did not use a stone golem since it was not invented, however due to the newer releases of these golems, it has since been modified to a newer more defensive strategy based style.

Variables: Turtles usually comprise of no offensive spell-castors such as dsm's, dmw, pyro's however it can be changed to except these units depending on how they are used, mostly, this form would be a more aggressive turtle then defensive.

You call it defensive, then go on to say it can be either, and some are often aggressive. A complete contradiction. The LOS units need not be in a defensive star position either. Look back to this form (http://img129.exs.cx/img129/1961/image114ub.jpg). The LOS units aren't in a star position. Plus, there's no way you can say this form (http://img11.exs.cx/img11/4250/image133ey.jpg) isn't a turtle.

You say almost no definite things anyway. They usually don't use spellcasters, but they can. They're defensive, but can be offensive. Can be used as a lure, can be aggressive. Plus, you say stone golem makes it defensive. Ever played rantzu? He stones, then rushes the heck out of other turtles.

Sure, your history lesson was kinda funny, but how are you making a GUIDE?

[Moose]

What I don't need is a "defintion" of what the turtle is, I made it, plain and simple, you can choose to believe that or not, for all I care, you can imagine me as a overweight computer nerd and it still wouldn't do much. i made the form the turtle, plain and simple, I posted it on the old tao forums and gave it a name plus a basis to it.


As for the units being in a star formation....well of course they are

Stone
Scout Dragon Scout
Mud

The star formation...

and of course i'm going to be aggressive when someone tries to make up a defintion which only it's creator can give, but you know what, if you want to make a guide fine, you said you would change it, then do it.


As for Warcow, I really don't give a shit what you think, legends came up with alot of things that FPS now has, maybe ur right, it was an overstatement to say that I was the first to use a turtle on FPS, but let me rephrase that, I played over 70 golds within a week in middle decemeber and saw none using a stone turtle form, so really but again ur right, I jumped way to fast to a conclusion, i guess my concentration was to far ahead in my description i'm typing up on a document, thankas for the correction.


and as I said more to come, obviously you can't read monkus.

Moosey

[CRX687]

Fine, moose. I regret naming my post "The definition of a turtle". Instead, it should be "base rules for turtle games". Nowhere in your post do you actually tell us how to tell the difference between a turtle and a nonturtle, so despite the fact that you may DEFINE it better, you're still not accomplishing the goal I set out to accomplish, which is to keep turtle games rush-free.

Instead of acting like a complete a-hole and totally rejecting everything I've said, why don't you tell me why ambushers ARE acceptable in turtle games? I've given you tons of reasons why they aren't, which have gone completely ignored! And to tell you the truth, I really don't give a crap about the origin of the turtle. Don't tell me that just b/c it's older than I am I don't know anything about it.

I agree with the change of my title. It is now more accurately "Turtle game Rules". But I suggest you name YOUR thread "History of a turtle", because you're not helping us understand what a turtle is at all. Let's pick apart YOUR definition:

You call it defensive, then go on to say it can be either, and some are often aggressive. A complete contradiction. The LOS units need not be in a defensive star position either. Look back to this form (http://img129.exs.cx/img129/1961/image114ub.jpg). The LOS units aren't in a star position. Plus, there's no way you can say this form (http://img11.exs.cx/img11/4250/image133ey.jpg) isn't a turtle.

Sure, your history lesson was kinda funny, but how are you making a GUIDE?

first thing, ur thread does not list the "rules" of a turtle game, it lists YOUR opinion of what the rules should me.

bushies are perfectly acceptable because they are available, pure and simple. TAO is about change... note a number of other turtlers are NOT complaining about the ambusher, why? because they have gotten over it and learned to use it to their advantage. YOUR turtle has a weakness to them, instead of adjusting it to make it better, you are attempting to remove it so you don't have to face it at all.

also, moose has admitted that the definition of a turtle is unclear, what he states are mearly things that USUALLY are found in turtles, this leaves room for interpretation, making it valid and not just his opinion.

[Warcow]

What I don't need is a "defintion" of what the turtle is, I made it, plain and simple, you can choose to believe that or not, for all I care, you can imagine me as a overweight computer nerd and it still wouldn't do much. i made the form the turtle, plain and simple, I posted it on the old tao forums and gave it a name plus a basis to it.


As for the units being in a star formation....well of course they are

Stone
Scout Dragon Scout
Mud

The star formation...

and of course i'm going to be aggressive when someone tries to make up a defintion which only it's creator can give, but you know what, if you want to make a guide fine, you said you would change it, then do it.


As for Warcow, I really don't give a shit what you think, legends came up with alot of things that FPS now has, maybe ur right, it was an overstatement to say that I was the first to use a turtle on FPS, but let me rephrase that, I played over 70 golds within a week in middle decemeber and saw none using a stone turtle form, so really but again ur right, I jumped way to fast to a conclusion, i guess my concentration was to far ahead in my description i'm typing up on a document, thankas for the correction.


and as I said more to come, obviously you can't read monkus.

Moosey


So say you named the turtle, I don't think anyone can deny that.

You did NOT create the turtle, no one can claim the created the defensive form, people naturally turn to defense. Did you play every grey on legends, the day TAO came out, EVERY single one? can you be sure not a single person had his or her units crammed into a corner for a better defensive position? Where is your proof moose? Would the very first two people to play have invented the 10 unit form. Stop stroking your huge ego.

Wayf, alright, I will stop using that term, i'm sorry.

[OmegaShin]

Stop dissing each other you 2.

Moose was pissed because he turtled before you and he felt like left out when u did ur guide.

Monkus is pissed because Moose completely disrespected ur guide.

Again, as i stated on ur post too monkus, i say, it's hard to define a turtle.
You say u want to protect turtlers from rushes. I think the only true problem is distinguish a turtle from a side rush. But if you really want to do something useful, it's useless keeping dissing each other and give opinions.

This is not something anyone can do alone, if rules are needed than every player that feels like having something to say about anything he should post it, and after reading all the opinions a general line can be pointed out. Because i am sure everyone has something different and new to say about it, forms are personal and therefore turtle perceptions are different and very personal.

In my case, i accept anything, i don't care at all if my opponent wants me to play with these or those units. Until we both have access to same sources is ok, i just don't like restrictions cause i love creating many different forms.

For what concerns the stone, u said a non stone turt brings many problems in. True. But u can't just make non stone turtles rushes because of this.

It's not easy for me to tell what's a turtle in my opinion, also because of my poor english.
I'd say a turtle for me is a form with all units put toghether in some place (left corner center or right, doesn't matter) going from back row to front row, with the most of the units in the back rows, allowing only a certain amount of units in the first row. I wouldn't say "no more than 2 units in front" cause a lward+2 knights front line turt is still a turt, and that's 3 units in front, but a dsm+2 pyros up front is not a turt anymore. Mainly, i wouldn't allow more than one ranged unit in front line. That would allow front dsm (that sucks though and i gave big proof of that playing vias/pepe many times, but a lot of people fear it) or front GA or front scout and so on. I could do a more accurate definition, but i don't really think it's needed....

Anyway guys, just stop getting pissed off or trying to strenghten ur point of views with violence. They are just point of views. In my opinion, we all already know what a turtle is... Problems are only brought in by GA, wisp, dsm (i played a lot of turt games and still didn't see any guy playing me with a rush like the monkus 9 units example of last post and pretending it is a turtle. Units are spread out, too much attack power on front line and in the overall it's clearly not a turt) and the best way to avoid that is just asking for turtle old style game or for turtle games.

now stop talking trash and have a beer ;)

[Cuathon]

my belief is that we can only decide if a form is a turtle on a case by case basis.

however we could take steps to regulate turtle games. i saw some people saying that monkus' posts are rules for a monkus turtle. that is true. perhaps instead of defining turtles as a whole we can define subgroups.

instead of saying turtle you could say "Can we play a monkus turtle game?"
or "Will you agree to use a bottle turtle?"

each group could have a specific set of rules.
for people like omegashin you could ask for a "freestyle turtle game." any units would be allowed including upfront GA's as long as the turtle was in one section: left side, right side, middle.

[CRX687]

however we could take steps to regulate turtle games. i saw some people saying that monkus' posts are rules for a monkus turtle. that is true. perhaps instead of defining turtles as a whole we can define subgroups.

instead of saying turtle you could say "Can we play a monkus turtle game?"
or "Will you agree to use a bottle turtle?"
.

that's wut we've been trying to tell monkus this whole time, he keeps insisting those ARE the set RULES of a turtle game.

[Moose]

So say you named the turtle, I don't think anyone can deny that.

You did NOT create the turtle, no one can claim the created the defensive form, people naturally turn to defense. Did you play every grey on legends, the day TAO came out, EVERY single one? can you be sure not a single person had his or her units crammed into a corner for a better defensive position? Where is your proof moose? Would the very first two people to play have invented the 10 unit form. Stop stroking your huge ego.

Wayf, alright, I will stop using that term, i'm sorry.


The Day TAO came out there were 13 people online (including in games) I played each and every one of them. All were using straight forward or the default setting, straight forward meaning that they were mostly in the middle, I however started using a turtle form to one side and over the next 2 weeks saw no one else using it, I posted it under the old tao forums and gave it a name and strategy.


Anyways n00b, I don't really need to show proof to those younger in TAO then me, I know what I know, and your opinion doesn't really change my stance on anything at all :)


Moosey

[OmegaShin]

Originally Posted by Cuathon
however we could take steps to regulate turtle games. i saw some people saying that monkus' posts are rules for a monkus turtle. that is true. perhaps instead of defining turtles as a whole we can define subgroups.

instead of saying turtle you could say "Can we play a monkus turtle game?"
or "Will you agree to use a bottle turtle?"


Word

[Warcow]

The Day TAO came out there were 13 people online (including in games) I played each and every one of them. All were using straight forward or the default setting, straight forward meaning that they were mostly in the middle, I however started using a turtle form to one side and over the next 2 weeks saw no one else using it, I posted it under the old tao forums and gave it a name and strategy.


Anyways n00b, I don't really need to show proof to those younger in TAO then me, I know what I know, and your opinion doesn't really change my stance on anything at all :)


Moosey

Were you on minute one? I highly doubt that, and either way, you still didn't invent it. You can call me a noob, but the last time we played turtles, I bashed you, and your excuse was, I wasn't playing seriously. Just because you didn't specifically see anyone using a stacked form, doesn't mean it didn't happen. You said you came over to FPS when the stone golem came out and there was no one using it? Did you play me? Did you play LJ? we all used it the very first day it came out.

Maybe say you were the first to use a turtle, though even that I highly doubt, but you certainly didn't invent it. Did the first man to drop his trousers and take a leak invent pissing? No, he may have been the first one to make his water, but he sure as hell didn't invent it. The only person that can actually claim they invented turtling, was Seed, because he created the units, he created the board, and he created the system, therefore he was THE creator, don't even bother claiming otherwise. When something is that natural, like taking to defense, by clumping your units, you can't claim you invented it.

[Cuathon]

i know crx. but you werent giving a proactive answer. thats what my suggestion was. a way to allow turtlers to get the kind of turtle game they enjoy.

also after thinking it over im inclined to believe that moose could have brought the turtle to FPS.

heres how: a player that plays at FPS has an account on legends. they play moose's turtle. they get their ass beat. they learn to play it and take their new skills to FPS

[Warcow]

i know crx. but you werent giving a proactive answer. thats what my suggestion was. a way to allow turtlers to get the kind of turtle game they enjoy.

also after thinking it over im inclined to believe that moose could have brought the turtle to FPS.

heres how: a player that plays at FPS has an account on legends. they play moose's turtle. they get their ass beat. they learn to play it and take their new skills to FPS

My second game I made my form into a turtle, without ever seeing anyone do so. Whoever it was that I played first was able to get through to my cleric by punching through one side, I adapted.

I don't even try to claim to be close to the first to use it, but It is completely illogical to think that no one else on GL was able to "create" a turtle, without it coming from some over inflated gold on a server 99.9% of people had never even heard of.

[monkus]

first thing, ur thread does not list the "rules" of a turtle game, it lists YOUR opinion of what the rules should me.

bushies are perfectly acceptable because they are available, pure and simple. TAO is about change... note a number of other turtlers are NOT complaining about the ambusher, why? because they have gotten over it and learned to use it to their advantage. YOUR turtle has a weakness to them, instead of adjusting it to make it better, you are attempting to remove it so you don't have to face it at all.

also, moose has admitted that the definition of a turtle is unclear, what he states are mearly things that USUALLY are found in turtles, this leaves room for interpretation, making it valid and not just his opinion.


If there is no actual guide for the rules of a turtle game, then obvoiusly anything I say will be my opinion.
You say bushers are perfectly acceptable because they are available. Does that mean that I can run a spread rush in a turtle game, because the formation is available?

Crx, over half of the turtlers I know are complaining about the ambusher. None of them want it in the turtle game. A few turtlers are fine with it because they want to use it too, and one turtler I know is fine with it because he's convinced he can beat anyone, with or without the ambusher (cough cough wayfaerer).
The point is though, turtle games with ambushers are unbalanced for the offense. I've said this many times. A defensive player simply can't compensate, and considering many turtlers are defensive, it makes it unbalanced. Go ahead. Call me self-centered, arrogant, egotistical, tell me I avoid my own problems. But do you honestly think personal attacks are getting you anywhere?

Moose's definition is unclear. It's open to interpretation. That's BETTER? If i'm trying to make clear rules for turtle games so people don't abuse them, how the heck are abstract rules going to get us ANYWHERE?

[FryLock]

I I would be equally hard on Frylock if he kept repeatedly claiming he first created the rush.

I created the rush!! :eek:

After stealing the idea from Office_Shredder. Who got it from some guy on the street corner. Who made it up the day FPS began hosting TAO. Or so the legend goes.

I'm with Warcow all the way on this one. Quit stroking your ego, Moose. What exactly would make you happy? For everyone else to realize that you are the TAO god and that nothing we say or do can ever come close to your majestic style of play?

Please.

Having said that, I do respect your interpretation of a turtle. Had you simply presented that, without all this extra self-promoting bluster, I would have considered it a thoughtful and intelligent post.

But that has been sullied by your constant attempts to assert dominance over everyone around you.

One last question - are you saying that the first 13 players or so of TAO all used the default formation, while you were the ONLY one to figure out how to use the setup screen and change out your units for other ones? And that this went on for several weeks? :rolleyes:

[Warcow]

I created the rush!! :eek:

After stealing the idea from Office_Shredder. Who got it from some guy on the street corner. Who made it up the day FPS began hosting TAO. Or so the legend goes.

I'm with Warcow all the way on this one. Quit stroking your ego, Moose. What exactly would make you happy? For everyone else to realize that you are the TAO god and that nothing we say or do can ever come close to your majestic style of play?

Please.

Having said that, I do respect your interpretation of a turtle. Had you simply presented that, without all this extra self-promoting bluster, I would have considered it a thoughtful and intelligent post.

But that has been sullied by your constant attempts to assert dominance over everyone around you.

One last question - are you saying that the first 13 players or so of TAO all used the default formation, while you were the ONLY one to figure out how to use the setup screen and change out your units for other ones? And that this went on for several weeks? :rolleyes:

I do agree your form was the model for a whole era of rushes, however to be the first or creater of the rush overall, sorry bro, but no. Everyone did copy your form nearly to the unit though. with the frost infront of the cleric and whatnot.

[FryLock]

Warcow, I was kidding!

Yeesh. I ain't no Moose.

Of course I didn't create the thing. It evolved on its own. OS's original ideas didn't involve a frosty or anything. I only put one in messing around and found that it worked. But I do NOT claim to have invented the thing. I certainly sped it on its way (along with gigantic contributions from search66 and Office who was the one who originally got me thinking about rushes) but no one person created it.

Just like the turtle...

[Warcow]

Warcow, I was kidding!

Yeesh. I ain't no Moose.

I know! I was just trying to show I am not biased against legenders! Just ego maniacs like moose!

[CRX687]

If there is no actual guide for the rules of a turtle game, then obvoiusly anything I say will be my opinion.
You say bushers are perfectly acceptable because they are available. Does that mean that I can run a spread rush in a turtle game, because the formation is available?

Crx, over half of the turtlers I know are complaining about the ambusher. None of them want it in the turtle game. A few turtlers are fine with it because they want to use it too, and one turtler I know is fine with it because he's convinced he can beat anyone, with or without the ambusher (cough cough wayfaerer).
The point is though, turtle games with ambushers are unbalanced for the offense. I've said this many times. A defensive player simply can't compensate, and considering many turtlers are defensive, it makes it unbalanced. Go ahead. Call me self-centered, arrogant, egotistical, tell me I avoid my own problems. But do you honestly think personal attacks are getting you anywhere?

Moose's definition is unclear. It's open to interpretation. That's BETTER? If i'm trying to make clear rules for turtle games so people don't abuse them, how the heck are abstract rules going to get us ANYWHERE?

correction, over half the turtlers complainED about the bushy... they got over that weakness and learned to play WITH it... wolfy and omega are prime example... others, like wuffy, learned to handle it. YOU come here making a "definition" for a form you know can't be perfectly defined calling the bushy illegal, citing reasons from YOUR experience while calling ur definition the "final" one, ignoring ppl as they tell you it's YOUR explanation for a turtle, not rules or a definition... instead of working over ur weakness, ur telling everyone else not to capitalize on it.

and moosey's definition is better BECAUSE it is open to interpretation.

and spread rush is not a turtle, we all know that. If someone uses a spread rush in a turtle game against you, THEN You have reason to complain for THAT CASE ALONE.

also, you can't control what form people use, THAT is the reason tao is different from chess, if you enjoy games with no luck involved and all skill, i recommend a nice chess site for you. YOU are the one who wants everyone else to turtle, they don't have to listen to you, and are NOT breaking any actual rules no matter what they use, however morally wrong it may be.

[Cuathon]

My second game I made my form into a turtle, without ever seeing anyone do so. Whoever it was that I played first was able to get through to my cleric by punching through one side, I adapted.

I don't even try to claim to be close to the first to use it, but It is completely illogical to think that no one else on GL was able to "create" a turtle, without it coming from some over inflated gold on a server 99.9% of people had never even heard of.

i said that moose could have originated it. i really believe that plenty of people came up with it on their own

[Warcow]

correction, over half the turtlers complainED about the bushy... they got over that weakness and learned to play WITH it... wolfy and omega are prime example... others, like wuffy, learned to handle it. YOU come here making a "definition" for a form you know can't be perfectly defined calling the bushy illegal.

and moosey's definition is better BECAUSE it is open to interpretation.

and spread rush is not a turtle, we all know that. If someone uses a spread rush in a turtle game against you, THEN You have reason to complain for THAT CASE ALONE.

also, you can't control what form people use, THAT is the reason tao is different from chess, if you enjoy games with no luck involved and all skill, i recommend a nice chess site for you. YOU are the one who wants everyone else to turtle, they don't have to listen to you, and are NOT breaking any actual rules no matter what they use, however morally wrong it may be.

You are missing the entire point of the reason for a turtle match.

This is no insult, but follow this logic if you will.

Why do we play video games? Because we find them to be enjoyable.

Why do we play TAO? Because we find it more enjoyable than most

Why do we like turtles? Because it takes more thought than a rush, and it is the way we like to play, and the way we enjoy it.

Why would we agree to play something we hate? We wouldn't. When someone asks me for a game, I say turtle, they say no, I say no thanks. I am not going to spend my time doing something I hate, that is the idea around keeping a turtle to a specific set of rules.

Also, I'd say 50% of turtlers hating the ambusher, is a poor estimate, i'd guess 90% of the classic turtles despise it. Also, there is a difference between adapting to the ambusher, and simply using the same tactic back at people, which is realistically the only way to beat it. I don't ever remember wolfy using the ambusher upfront for a fast cleric kill, and I wouldn't be exactly pleased to see him do it either, and that would probably be the end of our pleasant games. Wayf says he can deal with it, but I'd put money on the fact that without using two frost golems, he can't stop me from killing his cleric if my ambusher ends up lined up with his cleric.

[CRX687]

You are missing the entire point of the reason for a turtle match.

This is no insult, but follow this logic if you will.

Why do we play video games? Because we find them to be enjoyable.

Why do we play TAO? Because we find it more enjoyable than most

Why do we like turtles? Because it takes more thought than a rush, and it is the way we like to play, and the way we enjoy it.

Why would we agree to play something we hate? We wouldn't. When someone asks me for a game, I say turtle, they say no, I say no thanks. I am not going to spend my time doing something I hate, that is the idea around keeping a turtle to a specific set of rules.

Also, I'd say 50% of turtlers hating the ambusher, is a poor estimate, i'd guess 90% of the classic turtles despise it. Also, there is a difference between adapting to the ambusher, and simply using the same tactic back at people, which is realistically the only way to beat it. I don't ever remember wolfy using the ambusher upfront for a fast cleric kill, and I wouldn't be exactly pleased to see him do it either, and that would probably be the end of our pleasant games. Wayf says he can deal with it, but I'd put money on the fact that without using two frost golems, he can't stop me from killing his cleric if my ambusher ends up lined up with his cleric.

wolfy never put it in front for cleric kill, he put one in the back and pwned with it.

also, that comment was directed at monkus, who refuses to acknowledge that the list of aspects of a turtle game he posted are NOT rules to turtling, merely guidelines/his opinion.

and yes, i know you play turtle games because you enjoy it and THINK(but that's a different argument... go to the first "def of a turtle" thread to see the thing :p ) it takes more thought than a rush. But monkus is generalizing about a form that has existed since the beginning and ruling out a large number of turtles.

Again, i say no one is criticizing why you play turtle games or whether or not the things monkus posted are legitimate aspects of turtling, but they do not form the actual definition and are not rules, merely his interpretation of what turtling is... that is my point.

also, if you only enjoy turtle games, fine, only play other turtlers then... you don't do this, but people like monkus and lord eric go around finding freestylists and telling them that they suck unless they turtle. <-- what i have a problem with

[Wayfaerer]

Wolfy used it frontline vs. me twice!

Also I would never use 2 frosts. Not here at least, even if it was before the ambusher

[Moose]

You know what, I know what I know, and I trust myself more then anyone else about what is what, and you know what, now that I look at things, i'm starting to see that maybe I am acting childish, afterall TAO is just a silly game and I guess I did over-react, so ur right, who cares who invented it, all I know is that I was the first to post and comment on it, maybe that isn't enough to say I made it, fine, whatever, i'm tired of arguing, i';m tired of people like you fry not understanding that i'm not trying to make myself have a huge ego, because obviously you always missunderstand what i'm saying, and as for u warcow, i've never even talked to you before, so why the hell should either of us judge who did what, So fine, whatever, let ur interuptations of what i'm saying re-spawn in ur heads to twist to what you think is arrogance and ego, because i'm tired of trying to prove something and i'm tired of having to explain myself for everything I say.


Whats sad about all this is that I just haven't been able to stop to some annoymous users on the net, honestly, i don't know who u are fry, so why bother arguing with some person i've never met and never knew, it makes no sense.

Moosey

[sub the hendrix]

Is that an apology Moose? I know my opinion is humble, beacuse I am still findidng my way around as a grey, but I dont see why we cant simply take all the discussion to Monkus's thread, it is stickied, and then your arguement will always be there. I think the best use of Monk's thread would be as the place to put all of the discussion on turtles, where it is easily found.

On a different note, of course this is just a game, but it is a game that many people happen to enjoy.

[Cuathon]

well i have to agree that if someone came to me asked for a turtle and told me i suck because i refused then d tell them to STFU. If Monkus does this thanhe needs to stop. However im sure there are at least a few rushers whjo do the same thing to Monkus.

[monkus]

and spread rush is not a turtle, we all know that. If someone uses a spread rush in a turtle game against you, THEN You have reason to complain for THAT CASE ALONE.

Why? Why is a spread rush not a turtle? Is a one sided rush a turtle? If I play against someone in a turtle game, when do i get to complain, and when can't i? If his definition is so abstract, why can't it be interpreted to include spread rushes? Or one-sided rushes?

[da1n]

It is like the first person to have thumbs saying. "LOOK AT ME! I INVENTED THUMBS!

But who first called it a thumb? The said person would have the right to explain the naming ;) :cool:

[Warcow]

But who first called it a thumb? The said person would have the right to explain the naming ;) :cool:

No, the fact that the person was the first to point and say "ugh" doesn't really give that person the right to define it. If the other people around him caught on said said ugh as well, props to the ugher, but that doesn't mean he has the right to say, it isn't an org, it's an ugh.

[Kyir]

*cough*powerturtle*cough*

[da1n]

No, the fact that the person was the first to point and say "ugh" doesn't really give that person the right to define it. If the other people around him caught on said said ugh as well, props to the ugher, but that doesn't mean he has the right to say, it isn't an org, it's an ugh.

So, tie that into this thread. Assuming you don't have the ability to delve into Moose's mind and know exactly what he was thinking when he called his form a 'turtle', on what basis do you decide what is a turtle is?

[FryLock]

I...make...no sense.


With a little judicious editing, we see what Moose has been trying to say all along!

I know, it's a cheap joke. But so what? :)

[CRX687]

well i have to agree that if someone came to me asked for a turtle and told me i suck because i refused then d tell them to STFU. If Monkus does this thanhe needs to stop. However im sure there are at least a few rushers whjo do the same thing to Monkus.

That comment wasn't directly completely at monk...

but there are a LOT of gl "turtlers" that do this, it's sickening.

Warcow's reason for turtling and not accepting rush games is perfectly respectable and reasonable for me. However, there are some ppl that take advantage of this explanation, saying they refuse my challenges because they only only enjoy turtling, while agreeing to freestyle with less skilled players :mad:

I also have a problem when people tell me that turtling is the only true test of skill on TAO, and that they are looking for a luckless, advantageless game... because there are better online games for that. And those people are completely ignoring one of the major components of TAO skill- form building.


Why? Why is a spread rush not a turtle? Is a one sided rush a turtle? If I play against someone in a turtle game, when do i get to complain, and when can't i? If his definition is so abstract, why can't it be interpreted to include spread rushes? Or one-sided rushes?

on one crosses the line that extremely... if someone does, we examine it as an individual case.

[Warcow]

So, tie that into this thread. Assuming you don't have the ability to delve into Moose's mind and know exactly what he was thinking when he called his form a 'turtle', on what basis do you decide what is a turtle is?

I don't. I am not trying to set the rules solo. What monkus has done, was asked people for their interpretations, and given his findings based on a majority Moose is trying to pull a veto, which I think is pure bull. I think it should be a group decision, and it should be decided on. The fact that Moose blatently insulted monkus by pretty much disregarding his attempt at a definition completely, and stepped in as if he were the ultimate authority, just gets my engine revving.

[zzzaacckk]

Well done Moose. a good insight into the history of the turtle. Im waiting for the next instalment.

[CRX687]

Well done Moose. a good insight into the history of the turtle. Im waiting for the next instalment.

rofl, way to bring this thread back on topic... you get a rep for this.

[da1n]

While the rep is being dealt out, i guess ill give some to crx for the heck of it :cool:

[Cuathon]

notice he said the "history" of the turtle. he didnt necessarily agree with any other part.

[_Sh3LL_]

Ok Moose, you are telling me you were the first player of all time to *INVENT* the turtle.

This sounds kind of funny, like saying One person invented the rush. You might be the first to name the turtle, which I also seriously doubt. Can you tell me that no player of tao history, used or invented the turtle before the time of its so called creation???? You might have been the first to name it, but after that you assume that its creation is because of you. Which is total bull shit. Stop trying to draw attention to yourself, it Isnt working. And stop assuming you created something, when you can not prove it.

[Jeffery]

Actually, i can tell you the history of the rush on these servers........

Office_Shredder and Frylock the biggots started it.

[FryLock]

The tricky part is figuring out when the bomb mutated into the rush...because folks like pyro_guy4 and the original Twelve were some of the first to adapt a "modern" mage bomb that later formed the jumping-off point of the rush.

[CRX687]

The tricky part is figuring out when the bomb mutated into the rush...because folks like pyro_guy4 and the original Twelve were some of the first to adapt a "modern" mage bomb that later formed the jumping-off point of the rush.

so sir twelve and pyro_guy were the inventors of bomb AND rush, not you :p

[monkus]

And seed invented the spread when he developed the game, which slowly shifted into the turtle. So he invented the turtle. Then, people started getting more aggressive with their forms until they started using rushes. So seed invented those too.

[Liquid Swordsman]

Ok Moose, you are telling me you were the first player of all time to *INVENT* the turtle.

This sounds kind of funny, like saying One person invented the rush. You might be the first to name the turtle, which I also seriously doubt. Can you tell me that no player of tao history, used or invented the turtle before the time of its so called creation???? You might have been the first to name it, but after that you assume that its creation is because of you. Which is total bull shit. Stop trying to draw attention to yourself, it Isnt working. And stop assuming you created something, when you can not prove it.


Why butt your nose into something you know nothing about?

Moose was one of the first 13 people to join TAO.

He infact, did name the turtle.

And as far as I can see it, he did create the basis for it too.

[CRX687]

seed designed the units, he put them in a way similar to how chess is set up...


moosey was indeed one of THE very first on tao... literally. I'm not surprised if he was in fact the first one to use the turtle... and since he was #1 to using it AND the one to coin the term "turtle", he gets credit for it...

this principle works for lots of inventions... it's natural that someone else would've made a phone after Bell, but he was the first name it and make one, so he gets credit for inventing it.

[OmegaShin]

I agree with monkus on this.

I don't think seed planned every possible usage of the units he made, but everyone with the units provided has the potential to create himself any possible form.

It's not a matter of who created what, all this mess started from the fact that monkus tried to give rules for turtle games.

This is wrong in my opinion since there will always be people disagreeing on part of the rules. Turtle form is too much old to be restricted and controlled, there's too many players using it that will be just pissed off in seeing the game's units diing to restrictions. We play this game to make full use of what seed created for us. If anyone wants to give rules to anything this will be something personal and as cuathon said, u can ask to have a bottle or monkus turtle game, but u can't pretend to ask for a turtle game and than go mad at someone because he didn't use the units u think he must use.

There is no solution to this, we are just arguing a lot and solving nothing. For what concerns me, i really don't care of the units they want me to use or not. I just divide turtle games in old style turtles and full turtles. Also, if i want to be 100% sure that the game will not end in rushing each other i ask for opposite turtle, and that's the play style i like the most.

We don't need rules. 50% people playing on tao don't even bother reading the forums, and some of those who do probably won't stop in general discussion and won't see all these threads. Also, it's pure violence forcing anyone in accepting a definition of turtle that can be good, wonderful, awesome, but will never be perfect cause this is not chess and you can't predict every possible form that can be done with a number of units. And this, my friends, is the beauty of this game.

We all know what a turtle is. We all know people not liking ambusher ask for no GA turtle games. We can all recognize a turtle from a side rush, especially once we ask for no GA. Your attempt was valuable monkus, but i don't see any need for it. The only situation where you fps guys will need to determine such a thing is in a turtle tournament. In that case, people organizing it will just post HIS turtle rules that will have to be accepted by any people desiring to join the competition.

Until than, it's just turtle and no ga turtle, or old style turtle if u don't want wisps too. Stop acting big you all, dissing each other for childish arguments and big egos.
Go have a turtle game!

[CRX687]

Until than, it's just turtle and no ga turtle, or old style turtle if u don't want wisps too. Stop acting big you all, dissing each other for childish arguments and big egos.
Go have a turtle game!

but where would all the fun be without the arguments and drama? :D

i mean, the game itself is good, but without constant updates, it gets boring/repititive after a while :p

[Moose]

but where would all the fun be without the arguments and drama? :D

i mean, the game itself is good, but without constant updates, it gets boring/repititive after a while :p


games don't need drama they just need to be played


Moosey

[CRX687]

games don't need drama they just need to be played


Moosey

oh c'mon... if you just look at the gaming perspective, it's just another boring game... the main reason most of us play tao nowadays is the community... TAO isnt just a turn based game with a chatroom anymore, it's a community with friendships and enemies,that's what makes it fun, it's like a fanfic/rpg and a turn based game rolled in one.

If it wasn't for a drama, i would've quit a LONG time ago...

[_Sh3LL_]

Exactly CRX. There will always be the Netjak haters, the Bushido Gaiden haters. There will always be those who dispise rushing in every way, and those who feel the same about turtle.

Yet that is what gives feel to the community. What strives it. Without the different opinions of other players, TAO would become such a bore. Though the anti rushers despise the rushers, they are yet a little grateful for their prescence. With it, it brings a little more interest and involvement in tao. Putting in effort to harp on the rushers, netjaks, bgers, etc give some tao members a reason to play tao, and therefore stay with it.

Drama is a burden??? I say it is something that held the tao community together for the past year and a half. That has kept the veterans we have left to keep playing tao. To make the game a little more exciting by bringing about wars, tourneys, and other games of power.

Drama has brought forth the best memories of tao.

[Amaroth]

You didn't create Turtles. You contributed to the development of what eventually evolved into a defensive form, which over time, definitively became a turtle.

Posting your rules here is meaningless, Moose. Legends' turtles are different from here. What we think a turtle is, you think it's something else. If I were to go to England and ask the locals if they want to play football, I'd get a soccer game. If I were to go to Legends and ask for a turtle game, I'd get something I'm not acustomed to.

Think before you post.

[ck1]

Defining a turtle for this generation of players is like defining a slide rule for generation X. It was before their time, as long as it's faster, it must therefore be better, even if it requires much less thought and involvement.


Generation X?

Does that make us Generation W? :)

[Cuathon]

Y?

[FryLock]

XYZ?

*looks down at pants*

Damn. I knew it felt drafty in here.

[Wolfman]

XYZ?

*looks down at pants*

Damn. I knew it felt drafty in here.

lol.... me too...hehehe

dam.. just been away for a few days.... this "turtle guides/rules" becomes hot topic... interesting....

also.... saw my name mentioned in some of you guys' post... wow... i am glad u guys still remember me :P

btw.... i like tur n hv a lot of test turs.... ambusher is not my favorite unit.... although i do use it for some of my test tur.... but this i promise.... for a true old school tur battle.... i never "noob cannon".

well... keep debating.... n thx guys who mentioned my name ....

wolfy

[Ape King]

You didn't create Turtles. You contributed to the development of what eventually evolved into a defensive form, which over time, definitively became a turtle.

Posting your rules here is meaningless, Moose. Legends' turtles are different from here. What we think a turtle is, you think it's something else. If I were to go to England and ask the locals if they want to play football, I'd get a soccer game. If I were to go to Legends and ask for a turtle game, I'd get something I'm not acustomed to.

Think before you post.

Think before you post? Why the hell does everybody say that? o_0 What does he need to think about? Its his opinion, he can say whatever he wants. Another thing, Legends and FPS are not England and U.S. The only difference I noticed in a turtle game between the two servers is the extra Scout, I've seen players from both servers rush, defend, or even hybrid with a Turtle. It's a defensive looking formation, but you can still rush the hell outta your opponent depending on your strategy. There isnt much dissimilarities aside from the FPS turtles are harder to break due to the extra Scout.

[Amaroth]

Think before you post? Why the hell does everybody say that? o_0 What does he need to think about? Its his opinion, he can say whatever he wants. Another thing, Legends and FPS are not England and U.S. The only difference I noticed in a turtle game between the two servers is the extra Scout, I've seen players from both servers rush, defend, or even hybrid with a Turtle. It's a defensive looking formation, but you can still rush the hell outta your opponent depending on your strategy. There isnt much dissimilarities aside from the FPS turtles are harder to break due to the extra Scout.

The extra Scout, the dropped Beast Riders, Mud Golems, Frost Golems, Furgons, ect... We don't get any of those, and we will very rarely get a Beast Rider, Frosty, or Muddie drop on Rev. I only know two people who have won one. You guys have alot more unit variety than us.

And even without the extra units, they are different. You play different. Our Turtles are much more defensive against rushes, since the rushes here are alot more numerous and alot more aggressive. Your Turtles tend to be alot more laid back in rush defense, as it's not as much of a fad there as it is here. Most of the Turtlers left here only use four attacking units, I've seen alot more used in most of my experiences with Legernders turtling.

I could go on, but I'm in the midst of ordering pizza :cool:

[Ape King]

Extra units drops on Legends? What difference does that make? Both kind of Turtles, offensive and defensive, still falls under the same category. Instead of 2 completely different ones over the coincidence of sharing the same name(soccer and football). And btw, those extra units doesnt really serve that much of an advantage for golds now...Extra Scout- (If your lucky enough to have one) players only can have one on the field. Extra Mud- What good does that do to? Inorder to execute its special attack, you are required to have only one on the field. Extra BR- Nothing a skilled player cant handle. Only a few use it(while the true turtlers dont), 90% of those rushs. Extra Furgon-Same as the Scout, only one on the field. Extra Frost- Alright against grays, but 2 or more Frosts are only taking up space against the new focus breakers. Why the drops? All those units are added to the drops because Seed is generous, he wants peoples to enjoy his game because it was ment to be free, also, he doesnt want the golds on the server to have an overwhelming advantage over the grays, like it is in herr. You claim that Legends use more offensive turtles because it contains more than 4 attacking units? More than 4 attacking units, is not defensive?! o_0 Last time I checked I can use the extra attacking units play defensive against oncoming rushers. Besides, you probably didnt see the old schools in action, ever seen some of their old forms? (k..im not gonna include the forms with 2 Frost since you think its a big unfair advatage) Quicks-2 Scout, LW, Furgon, Dragon, Cleric, Stone, Mud, Frost...four attacking units. Slakziesig- 2 LW, 2 Scout, Mud, Dragon, Cleric, Stone, Frost...four attacking units. Moose- LW, 2 Assassins, 2 Scouts, 2 Clerics, Stone, Frost, BW...four attacking units. Me- LW, Cleric, Stone, Dragon, Frost, Furg, 2 Knights, Scout...four attacking units. Wayfear the slick t-shirt(none old school ;[)- LW, Frost, Furg, Knight, Mud, Scout, Cleric, Dragon, Stone...four attacking units. ;p

[OmegaShin]

There's so many people and so many good players on legends that it's no sense trying to generalize. You will find as many defense turtle users as much as many offense turtlers.

We have almost all forms, but the elite gold usually don't use drops in turtles. Legends' drops are meant to make it possible for any grey to beat any gold since legends is a free server.

Also, legends is full of rushers just as fps is. The game is much more balanced though since a double frost or just a frost wisp furgon turtle can normally beat a 1 scout rush. While on legends people like me and Wayf turtle as much as we like without needing to ask for turt games, on fps i would never turtle if my opponent doesn't agree on a turtle game.

[Moose]

Don't mind Vival there, he's just jealous he couldn't think of his own comments to post :P with his own opinions that are original


Moosey

[Bottle]

I haven't read through most of this thread. But here's the thing that leapt out at me as soon as I saw the title;

MOOSE, GET OVER YOURSELF.

No one invented the turtle, other than Seed when he released the Stone Golem.

[Wayfaerer]

The extra Scout, the dropped Beast Riders, Mud Golems, Frost Golems, Furgons, ect... We don't get any of those, and we will very rarely get a Beast Rider, Frosty, or Muddie drop on Rev. I only know two people who have won one. You guys have alot more unit variety than us.

And even without the extra units, they are different. You play different. Our Turtles are much more defensive against rushes, since the rushes here are alot more numerous and alot more aggressive. Your Turtles tend to be alot more laid back in rush defense, as it's not as much of a fad there as it is here. Most of the Turtlers left here only use four attacking units, I've seen alot more used in most of my experiences with Legernders turtling.

I'm guessing you've only played afew grey games on Legends and just heard other nubs banter about it. Which is why you don't know what you're talking about (and aparently you're retired, which really explains why you're so up to date).

Bottle, I just read a post saying you beat allstar with a no-stone turtle. What the nub are you talking about :cool:

South-side ape bretheren posse!

[Bottle]

Bottle, I just read a post saying you beat allstar with a no-stone turtle. What the nub are you talking about :cool:
That game was a freestyle match. My "turtle" was more like a defensive one-sided semi-rush formation. But I know what I'm talking about when it comes to turtle matches, having played several thousand of them.

[Jonspen]

I think one of the coolest people on TAO is from legends, that person being godmic.

DAMN!

Had my hopes up there for a second. ;) :D

[Amaroth]

Don't mind Vival there, he's just jealous he couldn't think of his own comments to post :P with his own opinions that are original


Moosey

I'm Achilles. Not Vival. If I was Vival, I would have no meaning behind what I'm saying. At least what I say makes sense.

[Jonspen]

I would have no meaning behind what I'm saying.

What's new?

But seriously, first off xyx is Jeff, now Achillies is Vival.... :rolleyes:

[Bottle]

What can you expect, they're from legends. They think they know everything, when in fact they know very little...

[Jonspen]

Now hey, Im from legends aswell you know.

[Amaroth]

Now hey, Im from legends aswell you know.

We never liked you, every time you're not around we talk about you.

[Jonspen]

Ohh, so thats how it is? Huh! Well, I'll hire some of Jeff's clowns, aye, that'll keep an eye on you.

[Amaroth]

http://img234.exs.cx/img234/5463/clown7zo.jpg

[Jonspen]

Wow, you sure showed me and my n00b clowns. I'll take a mental note to buy some anti-anti clown repellent.

[Amaroth]

:cool:

[Bottle]

Gotta love Ach's works of Paint Art...

[Jonspen]

Yea, deserves a spot in my sig.

[Ape King]

What can you expect, they're from legends. They think they know everything, when in fact they know very little...

lol

[Wayfaerer]

If that sig said <Soilworkers> instead, it would rock the house :cool:

[Godmic18]

What can you expect, they're from legends. They think they know everything, when in fact they know very little...

The same could be said of you. :cool:

[Amaroth]

The same could be said of you. :cool:

Actually, you couldn't say "we think we know everything because we're from Legends, when in fact, we know very little" because we're not from Legends.

[Wayfaerer]

Oohhh a vet made a funny! Pos rep him quickly :D

[Godmic18]

We think we know everything because we're from Legends, when in fact, we know very little" because we're not from Legends.

I just did. BAM. :eek:

[Amaroth]

:cool:

[Amaroth]

We think we know everything because we're from Legends, when in fact, we know very little" because we're not from Legends.

I just did. BAM. :eek:

You can say it, but it doesn't apply to us. We're not Legenders. We're... Erm... The people of DivineRight.

[Godmic18]

You can say it, but it doesn't apply to us. We're not Legenders. We're... Erm... The people of DivineRight.

LMAO! And I have nothing against you. I don't know why you all hate Legenders so much. Personally, I'm a big fan of Legends.

[Amaroth]

Who said I hate Legenders?

[Wayfaerer]

I did :cool:

[Godmic18]

I did :cool:

Yep.

[Warcow]

You can say it, but it doesn't apply to us. We're not Legenders. We're... Erm... The people of DivineRight.

So very very true :D

[Ape King]

Didnt know they gave us a nickname, lol legenders, that just crack me up. BD

[Godmic18]

Didnt know they gave us a nickname, lol legenders, that just crack me up. BD
Hey Cong, where's those sigs I saw you made? You know, the gorilla?

[Amaroth]

I did :cool:

Well, I didn't hate Legenders. But now I guess I have to :confused:

[Godmic18]

Well, I didn't hate Legenders. But now I guess I have to :confused:

Jerk. :p

[Ape King]

Hey Cong, where's those sigs I saw you made? You know, the gorilla?
You mean this one: http://img170.exs.cx/img170/5383/sig2ox.png
Like you said, it does take a lil extra space, so im not gonna put it up. Imma gonna lay low on the sig making for awhile. ;[ ...gett'in a lil off subject therr ;o

[Godmic18]

You mean this one: http://img170.exs.cx/img170/5383/sig2ox.png
Like you said, it does take a lil extra space, so im not gonna put it up. Imma gonna lay low on the sig making for awhile. ;[ ...gett'in a lil off subject therr ;o

Here ya go buddy. http://home.netcom.com/~godmic/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderfiles/sig2ox.png

[Amaroth]

Jerk. :p

What I meant it, he told me I hate Legenders. So I guess I have to now that he said so.

:(

[Ape King]

Pimp'in :cool:

[Jonspen]

Hey, congar!

[Ape King]

Jonspen! my man! I see you have your awsome rotat'in sig. :D

[Jonspen]

Yea, big pimpin'!

Man, it's been awhile. Hows it going?

[Ape King]

Its going alright, falling a lil behind on my games tho, cant keep up with the busher these days.

[Jonspen]

I feel your pain..... :confused:

[MANSLAUGHTER1]

I know how you guys feel. :(

[thefreezing]

I like to make old turtlers suffer with my ambusher! :evil cackling: :p

[MANSLAUGHTER1]

Now that is not nice. :mad: