Why God doesn't exist

[Amaroth]

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2005-03-04-news.htm (http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2005-03-04-chimp-attack_x.htm)

[roamingstorm]

if i die, thats how i want to go

i say if because there is a serious chance im immortal

[Jonspen]

Wow, they bought a chimpanze a cake?

[max2k106]

That it just SWEET


and sad ;)

[roamingstorm]

o ya well.... your mom goes to college

[max2k106]

o ya well.... your mom goes to college

Come down here and see what happens if you try an' hit me!

[Jonspen]

His mam is trying to further educate herself so she can spit on the likes of you out of her classy office. Whats wrong with that?

[Jeffery]

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2005-03-04-news.htm (http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2005-03-04-chimp-attack_x.htm)
Thats proof that not only does God exist, he even likes to monkey around. [/bad pun]

[Amaroth]

Is this proof enough that he doesn't exist? (http://www.webwasteland.com/61614505.html)

[Jeffery]

Is this proof enough that he doesn't exist? (http://www.webwasteland.com/61614505.html)
More proof that God DOES exist. And that some people are meant to burn in hell.

[mushroom_girl]

Is this proof enough that he doesn't exist? (http://www.webwasteland.com/61614505.html)
.....That is more disturbing than the killer monkies. I have lost all faith in God's sanity.

[The Prophet]

What does this have to do with God? :rolleyes:

[Jeffery]

It's the Atheistic viewpoint that God must not exist, because if he did he wouldn't allow aweful things to happen.

[Amaroth]

What does this have to do with God? :rolleyes:

Absolutly nothing!

[Life Sucks]

The secound s/s was quite a disturbing image. To think ppl actually follow something like that...

LS

[finalfantasyt]

i don't think that this is proof that God doesn't exist, i think it's more of proof that free will can be a bad thing. and that guy in the second link creeps me out. that's completely breaking the sixth commandment, and that guy doesn't even care. either he's lying, or he doesn't pay any attention at all. :rolleyes:

[Duffman]

Don't you get it? God is vengeful, spiteful and downright mean. Think about it. You're a good person, you respect all and are respected, you live your life in accordance with the law and even visit your grandmother every sunday. Yet because you don't follow the word of jesus you get to burn in hell for all of eternity. What kind of child says this... I'm giving you the freedom to live your life however you see fit, except if you don't do it right i take away your elbows and leave you to burn in constant horrific pain forever.

[The Prophet]

Don't you get it? God is vengeful, spiteful and downright mean. Think about it. You're a good person, you respect all and are respected, you live your life in accordance with the law and even visit your grandmother every sunday. Yet because you don't follow the word of jesus you get to burn in hell for all of eternity. What kind of child says this... I'm giving you the freedom to live your life however you see fit, except if you don't do it right i take away your elbows and leave you to burn in constant horrific pain forever.
Is that what it says or just your perception.

I think the monkeys are crazy because of evolution. Maybe something happened to their DNA during a second of evolving? At that second they went crazy and attacked that man. Or maybe the man was really their upstream cousin that killed his brother and this was his revenge that he has been waiting to do for 2 million years, that is according to the carbon dating.

[Mithrandir]

When you say you're a "good person" by what standard are you using? We can compare ourselves to other people like say, murderers, and conclude that we aren't so bad. But that isn't the right way to look at it. There is not one person reading this that is good enough to earn his way into heaven. It seems to me that a good rule of thumb on how good a person is would be the ten commandments (of course this is assuming you're referring to the God Christians worship and not Allah or the god of some other religion). How many of the ten commandments have you perfectly followed? I haven't followed a single one and I'm betting there isn't anyone here that has even followed 3 of them perfectly. Before citing "thou shalt not commit murder" or "thou shalt not commit adultery" take a look at what Jesus said about those two during the sermon on the mount (Matthew chapters 5-7).

People don't go to hell because Jesus sends them there. They go to hell because while all including Christians are sinners that deserve hell, those who haven't accepted the freely offered gift of salvation get exactly what they've chosen for themselves.

Jesus died so there would be an alternative to what we deserve.

If this board is anything like many others I've been on, "proselytyzing" is frowned upon so I'll stop here. In my experience a forum debate is an excellent intellectual exercise but it usually doesn't go anywhere as far as people being able to really share and make progress in learning about each other. It is also remarkably time-consuming. However, if any of you have any questions about any of this or anything related, just send me a private message and I would love to discuss it with you. Fair warning, I don't have all the answers but I know a lot of very smart people that I could ask if I need some help.

God bless y'all, I hope you don't take this post as obnoxious or judgmental, I truly write this with the best intentions.

[DeadFishGuy]

I think the monkeys are crazy because of evolution. Maybe something happened to their DNA during a second of evolving? At that second they went crazy and attacked that man. Or maybe the man was really their upstream cousin that killed his brother and this was his revenge that he has been waiting to do for 2 million years, that is according to the carbon dating.

You've got your facts wrong. You've either been watching the movie Evolution or playing Pokémon. Evolution doesn't happen in a second. It takes millions of years to even evolve something simple like a new hair colour. This is because you have to wait for a random genetic mutation that happens to give the animal an advantage in surviving. If it survives, it reproduces and even more animals have this gene. However, the probability of a mutation like this is very very unlikely, so it will take a helluva long time to get anything useful done.

I think a more likely explanation is that the chimps were mistreated in some way. Animals tend to become angry when mistreated.

[dirka dirka]

You've got your facts wrong. You've either been watching the movie Evolution or playing Pokémon. Evolution doesn't happen in a second. It takes millions of years to even evolve something simple like a new hair colour. This is because you have to wait for a random genetic mutation that happens to give the animal an advantage in surviving. If it survives, it reproduces and even more animals have this gene. However, the probability of a mutation like this is very very unlikely, so it will take a helluva long time to get anything useful done.

I think a more likely explanation is that the chimps were mistreated in some way. Animals tend to become angry when mistreated.

Not always true.

Giraffes have long necks, this happened in 100 years. A few long necked giraffes were born, they could eat the leaves on a tree from top to bottom, while the other ones starved because they had nothing to eat cause the bottom was gone. Therefor the mutation stayed, and giraffes have long necks.

[DeadFishGuy]

Not always true.

Giraffes have long necks, this happened in 100 years. A few long necked giraffes were born, they could eat the leaves on a tree from top to bottom, while the other ones starved because they had nothing to eat cause the bottom was gone. Therefor the mutation stayed, and giraffes have long necks.

I don't believe you. 100 years is miniscule compared to the amount of time it takes most stuff to evolve.

It would be possible that it happened in 100 years, but it's unlikely. So I want to see some evidence.

[Deathscythe]

Thats suks but he exist.

[DeadFishGuy]

Thats suks but he exist.

Prove it.

[Deathscythe]

I dont have to prove anyting because i believe.

[DeadFishGuy]

So you're just being too lazy to find a reason?

You can't just believe something for no reason.

[Jeffery]

I dont have to prove anyting because i believe.
What we are saying is this a discussion. If you are unable to discuss reasoning, then please go back to grade school, and leave serious discussions to people who can handle grown up conversations.

[Jeffery]

Not always true.

Giraffes have long necks, this happened in 100 years. A few long necked giraffes were born, they could eat the leaves on a tree from top to bottom, while the other ones starved because they had nothing to eat cause the bottom was gone. Therefor the mutation stayed, and giraffes have long necks.
Actually...

Giraffes have a short neck. It is actually shorter than average for other plains mammels when compared to the length of it's legs and body.

An antelope can bend it's neck, and drink easily. Giraffes must splay their forelegs, because their necks are not long enough to reach the ground.

Also, there is no proof of short term evolution, and much discussion (and several arguments) of why the evolution of the long neck came to be. All refer to the long time it would have taken to happen.

[DeadFishGuy]

You'd think a long neck would have disadvantages when it comes to being hunted.

A predator would have a lot of area to strike and sever a crucial blood vessel in the neck. It would be rather easy to kill a giraffe.

Unless the giraffe escapes while the predator is making up its mind where to strike. :rolleyes:

[The Prophet]

You've got your facts wrong. You've either been watching the movie Evolution or playing Pokémon. Evolution doesn't happen in a second. It takes millions of years to even evolve something simple like a new hair colour. This is because you have to wait for a random genetic mutation that happens to give the animal an advantage in surviving. If it survives, it reproduces and even more animals have this gene. However, the probability of a mutation like this is very very unlikely, so it will take a helluva long time to get anything useful done.

I think a more likely explanation is that the chimps were mistreated in some way. Animals tend to become angry when mistreated.
DFG that was a joke so don't insult my intelligence, pokemon :rolleyes:. I was saying that accoridng to evolution you are constantly evolving. So, I was saying that maybe in that one second of evolving the monkey went crazy and got revenge on one of his distant cousins. :D

Edit: there are plenty of debate threads on this issue and I dont think this was meant to there.

[DeadFishGuy]

Look, I really think you have the wrong idea.

You don't evolve after you are born. You have the genes you had when you were born for your entire life. The mutations occur during reproduction and take affect on the baby.

So if it was genetic, the chimp would have gone crazy long before that day.

Evolution takes a long time because the probability of a mutation is so low. NOT because it is gradual.

[savanna]

to some people. god ir real. but GOD DIDNT MAKR CHURCH EITHER! or the bible...... i beleev in god, but dont read the bible or go to church. to some god is ALL CHRUCH AND ALL BIBLE! god DIDNT tell them everything in the bible and as far as i knoe, he DIDNT build all churches either....

[The Prophet]

Look, I really think you have the wrong idea.

You don't evolve after you are born. You have the genes you had when you were born for your entire life. The mutations occur during reproduction and take affect on the baby.

So if it was genetic, the chimp would have gone crazy long before that day.

Evolution takes a long time because the probability of a mutation is so low. NOT because it is gradual.
Nope I think you have the wrong idea.

I am totally being funny and sarcastic.

[DeadFishGuy]

Don't make excuses, prophet.

You were wrong and you know it.

[The Prophet]

lol, what do you want to think that you proved me wrong? Ok, I will let you but I guess the,
Or maybe the man was really their upstream cousin that killed his brother and this was his revenge that he has been waiting to do for 2 million years, that is according to the carbon dating.
went right over your head.

[DeadFishGuy]

That was obviously a joke. That one was kinda funny, but I didn't see the joke in the single-second evolution thing. Especially when you tried to give reason for thinking it.

[The Prophet]

I was saying that accoridng to evolution you are constantly evolving. So, I was saying that maybe in that one second of evolving the monkey went crazy and got revenge on one of his distant
This was not a joke but sarcasm.

Go here if you want to discuss evolution but read the whole thread first.
http://70.84.36.198/forum/showthread.php?t=14666&page=1&pp=40&highlight=Evolution

[dirka dirka]

Actually...

Giraffes have a short neck. It is actually shorter than average for other plains mammels when compared to the length of it's legs and body.

An antelope can bend it's neck, and drink easily. Giraffes must splay their forelegs, because their necks are not long enough to reach the ground.

Also, there is no proof of short term evolution, and much discussion (and several arguments) of why the evolution of the long neck came to be. All refer to the long time it would have taken to happen.

The most plausible explanation is rapid evolution, or a mutation that made it impossible for the ones that didn't mutate to survive.

Giraffes don't have a short neck relative to the fossils scientists have found from before they had long necks. They have found fossils of the Giraffe with a short neck, and actually dominate, meaning not just one fossil was found.

http://natureinstitute.org/pub/ic/ic10/Images/IC10_giraffe_1.gif
Look at that image, then tell me how the Giraffe with a short neck will survive? It won't.

Source: http://natureinstitute.org/pub/ic/ic10/giraffe.htm

[dirka dirka]

Look, I really think you have the wrong idea.

You don't evolve after you are born. You have the genes you had when you were born for your entire life. The mutations occur during reproduction and take affect on the baby.

So if it was genetic, the chimp would have gone crazy long before that day.

Evolution takes a long time because the probability of a mutation is so low. NOT because it is gradual.

Although not completely true, gene mutation due to radiation could occur, or other natural mutations.

[savanna]

lets all QUOTE people......

[Jeffery]

A giraffe has a long neck when you compare JUST the neck to other mammals.

But an animal is classified by more than one feature. The fossilized remains also had shorter front legs. The neck of a giraffe is long compared to other animals, but short for the length of its front legs.

Also, you are correct to say giraffes had short necks. They were basically larger versions of the antelope style mammal at that time. But the evolution to the long neck took much longer than 100 years.

How would a giraffe with a short neck survive? Well, according to your very own post, they were dominant for a long time, with short necks. But those who reached the higher food source other competitors could not fed better. The others still fed however. Over time this lead to longer and longer front bodies. (again, you have to look at the whole, not just the neck)

[dirka dirka]

A giraffe has a long neck when you compare JUST the neck to other mammals.

But an animal is classified by more than one feature. The fossilized remains also had shorter front legs. The neck of a giraffe is long compared to other animals, but short for the length of its front legs.

Also, you are correct to say giraffes had short necks. They were basically larger versions of the antelope style mammal at that time. But the evolution to the long neck took much longer than 100 years.

How would a giraffe with a short neck survive? Well, according to your very own post, they were dominant for a long time, with short necks. But those who reached the higher food source other competitors could not fed better. The others still fed however. Over time this lead to longer and longer front bodies. (again, you have to look at the whole, not just the neck)

Yea, the others died off eventually, maybe not 100 years, however it was subtle, maybe 1,000. Relative to us thats a long time, however its not truly a long time. The mutation may have existed in only one or two for 40,000 years though, so it depends on how you look at the evolution.

[dirka dirka]

lets all QUOTE people......

You annoy me.

[T3km4n]

Your beliefs are almost genetic. Whatever your parents believe, they try to bring you up in the same way, and usually you do believe in their religion. If god existed, then how could he let such things as who are your parents decide if you go to heaven or hell?

[Dagashi]

Your beliefs are almost genetic. Whatever your parents believe, they try to bring you up in the same way, and usually you do believe in their religion. If god existed, then how could he let such things as who are your parents decide if you go to heaven or hell?


I wouldn't say your beliefs are almost genetic; I would say that they are based on experience and your parents upbringing deffinately contributes to that but is not the only thing. I would also say that most people in almost all religions believe that who goes to heaven and hell is not decided on belief. For instance, there was a survey of Luthrians that revealed about 75% of them agreed with the statement, "You don't have to be Christian to go to heaven." Muhammed said that there would be a place in heaven for all faithful believers: Christian, Jewish and Muslim (the three faiths he was most familiar with).

I would just like you to remember that there are a lot of moderate and liberal believers in the world and don't let a handful of conservatives poison you against religion. I think most of us would agree with you.

Dagashi (the forum deffender of liberal religion :D )

[Elektra]

sorry, but i could help but laugh when i read the title..

[raeven]

Hi Elektra its me hellmasker where u been