Allstar In Hiding

[monkus]

As many people know, I played allstar on saturday, and won. Monday, allstar challeges me, and I politely decline, because I just played him two days ago. Soon after, I see metro156 on, and I challenge him, asking for a turtle game b/c i'm in the mood to turtle. He declines.

Two seconds later, he asks for that turtle game. I accept. In game, he reveals he's really allstar, and beats me, taking my stats. Allstar's a 1700 account, metro's a 1400. After asking him to draw, he refused. He said i "deserved the loss". Claiming that I was trying to manipulate the stat system, he refused any form of compromise and beat me, taking many more stats than a player of his level is supposed to at a loss.

While I do feel stats don't matter, at the point where we're in a close neck to neck race for 1st place on the server, I think underhanded tactics like this are to be shunned. Especially when you let the losses get to your head so much you feel the need to take revenge in such a manner.

I have s/s proving he challenged me on metro, and refused the draw. I think it's rediculous, and have lost all respect I held for allstar.

[allstarGL]

i was just in the mood for a game and since no1 would play my allstar account i switched to metro and since no1 would freestyle metro i then accepted ur challenge to turtle i wasnt seeking revenge i was just seeking a good game im sry that u lost u precious stats but deal with it buddy we all have to i think u begging for me to surrender then begging for a draw as i hear u do with a lot of people is just pathetic u deserved to lose u played bad u dont deserve to stay #1 with people giving u draws.ANYTIME U MAN UP ILL B WAITING TO PLAY U

[dirka dirka]

allstar is not hard to beat, at all

[Amaroth]

That's horrible.

[monkus]

Allstar, perhaps we could all prosper in the wonders of your post if it was in comprehendible English. Punctuation is our friend.

[allstarGL]

Whatever Lick My Balls

[ko71991]

Interesting...

[Cuathon]

monkus, there was no need to post a thread about it. if he did this then you can just lose respect. there was no reason to brign this into the open before asking him anything. also you said stats dont mean anything. but you complained about losing stats.

however if you refused his challaenge with allstar he shouldnt have played you as metro.

bad allstar!

[Amaroth]

AllStar, you have demeaned yourself as a person by doing this. You're no longer a good player. You're a petty little n00b who uses cheap tactics to come out on top. You are no longer considered good at this game, in my eyes. In all seriousness, you suck. You might be able to play well, but the numbers that represent you are now useless, the clan you are in is a symbol of all that you stand for - cheating, and your name is going to be shunned by anyone who is decent-hearted.

Congratulations.

[dirka dirka]

Yea... allstar... nothing can make up for this. I am sad to say I once made you a banner, and once called you my friend. You are just another noob, good luck as you will need it.

[allstarGL]

its sad when u get ridiculed for wanting to play a good player but i dont want nor need ur respect i know who my friends are and im just getting tired of no1 playing me. i still enjoy playing tactics and im sry i didnt surrender for u or draw but thats my style i dont expect some1 to surrender for me and i certainly wont for them.

[Utamaro]

AllStar, you have demeaned yourself as a person by doing this. You're no longer a good player. You're a petty little n00b who uses cheap tactics to come out on top. You are no longer considered good at this game, in my eyes. In all seriousness, you suck. You might be able to play well, but the numbers that represent you are now useless, the clan you are in is a symbol of all that you stand for - cheating, and your name is going to be shunned by anyone who is decent-hearted.

Congratulations.


Agreed, I'm going to need to side with Monkus on this one.

[dirka dirka]

its sad when u get ridiculed for wanting to play a good player but i dont want nor need ur respect i know who my friends are and im just getting tired of no1 playing me. i still enjoy playing tactics and im sry i didnt surrender for u or draw but thats my style i dont expect some1 to surrender for me and i certainly wont for them.

You always denied my wanting of turtle battles! I beat you once, and surrendered as a measure of good faith, then you denied any more battles.

[Cuathon]

err now that ive been the voice of reason, dude you batsard! :cool:

bugger you allstar! :p

[Utamaro]

You always denied my wanting of turtle battles! I beat you once, and surrendered as a measure of good faith, then you denied any more battles.


Damn... your just making yourself look more pathetic everytime you post huh... Though I never played you. I feel I have no reason to anymore. Even if you CAN beat me. I'd rather not waste my time. Knowing you might just come back on another name to try and seek revenge.

[343 HeadHunter]

Whatever you guys just need to back off....Monkus says he doesn't care about stats, but I challenged him and he wouldn't play me either. And so what allstar just used another account that isn't cheating, is it allstars fault monkus didn't know it was him? He never lied and monkus never asked is this allstar. Allstar even beat monkus in a turtle which is what monkus is "good" at. I say go allstar and stop complaining monkus, cuz if i remember correctly you do beg for draws, everytime I beat you you ask for a draw saying i was lucky and i shoudl draw you. I never do.

[Halo-master]

Allstar its me Star Ocean let me back in the clan plz.:):):):)

[dirka dirka]

Allstar its me Star Ocean let me back in the clan plz.:):):):)
Join a good clan, not a clan of asshats.

[FryLock]

Yes, it was low an allstar's part, but monkus, grow up. stats, shmats, it doesn't matter. Are you the same good player whether you're rated 750 or 1750? Yes. While it was cheap and stupid what he did, this thread isn't really going to help. All it accomplishes is us hearing you complain about unfairness in an online game. Stats are only for one's own ego.

But allstar - c'mon man. You know better than that.

[Cuathon]

dude head, there is plaenty of luck in a turt game. i would certainly ask for a draw if a guy 300 points blew me ripped 20 points when i was at 1650.

[monkus]

its sad when u get ridiculed for wanting to play a good player but i dont want nor need ur respect i know who my friends are and im just getting tired of no1 playing me. i still enjoy playing tactics and im sry i didnt surrender for u or draw but thats my style i dont expect some1 to surrender for me and i certainly wont for them.

Hmm. You wanted to play me. I declined, with good reason. So deceiving me is justified?
Of course I don't expect someone to surrender or draw just out of the blue. If I ever ask someone to, and they decline, I'm fine with that. However, with that said, there are times that is appropriate. For example, when I have to play someone on BG Leaders, because of a clan tryout or something, I ALWAYS surrender at end.
It's not about the stats. Stats alone are some arbitrary number that serve no purpose. It's the competative aspect of crx, allstar and I all racing towards the top. I beat allstar, and I presume when I play crx in a few days, he'll beat me. But, this doesn't mean we resort to cheap tactics to take blows at eachother's points.


Whatever Lick My Balls

I love the maturity that you're giving us allstar.

[Utamaro]

is it allstars fault monkus didn't know it was him? He never lied and monkus never asked is this allstar. Allstar even beat monkus in a turtle which is what monkus is "good" at. I say go allstar and stop complaining monkus, cuz if i remember correctly you do beg for draws, everytime I beat you you ask for a draw saying i was lucky and i shoudl draw you. I never do.


Usualy when one wants to stay hidden. THEY DON'T COME OUT AND TELL YOU WHO THEY ARE! With that said, when you play someone... do you suspect them to be another player... I wouldn't think so. So why would you randomly say "Are you so and so?" if you don't have a reason to suspect it. Wehn I play someone I'm not thinking "Hmmm this might be Warcow." I assume it's the person who created the account.

[allstarGL]

maybe i should have declined ur challenge but i was in the mood to play and got no other offers and im not going to surrender so if u must hate me for it then do as u please.

[Blexican]

but did you really have to result to that? and Fry is absolutley true, this game has come down to stat doesnt matter anymore its whether your known as a good skilled player, I dont really look at stats anymore, I just play.

[Utamaro]

maybe i should have declined ur challenge but i was in the mood to play and got no other offers and im not going to surrender so if u must hate me for it then do as u please.

I don't think he "hates" you for not surrendering. But if you wanted a game that bad. Why not go on your name and play monkus again... Instead of hidding on someone elses name?

[Amaroth]

I believe this to be a bannable offense. Or at least in my opinion it is.

The administrator's have made it clear that they will not tolerate any means of cheating. People cheat to gain higher stats, ultimately moving them up on the rankings. Both Monkus and Allstar are striving for this goal.

Monkus has the right to refuse a game from Allstar. That goes against no rules. Allstar knew that he had to lower Monkus's stats to have the upper hand on the climb to #1. If Monkus would not play him, then he would have to just gain stats from someone else. So instead, he decides to trick Monkus into playing him. He goes onto another account, lies about his identity, knowing that if he loses the stats won't matter, then reveals who he is. His sole purpose is not to gain stats for the account, but to lower Monkus's stats, so he could have a larger gap between himself and Monkus with his primary account.

If it is a bannable to use a secondary account, play yourself, and gain more stats, then using a secondary account to eliminate all competition, with no repercussion on his own stats if he loses should be bannable as well.

This is ridiculous. It's the same as upping his stats to be number one. Instead of upping his own, he's lowering other's. Ban him.

[dirka dirka]

I agree, I think he needs atleast his stats set to 750.

[Cuathon]

becasue monkus declined to allstars name?

but that still wasnt justified. fight some greys

[allstarGL]

i was just in the mood for a game and since no1 would play my allstar account i switched to metro and since no1 would freestyle metro i then accepted ur challenge to turtle i wasnt seeking revenge i was just seeking a good game im sry that u lost u precious stats but deal with it buddy we all have to i think u begging for me to surrender then begging for a draw as i hear u do with a lot of people is just pathetic u deserved to lose u played bad u dont deserve to stay #1 with people giving u draws.ANYTIME U MAN UP ILL B WAITING TO PLAY U

utamaro did u not read this ? i wasnt hiding i just wanted to play not because of stats because i wanted a game apparently thats wrong nowadays. no1 would play me on my allstar account so i went on metro looking for a challenge. i got 1 accepted and played . i really didnt think the stats mattered that much to monkus but since they apparently do im sry for hurting his feelings

[Cuathon]

while i agree that allstar shouldnt have done this i think a 3 day ban or something should be the worst punishment. a stat reset for one offense suchas this is too much.

[monkus]

Whatever you guys just need to back off....Monkus says he doesn't care about stats, but I challenged him and he wouldn't play me either. And so what allstar just used another account that isn't cheating, is it allstars fault monkus didn't know it was him? He never lied and monkus never asked is this allstar. Allstar even beat monkus in a turtle which is what monkus is "good" at. I say go allstar and stop complaining monkus, cuz if i remember correctly you do beg for draws, everytime I beat you you ask for a draw saying i was lucky and i shoudl draw you. I never do.

343, I didn't play you because I'm superstituous. I've played you at least 5 or 6 times already, and in my view, luck has been a major factor each time. Despite this, no matter what, a person has the right to refuse a challenge, and it is not proper for a person to use deceit to evade that refusal.
I challenged metro. I've been meaning to play metro for awhile. I never challenged allstar.

It's important to notice allstar and 343's argument. Deceit is okay as long as no one asks you about it. It's okay to trick whoever you want, as long as you tell the truth if questioned. I can hand my parents a report card that has A+'s everywhere, and as long as they don't ask me "Is this your school report card?" it's okay.

Did allstar directly lie to me? No. Did he deceive me to better further his goals? Yes. Is there a problem with this? Yes.

Furthermore, I don't care about stats themselves. If I lose them fairly, so be it. However, there's a fine line between not caring and being stupid. If a person beats me on their normal account in a fair game, so let them have their stats. If I ask for a draw, it's a simple offer that can be accepted or refused. No problems with that. I enjoy the competativeness, however. It drives us to do our best, and play lots and lots of fun games. But when one person starts taking unfair stabs at his competition, I get angry, regardless of whether I value the competition or not.
Ask yourselves this: When you're in a petty dog show or the like, even if you don't care at all about the results, would you find yourself distraught if you saw a person pay off a judge, or the like? Regardless of the value of the competition itself, foul behaviour should ALWAYS be treated harshly.

Furthermore, I do not beg for draws on any form of regular occassion. If I feel something has happened that is outside the fair guidelines of the game, such as a form that is not a turtle being used in a turtle game, or this specifically, then I may fight aggressively for a draw.
Occasionally, if I feel luck has played a major role, I'll ask for a draw. If refused, so be it. I won't argue. 343, if luck did play a major role, and I asked for one, you can simply refuse. Regardless, instances of draws in the past mean nothing here. I don't see why they should matter.

And finally, who in the world cares if it's a turtle game. Does that make cheating any better? I lose turtle games, I lose freestyle games, I lose rush games, I lose knight duels, I lose gray games. Sure, I win some types more than i win others. So what?

[Utamaro]

utamaro did u not read this ? i wasnt hiding i just wanted to play not because of stats because i wanted a game apparently thats wrong nowadays. no1 would play me on my allstar account so i went on metro looking for a challenge. i got 1 accepted and played . i really didnt think the stats mattered that much to monkus but since they apparently do im sry for hurting his feelings


Man your and idiot. You knew if you told Monkus who you where before the match he wouldn't play you. so as Amaroth said, you tricked Monkus. I agree you should be banned for this. They shouldn't let this go... I hope that they won't let this go.

[Cuathon]

allstar thats not the problem. stats should never be the primary reason for a complaint. is it monku's fault he didnt know metro was you?

the action and not the result is the problem. like i said play a grey.

[Amaroth]

becasue monkus declined to allstars name?

You're neck and neck with another player to be number 1. Instead of defeating you on the account I'm trying to get to #1 with, gain my stats honestly, and deprive your's from you honestly; I go on another account, lie about who I am, go in game with you, having no intentions of gaining stats for my account, but only to make you lose stats.

Or to make it more clear...

Pretend I'm in contendance with another boxer to be the world champion. We need to keep fighting people and gain influence to reach number one. Instead of just defeating you on my own, I dress up as someone else, and challenge you to a match. I beat you up. Now I go back to being myself. You're hurt, your boxing capabilities are limited, mine are at their fullest. I've created a gap between you and I.

Monkus didn't play Allstar because he didn't want to put his chance at number one in jeopardy. But reguardless, Allstar did. So he jumped him.

Ban him. Or reset his stats.

[monkus]

while i agree that allstar shouldnt have done this i think a 3 day ban or something should be the worst punishment. a stat reset for one offense suchas this is too much.

Achilles has a great point. If we caught someone playing themself, even once, their stats would be reset and/or they'd be banned. Allstar was only caught doing this once. How do we know he doesn't have many passwords and do this many times?

No one "asked him directly if he does this", so I guess he doesn't really feel it's wrong, as long as no one asks him about this. I guess he isn't really lying as long as no one questions him.

[CRX687]

bannable offense?!

Cu, wasn't it you that played me with the spirit account on Rev after i refused to play cuathon? I lost a bit of respect for you (which you gained right back for beating me :) ) but lived with it.

Monk, stop bringing every single beef you have out in the open and making it a public poll...

If you accepted the match, then there was no reason for him not to play. He wanted a game, no one would play him as "allstar" so he used another account available to him... i find it sad that your "competitor" had to use a lower-ranked account to get a game with you. Even if you do get the number 1 spot in terms of ranking, if you can't consistently beat the people under you, then you should just give it up. Stats are supposed to be a representation of skill. When i had number 1, i faced allstar a ton of times, losing about half of those... playing him and beating him once before isn't a viable excuse for not playing that person again.

ach, is refusing a challenge on the basis that you may lose not a form of stat manipulation?

[343 HeadHunter]

Monkus wouldn't play him on allstar, that is why he was on metro, no one would play him on allstar.

[allstarGL]

ive been going on metro for a while now and i play gold games on that account when no1 will play me on my account. i wasnt out to get u I just wanted a game and u were the only person who challenged me. ive played crx a few times without knowing when hes on the eindeg-dein account and lost but its no big deal i take my loss and move on.

[Godmic18]

After reading this, I've realized that I don't care. I play on grey accounts on fps servers and rape stats, does that make me evil? It isn't even that big of a deal. He got caught.... PLAYING ON ANOTHER ACCOUNT?!?!?!?! Wow. I really am surprised at you guys. I can't believe you actually are talking about a temporary ban. That's just lame. Tao is a game where you can have as many accounts as you want and play to the best of your ability. Just because I don't come out and say, "Hey everyone, I am a 1500 gold using a grey account, so beware, you may lose stat." doesn't mean I deserve a 3 day ban. Anyway, that's my imput. I honestly don't give a rat's tail if you or I lose stat, no matter how much it is. Stat does nothing for you in this game. Now, if he'd entered multiple accounts in a tourny or something, then my opinion would change, but he didn't do that so lay off. [/grow up]

[Cuathon]

Amaroth i was answering Utamaro's question. he asked why not challange monk on you regular account. i said allstar already did. im not defending allstar. i ahve way more respect for monkus. im on his side.

also, when someone plays themself there is no other reason that they did so then wanting stats. but allstar claims he just wanted a game. i tihnk we should be more lenient on people who want games than people whoi want stats. i myslef get realy pissed if i cant get a game. since we cnat prove that allstar is lying i think we should give him one more chance. however a reacurring instance would be punished with a permanent ban rather than a reset which is what he should get if we bust him this time.

while i think that allstar has a right to be pissed for not getting games i have lost respect for him because he used the method he did. i am firmly on monkus's side that allstar was being a bitch and should get in trouble.

[Hugh Junit]

you tricked Monkus. I agree you should be banned for this.

I'm sorry, Utamaro, but that's ridiculous.
Banned?!?!
Let's break down exactly what happened. Monkus played allstar, and beat him. Later on, allstar was using his other account and monkus challenged him, not knowing it was allstar. Allstar originally declined the challenge, then accepted it, and he even agreed to the ground rules ( turtle vs turtle ).
Allstar reveals his identity to monkus in game. He didn't keep it a secret, but he also may not have wanted EVERYONE to know, which is why he didn't reveal it in the lobby. Allstar wins, refusing to give monkus the draw he requested.
I wouldn't have given it either.
Allstar did nothing wrong. He wasn't the one who issued the challenge. He didn't break the ground rules. He didn't lie about his identity.
What's the big deal?

[CRX687]

Achilles has a great point. If we caught someone playing themself, even once, their stats would be reset and/or they'd be banned. Allstar was only caught doing this once. How do we know he doesn't have many passwords and do this many times?

No one "asked him directly if he does this", so I guess he doesn't really feel it's wrong, as long as no one asks him about this. I guess he isn't really lying as long as no one questions him.

if you want to be truly the best, you have to be able to beat everyone. And i know allstar doesn't cheat...

btw, allstar, you beat me more than i beat you on eindeg ;)

[Amaroth]

ach, is refusing a challenge on the basis that you may lose not a form of stat manipulation?

It's not. He in no way manipulated it. He simply did not play. Does that mean every time I'm not on TAO, since I'm not playing - not losing stats, I'm manipulating the system? I've seen YOU refuse games from 1100 golds. And it's a good reason! I refuse them too, it's not worth playing them; we won't get much of anything. Monkus did the same, he was satisfied with his previous win over Allstar two days earlier, and didn't want to risk losing stats, so he politely refused the game.

You and I refusing a game from a 1100 because we won't gain a large increase is exactly the same as Monkus refusing a game with a 1700 because he doesn't want to risk a large decrease.

[Cuathon]

im sorry about that crx. i dont remeber that event. im not sure if my stats were higher or anything. without memory of the event i cant defend myself well. however, you werent a huge competitor with me for first place. i had no malicious intent and there is no way you should assume i did. besides how may points did you lose? you cnat compare many things on Rev to things on other servers. people who suck on rev have low stats and people high on rev have low stats elsewhere.

the 2 situtations are different. monksu must have lost like 20 points which sucks at 1700. also i was advocating a less harsh punishment. i was trying to get allstar a break. dont act like im being awful even if the event with rev was almost as bad as this.

i was trying to be the voice f reason for allstar to help him out. i only posted the other stuff because i was pointing out that i was on monkus's side.

[allstarGL]

if you want to be truly the best, you have to be able to beat everyone. And i know allstar doesn't cheat...

btw, allstar, you beat me more than i beat you on eindeg ;)

LOL i wonder how many we've played and i didnt know it was u. also didnt monkus know that me u and zzz had metros pass?

[Moose]

Grow up Children it's just a game



Moosey

[ArcPaladinZero]

Hahaha! He beat me. Boo hoo. I don't think it's fair. Grow up and stop whining.

[Godmic18]

Grow up Children it's just a game


Wierd....

I agree with Moose. :confused:

[allstarGL]

i applaud the people who stand up and express how truely pathetic this thread really is.

[Realist]

Grow up Children it's just a game
Moosey

Yep.

This is hardly criminal, people. You're allowed to play on multiple accounts in this game.

I've done similar things with grey names, taking a random new one each month so people won't think its me. Is this such a horrible thing?

[Cuathon]

lol moose,
mr. retired play.

maybe some of us take our games more seriously than you and godmic18?

its all in those brain cells and... stuff... :cool:

[dirka dirka]

i applaud the people who stand up and express how truely pathetic this thread really is.
i applaud the people who stand up and express how truely pathetic allstar really is.

[Godmic18]

I've done similar things with grey names, taking a random new one each month so people won't think its me. Is this such a horrible thing?

Yes.

Yes it is.



[/retarded]
LMFAO!!!

[monkus]

Even if you do get the number 1 spot in terms of ranking, if you can't consistently beat the people under you, then you should just give it up. Stats are supposed to be a representation of skill. When i had number 1, i faced allstar a ton of times, losing about half of those... playing him and beating him once before isn't a viable excuse for not playing that person again.

ach, is refusing a challenge on the basis that you may lose not a form of stat manipulation?

Crx is really helping me prove my point. Here's why:

Crx said he lost to allstar about half the time. However, he stayed as #1. The reason is, both their stats represented their skill. If every single time they faced, allstar was 750, then crx would've been #50, not #1. The losses would've outweighed the wins, because he'd have gotten 0 for the wins, but lost 30 for the losses.

The stat system desperately relies on stats being accurate towards their players, because a person needs to lose stats based on the level of their opponent. I need to be able to lose and win and have it balance out somewhere. If my losses to good players are treated as if I lost to not as good players, then the system has failed me.

I'm not supposed to beat everyone below me to maintain #1. You just admitted that yourself, that you lost to allstar about 50% of the time. The system balances itself out and finds a #1 by the fact that the people he beats give him enough stats to outweigh the people he loses to, assuming that points given and taken represent the games played.

[Moose]

i applaud the people who stand up and express how truely pathetic allstar really is.


Your just throwing logs into the flame, someone lock this thread


Moosey

[thefreezing]

As many people know, I played allstar on saturday, and won. Monday, allstar challeges me, and I politely decline, because I just played him two days ago. Soon after, I see metro156 on, and I challenge him, asking for a turtle game b/c i'm in the mood to turtle. He declines.

Two seconds later, he asks for that turtle game. I accept. In game, he reveals he's really allstar, and beats me, taking my stats. Allstar's a 1700 account, metro's a 1400. After asking him to draw, he refused. He said i "deserved the loss". Claiming that I was trying to manipulate the stat system, he refused any form of compromise and beat me, taking many more stats than a player of his level is supposed to at a loss.

While I do feel stats don't matter, at the point where we're in a close neck to neck race for 1st place on the server, I think underhanded tactics like this are to be shunned. Especially when you let the losses get to your head so much you feel the need to take revenge in such a manner.

I have s/s proving he challenged me on metro, and refused the draw. I think it's rediculous, and have lost all respect I held for allstar.
Haha. Reminds me of what I did to you (Monkus), but in a different way though.

[dirka dirka]

Your just throwing logs into the flame, someone lock this thread


Moosey
I like logs, and I like flames.

[Amaroth]

Even if you do get the number 1 spot in terms of ranking, if you can't consistently beat the people under you, then you should just give it up. Stats are supposed to be a representation of skill. When i had number 1, i faced allstar a ton of times, losing about half of those... playing him and beating him once before isn't a viable excuse for not playing that person again.

Precisely! Allstar's stats on that account did not represent his skill.

[allstarGL]

Crx is really helping me prove my point. Here's why:

Crx said he lost to allstar about half the time. However, he stayed as #1. The reason is, both their stats represented their skill. If every single time they faced, allstar was 750, then crx would've been #50, not #1. The losses would've outweighed the wins, because he'd have gotten 0 for the wins, but lost 30 for the losses.

The stat system desperately relies on stats being accurate towards their players, because a person needs to lose stats based on the level of their opponent. I need to be able to lose and win and have it balance out somewhere. If my losses to good players are treated as if I lost to not as good players, then the system has failed me.

I'm not supposed to beat everyone below me to maintain #1. You just admitted that yourself, that you lost to allstar about 50% of the time. The system balances itself out and finds a #1 by the fact that the people he beats give him enough stats to outweigh the people he loses to, assuming that points given and taken represent the games played.
crx has done the same thing to me with the eindeg-dein account the only difference is u make this out like im out to get u when all i wanted was a game ive played many golds on the metro account and taken their stats not because im trying to be unfair just because im not really 1 to give something they didnt earn

[343 HeadHunter]

allstar who was first to deffend you? that's right..me :) sorry I just want that fact out there...and this is the exact reason I HATE BG

[thefreezing]

I like logs, and I like flames.
Obviously. :rolleyes:

[Godmic18]

Precisely! Allstar's stats on that account did not represent his skill.

I have a skill of 1500+. Does that mean every time I make an account, It should start at 1500 to be fair? I won't mind. :cool:

[Blexican]

so dirka + logs + fire = fireplace? or dirka + fire + logs = bonfire?

[CRX687]

I have a skill of 1500+. Does that mean every time I make an account, It should start at 1500 to be fair? I won't mind. :cool:

now THAT is a good suggestion :cool:

[FryLock]

God, this is irritating. Monkus, what's the matter with you? It's a freaking GAME! It's not as if he stole your lunch money or something. While I agree that his tactics were underhanded and a little cheap, there's nothing against the rules. Do you really think that whining in the forums is going to get anything done, other than polarizing people, which is what's happening now?

Man...I used to think you were cool, then you started pulling all this reactionary bs to "what is a turtle" and now this. Calm yourself. Do stats really mean that much to you? It's a game. Treat it as such. Take a breath and walk away.

Hell, if what he did was against the rules and he should be banned, then half of the Illuminati members on Banff should be banned...well...there's only about 4 real members and they have 8 accounts or something and their goal is to keep me from 1800...but I don't complain about it or ask for draws if they're winning...it's a game. Being #1 is worth exactly the value of the paper it's printed on.

Stop this ruckus, everyone.

[Moose]

Hmm, how many tree's are we up to now?



Moosey

[Amaroth]

allstar who was first to deffend you? that's right..me :) sorry I just want that fact out there...and this is the exact reason I HATE BG

That's too bad. We wuv you :cool:

Also, if you hate us so much, then why were you asking Monk today about being your partner in Act's tournament?

[Cavour]

Whoo! This is chaotic, eh? I'll make my post short and sweet. :p

In my opinion, I think Allstar should've at least given a draw, not because of any rules being broken, but more out of the reality of it all, and the fact that Allstar simply isn't a 1400 player. He's a 1700 player, or higher. I'm not sure about the exact numbers, but I assume taking a loss from a someone with 1700 stats is probably around the same as drawing a 1400 player, isn't it? In my opinion, because Allstar's a 1700 player, but was using a 1400 account, a draw would've been in order, as it would've been more like Monk losing to Allstar. That's my opinion, as I've given players draws if I get incredibly lucky towards the end of a really close game, or if I'm drastically lower than them and I don't hate them. :p No rules for it really, but I do it, and find it more suitable, and acceptable, more out of morality and fairness than anything else. That's my two cents! O_O!

[Liquid Swordsman]

Whatever you guys just need to back off....Monkus says he doesn't care about stats, but I challenged him and he wouldn't play me either. And so what allstar just used another account that isn't cheating, is it allstars fault monkus didn't know it was him? He never lied and monkus never asked is this allstar. Allstar even beat monkus in a turtle which is what monkus is "good" at. I say go allstar and stop complaining monkus, cuz if i remember correctly you do beg for draws, everytime I beat you you ask for a draw saying i was lucky and i shoudl draw you. I never do.


Agreed.

Not a big deal monk, get over it.

If you jumped Allstar with a account of yours and he didn't know it was you, you would not surrender if you were going to win.

Stats aren't life, the quicker you accept it, the quicker you can have fun with the game.

[monkus]

Sure, it's just a game, and this is just the forums for that game. If you don't want to argue about issues over a game, then what are you doing on the forums for that game? I'm sure 99% of threads that talk about issues about the game, units in the game, etc. could be answered with "It's just a game". Regardless, this is where we talk about said game. So talk about it. I'm not suggesting allstar be flung into a pit of fire and brimstones. I'm suggesting he be punished within that game that this takes place.

Meanwhile, realist, there's a difference between playing on a gray account and a gold account. Gray accounts are always strange people, they have disadvantages due to less units, and most grays don't have a well-known identity.

Golds have an established identity, and are on an equal playing field with other golds. If I made a 750 account, golded it, and started beating people regularly, for the reason of making my account seem better, and constantly reducing this other account back to 750, then there's a problem.

Especially considering the fact that I blatantly refused to play allstar on his normal account, deceiving me into playing him was improper.
Furthermore, using alternate accounts to manipulate stats is ban-worthy. If allstar used another account to pump himself up, he can be banned. So if allstar used another account to loser his opponents, with no risk to himself whatsoever, then he should be banned.

[Liquid Swordsman]

Cry me a river :rolleyes:

[monkus]

Agreed.

Not a big deal monk, get over it.

If you jumped Allstar with a account of yours and he didn't know it was you, you would not surrender if you were going to win.

Stats aren't life, the quicker you accept it, the quicker you can have fun with the game.

Sure i would've. I've been given the password to a few gold accounts, whose owners wish me to raise the stats of. I won't do it. It's wrong.

I don't care if stats, or this game, are life or not. I'm not going to go to the newspapers, if I do then you can tell me I'm insane or whatnot. Over here, we talk about tactics arena. So if you're telling me it's just a game, then what are you doing wasting time on the forums of that game?

[allstarGL]

most of u bgers are nothing but drama queens. people that just like to stir up shit like calling othedefender a cheater..and now me. i cant say all bgers are like this but seems most of u r. the rest of us actually just want to play some tacticsarena at a competitive level. u guys just seem stat bound only playing games that suit ur skill like turtles and making ridiculous threads about people when u dont get ur way. there was no way i was going to surrender or give u a draw i dont play like that if its going to result in a thread like this everytime then so be it.

[Liquid Swordsman]

most of u bgers are nothing but drama queens. people that just like to stir up shit like calling othedefender a cheater..and now me. i cant say all bgers are like this but seems most of u r. the rest of us actually just want to play some tacticsarena at a competitive level. u guys just seem stat bound only playing games that suit ur skill like turtles and making ridiculous threads about people when u dont get ur way. there was no way i was going to surrender or give u a draw i dont play like that if its going to result in a thread like this everytime then so be it.


Hey, I'm in BG, and I'm defending you >:<

[allstarGL]

thats why i said most, not all, some of u i like. sry if there was a missunderstanding there.

[da1n]

Monkus the guy beats you, he earns some of your stats, regardless of who he is. :rolleyes: :cool:

[Moose]

Hmm, about 4 posts per minute on this topic, wow, thats alot of posts, if this keeps up that will be? 4X60=240x24=hmm (gets calculator).....ahh! 4800+960=5760 posts per day...hmm new tao record


Moosey

[Cavour]

most of u bgers are nothing but drama queens
I just LOVE it when people take cheap shots at a clan because they're arguing with a member! It's so justified! :rolleyes:

[Liquid Swordsman]

I know, I'm just messing around :mamba:
^^Directed towards CRX

[Godmic18]

Hmmm.. When I was a gold on banff I smacked the crap outta a bunch of people as Checkers. I got to 1400 in three days. The sad thing is, they all jumped me or asked me for a game. It was fun to see their reactions when they realized just how noob I was. :cool:

Too bad I let checkers get wiped... Oh well, maybe I'll make another one sometime.

[allstarGL]

I just LOVE it when people take cheap shots at a clan because they're arguing with a member! It's so justified! :rolleyes:

my apoligies to u cav im a little pissed off my words were in no way directed at u.

[Cavour]

my apoligies to u cav im a little pissed off my words were in no way directed at u.
Eh, it's fine. I can see how this type of arguement thread could heat people up. I just don't particularly like it when you or 343_Sparky start tongue lashing BG because they're debating something with a member or two.

[monkus]

most of u bgers are nothing but drama queens. people that just like to stir up shit like calling othedefender a cheater..and now me. i cant say all bgers are like this but seems most of u r. the rest of us actually just want to play some tacticsarena at a competitive level. u guys just seem stat bound only playing games that suit ur skill like turtles and making ridiculous threads about people when u dont get ur way. there was no way i was going to surrender or give u a draw i dont play like that if its going to result in a thread like this everytime then so be it.

I would really appreciate it if you followed the generally accepted laws of grammar. It makes understanding what you say a LOT easier.

Meanwhile, how about refuting the facts on the table, instead of trying to discredit us. Sounds like fun, eh?

I'm trying to play this game at a competative level. You're cheating. If you want this game to remain competative, then remove the cheaters. Meanwhile, as dozens of players will tell you, I don't require turtle games often. I've played enough freestyle games so that my stats reflect that as well. I made this thread not simply because my requests weren't fulfilled, but because you cheated. If you'd like to prove me otherwise, then go for it.

[Liquid Swordsman]

All BG members are losers!

Hahahahah!

Also, playing on two accounts isnt cheating.

If you can't handle the game, don't play it monk.

[dirka dirka]

However it is true that once someone beats you, you don't play them again unless you think they got lucky. It happened with me, and NO I am not insulting you.

[dirka dirka]

All BG members are losers!

Hahahahah!
don't be an idiot, I don't say all allstar members are losers just cause their leader has proved to deserve no respect

[Liquid Swordsman]

don't be an idiot, I don't say all allstar members are losers just cause their leader has proved to deserve no respect



:rolleyes:

[monkus]

Monkus the guy beats you, he earns some of your stats, regardless of who he is. :rolleyes: :cool:

But if I lose to crx, I don't deserve to lose the same amount of stats as I would when I lose to a 750 player, otherwise the system's flawed. That's why a draw was appropriate.

[dirka dirka]

:rolleyes:
thank you for not flaming, now lets stop the all of bg sux thing, and if you hate some members, more power to you

[Liquid Swordsman]

They are only numbers monk!

You don't need numbers to prove skill. Allstar beat you fair and square.

[Liquid Swordsman]

thank you for not flaming, now lets stop the all of bg sux thing, and if you hate some members, more power to you


I'm in BG ><

[dirka dirka]

I'm in BG ><
really? that means you can't hate me!! I'm in BG :)

[Jeffery]

I'm in BG ><
Then you must be an assclown. ;)

[Liquid Swordsman]

really? that means you can't hate me!! I'm in BG :)


/leave

Damn, wrong window!

[Cavour]

/leave

Damn, wrong window!
:mad:

[Liquid Swordsman]

Nice neg rep dirka :rolleyes:

[dirka dirka]

lol, that was before I know you were in BG, you can't blame me

[da1n]

But if I lose to crx, I don't deserve to lose the same amount of stats as I would when I lose to a 750 player, otherwise the system's flawed. That's why a draw was appropriate.

You don't deserve anything. You lost. :cool:

[Liquid Swordsman]

lol, that was before I know you were in BG, you can't blame me


Alright, well, I expect a pos rep to me every chance you get! Or else!

[dirka dirka]

Alright, well, I expect a pos rep to me every chance you get! Or else!
lol, I'll consider it

[monkus]

Crx admitted he loses to allstar about half the time. This is understandable, considering their levels of skill. But what if every time crx lost, he lost points as if losing to a player that had 1200 or 1300 stats, instead of 1700. And what if every time he won, allstar lost nothing. Would the stat system continue to work then?

Okay, considering the level of dissent and confusion here, I'm going to lay this out as if it were a normal argument in a formal round of debate:


The argument: Allstar deserves major stat loss, or ban.

Underlying cause: Allstar acted in a way that causes the stat system to lose meaning, where a player's losses are inflated, and his wins don't have the intended double effect.

Warrant: Blah blah blah, this is obvious stuff, allstar used another account and didn't tell me it was him. The loss did not have the intended effect of the system, because I lost stats that were not significant to the person I played.

Impact: The impact of the argument is that allstar messes up the system, because losses and wins aren't recorded accurately. Crx loses to allstar half the time, if allstar uses a 1200 name instead of his own, then crx's stats go into the garbage even though they shouldn't. The same applies here.

Link to proposed changes: People have been banned or have had stat loss for manipulating the system before (I.E. using alternate accounts to raise stats). Anything that negatively affects the stat system warrants changes by administration and/or bans, so this does too.

Significance: No one cares if this is a game or not. Within the context of that game, an object's relevance is only compareable to anothers. I.E., we can do whatever we want to him within the game if we feel it just within that game's context. Once I propose something like taking an arm, where it has real world impact, THEN you can weigh the game's effect on the real world.

Additional facts that bias favor towards my end: I had refused a challenge from allstar earlier, making it obvious I had no desire to play him. He later used another account to get a game from me, which violated my wishes through the use of deceit.

[Cavour]

Ah, get along you two! You have so much in common after all. Like, you're both in BG, and neither of you even acknowledge it in your siggy, etc. >:c *scowl* :wink2:

Edit: Directed at Liquiderer and teh_dirka. >_<

[Jeffery]

Ok, lets all agree to disagree. Not everyone agrees on ethics in the game, and never will.

Arguing about it in the forums accomplishes nothing but hurt feelings. How about a large group hug, and we go back to be nice to newbs.

[343 HeadHunter]

The argument: Allstar deserves major stat loss, or ban.

Additional facts that bias favor towards my end: I had refused a challenge from allstar earlier, making it obvious I had no desire to play him. He later used another account to get a game from me, which violated my wishes through the use of deceit.


First off any punishment for allstar is just dumb, since he didn't break any rules. And secondly, are you saying he violated your wishes? he did something you didn't like, like beating you, if i get beat that is violaing my wishes...should I mate a thread everytime i lose saying someone did something i didn't want?

[Cavour]

Ok, lets all agree to disagree. Not everyone agrees on ethics in the game, and never will.

Arguing about it in the forums accomplishes nothing but hurt feelings. How about a large group hug, and we go back to be nice to newbs.
*pokes Jeffery in the eye*

[monkus]

First off any punishment for allstar is just dumb, since he didn't break any rules. And secondly, are you saying he violated your wishes? he did something you didn't like, like beating you, if i get beat that is violaing my wishes...should I mate a thread everytime i lose saying someone did something i didn't want?

He violated my wishes to not play him, which is something that is 100% my choice. Losing and winning is beyond my control to a degree. Choosing to play someone like that is not.

Meanwhile, I've shown he has broken rules. People who pump their own stats with accounts are banned. Therefore, punishment is used when people manipulate the stat system.

[343 HeadHunter]

I hardly see beating you on another account as manipulating the system...but ok.

[da1n]

Meanwhile, I've shown he has broken rules. People who pump their own stats with accounts are banned. Therefore, punishment is used when people manipulate the stat system.

Woah, you're accusing him of playing himself for stats now? :huh:

[Jeffery]

He violated my wishes to not play him, which is something that is 100% my choice. Losing and winning is beyond my control to a degree. Choosing to play someone like that is not.

Meanwhile, I've shown he has broken rules. People who pump their own stats with accounts are banned. Therefore, punishment is used when people manipulate the stat system.
How is having more than one account cheating? Do you have proof he has ever played his accounts against each other?

[Warcow]

I'd have to say that this thread is a bit overboard. Allstar, you probably should have opted for a draw at least, you were after all not putting up the same risk monkus did in playing with his higher stats. However, this does seem a tad out of proportion, I'd really hate for you guys to shun allstar over this, he isn't a bad guy at all, and while this wasn't exactly his finest moment, it isn't exactly the worst thing in the world. Some times, exceptional players have low stats, and when you play them, you lose lots. I don't think allstar has ever hidden the fact that he uses the Metro156 account. I myself have known that for a long time. Had you asked him if he had another account I am sure he would have told you, and I respect him enough to believe that. I highly doubt you yourself monk have never gone on another account, maybe even a 750 grey, and beaten people. You aren't a 750 grey, and we all know that, but you are just as guilty as allstar if you have done that, I know I have.

You know I love ya both guys, and I'd hate to see bad blood between two genuinely nice guys. Allstar, an apology to Monk would go a long way I am sure, and I'd love to see you guys work this out.

[Cuathon]

monkus. just end the arguement. he doesnt deserve a ban or reset because he did this.
while he shouldn't have played you when you stated you didnt want a game with him this is not half as bad as pumping stats. that happens multiple times and the outcome is sure. here, you had a chance to win.
this is not comparable to some guy playing himself and surrendering in 10 seconds or less to raise his stats quickly.
while a draw would have been in order you cant ban him because he didn't give you one.

[Duffman]

Sometimes public humilation is a harsher punishment then being banned.

[Cuathon]

yeah but many people support him.
it hasnt really humiliated him yet.

[thefreezing]

So Monkus, I'm a cheater too?! :eek: I have more than 1 gold account. :rolleyes:

[Hugh Junit]

yeah but many people support him.
it hasnt really humiliated him yet.


That's because Allstar didn't actually do anything wrong. To even SUGGEST that he should be banned for this behavior, is absurd. If anything, monkus is the one who's public image will suffer from this thread.
He's making way too big a deal out of it.

[The Prophet]

The one getting humiliated is Monkus. That is why he keeps this going, trying to defend his position. It is pretty lame that you don't play someone with 1700+ stat sbut will play someone with 1400+ stats. And then whine because you get beat. Allstar should not have drawed the game. It is even lamer to think he deserves to get banned or reset. That is not cheating and the Mods have said so.

It comes down to that Monkus didn't want to play Allstar, maybe fear of losing. So he decided to play a 1400+ gold and lost. Now mad becasue he lost alot of stats, when stats really don't mean anything :rolleyes: .

[Cuathon]

yeah monkus has been getting a lot of flak lately for his actions.

anyhow i didnt say he deserved it. i just said allstar hasnt been humiliated yet in response to duffs post.

[Moose]

People have scammed through 2 accounts before, this isn't a new subject that just randomly hit you monkus, true Allstar did "morally" do something not nice, it's not really the end of the world...You just lost stats that can eaisly be gained again...and besides that, he's some annoymous user on the net, why get so bent up about someone you'll probably never meet, really, all your doing is making yourself look like a complainer whose acting childish when "things didn't go "your" way". So just drop it, shit happens and theres not to much you can do about it, even xyx had admitted that it's not a "banable" offense and that even he's done it (why I can't imagine). But like I said, your just hurting yourself more and more by standing up for your points.


Moosey

[monkus]

The one getting humiliated is Monkus. That is why he keeps this going, trying to defend his position. It is pretty lame that you don't play someone with 1700+ stat sbut will play someone with 1400+ stats. And then whine because you get beat. Allstar should not have drawed the game. It is even lamer to think he deserves to get banned or reset. That is not cheating and the Mods have said so.

It comes down to that Monkus didn't want to play Allstar, maybe fear of losing. So he decided to play a 1400+ gold and lost. Now mad becasue he lost alot of stats, when stats really don't mean anything :rolleyes: .

I didn't play allstar because I had just played him two days earlier. It has nothing to do with fear of loss, because I had beaten him. I don't play people that often.
Meanwhile, I didn't play a 1400+ gold. I challenged metro, but played allstar. Even worse, I lost stats as if I played the 1400 gold.

I never claimed allstar pit his accounts against one another. I never even knew ANYONE had the password to metro156 except metro himself.

If nothing else, if no other point stands, allstar used deceit to violate my wishes against playing him for a second time in the same weekend. That should not go unpunished.

[Liquid Swordsman]

The argument: Allstar deserves major stat loss, or ban.


Here is the answer: Stop crying like a baby. He beat you and your mad. Asking for a ban on him is pathetic.

[monkus]

Oh for gods sake don't turn this around on me. He's beaten me plenty of times. I have no problem with losing. What annoys me is when he uses someone else's account to play me when I don't want to play him, especially when he's using it to steal my stats to give him a competative advantage.

If there's nothing wrong with that, then I'm definately golding another account, getting it to 1200 or so, then playing all of the top players as often as possible to wipe out their stats. I'll make sure to lose to grays enough to keep it at 1200. Is there any problems with that?

[Godmic18]

Nope. Except it works better as a 900 gold with a name like: 57_oompa_LoOmpa3

[thefreezing]

Oh for gods sake don't turn this around on me. He's beaten me plenty of times. I have no problem with losing. What annoys me is when he uses someone else's account to play me when I don't want to play him, especially when he's using it to steal my stats to give him a competative advantage.

If there's nothing wrong with that, then I'm definately golding another account, getting it to 1200 or so, then playing all of the top players as often as possible to wipe out their stats. I'll make sure to lose to grays enough to keep it at 1200. Is there any problems with that?
Monkus, I've done the same thing except in Army and Banff. :D

[The Prophet]

I had a gold named Zamokil. If I play a 1100+ gold, you can tell if they are a noob or not. I know of a few accounts that are not noobs but have low stats and so I refuse to play them.

My suggestion to you is not to play anyone under 1600.


Edit: Only your clan members are supporting you on this so probably best to let it drop.

[Wayfaerer]

So you declined allstars request but played a 'nobody' named metro which should be free stats? I think you're both guilty of some nubbin' ;)

If he beat you on allstar he would take a marginally larger lead on you than on an alternate account too :p

[Jeffery]

I didn't play allstar because I had just played him two days earlier. It has nothing to do with fear of loss, because I had beaten him. I don't play people that often.
Meanwhile, I didn't play a 1400+ gold. I challenged metro, but played allstar. Even worse, I lost stats as if I played the 1400 gold.

I never claimed allstar pit his accounts against one another. I never even knew ANYONE had the password to metro156 except metro himself.

If nothing else, if no other point stands, allstar used deceit to violate my wishes against playing him for a second time in the same weekend. That should not go unpunished.
Deceipt is not to be respected, but far from cheating. basing your argument on your wish to have him banned or reset is why people are responding negatively to your post.

if you had just stated he did it, and you thought it was dishonest for him to play you with another account after you said you did not wish to play him, and left it at that, the majority would be backing you up right now.

But stat reset and banning is for violations of the TOS. Playing someone, even against their will, is in no way such a violation. It is not even harrassment, since it only happened once.

[FryLock]

Monkus, this is crap. Why are you so bent out of shape about this? It is ridiculous. Look man...you can huff and puff all you want about not having wanted to play allstar, but come on...I'm in the same stat position as you, and I know there are days when I'm not feeling too keen on my game or something, and I'd rather play an "easier" game against a 1400 than butt heads with a 1600. If I lose to the 1400, I lose more points than to the 1600, but big deal...it was my choice to play, and I'll stand by the consequences. You should do the same.

Life isn't fair. And in my limited experience, crying about it rarely helps matters. Stop embarassing yourself while you still have some respect left. I've never seen anyone react to a loss this way, not even Botts when I purposely rushed his turtles back in the olden days. :D

[Moose]

10 Dollars on Juila locking this within the next 4 hours



Moosey

[theburning]

If only everyone knew all of my secret gold account names. :cool2:

So the situation here is that monkus challenged some gold he hadn't heard of and found out in-game that it was allstar?

I don't really see a huge problem with this. If it was allstars other account asking monkus for another game, then yeah! But otherwise not really? I mean, allstar had just asked monkus for a game on his regular account, hadn't he? So it wasn't as if he didn't try.
I think if it had been me I might have just told monkus who I was, but if he was trying to not let people know who he was, I understand.

I know the pains of asking for a game and never getting one. On GL I think only 2 of the higher ranked people on GL ever agreed to play me. I always got the same excuse "you're better than 1300 so it's not fair." Warcow and zzzaacckk were the only two who ever said ok.

[Jeffery]

10 Dollars on Juila locking this within the next 4 hours



Moosey
Since she has posted, and since posted, after your bet, you better convince her to take half to do it, or you will lose.

[allstarGL]

Oh for gods sake don't turn this around on me. He's beaten me plenty of times. I have no problem with losing. What annoys me is when he uses someone else's account to play me when I don't want to play him, especially when he's using it to steal my stats to give him a competative advantage.

If there's nothing wrong with that, then I'm definately golding another account, getting it to 1200 or so, then playing all of the top players as often as possible to wipe out their stats. I'll make sure to lose to grays enough to keep it at 1200. Is there any problems with that?

I wasnt even after your stats. i asked every gold if they would play me when i was on my allstar account they all said no. i switched to metro asked if ne gold over 1100 wanted to play u were the only one to say nething asking for a turtle game. i declined at first wanting to play a freestyle asked if negolds would freestyle me. i got no replies then i said ok to your turtle game. i simply just wanted to play and u were the only person willing to play.

[Glamdring]

Ok... while I definitely agree this was a bum deal for you, monkus... have you considered that maybe his motive wasn't to take your stats away? Maybe he just wanted a game, and you were the only one who would give it to him.

Just let it go... it's not worth it.

[Warcow]

Ok... while I definitely agree this was a bum deal for you, monkus... have you considered that maybe his motive wasn't to take your stats away? Maybe he just wanted a game, and you were the only one who would give it to him.

Just let it go... it's not worth it.
Pretty much exactly what I was thinking, this thing needs to die, you guys should make amends, you are both really cool guys.

[allstarGL]

Pretty much exactly what I was thinking, this thing needs to die, you guys should make amends, you are both really cool guys.

i find it hard to make amends with some1 who rallies to have me banned with a few clanmates over something as ridiculous as this. I do agree that this needs to die ive said my peice and im pretty sure monkus has said his.