chaoscaster

[stryker]

Chaoscaster

Hp:40
Blocking:25%,12% from sides
Recovery: 2 turns, 3 turns when dark vortex used
Attack Range: same as pyromancer
Attack power: 12, unblockable
Armor: 0


Description: the Chaoscaster attacks with the same distance as a pyromancer but only the middle square is attacked. The special ability, which causes him to wait an extra turn, allows the chaoscaster to put a dark hole or vortex underneath one unit sucking it in and spitting it out on any square the player chooses. this doesnt hurt the unit, it just replaces it. This can be used on anything including wards. The chaoscaster cannot use the dark vortex twice in a row even after he recovers.

once again please comment on my idea

[Hellblazer]

The unit sounds good. I think the only thing that needs a little bit of work because it's a bit overpowerful is the vortex attack. You can basically move a pyro in front of the lightning ward and kill it. Same thing goes for the dmw. Maybe there should be a range to it.
Yeah! The attack can move the unit anywhere in that unit's range!
Final Thoughts: Nice. I'll send you a banner. :)

[stryker]

i was thinking of having it be in the units range, but i tried this and waited to see if anyone would say anything, EDIT: how am i gonna get this banner from you

[Mithrandir]

I'm disappointed. This is a very bad idea, it would be terrible for game tactics. You could move a lightning ward to some corner somewhere where it would be totally ineffective. You could move an enemy pyro in your own lightning ward's range. No no no. Bad, bad, bad idea.

Hopefully the next one will be better.

[Hellblazer]

i was thinking of having it be in the units range, but i tried this and waited to see if anyone would say anything, EDIT: how am i gonna get this banner from you
Ceck your pm's. The latest one has your banner in it.

EDIT: Mith, did you check the little edit me and stryker did? We said maybe a unit can only be warped within it's movement range.

[stryker]

after second thought u can only move the unit in the unit u sucked up's range. Well i guess that still wouldn't change much but ill keep thinkin

[Mithrandir]

Well naturally the change makes it better but still not good. There is only one unit I've ever seen that involves moving an opponent's units around that I actually liked and it was the Grapnel Warrior.

[stryker]

i got your banner hellblazer thanks, now how do i get it on to my sig.

[Hellblazer]

Put it out on your desktop, go to imageshack.us (on a separate screen of the internet) and host it on there. Once it's hosted, highlight the first line (with the big URL in brackets) and copy it.
After that, go to User CP on the forums and then go to Edit Signature. Paste the banner URL thing in the box.

[stryker]

thanks alot, i like spaceman spiff, he's wicked!!!!, like Green Day

[Mithrandir]

Spaceman Spiff isn't wicked, he's a good guy. :bigsmile:

[Lonely Tylenol]

Moving units within their range solves the LW problem very well (since no Ward moves). I made sure to take this into account with my Grapnel Warrior anyway. (On another note, thanks, Mith, for complimenting the GW. Much appreciated.)

All in all, with the modifications, not too bad a unit. One thing that has to be taken into account that with a range of 3, high recovery, and a fragile unit (DMW/Dragon or the equivalent would die regardless of heal) make this unit somewhat difficult to be used. While there is OBVIOUS abuse potential in moving someone's Cleric, for instance, you'd have to be deep within enemy lines to effectively move it (especially prevalent in gold turtles), and even then, unless you had the forces to back an assault, you'd just be digging your own grave. With that in mind, there's not much to using this as an offensive unit, which puts it soundly in the turtle category.

EDIT: Just for fun. :)

[Hellblazer]

thanks alot, i like spaceman spiff, he's wicked!!!!, like Green Day
W00T!

EDIT: check your pm's again...

[Mithrandir]

I'm not gonna get tired of complimenting the Grapnel Warrior anytime soon. In my opinion it is the only truly great unit on these forums (that I've seen) besides my Minelayer. That is based on my own opinion about how units should be though. I like tactical units the most by far and those two are the only really good tactical units that are balanced. :)

Edit: One could argue I should shut up about the GW so the Minelayer will get more votes but I'm not political enough. I'd be disappointed for the Minelayer to lose to anything else (though I think it should win).

[Cross Punisher]

One could also argue that neither the Grapnel Warrior nor the Minelayer is practical enough to be good units. I would like neither LT or Mith to be offended by this, but I believe it must be said.
:sorry:

Grapnel Warrior: Less HP, armor, recovery, and movement, and higher attack and range than a dragon tyrant and also only cost one unit. While most units are considered overpowered for being able to move units within a range of 4, this one has a range of 5, then damage the unit for 10, considers the unit paralyzed, then damages the unit again for 20. The two things that help balance this out are the range is a straight line and it uses LOS. Still all in all it requires the same tactics one would need for a Frost Golem, not a chanty, wisp, or furgon.

P.S. - LT remember that discussion we had about which would win: a Grapnel Warrior or a Dragon Tyrant. I can't believe we didn't figure this out. The Grapnel Warrior wins because once it attacks the Dragon Tyrant is considered "Paralyzed." I don't know how we missed that.

Minelayer: What you call outwitting I call estimated guessing. The tactical uses of this unit go down as the battle goes on. There are 109 squares on the game board. That equals to about a .009 chance of success with 1 mine. Of course the chances are much higher than that as you would hopefully lay the mind somewhere strategic, but still no matter how much the unit is analyzed it's simply trying to predict where your opponent will move. If you guess right you take out a large 20 damage and then it's your turn to most likely kill the unit. You guess wrong and you've just wasted a turn and you can later hope the opponent will step on the mine when you could have just regularally attacked the unit. Like I said this unit is tactical in the beginning when most LOS is blocked, but in the open field your just guessing with, "Which side will he attack me from?" I see a unit like this being used more of a threat than actually using it like one often does with a LW: Place it in a place you know your opponent wants to move too, and now they must waste turns avoiding that square. Of course it also involves your opponent remember how many mines you've laid down, the general region their in, etc. One thing I do like about this unit is that it can't win the battle for you. If I get down to my 1 HP cleric vs. your minelayer I'll just not move and the match will end in a draw. I have long since grew tired of the competition of winning and losing, and prefer to end in stalemates now.

In conclusion both units are nice, and while I feel that the Minelayer would need more strategy to use than the Grapnel Warrior, but the Grapnel Warrior would be far more of a less risky bet in battle. I don't remember if either of you received a +rep from me on these unit, but I have recently not passed around a lot of rep.

I felt possessed to post this after this statement
I'm not gonna get tired of complimenting the Grapnel Warrior anytime soon. In my opinion it is the only truly great unit on these forums (that I've seen) besides my Minelayer. That is based on my own opinion about how units should be though. I like tactical units the most by far and those two are the only really good tactical units that are balanced.

[Monkey D]

Grapnel Warrior: Less HP, armor, recovery, and movement, and higher attack and range than a dragon tyrant and also only cost one unit. While most units are considered overpowered for being able to move units within a range of 4, this one has a range of 5, then damage the unit for 10, considers the unit paralyzed, then damages the unit again for 20. The two things that help balance this out are the range is a straight line and it uses LOS. Still all in all it requires the same tactics one would need for a Frost Golem, not a chanty, wisp, or furgon.

There are many things that require noting in this case. Most units are considered overpowered for moving a unit within a range of four squares in any direction from the starting point. My unit can only move a unit UP to four spaces (four spaces, plus the fifth that the unit takes up), in a straight line, with LoS, and since it is a gradual effect, it can be broken. If you want to move any unit around in any direction other than straight towards you, you have to reposition the Grapnel Warrior accordingly, whereas the only thing that is required to move the enemy's unit in any direction is to have it within the initial attack range.

About the damage--while it is true that this unit does up to 30 unblockable damage (20 blockable if the opponent is within 1 square, 10 unblockable from the Grapnel), it also requires nothing attacking the rope or the target for two turns, instead of a direct attack (circa Dragon Tyrant).

P.S. - LT remember that discussion we had about which would win: a Grapnel Warrior or a Dragon Tyrant. I can't believe we didn't figure this out. The Grapnel Warrior wins because once it attacks the Dragon Tyrant is considered "Paralyzed." I don't know how we missed that.


No, it is considered "Paralyzed" until it, or the rope, is attacked. This includes the secondary 20 damage the Grapnel Warrior can do. So the DT can attack as soon as the Grapnel is done. The paralyzation effect is completely temporary and lasts, at most, one attack against the targetted unit (since attacking any space in the LoS also breaks the effect)--considering the gradual draw-in effect of the Grapnel Warrior, this is, AT MOST, two turns.

EDIT: Oh, mother of... I forgot to change the user account. This is Tylenol! Direct all reps, pos and neg, towards him.

[Cross Punisher]

No, it is considered "Paralyzed" until it, or the rope, is attacked. This includes the secondary 20 damage the Grapnel Warrior can do. So the DT can attack as soon as the Grapnel is done. The paralyzation effect is completely temporary and lasts, at most, one attack against the targetted unit (since attacking any space in the LoS also breaks the effect)--considering the gradual draw-in effect of the Grapnel Warrior, this is, AT MOST, two turns.
You must be forgetting what must happen for you to win the game.
Battle Rules

Win - by destroying or paralyzing all of your opponent's mobile units, OR if your opponent Surrenders.


Your Unit description for the Grapnel Warrior:
Attack: The Grapnel Warrior's initial attack has a reach of five spaces in a straight line (LoS applied). The Grapnel Warrior throws the grapnel at the target, ensnaring them in rope and hooks. The hooks do 10 initial damage to the target, and after the hooks take effect the targeted unit is considered paralyzed; the unit cannot move, attack, or block. From that point on, the unit is drawn one space closer to the Grapnel Warrior until it is one space away, at which point the Grapnel Warrior will attack the target for 20 damage. (Both the hook and the second attack are unblockable; the hook because of its trapping nature, and the second attack because the opponent is already trapped.)
So If it's just the Grapnel Warrior vs. a Dragon Tyrant and I ensnare the dragon I win even though the paralyzation is temporary because I have succeeded in destroying OR paralyzing all of my opponent's mobile units.

And why should you get rep... before me. Please direct only positive rep towards me. LT can have the negative.
:cool: :p :yes3:
jk

[Lonely Tylenol]

So If it's just the Grapnel Warrior vs. a Dragon Tyrant and I ensnare the dragon I win even though the paralyzation is temporary because I have succeeded in destroying OR paralyzing all of my opponent's mobile units.

Blast.

Well... Umm... Well now, who'd be stupid enough to leave this to be an endgame unit anyway?! :huh:

Okay, so there are things that need tweaking.... What I meant by considered paralyzed was it couldn't move, block or act until it was broken.... I never thought of the ramifications of having it actually paralyze people.

[Cross Punisher]

Yeah I knew what you meant because... Well I don't know how I knew but still.

Well... Umm... Well now, who'd be stupid enough to leave this to be an endgame unit anyway?!
Or do you mean smart enough. This unit would go down with the chanty and frost golem as ULTIMATE endgame unit. That is until you change the word paralyze.

[Lonely Tylenol]

Or do you mean smart enough. This unit would go down with the chanty and frost golem as ULTIMATE endgame unit. That is until you change the word paralyze.

Perhaps I should rephrase the previous statement....

Who would be stupid enough to allow their enemy to keep this as an endgame unit?!

[Mithrandir]

“One could also argue that neither the Grapnel Warrior nor the Minelayer is practical enough to be good units. I would like neither LT or Mith to be offended by this, but I believe it must be said.”

Eh, I’m not offended. I know not everyone is a big fan of these units like I am, it just goes with what your perspective is on what a good unit needs. I talked about this a lot on the Minelayer thread. The way I see the game, we need tactical units rather than other types of units. Some people disagree about that much, that’s fine.

As to your critique, what you seem to think is a liability is my favorite part of the unit. If you stink at outwitting your opponent, you will suck with the unit yet if you are good at it you will tear your opponent to shreds. That’s what makes it hard to use and that’s why it is so interesting (to me anyway).