Furgon-How is he best utilized?

[wr4th4]

I have searched and searched, and cannot find a sound Furgon strat posted anywhere on these boards. Most of the results found concern what people would like to see added to Furgy's stats, attributes, and other various unrealistic possibilities. I did find a very entertaining thread about anti-rushes, whereas the latter half of the thread was basically hijacked by Lonely Tylenol's bantering with FryLock and Bottle. However, it was a nice read, but still did not contain the information I am searching for. It's basic use is known to me, using it's shrubs to contain units, and also to funnel them where they could potentially be stopped and beaten to the users' leisure. It is also useful for blocking potential LOS shots, which I think is very nice. However, the actual placement and movement protocol for the Furgon are barely mentioned, and this is where I get confused. I have tried a few times to use the Furgon in my setup, but cannot seem to use him to my advantage as well as I think I should be. Any helpful hints would be appreciated. I will continue my search as I wait for an answer to my post.

[emerald slasher]

monkus has an excellent furgy guide but tb has put it under the faq yet

[wr4th4]

emerald slasher-

Yes, I did read the post where Monkus mentioned his FAQ....which is why I know that there are viable Furgon strategies out there. I only wish to be further enlightened to the possibilities that can be accomplished through advanced usage of the lovable forest creature. Thank you for your information!

[monkus]

There are a TON of strategies, and as I said, I have a FAQ coming up. Serigy had me send it to realist, so we'll see if it can get processed.

[Lonely Tylenol]

I did find a very entertaining thread about anti-rushes, whereas the latter half of the thread was basically hijacked by Lonely Tylenol's bantering with FryLock and Bottle.

:mad: I don't hijack threads, and my speech is NOT banter.

I best utilize the Furgon by killing my enemies' Scouts, then creating a shrub wall and picking off my enemies' units from afar. If your enemy has no long range attackers or Mud Golem, then the Furgon/Scout combo is EXTREMELY efficient because it creates a shrub based fortress around your units from which your Scouts can damage enemy units without taking serious damage themselves.

[emerald slasher]

lol i dont have much to say but the furgy frost combo is unbeatable once u take out the scouts and mud of your opponents.lheres my form i need some input on the furgy placement anyway: [img=http://img94.exs.cx/img94/6375/turt9ao.th.gif] (http://img94.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img94&image=turt9ao.gif)

[Wayfaerer]

the furgy frost combo is unbeatable once u take out the scouts and mud of your opponents.

No it's not, and an unstoned frost will die a lot quicker than 3 stoned units :rolleyes:

[Lonely Tylenol]

No it's not, and an unstoned frost will die a lot quicker than 3 stoned units

Furgon/Frost combo isn't unbeatable, but the Frost sure makes the Furgon/Scout combo a lot easier. (Which is why I started using Frost Golems...)

[emerald slasher]

everytime ive faced it or used it ive had success...o well point is its a good strategy

[wr4th4]

I don't hijack threads, and my speech is NOT banter.

My apologies, hijack was perhaps the wrong word to use. But, towards the end of that thread, you even stated that you were in a 'good mood', and that you were having fun with the 'arguments'. Considering that you were 'defending a concept' and not a defenite strategy, as was the main goal of the thread starter, I would classify that as bantering. But, I intended no harm, and in fact enjoy a little bantering myself and will withdraw that portion of my previous post and hope that you will forgive my ignorance.

I thank you for including a strategy even though I apparently stepped on your toes, and it seems you know what you are talking about. This will go farther in teaching me in the ways of the Furgon. Thank you! :D

[emerald slasher]

it would also be nice to see a wisp strategy

[Lonely Tylenol]

that you were 'defending a concept' and not a defenite strategy, as was the main goal of the thread starter, I would classify that as bantering.

Ah, but behind every strategy, there is a concept that drives it. :cool: To create a strategy void of strategic concept is to create a sandwich without bread. If you could find a proper concept that would be largely successful against rushes, then the form itself would come soon enough.

Although admittedly, at that time, I was just trying to cover my tracks and hide the fact that my proposed form sucked eggs. :bigsmile: Hahah, just kidding.

The same goes for the Scout/Furgon combo I just mentioned... It is not a definitive form, it is just a strategic concept I use against opposite side turtles/enemy rushes. The actual form behind it can vary, as long as you have two Scouts, a Furgon, and know how to use them.

EDIT: Actually, I was wrong, the Scout/Furgon combo is a strategy, not a concept of one. Regardless, that's my biggest use for a Furgon. (Problem is high blockers like Knights, which is where the Frost Golem helps.)

EDIT II: As to actual placement, I have my Furgon placed one space away from my Cleric, as well as my Frost Golem, so the standard Wisp placement in some rushes is ineffective.

[Krome]

I have searched and searched, and cannot find a sound Furgon strat posted anywhere on these boards. Most of the results found concern what people would like to see added to Furgy's stats, attributes, and other various unrealistic possibilities. I did find a very entertaining thread about anti-rushes, whereas the latter half of the thread was basically hijacked by Lonely Tylenol's bantering with FryLock and Bottle. However, it was a nice read, but still did not contain the information I am searching for. It's basic use is known to me, using it's shrubs to contain units, and also to funnel them where they could potentially be stopped and beaten to the users' leisure. It is also useful for blocking potential LOS shots, which I think is very nice. However, the actual placement and movement protocol for the Furgon are barely mentioned, and this is where I get confused. I have tried a few times to use the Furgon in my setup, but cannot seem to use him to my advantage as well as I think I should be. Any helpful hints would be appreciated. I will continue my search as I wait for an answer to my post.

Stop trying to use 10 character words all the time, its just stupid.

antidisisstablishmentarianism (the longest english word and hardest to spell).

[wr4th4]

Stop trying to use 10 character words all the time, its just stupid.


*laugh* First of all, I'm not trying to use ten character words, they come naturally to me. I am a verbal person by nature and use my vocabulary as an advantage. It helps me get my point across in an intelligent manner, and is well received by most save for the few who cannot seem to comprehend what I'm saying, i.e., you. If you truly believe having a firm grasp on the English language confirms stupidity, well then you sir, are severely misinformed. Should I have posted this in 'l337' for you? :rolleyes:


Again, thank you everyone else, who has provided input into my question. It is truly appreciated.

[monkus]

It's fine to use more advanced vocabulary, but try to refine from turning your posts into large masses of words. Using spacing and extra paragraphs helps people read your post more comfortably.

With that said, just keep in mind that most units can only attack 1 unit at a time, at max 2 or 3, aside from a few exceptions. Furthermore, they have 1-3 wait time each, so the furgon, which makes 5 shrubs at once, creates a huge and annoying barrier for any aggressive player.

That's simply an introduction to the power of the furgon.

[FryLock]

pneumonoultramicroscopicsilicovolcanoconiosis.

A lung disease affecting miners.

[Krome]

*laugh* First of all, I'm not trying to use ten character words, they come naturally to me. I am a verbal person by nature and use my vocabulary as an advantage. It helps me get my point across in an intelligent manner, and is well received by most save for the few who cannot seem to comprehend what I'm saying, i.e., you. If you truly believe having a firm grasp on the English language confirms stupidity, well then you sir, are severely misinformed. Should I have posted this in 'l337' for you? :rolleyes:


Again, thank you everyone else, who has provided input into my question. It is truly appreciated.

It came out blue.

[Cavour]

antidisisstablishmentarianism (the longest english word and hardest to spell).
No it's not, and no it's not. You also spelled it wrong. Nah, I take that back, you actually butchered the actual spelling. That's more accurate. :p

[wr4th4]

It's fine to use more advanced vocabulary, but try to refine from turning your posts into large masses of words. Using spacing and extra paragraphs helps people read your post more comfortably.

Ahh!! Well, why didn't he say so?! That's a horse of a different color....my apologies. If that is the problem, I will try and be more mindful of that in the future.

In regards to the Furgon, I did use him quite effectively last night, and I could not beleive how nice it was to have him around. Furgy rarely moved, and yet kept my opposition neatly tucked where I wanted them. Thank you for your input Monkus, I hear you're the man to talk about in regards to the Furgon, among other things, :cool:

[Cavour]

Thank you for your input Monkus, I hear you're the man to talk about in regards to the Furgon, among other things, :cool:
Ah, so you must've heard that I'm the man to talk to about the ladies? Among other things... :cool:

[wr4th4]

But of course, Cavour, I was just about to PM you and ask about what I can do to convince my girl to shave her armpits.... :) She just won't get with the times!!

[Cavour]

But of course, Cavour, I was just about to PM you and ask about what I can do to convince my girl to shave her armpits.... :) She just won't get with the times!!
Yeah, that's a hairy situation. *rimshot*

[Tag Captain]

pneumonoultramicroscopicsilicovolcanoconiosis.

A lung disease affecting miners.
by the *Cunning Linguist*.

Now, many have long seen me (Bottle) as the master of the furgon on these servers, and while I would dispute that (there are players who are my equal, certainly), I don't mind sharing what I do know with you, since you seem to be an intellectual individual, which is all too rare on the forums nowadays.

First thing to realise is that furgons have a twofold use; an aggressive(ish) one and a defensive one. The defensive one is for use in a rush/turtle or rush/defensive form battle, which is always a matter of luck and power in any case, and requires very few tactics other than batter your way through as quickly as you can (as the rusher) and hold off for as long as possible and pick off any exposed, injured units (the defender). In this scenario, furgon tactics stretch no further than a) try to kill the muddie quickly (often sacrificing your dragon makes them forget about defending the mud, which is an exchange I'd be willing to make if I'm being rushed); b) furgon repeatedly while dfending your remaining damage units; c) once secure, attempt to attack yourself. Pretty basic, and anyone can do it. Of course, even the best turtler cannot beat a rusher, even with a furgon, because they won't waste their mud until they are sure of victory after the shrubs are broken.

Now onto part 2, the more tactical part. Turtle vs. turtle battles, especially opposite sides, are possibly the most tactical form of the game as it stands (except maybe for opp side grey battles). Now, the first thing to realise is that nothing, NOTHING, will hold off armored dragon, muddie, and 2 scouts. It's a fact (unless the attacker is inept). So is it a good idea to immediately furgy up and try to hold them off? No. Make sure you're the one on the attack.

The main idea here is to prioritise your targets. I separate them into A, B and C categories. A categories are units such as frosties, muddies, and clerics, the loss of which will severely cripple the enemy's ability to defend against your continued attack or from attacking themselves. B units are ones that can slow down or defeat your attack, such as dragons, scouts, and wisp. C units are support units, such as stoney, furgy, and knight (although knight can also be a B unit if your scouts are wandering near him).

Obviously, go for the A units first. If you take out your opponent's frost, that frees up both scouts to attack as they please, without worrying about being frozen and unable to snipe the offending frost. If you take out their cleric next (or first if you can), all damage from then on is permanent (obviously), making the muddie the king of the field. And finally, kill the muddie before you retreat, so that you can hide behind your shrub wall without fear.

It's a good idea to distract the opponent by going for a B unit first, forcing them to waste a heal or retreat, before launching your actual attack on an A unit. Breaking stone focus is a B priority too.

I commonly exchange my dragon and maybe a scout or mud for these 3 critical units. After they are destroyed, start retreating, and put up your shrub wall only now you're retreating. If the enemy attacks, they will be frozen and sniped, without being able to be healed or have the focus broken easily. If they defend, you heal up, and return to attacking, this time from range. the damage you deal can't be healed; damage they deal can. You can simply outlast them.

This is where furgon tactics (at last) come in. At this point, a typical enemy will have 2 scouts, dragon, stoney, knight, and maybe a furgy or second knight left. The furgy is irrelevant; it will simply box the enemy into a space he cannot escape from. (You can use your own furgy for this if you feel confident.) The rest makes a potent attacking force, except against a solid furgon wall. If you've lost a unit, I recommend armoring your frostie and remaining attackers if you have time. Try and draw in an enemy, leave your frost on the back row unless absolutely necessary (no trickshots there), and keep reinforcing any weak spots in the wall. All the time, take snipeshots at enemy scouts looking for a way in, even if you only have front shots available.

Having dealt damage to the dragon earlier (maybe while retreating) becomes important, because that is what will kill you if anything can. Tempt it over the top if you can, and freeze where the scouts will take time to get an LOS shot. Keep sniping it until it dies. Don't move your frostie, because then its recovery time is 1, it takes 13 damage, and never lets the dragon go. Use the furgy to block LOS shots.

The only way you can lose now is a focused attack on one section of the wall. To deal with this, you have to slow the enemy down. Keep shrubbing the places they attack, and take potshots with your scout when not shrubbing. Freeze if possible. This is mainly common sense, and depends on the situation.

In summary, the furgon is an excellent defensive tool, but only if:

a) the enemy cleric is dead;
b) the enemy mud is dead;
c) the enemy frost is dead;
d) you have a frost and scout(s) left.

Otherwise, it just slows down an inevitable loss.

There are other tactics to the furgy, including the infamous wisp/furgy around poisoned unit combo, but those are most dependant on in-game position.

[Lonely Tylenol]

antidisisstablishmentarianism (the longest english word and hardest to spell).

That's antidisestablishmentarianism to you, sir.

And Frylock, that's coneosis, but the rest you got right.

...Sorry, guys, couldn't resist... Been a bit of a spelling and grammar freak since I was a little child.

Monkus' point about the Furgon barriers is also a good point. The only units that can effectively counter a Furgon move for move are the Mud Golem and the Pyromancer, and once these units are eliminated, the Furgon becomes a very effective "wall" tool, or even a means with which to funnel your opponent's units into a death trap.

[monkus]

Bots, as much as I respect you, I disagree with your conclusion, but most of your points are true.

You don't need to kill a critical unit to make use of the furgon. I've won many games by isolating and taking out each of my opponent's units, which makes heavy use of the furgon, but doesn't require taking out a unit through aggressive actions.

[Wolfman]

Now, the first thing to realise is that nothing, NOTHING, will hold off armored dragon, muddie, and 2 scouts. It's a fact (unless the attacker is inept). So is it a good idea to immediately furgy up and try to hold them off? No. Make sure you're the one on the attack.


lol.... r u saying that i am inept?!

hehehehe

word on what u said bot.... any ppl hv armored dragon, muddy n 2 scouts in their striking range to their category A units.... they can say bye to their category A units....

wolfy

[monkus]

Now, the first thing to realise is that nothing, NOTHING, will hold off armored dragon, muddie, and 2 scouts. It's a fact (unless the attacker is inept). So is it a good idea to immediately furgy up and try to hold them off? No. Make sure you're the one on the attack.

I must've missed this line, because I TOTALLY disagree with it. It's not impossible to hold these attackers off from even the best of attackers. You simply need to play the game right, and make use of the furgon. Focus your attacks on the most dangerous unit, the muddy, and it's not impossible. I wouldn't advise giving your opponent total aggressive privileges, but there's nothing wrong with going defensive.

[Lonely Tylenol]

Huh. I missed that too.

Solution to that is easy.

1. Shrub up, draw fire of Mud Golem.

2. Re shrub and paralyze Mud Golem.

3. Dismantle Mud Golem; be wary of Scouts.

4. When Mud Golem is dismantled, go for one or both Scouts.

You can even reverse steps 2 and 4 if you're good enough at it.

With a Furgon, the Mud Golem is the biggest threat, regardless of the strategy, if you plan on utilizing it. Thus, if a Mud Golem is ever within striking range of your Shrubs, make sure you have a plan to kill it.

I was going to reply to Wolfman when I saw what he said, but noticed Bottle's post.

I'm not going to go into logistics, but simply explain that if you handle each enemy unit individually, instead of dividing your fire on the attackers, you CAN take them down.

[emerald slasher]

pneumonoultramicroscopicsilicovolcanoconiosis.

A lung disease affecting miners.

2 things..u spelled it wrong... and it is actually a desease to the lungs by living near a volcanic area (notice the volcano in there ;))

bot i thought ur strtegy guide on the furgy/stony was good i didnt really disagree with anything (though im mildly new to turtling)

[Wolfman]

It's not impossible to hold these attackers off from even the best of attackers. You simply need to play the game right, and make use of the furgon. Focus your attacks on the most dangerous unit, the muddy, and it's not impossible. I wouldn't advise giving your opponent total aggressive privileges, but there's nothing wrong with going defensive.

very interesting..... btw.... what my experience tells me in a situation like that.... most of the time the muddy is used as a shrub wall breaker or a distractor......

let me rephase it..... under the attack of 2 scouts, muddy n dragon..... mostly i will watch the scouts, then dragon... then muddy... cuz muddy normally is used to finish off units....cuz if the ppl who send muddy in first...will get his opponent shrub n freeze the muddy, hence, no more shrub-wall breaker.

wolfy

[wr4th4]

Ack, that is a lot of information Bottle! Thank you, and to Monkus and Lonely Tylenol (banterer that he is, :) ) as well. I had not previously thought of utilizing the Furgon for rushing purposes, but that sounds like a truly viable option. I am sure that a more capable player would be able to handle an armored dragon, muddie, and 2 scouts, but I think that caution seems to be my best friend at this point. I still do not understand how it is that sacrificing a unit would be to my advantage, but see above statement about more capable players. :)