11 Years Ago

[arendt]

11 years ago this month, a terrible event began. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/panorama/rwanda/default.stm)
Q:What is the most significant thing to understand about the 1994 genocide in Rwanda?

A: In Rwanda, in the course of 100 days in the spring and early summer of 1994, 800,000 people were put to death in the most unambiguous case of state-sponsored genocide in an attempt to exterminate a category of humanity, a people, since the Nazi Holocaust of the Jews of Europe.

... What distinguishes Rwanda is a clear, programmatic effort to eliminate everybody in the Tutsi minority group because they were Tutsis. The logic was to kill everybody. Not to allow anybody to get away. Not to allow anybody to continue. And the logic, as Rwandans call it, the genocidal logic, was very much akin to that of an ideology very similar to that of the Nazism vis-à-vis the Jews in Europe, which is all of them must be gotten rid of to purify in a sense the people. There's a utopian element in genocide that's perplexing. But it is an effort to create community in the most strict sense of "us versus them," by literally eliminating them and bonding all of us in complicity, in the course of that elimination. The idea was that all Hutus should participate in killing of Tutsis. And there have been cases of mass political murder, there have been cases of massacres and genocidal massacres, but never a country and a society so completely and totally convulsed by an effort at pure, unambiguous genocide since the end of World War II, since the passage of the Genocide Convention by the United Nations in the aftermath of the Holocaust.

From Q&A (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/evil/interviews/gourevitch.html) with Philip Gourevitch, author of We Wish to Inform you that Tomorrow We will be Killed with our Families. (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0312243359/103-8444439-2860606?v=glance)

[Moose]

...Not another one....

[Hellblazer]

Not more deaths.... :dry:
:*diablo:

[Wayfaerer]

Is that what that Hotel Rwanda movie's all about?

[arendt]

Yes. The Hotel manager appears in We Wish to Inform You.

[Realist]

The world is a pretty horrible place outside of our superficial Western world.

[Jeffery]

We discussed this at somewhat length a while back. And yes, those living in the US and whining about how hard their life is really should go live in some of the less friendly places on earth.

[Iceage Heatwave]

HellBlazer, I understand your young an immature. I am too, but edit that right now or I will hate you till the grave and neg you every chance I get.

[CRX687]

The world is a pretty horrible place outside of our superficial Western world.

And these threads just prove how superficial westerners are...

why don't we concentrate more on the deaths we can prevent... that are right at home before criticizing actions of people in the past?

[Jeffery]

What is superficial about acknowledging and talking about atrocities that happened, and in some cases continue to happen, in other places of the world?

Seems more superficial to ignore it.

[CRX687]

What is superficial about acknowledging and talking about atrocities that happened, and in some cases continue to happen, in other places of the world?

Seems more superficial to ignore it.

Seems superficial to focus and only mention the obvious atrocities abroad when many more people die from other, much more easily prevented hazards at home that simply go unnoticed and unconcerned.

[Realist]

What is superficial about acknowledging and talking about atrocities that happened, and in some cases continue to happen, in other places of the world?

Seems more superficial to ignore it.

Yes...thats what I'm referring to.

We're quite content in our cozy little cities...in our comfortable temperature-controlled homes with their oh so convenient televisions and computers and internet and toaster ovens....

We've constructed a cozy little comfort culture here in this Western world...where we frolic in our sheilded, plasticated wonderworld of music and modern technology and schools and work and jobs and clothes and cars and all those niftly little toy gadgets we carry around to relieve our incessant boredom and bottled up agression...the news from outside drones so loudly that we've learned to ignore it, its hums are sometimes even soothing in a way, we've learned to sleep to it.

The news is all bad and its all the same, so why pay attention this time? Turn off that depressing thing, football is way more interesting. Want to help the world? Yeah, I'm a good person, I made quite a bit at work these days defending my clients from this law and that, I'll give a few hundred to feed starving kids in Africa and sleep better at night for it.

The world is basically divided 20/80...around 20% live in industrialized, modern, relatively ok places and 80% live in hellish horrors. We in the 20 have constructed a a plastic sheild over our plastic home...we know whats happening outside, we care about whats happening outside, enough to rent a few movies about it or turn on the tv or get a newpaper delivery or even send in a bit of happy money to those Poor Starving Kids (ooh, isn't that so sad? its just so depressing. ive got an idea, lets start one of those charity bake sales to save these kids! ooh, fun! then we get to feel happy about helping Other People and at the same time eat lots of yummy food. and i just loooove cooking! i cant wait!), but our home is just too too comfortable to actually walk out of it to enter the real world, and our overprotective parents' constant warnings about Terrorism Hatred War Violence Anti-Americanism (or Anti-Westernism) don't serve as much encouragement.

For most of us, it seems, and I include myself in this group, it is just too easy to live the fun life at home in this grand illusion we've built around ourselves. Everyone else is doing it, after all, so why shouldn't I? Sure, I'll continue to complain about it, sure, I'll continue to read about it, I might even donate some large sums of money to those truly helpful charity organizations once I make it rich and buy a nice large house in the suburbs with good schools and good shopping malls and a nice view from the windows and a really fast internet connection and a fancy car and so on, but will I actually do anything real about it? Will anyone? Will the condition of the world actually change significantly in my lifetime? Probably not.

So I guess we're left to these very well-meaning forum threads and news reports and charity bake sales and flyers and walkathons. And hundreds of thousands die in Darfur just as they died a decade ago in Rwanda and earlier in Cambodia and etc. and etc. and etc. and etc. again and again and again and again and probably a whole bunch of time in my own lifetime as well. Oh well. Life under the plastic sun is pretty fun.

[Iceage Heatwave]

Untill another Hitler comes along and shoots the whole illusion to hell

[Foundation]

oh well we just live our lives

[arendt]

Yes...thats what I'm referring to.

We're quite content in our cozy little cities...in our comfortable temperature-controlled homes with their oh so convenient televisions and computers and internet and toaster ovens....

We've constructed a cozy little comfort culture here in this Western world...where we frolic in our sheilded, plasticated wonderworld of music and modern technology and schools and work and jobs and clothes and cars and all those niftly little toy gadgets we carry around to relieve our incessant boredom and bottled up agression...the news from outside drones so loudly that we've learned to ignore it, its hums are sometimes even soothing in a way, we've learned to sleep to it.

The news is all bad and its all the same, so why pay attention this time? Turn off that depressing thing, football is way more interesting. Want to help the world? Yeah, I'm a good person, I made quite a bit at work these days defending my clients from this law and that, I'll give a few hundred to feed starving kids in Africa and sleep better at night for it.

The world is basically divided 20/80...around 20% live in industrialized, modern, relatively ok places and 80% live in hellish horrors. We in the 20 have constructed a a plastic sheild over our plastic home...we know whats happening outside, we care about whats happening outside, enough to rent a few movies about it or turn on the tv or get a newpaper delivery or even send in a bit of happy money to those Poor Starving Kids (ooh, isn't that so sad? its just so depressing. ive got an idea, lets start one of those charity bake sales to save these kids! ooh, fun! then we get to feel happy about helping Other People and at the same time eat lots of yummy food. and i just loooove cooking! i cant wait!), but our home is just too too comfortable to actually walk out of it to enter the real world, and our overprotective parents' constant warnings about Terrorism Hatred War Violence Anti-Americanism (or Anti-Westernism) don't serve as much encouragement.

For most of us, it seems, and I include myself in this group, it is just too easy to live the fun life at home in this grand illusion we've built around ourselves. Everyone else is doing it, after all, so why shouldn't I? Sure, I'll continue to complain about it, sure, I'll continue to read about it, I might even donate some large sums of money to those truly helpful charity organizations once I make it rich and buy a nice large house in the suburbs with good schools and good shopping malls and a nice view from the windows and a really fast internet connection and a fancy car and so on, but will I actually do anything real about it? Will anyone? Will the condition of the world actually change significantly in my lifetime? Probably not.

So I guess we're left to these very well-meaning forum threads and news reports and charity bake sales and flyers and walkathons. And hundreds of thousands die in Darfur just as they died a decade ago in Rwanda and earlier in Cambodia and etc. and etc. and etc. and etc. again and again and again and again and probably a whole bunch of time in my own lifetime as well. Oh well. Life under the plastic sun is pretty fun.


Did you read the articles that I linked to? Because you drew some pretty odd conclusions from the material if you did. And if you're an American you totally missed the point.

American wasn't just standing on the sidelines, having bakesales, and feeling awful, our policy was to thwart any intervention when the slaughter could have been stopped. Then, once the genocidal maniacs had been chased out of the country into neighboring states, we started shipping massive amounts refugee aid - when the refugees were the murderers. America was not indifferent, it was virtually complicant.

As Americans there is always a very effective thing to do - write your congressional delegation. It's amazing what this can accomplish. I've written my congressional rep twice, and my states' senatorial delegation three times each about the Sudan/Darfur crimes. All of them have voted to fund both humanitarian aid and military intervention. Am I responsible for their votes? Not solely, but you can bet my correspondence, along with other constituants did.

[Realist]

I skimmed the artlicles, and I know a bunch (but not all that much( independently about this particular genocide. And I think I've got the point exactly, though perhaps I haven't filled in all the details.

American wasn't just standing on the sidelines, having bakesales, and feeling awful, our policy was to thwart any intervention when the slaughter could have been stopped.

Maybe that was our government's policy (it is practically that in Sudan too btw--and same with the rest of the Western world). That wasn't my policy (its not for Sudan either btw). Nor was it my neighbor's or friend's or any of the local churches or schools or other feel-good organizations. The average American wants to help, they just enjoy their lives too much to create any real change.

[Iceage Heatwave]

As AID's gets worse here, hopefully the US will start to step in more and help in africa.

[arendt]

Maybe that was our government's policy (it is practically that in Sudan too btw--and same with the rest of the Western world). That wasn't my policy (its not for Sudan either btw). Nor was it my neighbor's or friend's or any of the local churches or schools or other feel-good organizations. The average American wants to help, they just enjoy their lives too much to create any real change.

In our country, isn't our government's policy our policy by definition?

Here's a great article by Samantha Powers, "Bystanders to Genocide (http://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/power.htm)."

[Jeffery]

In our country, isn't our government's policy our policy by definition?

Here's a great article by Samantha Powers, "Bystanders to Genocide (http://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/power.htm
)."
No. The government does many things that it's citizens may object to. Just because the US government does something, does not mean I myself am doing it.

[Realist]

In our country, isn't our government's policy our policy by definition?

I have to believe you're trying to convey a meaning that isn't getting out in the text of your question, because the answer is obviously no. As I said in my previous post, the policy of US might be keep out of Sudan (and is seems as this is in fact the policy yet again) but the policy of most of the normal people here is to do those small, well-intentioned but not very effective, things to help. A basketball tournament organized by some friends of mine raised hundreds of dollars for the people being killed in Sudan. Not much, but more than the US government.

If what you mean is that we're a democracy so we are responsible for our government, then I agree with you. And why don't normal Americans demand that our government stop genocides? That is what my second post on this thread is about. It is the heart of the problem.