New Pope Elected

[Red Fire]

Yes that is right, they have ALREADY elected a new pope.
Germany's Cardinal Ratzinger elected new pope
CTV.ca News Staff

Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger of Germany is the new leader of the Roman Catholic Church -- elected after just a handful of ballots. He has taken the name Pope Benedict XVI.

Ratzinger, 78, appeared shortly after the vote at the central balcony of St. Peter's Basilica to greet the hundreds of thousands of pilgrims below.

They chanted "Benedict! Benedict!" as he emerged.

"Dear brothers and sisters, after the great Pope John Paul II, the cardinals have elected me, a simple, humble worker in the Lord's vineyard," the new Pope said, according to a text of his statement.

"I am comforted by the fact that the Lord knows how to work and act even with insufficient instruments. And above all, I entrust myself to your prayers."

Newly-elected Pope Benedict XVI will hold his official inaugural Mass on Sunday, April 25, said Vatican spokesman Joaquin Navarro-Valls.

Ratzinger, who was a close confidante of John Paul, was picked on the second day of voting at the Vatican by 115 cardinals. He was considered the frontrunner going into the conclave.

While the vote came quickly, it took some time to confirm the election of a new pope on Tuesday afternoon.

When the smoke began to pour out of the makeshift chimney on the Sistine Chapel, it appeared to be white. But the bells did not begin tolling right away, leaving many wondering what the result of the vote was.

Because of the confusion over previous ballots, journalists were hesitant to call the vote either way. Despite that, a cheer went up from the thousands of pilgrims in St. Peter's Square.

Several minutes after the smoke appeared, the bells in Vatican's Sistine Chapel began to move.

Vatican Affairs correspondent Gerry O'Connell, reporting from Rome, said that from his vantage point, he could see people running through the streets to get to the Vatican as the bells rang.

"It is one of the great joys of the city," O'Connell told CTV News.

"Children, old people, young people -- they are all trying to make their way to this square."

The Enforcer

Ratzinger is known as the "Enforcer" of the Catholic faith. And while he has received some criticism for his hard-line stance on many moral issues, he is also seen as an intelligent man with much influence.

He is the dean of the College of Cardinals, and presided over many of the key ceremonies following the death of John Paul in early April, raising speculation that he would emerge a winner from the conclave.

Father Michael Bechard of St. Peter's Seminary points out that not all members of the Catholic church will be quick to embrace the choice of Ratzinger as the new pontiff.

"For many people in the Catholic Church, the name Ratzinger is one that is not that well received, especially by the more liberal elements of the church," Bechard told CTV.

"He's considered someone who has often taken a hard-line stance on moral issues and a lot of different doctrinal issues," Bechard told CTV.

Bechard concedes, however, that the cardinal is a "brilliant theologian," who has written extensively on the church, and has "worked at they very heart of the Vatican" for well over two decades.

Ratzinger was elected after just four or five ballots in one of the fastest papal election in the past century. Pope Pius XII was elected in 1939 in three ballots on one day, while Pope John Paul I was elected in 1978 in four ballots in one day.

As for the selection of his papal name, Michael Higgins, the president of St. Jerome's University, said he was "considerably delighted" at Ratzinger's choice to take on the name of "Benedict" as pope.

His predecessor, "Benedict the 15th has, in many ways, been one of the most neglected Popes of the 20th century. He was a remarkable man," Higgins told CTV.

Benedict has recently been rediscovered through biographical and historical works, "and he's been called the great peace pope of our time."

"So perhaps Cardinal Ratzinger will take his cue from that, and will recognize the importance of peace. Not only globally, but peace within the church itself."


It'll be pretty cool for World Youth Day participates, since this is the new pope, and plus he is already from Germany.
Hopefully he is as good a pope as was John Paul II

-Red

[Moose]

Meh, just another guy given title and robes, and not being catholic just means another day of the week.

[Kyir]

i was afraid the church would be in shambles for all eternity :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[Moose]

I heard something about a the apocolypse beginning on 2012 if the pope died in march...well, there ya go :p.

[Hellblazer]

Aw nuts. The vatican has a new leader. :dry:

[wolf rayne {D}]

uh oh...that means im gonna have to go to another church party....

[Spit_101]

Idiots. Just because you're not (and I am) Catholic, doesn't mean you have rights to talk shit.

I'm glad Ratzinger was elected, he was a good Cardinal leader (under the Pope, of course.)

[Krome]

Meh, just another guy given title and robes, and not being catholic just means another day of the week.

Like he said.

[Hydrant]

yay we have a new pope

and hes german

hooray!

(im not being sarcastic at all, Im catholic)

[Warcow]

78 is quite old . . .

It seems almost pointless to elect a man that aged, most likely there will have to be a new pope in a few years. Oh well, he is obviously a man of wisdom, so he seems a good choice.

[wolf rayne {D}]

Idiots. Just because you're not (and I am) Catholic, doesn't mean you have rights to talk shit.

I'm glad Ratzinger was elected, he was a good Cardinal leader (under the Pope, of course.)
im catholic i think....

[Kyir]

at least he's from germeny, where they speak german, which in that language is the word Uber. and spit, im sorry if i offended you, i keep forgeting that everyone dosnt share my veiws on the world

[The Cheat]

Meh, just another guy given title and robes, and not being catholic just means another day of the week.


I agree. Also why does the Pope have to be so.....old?

[Godmic18]

I agree. Also why does the Pope have to be so.....old?

In case he's a bad pope, they don't want him to be pope for too long.

[drakonfire]

78 is quite old . . .

It seems almost pointless to elect a man that aged, most likely there will have to be a new pope in a few years. Oh well, he is obviously a man of wisdom, so he seems a good choice.


the catholic faith follows the time tested "with age comes wisdom" from what i know (and thats seriosuly not much) it seems a good choice, even if he is a little old, but i'd rather an old and wise pope than a young and foolish, ya know?

(no i'm not catholic, but i am christian and this is important)

[Megabyte]

The sheer lack of compassion for the death of a great man, and the task being taken by his replacement, is rather insulting and ignorant.

I was raised catholic, though at this point I'm rather agnostic and actually have a anti-church (organizational wise) attitude. However, it doesn't matter.

The title of pope is a sacred and important position. This person has more impact on the world than any other person. You would all do well to remember that not being catholic has little bearing on the power he wields socially and politically.

[Moose]

The sheer lack of compassion for the death of a great man, and the task being taken by his replacement, is rather insulting and ignorant.

I was raised catholic, though at this point I'm rather agnostic and actually have a anti-church (organizational wise) attitude. However, it doesn't matter.

The title of pope is a sacred and important position. This person has more impact on the world than any other person. You would all do well to remember that not being catholic has little bearing on the power he wields socially and politically.


Whats ironic is that every life is important, yet if some bum in new york died tonight it wouldn't even make it to the evening news, well maybe a slight glimpse of it, but other then that...True the pope can affect many people, but i don't support a religon that has sexually deprived priests raping boys

Note: That is a fact and it is not hateful or discrimatory, it's just my view on not subscribing to the vatican church.

[Megabyte]

read my post, I'm against the church as an organization as well. Again, that still irrelevant, and nobody makes any claims about the importance of life. Don't try to push some comment you made without thinking onto other arguments.

Besides which, taking your first post to example, I'd assume you'd put as little sincerity on the death of any person, bum or religous leader, so maybe that wasn't the best example to use, eh?

bah, time for rehearsal..I'll be back to flame ppl over this later.

[monkus]

The sheer lack of compassion for the death of a great man, and the task being taken by his replacement, is rather insulting and ignorant.
I was raised catholic, though at this point I'm rather agnostic and actually have a anti-church (organizational wise) attitude. However, it doesn't matter.
The title of pope is a sacred and important position. This person has more impact on the world than any other person. You would all do well to remember that not being catholic has little bearing on the power he wields socially and politically.

Don't you think that's a tad strange? That a religious leader can wield power that equals George W. Bush, the leader of the most powerful country in the world? A leader elected by people of a single faith, to represent people of a single faith, with this much power.

Mocking a power role decreases the power in the role itself. Whether you're catholic or not, religious or not, you should understand the effects of having a world leader granted power simply because of religion. It caused problems in the past, a great deal of them.

Country leaders today have their power because of real reasons. We endorse George W. Bush because of a government structure we approve of, and because of a social contract we agreed to. The pope receives a divine mandate to rule, voted by a group of elite within the religion who rule.

Don't oppose this because of religious reasons. Use Rawl's Veil of Ignorance. Pretend you don't know who you are. Would you feel satisfied with this kind of distribution of power?

The marginal people in these two groups, (Religious believers and UFO believers) don't matter in this argument. What matters is the prejudice and superstituion built into the media coverage of teh two sets of beliefs. One is treated reverently and accepted as received truth, the other is treated laughingly and dismissed out of hand...
I offer one version of a typical television news story heard each year on the final Friday of Lent:
"Today is Good Friday, observed by Christians worldwide as the day that commemorates the crucifixion of Jesus Christ, the Son of God, whose death redeemed the sins of mankind"
Here's the way it should be written:
"Today is Good Friday, observed worldwide by Jesus buffs as the day on which the popular, bearded cultural figure, sometimes referred to as The Messiah, was allegedly crucified and-according to legend-died for mankind's so-called sins. Today kicks off a 'holy' weekend that culminates on Easter sunday, when, it is widely believed, this dead 'savior'-who also, by the way, claimed to be the son of a sky-dwelling, invisible being known as God-mysteriously 'rose from the dead' "
...That would be an example of unbaised news reporting. Don't wait around for it to happen. The aliens will land first.

If you got offended because you believe in the institutions from an unbiased point of view, then you should really consider the power of the institutions compared to the checks and procedures it follows. If you got offended because you felt it a hit at your religion, well then, you're not using that Rawlsy thing that helps us make decisions.

I love George Carlin, because he speaks the truth. People talk smack about the USA, George Bush, and tons of other things too. But once you hit religion there's a problem.

[Medemia]

Personally, I think Benedict XVI will be good for the Catholic church. He seems to be very doctrinally sound in the Catholic faith and will continue the stances that John Paul held. I do see some prophecy starting to come into place though through this.

My wife came up with the theory that Benedict will be extremely hardline, totally alienating the American and European church with his conservativeness while making most of the rest of the world happy. Since most of the money for the church comes from America and Europe, pressure will be put upon the Cardinals for the next conclave to elect a more liberal pope, who will try to appease many and make the Catholic church more catholic (universal). This will lead to a church more like the Universal Unitarianist where all ways lead to God if it's sincere.

The one-world-church is on it's way, but I don't believe it will happen when Ratzinger is Pope.

[Realist]

There are a billion Catholics in this world. There are only around 300 million Americans. The pope represents a lot more people than GWB, and he's hated by a lot less people too.

Of course, he's not elected by democracy...but its not like GWB is more qualified for his position than any of the popes are.

[Hydrant]

yeah

and he has a cool hat

[monkus]

GWB was elected by a vote that represents all 300 million people in a carefully organized way, however. Benedict was elected by a vote that represents 157 people, who represent the elite members of that group. Furthermore, there exists numerous checks on GWB's ability to wield power, and specific obligations he is expected to follow. Benedict has few such checks, and is expected to do what he feels necessary in any situation with little guards against abuse.

[Red Fire]

We humans need a leader... a religious leader. We need to believe there is life after death, otherwise, what do we have to look forward to? We start off with nothing and end with nothing... we need religion to keep people sane and in-control of their actions throughtout their life-span. I am Catholic and even though I am really into my religion, I too question it sometimes about the lives of people and how they can be negelected so easily.
But as I stated before, we need beliefs, we need leaders, we need hope...

-Red

[Medemia]

The checks on Benedict are the faith of a billion Catholics and a personal conviction seeded in the Scriptures. If he does things which are abiblical, the church loses membership and funding. If he caters to the liberals, he loses the conservatives (which make up a majority of the Catholic church.) If you actually take a look at the election of an American president, he is elected by only 535 people, the electoral college. There is nothing written in the constitution saying that a college member has to vote the way the people of his state voted. Popular election of a president has only worked because the college has cooperated.

The Catholic church, like the US government, is a representative government. The 151 or so Cardinals who voted in this pope represent their people like Senators and House Members respresent American citizens. So questioning the Pope's power because he's appointed by only the elite is nonsense.

[Realist]

GWB was elected by a vote that represents all 300 million people in a carefully organized way, however. Benedict was elected by a vote that represents 157 people, who represent the elite members of that group.

Accepted, nevertheless, I think pope selection has generally been on par with presidential selection, at least in this century. We've had a lot of really bad elected leaders and there have been a bunch of really strong (and at least good for the church) popes elected by elite conclave. What matters isn't how they come into power, but how they use that power.

Furthermore, there exists numerous checks on GWB's ability to wield power, and specific obligations he is expected to follow.

In this country he does. When it comes to the international realm, Bush's power is far greater than the popes, with very little practical checks.

[Realist]

The Catholic church, like the US government, is a representative government. The 151 or so Cardinals who voted in this pope represent their people like Senators and House Members respresent American citizens. So questioning the Pope's power because he's appointed by only the elite is nonsense.

Except that the cardinals were chosen by the previous pope....the president doesn't choose congressmen.

[Moose]

read my post, I'm against the church as an organization as well. Again, that still irrelevant, and nobody makes any claims about the importance of life. Don't try to push some comment you made without thinking onto other arguments.

Besides which, taking your first post to example, I'd assume you'd put as little sincerity on the death of any person, bum or religous leader, so maybe that wasn't the best example to use, eh?

bah, time for rehearsal..I'll be back to flame ppl over this later.

If this thread was worth thinking about, I might just have commented differently, besides that, i'll read the first line and then make some random assumption.

Or maybe I just felt like using the quote button, haven't used the for awhile :p, either way, it's just a irrelevant comment :).

Cheers!

[Medemia]

I saw that coming :) Yes, that's true, but do we question the right of the British Prime Minister to rule since he is appointed by his peers (if I remember how the Prime Minister is chosen)? How about monarchies? Vatican City is an independent state and this is the system of government which has been set up by that independent state to choose it's leaders, even if most of it's leaders do not live in-state.
The pope's power comes not because he's the leader of the state of Vatican City, but because so many people look to him as their leader. That is why he has political clout, especially in heavily-populated Catholic countries.

[Realist]

In actuality, the pope doesn't have all that much political power. He can't stop death penalties, can't significantly decrease abortion (at least in the West), and contraceptives are as popular as ever. :)

He doesn't even have much power in ultra-Catholic Italy, where people are leaving the country in droves and no one is even having kids despite his protests.

At least, if Pope Benedict is no stronger than the previous.

All he has power over is the actually Church and the Catholics who still listen to him.

[Medemia]

Clout does not equal power. John Paul II had clout enough to help tear down the Berlin Wall. He did not have any power to get out there with a sledgehammer though.

[Realist]

Clout is a kind of power, and its one which I don't think the pope has much of in regards to most of the political issues the Church cares about.

[Medemia]

Agreed, at least out here in the West.

[dirka dirka]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prophecy_of_the_Popes

2 more and the world kaboomes!!

[Iceage Heatwave]

I heard something about a the apocolypse beginning on 2012 if the pope died in march...well, there ya go .

Isn't that the year the gaint comet is supposed to hit the earth not a joke

The other most populer canditate for pope was a black man from brazil. The new pope is a perfect arayan from germany. Would have been progresive to have a black pope.

[Serge]

Isn't that the year the gaint comet is supposed to hit the earth.

The other most populer canditate for pope was a black man from brazil. The new pope is a perfect arayan from germany. Would have been progresive to have a black pope.
I also heard the new pope used to be in a Nazi youth group; though in his defense, he says he was forced to join.

[Iceage Heatwave]

I wasn't calling him a Nazi. I hope that you didn't mention that because I said he was german.

[Serge]

Nah, I said that seperately from what you said. I heard it on CNN I think, or maybe it was MSNBC.

EDIT: I quoted you to imply that when given the choice between a Nazi and a minority they chose Nazi.

[mushroom_girl]

Isn't that the year the gaint comet is supposed to hit the earth not a joke

It's also the year the olympics come to New York. :cool: I sense an omen.

Now regarding the thread:

I think it's disrespectful of some of you to make comments about the pope and his power. Respect other people's religions, they can believe in whatever they want and do whatever they want, and they should have as much respect as you.

To Catholics, this is a major historical day. As a matter of fact, it's just a historical day in general. I am not Catholic, just so you know, and I have great respect for anyone in that position. Not only is it a huge responsibility, it is also a great honor. And the lack of repect you show for a certain religion makes me squirm. Just as you believe in something, others believe in another. Don't make comments if they disrespect another's personal opinion and belief. That's just not right.
[/rant]

[ko71991]

It's also the year the olympics come to New York. :cool: I sense an omen.

Now regarding the thread:

I think it's disrespectful of some of you to make comments about the pope and his power. Respect other people's religions, they can believe in whatever they want and do whatever they want, and they should have as much respect as you.

To Catholics, this is a major historical day. As a matter of fact, it's just a historical day in general. I am not Catholic, just so you know, and I have great respect for anyone in that position. Not only is it a huge responsibility, it is also a great honor. And the lack of repect you show for a certain religion makes me squirm. Just as you believe in something, others believe in another. Don't make comments if they disrespect another's personal opinion and belief. That's just not right.
[/rant]
I'm Catholic, and thanks Liz, I guess it is a big deal to others, but I guess its just sort of a "Meh" day for me, but hey, I'm not exactly the perfect person. :(

[max2k106]

we have a new pope
and hes german

Now everybody . . . lets take a step back and look into the past to the last time a German was the head of millions of people. ;-) :p
This is only for comic purposes. I do not carry the belief that Pope Benedict XVI is a neo-Nazi nor is he the next Hitler.

[Tag Captain]

Now everybody . . . lets take a step back and look into the past to the last time a German was the head of millions of people. ;-) :p
Yeah, what's up with the German Chancellor anyway? :rolleyes:

[Jeffery]

The only issue i see with who they picked is the fact he is already 78 years old.....

Well kiddies, looks like you'll get to see the next pope elected too.

[Red Fire]

He is the oldest Pope elected in (I think it's this many years) 270 years.
But with age comes wisdom.... we hope :p

-Red

[Jeffery]

Yes, but when you elect someone that old, you have to also realise he is more likely (not guaranteed) to die sooner than a younger man.

[Red Fire]

Well yes that is true, the age thing is kinda disappointing... but we aren't cardinals so we can't say a dam thing. Guess we're SOL again :(

-Red

[Jeffery]

My 50 cal disagrees with me being powerless...... [/blasphemy]

[The Cheat]

Since the new Pope was John Paul II right hand man, he will continue his work. That is why he was chosen.

[Cephas]

I'm gonna pop in without reading the thread. Malnourishment and sleep deprivation have robbed me of any patience and ability to concentrate, I couldn't read past the 2nd page (and not even that).

I agree with Med, that I think he will be good for the RCs in general. A man known as 'God's rottweiler' can't be all bad, can he? :huh:

What concerns me is a quote I heard, then read this morning.

Pope Benedict XVI has revealed he prayed to God during the conclave not to be elected pope but that "evidently this time He didn't listen to me."
This man is acting, if I understand correctly, in an intercessory position for the Catholics. How on earth can people have confidence in a man to whom 'God does not listen'? I'm mildly disturbed by that statement...

[Red Fire]

Hmm... well good point *shudders*
Well this Pope seems right, sorta, but what I'm puzzled about is how the world can just get over a great Pope such as John Paul II. I am espically ashamed in the cardinals for electing so quickly (sure with WYD appraoching it was needed), but I mean we had a great Pope, and in a matter of days are worshipping a new one. This is one of things that questions me about my religion. Also, I'm not too sure why the cardinals elected this man (otehr than waht Cephas just said about the dog). I've heard that he is against everything that John Paul II put into power (regarding gays and otehr laws recently added). It amazes me...

-Red

[Cephas]

Actually, I think that for the most part, the new Pope is pretty much the same as the last. He was the 'enforcer' for John-Paul II on many issues. I think he got a bad reputation because he did JPs 'dirty work'. I doubt you'll see much difference in the stance of the Vatican with Ratzinger at the helm.

[Medemia]

First of all, when he said that God did not listen to him, I'm sure it was in respect to God hearing his prayer, but deciding to go against his request. As a guy who's been praying for a long time, I'm sure he knows that God hears everything but decides to answer no sometimes.

Secondly, I'm sure you would anger quite a few Catholics by saying that they are worshipping a new pope so soon after the previous one died. I'm hoping they do not worship the Pope, but look to him as their head priest of the church. A priest is not supposed to receive the worship of the flock but direct them how to worship God in a way that God would find satisfying.

Thirdly, were there new laws added to the books near the death of John Paul about gays and other controversies that I don't know about? As far as I know, John Paul pretty much kept church tradition on these issues, which is the one thing that Benedict believes in strongest. So, unless there was something I missed, the only thing I actually see happening with Benedict is a stronger stance against such controversy that would continue and strengthen the convictions of John Paul.

[Red Fire]

Well as I stated "I've heard", so my source could be wrong. And I am Catholic and it still angers me that they elected him so soon... they had more time, why didn't they use all that time up?

-Red

[Krome]

Yes that is right, they have ALREADY elected a new pope.


It'll be pretty cool for World Youth Day participates, since this is the new pope, and plus he is already from Germany.
Hopefully he is as good a pope as was John Paul II

-Red

Yay

[Jeffery]

Rofl..........

When he said God didn;t listen, he was refering to the fact that during the conclave, he prayed to God to NOT be elected pope. He said he wanted to live his life out in peace.


See, God DOES have a sense of humor.