New Antirush

[monkus]

I come here for two reasons. First, now that I'm retired, I have no frett with sharing my best anti-rush with all of you. Second, I'd like credit for it.

Here is the form:
http://img132.echo.cx/img132/6010/anti7ds.jpg
After ages of experimentation and thinking, this is the result.

Warcow and many others will verify that it is my form, and I made it practically from scratch, without any assistance aside from the inspiration. A little story:

Realizing that many people were beating rushes with power turtles (Shiny flors has to get credit here, he demonstrated the potency), I decided to work off of that. Using my frosty skills, developed from turtling, and maximizing the power with 3 knights and a dragon, I made this form. The long range is wonderful, and it's only open to one, quite awkward LOS shot. The cleric is DSM proof, and most dsms can't deal much damage to it.

I've heard about many people using this form, however, interestingly enough, I saw a variant of it that doesn't work quite so well. Some people have moved both scouts back. Foolishly, they make way for dsms to charge in and kill their cleric. Furthermore, moving the left scout back means that he can't make early shots. This is really bad, because you need to do that to stop ambushers and the like. The LOS shot left open is easily blocked, so it's not a concern.

The greatest part about this form is its ability to be both defensive and offensive. You can easily attack, with all of the aggressive units. The ambusher can't seige as well, but it provides great backup. The frosty's for late game; it kills anyone whose lost their ranged units.

This form has had great success. It beat crx with 5 units left, and a variant beat allstar, as well as Spliff and many others on GL.

I'm posting this because I want more people to try and anti-rush, instead of conforming to rushing. I would also like for the people who use it now to know that I made it, so I can perhaps maintain at least a little legacy for generations to come.

[zzzaacckk]

excelent work Monkus

[Lonely Tylenol]

:cool: Power to the power turtling.

I'm posting this because I want more people to try and anti-rush, instead of conforming to rushing.

Rushing GA dependent rushers brings me occasional joy. But aside from the people that refuse to go without GA, the only time I've ever fought with a rush was when someone jumped me while I was showing a clan member who asked me for rush advice. :dry:

I like the form overall, although I am rather disappointed at the lack of the Furgon in this form. You will find that after their Mud Golem and/or Scouts/GA are incapacitated, frostwhoring is the ultimate anti rush regardless of your present strategy (I do this with my standard turtle), and although not necessary, the Furgon is a very powerful amplifier to this rule. The reasoning behind this is clear. If your own ranks have thinned in the process of killing the enemy's remaining units, you will find it extremely difficult to maintain a perimeter with your remaining units and a determined Knight could make it through to the Frost Golem with relative ease. The Furgon adds an efficient, renewable wall that should allow you just enough time to kill the frosted unit to use your Frost Golem to get the unit that's been hacking through the Furgon shrubs. :bigsmile:

[monkus]

Tried it. There's nothing in there that I would be willing to remove for the furgon. I need all the power I can get. The trick to that form is not trying to always out-technique your opponent (shrub, frost whore, redirect attacts, etc.), because that's almost impossible against a rush. The trick is to face them head on, and then use some technique for the cleric and the frosty. Furgon's nice, but there's not much to get rid of.

[FryLock]

Of course, a same side wisp/ambusher/mud combo will get the cleric if it gets first turn. Which is why I continue to HATE the ambusher.

Oh well, I guess there's no point in worrying about defending the un-defendable. Looks solid.

[Wolfman]

good work monkus..... i concur your findings... very solid anti-rush.... although i do hv a test anti-rush similiar.... just that my corner is a scout n knight up on the same line...... also... i use a muddy instead of an ambusher in its place.

i agree with fry in that mud/ga/wispy combo which will paralize your set.... i once use my abovementioned test set on fry's rush.... i just cant stop his rush.... but thx god that i play him as rev team tag mates.... i don get to lose stats... hehehe

wolfy

[Ape King]

Rush <3 hybrid

[sub the hendrix]

Now I know what to do with my anti rush. I won't start out copying that form directly, because I like to be creative, but it's a beautiful piece of work monkus. TAO misses you already.

[speaker4thedead]

[QUOTE=monkus]I come here for two reasons. First, now that I'm retired, I have no frett with sharing my best anti-rush with all of you. Second, I'd like credit for it.

Come out of retirement ive been working on my turtling game. :bigsmile:
I WONT TO TURTLE YOU ONE MORE TIME :cool:

[Tag Captain]

It's certainly interesting, monkus, but I personally think my formation trumps it slightly.

http://img136.echo.cx/img136/9827/antirush2za.jpg

Again, a power turtle, but with subtle differences. It loses some of the fluidity of the scouts, and in return gains the ability to block off a wisp that is positioned directly in front of the cleric, often causing an opponent to waste it and do minimal damage that can quickly be healed. If it gets same-side, the ambusher and scout can take out the enemy cleric even if your opponent does the same, which is hard due to the lack of LOS and wisp attacks, and if you get opp-side you can send the dragon on a cleric-hunting mission. Having no frosty is tough in the endgame, but it more than compensates for that by including a muddy, which gives the benefits of being able to break down even a opp side turtle w/ furgon (if it's not used well). The knights provide the staying power, the dragon, scouts, ambusher and mud provide ample range, and the whole formation is capable of going offensive or defensive depending on the opponent.

This has beaten most of the best rushers, except crx who I haven't had a chance to play, but notably FryLock (possibly the best rusher ever) twice.

My only other consideration was to possibly remove the dragon and include frost and furgon, but this didn't leave me with much firepower, which is what the form aims to do... overwhelm the opponent with superior numbers and a versatile strategy.

[FryLock]

This has beaten most of the best rushers, except crx who I haven't had a chance to play, but notably FryLock (possibly the best rusher ever) twice.



For shame! We never played when you used that set! The set that beat my own (bad) ANTI-RUSH twice, was that old cleric-less anti that you dreamed up. So don't go getting delusions of grandeur, teamate! :cool:

[Wolfman]

For shame! We never played when you used that set! The set that beat my own (bad) ANTI-RUSH twice, was that old cleric-less anti that you dreamed up. So don't go getting delusions of grandeur, teamate! :cool:
hahaha.... seems like our "rusher" is under fire here, teammate..hehehe

fry... u r rush specialist.... thats why u r probably the target of anti-rush invention.

this is for bot.... to fry:

For shame! my anti-rush outbeat your anti-rush. So don get delusions of grandeur, teamate! :cool:

wolfy

***guys.. we r so bored waiting for finals of rev grey tag so much so that we r playing "stepping on our team-mates foot" game.

[CuZGL]

looks like a strong Anti Rush Monkus , some good work :)

[CRX687]

Let me tell you this anti-rush is amazing.

Bots, by inserting those units, ur form is a one-sided rush that's good against all-out rushs... and no longer an anti.

But I disagree with wut monk said about moving the scouts each back one space being stupid. Bombs don't often have a pyro one space off to the side simply because of the prevailence of lwards tehre... Plus if by some off chance you run into one, there's a 50% chance you'd get first turn. Also, having the scouts where they are makes the form VERY weak to bombs. I know you made this form as anti-RUSH only, but I prefer my forms better for freestyle and I also take a bomb into consideraton... having a scout, dragon, and knight burned at once isn't a good thing. And the pros to having the scouts moved back is that if they don't have an upward-cornered scout, your corner knight is free to move and attack... plus the flanking scout can be blocked by a simple knight move.

[Red Fire]

Props monkus, looks solid. Very solid! :D

But my suggestion for anti-rushes is to have 8 LW's out front and a dragon at the back, can kill anything ;) :cool:

-Red

[CRX687]

Props monkus, looks solid. Very solid! :D

But my suggestion for anti-rushes is to have 8 LW's out front and a dragon at the back, can kill anything ;) :cool:

-Red

unless they've got a pyro and frosty :-P

[Red Fire]

unless they've got a pyro and frosty :-P

SHH.... n00b rushers don't know how to use those properly yet ;)

-Red

[sub the hendrix]

I played Hulky with monk's form, he basically had a one sided rush, and I was beating him by a little most of the game. Then it came down to one of those stupid knight and scout vs. knight and scout endgames, and I lost. (Hulky had a 9 health knight left when the smoke cleared, those kinds of things are one more reason I hate rush games).

Anyways, it was very close, and I was extremely pleased with the form. I reccomend everyone at least try it once.

[*The Nothing*]

Nice antirush, I like it.

[Tag Captain]

CRX, the form is designed primarly for defense, although if it gets an opp side turtle in can go on the offense... the only rushing units on the front row are the ambusher and scout, and its primary aim is not to kill the enemy cleric first, but to absorb any attacks and kill the attacking units, then break out once the ranged units are gone. The only reason the front line consists of an ambusher and scout is because I didn't have any other units to put in there to block off LOS and pyro burn... and if you look, monkus' form has 2 scouts near the front row too... why is his not a rush and mine is? Because of the ambusher? Fine. I'll take out the ambusher and put in a LW. Now what do you think?

You aren't going to get any formation that's perfect no matter what opponent formy you're facing (and if you have one, crx, I'd very much like to see it :rolleyes: ), you're bound to end up being vulnerable to either a rush, bomb or turtle. Monkus' and my forms are slightly vulnerable to bombs and opp corner turts with stonies, but frankly they aren't all that common any more (except mostly with newbs who don't know how to play well anyway). You make a formation that has a chance of beating 90% of opponents if that's the best percentage you can get. And 90% of formation nowadays are power rushes (melee and ranged units).

[Noda]

nice, yeh ive been using an anti-rush for the last couple months and between me and danton we are about 2 and 35 against rushes, no furgon and cleric kills dont really affect me. the fact is cleric kill takes turns and in those turns i can always nab a scout, harm another or take there cleric.

bombs are deffinetly the hardest thing to beat with them, but still doable.

Omega Shin is the only person to beat it with a normal rush and it was just a realy solid, no dragon, double cleric setup. the other was the sniper but he was like the second person i played with it and it was when it had an ambusher instaid of muddy, anti-rush is for rushing half of a rush, not defending

[Red Fire]

Yes I have to agree with Tag Captain, there is no perfect set-up out there. Each set-up has it weaknesses, monkus has just been trying so hard to find a weakness for rushes and this form seems to have found the Achilles Heel of the rush (sorta). But in any case, a rush is most likely to try and take out the cleric, here's a plan, get rid of the cleric and full out rush yourself. As zzz once stated before, "Fight fire with fire". It may have a better chance at holding up. But this set-up seems good, it's basically a hybrid of a turtle and a rush, and it seems to work. Again, nicely done monk! :cool:

-Red

[CRX687]

CRX, the form is designed primarly for defense, although if it gets an opp side turtle in can go on the offense... the only rushing units on the front row are the ambusher and scout, and its primary aim is not to kill the enemy cleric first, but to absorb any attacks and kill the attacking units, then break out once the ranged units are gone. The only reason the front line consists of an ambusher and scout is because I didn't have any other units to put in there to block off LOS and pyro burn... and if you look, monkus' form has 2 scouts near the front row too... why is his not a rush and mine is? Because of the ambusher? Fine. I'll take out the ambusher and put in a LW. Now what do you think?

You aren't going to get any formation that's perfect no matter what opponent formy you're facing (and if you have one, crx, I'd very much like to see it :rolleyes: ), you're bound to end up being vulnerable to either a rush, bomb or turtle. Monkus' and my forms are slightly vulnerable to bombs and opp corner turts with stonies, but frankly they aren't all that common any more (except mostly with newbs who don't know how to play well anyway). You make a formation that has a chance of beating 90% of opponents if that's the best percentage you can get. And 90% of formation nowadays are power rushes (melee and ranged units).

NO, no form is perfect against all others... but that's no reason to not even try... it's that striving to find the perfect form that keeps me playing TAO... ALl the other elements have gotten repititive... I'm in touch with my clan in a number of other games... so it's not even that anymore... but it's the constant search for the form that makes it interesting.

Monk's form isn't a rush because it does not have the capability for a cleric kill.. his scouts are positioned so that only 1 of them can take an los shot at the corner cleric, and would probably die from doing it... The busher can't reach even a same side cleric, and the other scout is for defense only.

You form has the capability to easily hunt down the cleric. With all that firepower and lasting ability, the most effective way to use it would be to attack.

[ko71991]

Nice one monkus.

I'm so sick of n00bs playing me with turtles when I tell them 50 times its a rush game and then they say they don't know any other forms.. Army...

[343 HeadHunter]

didn't you play me with that in our most recent battle monkus? anyways if you did i beat it. I just remember playing someone with it and can't remember if it's you or not. But if it is you it's not perfect but probably close.

[monkus]

*Looks left, looks right, sees sight is clear*.

Bump.

[Spit_101]

It's a well balanced antirush. It has no flaws that you can't get out of. So that makes it a great setup.

Same with Tag's.

[Hatchet Warrior]

It looks my anti, but mine has a few units in different spots and I had a muddie, no busher.

[zzzaacckk]

Right now im working on a 2 frosty anti rush for the FPs servers... yes I have to frosties...it will take some work but I have been playing a lot of games on rev.

here it is:
http://img271.echo.cx/my.php?image=2frostyantirush13zn.jpg

[KBHoleN1]

Zzzaacckk, I would give you one of my appendages to play with those frosties sometime. I had the pass to a 2-frosty account on legends, but the damn thing got dumped by some idiots. I like playing my normal turtle on legends, just put the second frost where the second scout would be on fps, like this:

http://img295.echo.cx/img295/6132/2frostyturtle7vw.png

I am sure it helps only facing one scout on legends, but this turtle holds up outstandingly well with the second frosty. I beat some pretty good rushes with this. I guess this is more about strategy and less about power, so it makes it more fun to see a rusher tuck tail and run after being owned by my frosties and my wisp :p .

[sub the hendrix]

I'd like to see someone effectively use chanty, wisp, and frost in one anti-rush. Now that I think about it, wisp+barrier could be pretty damn sexy.

[The Exile]

The problem lies with rushes generally having a lot of ranged units, rendering multiple focus units somewhat difficult to use effectively.

I used to have 3 frosties. :)

[sub the hendrix]

The problem lies with rushes generally having a lot of ranged units, rendering multiple focus units somewhat difficult to use effectively.
Which is why I'd pay to see it done efffectively.

[zzzaacckk]

ya tis easier with 1 scout on legends but ive had ome sucess with taht one posted above.