Frag's Army (Serious, please post comments)

[fragdemon]

Updates:
2/17
Gargoyle Added
Shaman Removed (Will stay for one week in case someone has a great idea)

2/3
Shaman Added

1/27
Nymph Added

1/17
Ranger Updated.
Acolyte Updated.

1/12
Frailty Ward Added
Ranger Added
The Rules have been edited.

1/6
Seige Tower Removed

1/4
Dark Assassin Added
Seige Tower

1/2
Acolyte Added
Bard Added

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Okay, just so everyone gets the general concept here, I'm not working by what I would think would be a cool unit to fit in my personal setup. I'm working to create units that fit a couple of criteria:

1) Add depth to the game of tactics arena by exploring new mechanics/concepts.

2) Are balanced.

3) Follow the conventions of the game.


I'd really like to have some criticism on these units so I can polish them up.

[fragdemon]

Well, here are the first two units:


Acolyte
Clerics in training, Acolytes are called to the battlefield during the most threatening of times. Where the work of a single cleric just isn't enough. Incapable of sinking into the trance their masters can fall into, Acolytes bring their youthful zeal and fanaticism instead.

Statistics:
Hit Points: 30
Power: 12(Heal)
Movement Range: 3
Recovery Time: 3

Attack Pattern:
-Heals all units (including opponents) in a diamoned shaped area of 13 tiles. (Diameter of 5 tiles, everywhere 2 tiles or less away from targeted point is affected)
-Maximum targeting range is 3 tiles from the Acolyte (as pyromancer)
-Units will not attempt to block healing spells.
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The pyromancer has the same HP

It has 2 turns less recovery time than a cleric, meaning if it casts a spell but doesn't move for the turn, it spends 2 turns in recovery.

As such, by standing still, an acolyte can recover quick enough to get 2 heals in between a Pyromancer attack.

This unit also has a very large area of effect that allows it to heal itself along with a moderately distand opponent by targeting 2 tiles away from itself. It can affect, at the farthest, an opponent 5 tiles away. (Target 3 tiles, and the range is 2 tiles away)

The Acolyte can be killed by a Knight in 2 hits regardless of a heal. The acolyte takes 3-4 hits to be killed by a Scout or Assassin if it decides to keep on healing itself as soon as it can without any movement in between.

If anyone can think of any cheap strategies that would make this unit too powerful or weak, please post them up.
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Bard
In the dark somber atmosphere of the battlefield, it's up to the bard to keep up the spirits of those around them. Wielding their harps as their weapons against weariness, the Bard's bright tones make even the oldest warrior feel the eagerness of youth again.

Statistics:
Hit Points: 35
Movement Range: 3
Recovery Time: 4

Attack Pattern:
-All units within 2 tiles of the Bard (including enemies and the bard itself) are refreshed (Meaning, it takes them 1 less turn to recover if they're currently recovering.)
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I used the enchantress as a template for this one. Although their abilities aren't the exact same, I decided that allowing the unit to move sooner is essentially the opposite of paralysis.

The recovery time is 4, this way, if the bard moves and uses its spell, the recovery time is 3, same as an Enchantress would have if she moved and Paralyzed people.

But there's a difference in the way that if the bard moves only, he'll take 2 turns to recover, rather than the 1 turn an enchantress would have.

And if the bard refreshes without moving, it will only take 1 turn to recover unlike the 2 turns an enchantress would have.
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Well, I think the 2 units are good for starters.

I personally think my Acolyte is well balanced, but the Bard, working with things never implemented before, is something I'm not very sure about.

If anyone can comment as to the balance of either of these units, it would be greatly appreciated. Especially if you have something to say about the bard.

Thank you for your time.

[ArcPaladinZero]

I guess they seem balanced... no armor and blocking? Anyways, I do like the idea about that cleric, make it do about 15 instead of 12.

[fragdemon]

no armor and blocking?
Well, obviously no armor, because both units are magic units, same as Clerics, DMWs, Pyros, Enchantresses, etc.

As far as blocking goes, I decided it wouldn't fit with an acolyte description wise.

I may give blocking to the bard, but at best, it would be 20 from the front and 10 at the sides. But I decided not to have it like that because I was using the enchantress as a template.

[ArcPaladinZero]

That makes sense, I just wanted to make sure those were your stats. ;)

[fragdemon]

A bump a comment:

Just to address Arcpaladin0, the quick recovery time makes the 15HP heals a bit too cheap.

Simply put, the guy is a fast healer. And even though he heals less units than a cleric, usually, players only heal for the sake of one unit in trouble anyways. So the guy makes it up in recovery, where he can heal 24 HP really quickly.

[Ri'Orius]

I think the Acolyte could stand to have some more range. I mean, right now it'll only be useful in defensive strategies, which are already dominant. Offensive strategies won't be able to use it to help out someone who's attacking, so they'll stick to Clerics. Even with a range boost up to, say, 6, it'll still be best for defensive players, but offensive could have a use for him, too.

And 'tis a noble cause you're aspiring to, good sir. Noble indeed.

[fragdemon]

And 'tis a noble cause you're aspiring to, good sir. Noble indeed.
Not noble. I'm sure everyone wants more units in play.

But difficult, because balancing is such a tough issue.


Anyways, in regards to range... I think I'll keep it at 3 and boost his HP up to the same as a Pyromancer.

This way, you'll feel safer with him closer to the front lines.

[Lone Wolf]

i like them both, i can see you put a lot of thought into these. They would both be very effective to the all magik army im working on.

[fragdemon]

ANOTHER ONE!
Dark Assassin
So shameful that even the assassin's guild won't admit to having them, dark assassins were born with the simple desire of killing a single mark, sacrificing both their life and honor through dark magicks and corrupting their very own souls in order to destroy the target.

Statistics:
HP: 35
Power: 22
Armor: 12%
Movement Range: 4
Recovery Time: 1

Attack Pattern:
- Stabs a single unit on an adjacent side with his dagger.

Special Abilities:
- 70% blocking from front (35% from sides)
- Teleportation
- Loses 5HP when it attacks,
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This is a juiced up assassin with the disbenefit of death through its own use. By attacking twice (the amount required to kill a cleric), it loses 10HP straight up, leaving the opponents with only a need to deal it 25 more damage (not a difficult feat with the use of even 1 knight).
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Seige Tower
-Removed-
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Well, that's my take for the day. If you read the first post, you know the drill. No criticism is too harsh if it's honest.

[fragdemon]

I'm removing the seige tower because after seeing a Dragon in play, I realized a Seige tower is just an inferior dragon, in concept and in the way it's carried out (a longer range, but also a shorter movement space)

Nobody has a comment as to the dark assassin or previous units?

[Rogue_Wolf]

The units are balanced. I had an idea like the Acolyte. Its called the Aquamancer. Its exactly like the Pyromancer, except it heals. I'll post it soon. You should check it out. I also think the Acylote is not a good swap for the cleric. Why heal 5 units by 12, when you can heal 10. And its not worth it for a short range healer. It will die very fast. The other units are fine.

-Rogue_Wolf

[fragdemon]

I've decided to work on units that alter team strategies:

Frailty Ward
Through use of the Dark knowledge, the oldest of the Dark Magic Witches designed a weapon that made even the most durable of creatures fall victim to weakness.
Statistics:
HP: 32
Recovery Time: 4

Attack Pattern:
- Reduces armor of all units within 4 tiles by 15% as long as it maintains focus.
- The armor is reduced even if the other units move away.
- Total armor cannot be reduced below 0.
- Focus spells are unblockable and can penetrate barriers.

Special Abilities:
- 100% Blocking.
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The unit's use lies in the fact that total armor can't be reduced below zero.

Against knights and other fighting units, this ward can wreak havoc. But against magical units, it's completely ineffective.

If you use this in a team full of mages, you can level out the playing field when going up against scouts/knights by making your group much more effective against them. (15% of 24 is a full 3-4 difference in the damage dealt.)
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Ranger
A Master of the Wild, the old and grizzled ranger is called out of the forest during times of war to help protect the villages inside. Using knowledge no other archer knows about hunting and tracking, the ranger becomes a brilliant advisor to the scouts.

Statistics:
Hit Points: 40
Power: 18
Armor: 8%
Movement Range: 4
Recovery Time: 2

Attack Pattern:
- Shoots an arrow at a single target up to 6 tiles away.
- This attack will hit or be blocked by the first unit in its LOS (Line of Sight).

Special Abilities:
- 60% Blocking from the front (30% from the sides)
- Scout Command (Increases the power of all Scouts by 4; This units' power is decreased by 4 for every Scout on the field.)
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The balancing for this is based on the only other synergistic unit, the DSM. Like the DSM, this unit is the exact same as its template alone, meaning that it is, by itself, no stronger or weaker than the template.

Unlike the DSM, this doesn't require another unit to take power from (IE: A dragon), but rather takes the penalty to itself.

In the DSM's case, the DSM can be the only Pyromancer on the team, and still get the full benefit, as long as there's a dragon. But there must be one other scout along with the Ranger for this ability to take effect.
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As usual, any and all comments/criticism on any of my units would be appreciated. If I could get these units completely and wholly balanced, that would be awesome.

[royalfire]

Frailty Ward: very cool, ony beef is I like assassins and it would hurt them, but hey, thats just personal pref

Ranger: shouldn't you make it a little stronger so it can take hurting itself, and also its really not useful to greys and some golds because most don't have multiple scouts

[fragdemon]

shouldn't you make it a little stronger so it can take hurting itself
Nope.

and also its really not useful to greys and some golds because most don't have multiple scouts
Well, since this in itself becomes a second scout, that becomes 2 right there. Regardless of synergy, this unit can become an extra scout anyways.

Also, Scouts seem to be more popular than Assassins as far as Golds go.

[Serge]

wow...you put a lot of thought into a lot of units.

Acolyte: you should increase the range
Bard: very good concept dont know if it would interface w/ the system for TAO
Siege Tower: you took it out yourself...probally for the best
Dark Assasin: im not sure if it would work better than the assasin but a good idea
Fraility Ward: probally the best concept i would love to have one for my setup
Ranger: cool but you should have the penalty be half the benefits
i.e. scout plus 2 PWR ranger minus 1 PWR

Definitely not without their flaws but far better than most posts.

Thanks for your advice on my monk.

P.S. a combo of the fraility ward and barier ward NICE :D

[fragdemon]

Acolyte: you should increase the range
Yeah, I've been thinking about that for a while. Although I don't plan on extending the targeting range past 3 spaces, I do plan on working with a larger affected area, this way you:
1) Have a harder time trying not to target opponents.
2) Have the ability to target a wider range of units.

Bard: very good concept dont know if it would interface w/ the system for TAO
It would interface quite easily, as it just requires a simple change in variables for the effect to actually happen.

As far as menu controls go, it already works perfectly fine.

Ranger: cool but you should have the penalty be half the benefits
I do believe you're ignoring the other synergy units.

When a dragon loses 12 power to a pyromancer, the pyromancer gains 12, not 24.

In the end, if the amount lost was less than the amount gained, the unit would be overpowered, especially when you see that it's already as strong as a conventional unit.

But I will make the synergy bonuses more effective so the scouts have a clearer advantage (and the Ranger has a clearer disadvantage... but you can just optionally not use him/keep him in the back)

[Serge]

I see your point on the ranger and it was LATE when I posted that.

[fragdemon]

Nymph
The wild nymphs were women so beautiful, that they were once referred to as Enchantresses at an earlier period of time. Since then, the nymphs have used the power of nature in conjunction with their beauty to extend their powers far beyond any enchantress before them.

Statistics:
Hit Points: 28
Movement: 3
Recovery Time: 2

Attack Pattern:
- Controls a single unit up to 2 tiles away. In controlling the unit, you can make it move and attack as if you controlled it. The unit still belongs to the enemy, however.
- The Nymph can't target units that are still recovering.

Special Abilities:
- When this unit attacks, it adds on the recovery time of the target unit to its own recovery time.
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This one was a doozy to balance. Taking control of an enemy unit means that the attack is variable, so I had to have balance measures that would adapt as well.

It's important to note that, since the opponents still count as owning the unit controlled, you can't use an opponents cleric to heal your units.

You can move your opponents cleric, forcing it to recover at a critical moment. You can also force a DMW to rush his/her own cleric, which is more than slightly useful.

But the disbenefit will hopefully counterbalance such use. Since it takes 3 turns for the DMW to recover, it will take 2+3 turns, 5 turns, for the Nymph to recover (assuming she moves. If she attacks in place, it takes only 4 turns to recover).

If a nymph controls a lightning ward, it would take her 5-6 turns to recover. And if she, for some silly reason, moves to an enemy cleric and uses it, she not only heals the opponents, but is forced to under go 7 turns of recovery.

... obviously, you're not going to use her to move and heal with clerics.

Because of her extended recovery time, the nymph has 30 HP rather than the originally intended 24.

Although it is debatable whether or not I should have her HP at 28 or not.

So: 28 or 30?
And are there any other suggestions for this somewhat out there unit?

[fragdemon]

With the release of the Furgon, we now have units with permanent effects on the field. This means the engine no longer simply handles the statistics flowing around for the units, but information about the condition of tiles themselves.

With that, there's a whole new array of options availiable to us losers who make ideas that nobody ever listens to. :D


Shaman
Removed
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First off, to understand a couple of things, if this unit lays a ward on an already occupied tile, the target instantly takes damage for being above a ward, so its like an unblockable melee attack. (The red area disappears over the mine as well.)

You yourself can also take damamge from a ward, so a ward pretty much acts like a mine.

And yes, you can step over these wards.

The real clincher with this unit is that the path taken from one point to another isn't under the player's control, but under the computer's control, so if you want to get to a point near the four possible wards, you'd have to take extra pains to make sure that the units don't walk over the marked tiles.

Plus, it adds for some guessing game strategy, because there's a 3/4 chance that it's not even going to matter, so you would have to work it out by figuring out what would be an enticing target for your opponent.

[Colwyn]

i like the mine field idea but i would think that it would make more sense to give the shaman the same firing range as the pyromancer and make all five tiles light up. this adds a range to the shaman but reduce the power to say 18 or 20.

[fragdemon]

Well, you have to remember the interface here.

When choosing where to target something, you click once to choose the actual area of the target, and one more time to confirm. There's no way you can choose first the target point, and then the position of the cross around there using those menus.

I'll work this out though, and get back to you on it.

[fragdemon]

Gargoyle
These fearsome creatures were once statues placed in temples to the dark gods. As certain dark orders grew stronger, they managed to fuse life into these creatures. The orders are now long gone, but the gargoyles they created still stand as a monument to the power they once had.

Statistics:
HP: 35
Power: 18
Armor: 15
Movement Range: 4
Recovery Time: 3

Attack Pattern:
- Slashes a single unit on an adjacent tile with its claws.

Special Abilities:
- 70% blocking (35% from the sides)
- While this unit is recovering, it has 0% blocking on all sides.
- While this unit is recovering, it has +30 armor.
- Teleportation.

Additional Information:
- While recovering, this does not allow friendly units to pass.
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I put about 10 minutes of thought into this unit, which is less than normal, so please feel free to point out any flaws.

The statistics were built on the mold that is the assassin. (As you can see, the base HP, damage, and blocking were retained). From there, I added benefits and penalties in order to make it gargoylish and balanced.

It's worth noting that "recovering" means "recovering." It does not mean idle, unused, paralyzed, etc.

At the beginning of the game, the unit is not recovering, and if its paralyzed, it still isn't recovering. As such, if you paralyze it, this unit won't get the armor bonus. If an Enchantress paralyzes this guy while he's recovering, he'll still get the armor bonus, but it will end as soon as his recovery time finishes.

With the slow recovery time, this unit isn't as useful as the assassin for cleric killing, but it is still useful in a different way as a guerilla unit, as it can penetrate defenses, and then, from behind enemy lines, it will be durable enough to survive whatever onslaught is given to it.

Note that if you can get a stone golem to cast a spell on this baby early on, you'll have a unit that has 75% armor while recovering (but only 45 normally, less than a Knight and a Stone Golem)


It's actually a rather ineffective unit in most setups. But if you have a team with two clerics (which was pretty popular about a month ago), this unit becomes amazingly durable.

[fragdemon]

Well, I'm bumping this, because I plan on making some units soon(based on the new Mud Golem mechanic... which expands game conventions by allowing for two attacks. Thing is I haven't seen a mud golem in action, so I'd have to look it up). Until then, I'd love to have some criticism on this thing.

[thgonace]

all good units dont like acoylt healing to much is a waste of a turn also i already have a gargoyle look at my unit at new unit ideas

[moosey2]

See thgonace Frags gargoyle is wayyyy better than yours because its unique and hes put some thought into to it. All yours does is move and attack nothing special about him at all.

[fragdemon]

Any other more complete criticism?

I'm waiting for the new Golem mechanic to appear in the rules before I post my units up, because I haven't played against it in game, so I know exactly what it does.

[Serge]

The nymph seems fairly useful. The shaman made ma head hurt. Still don't understand it. The gargoyle seems pretty useless. Don't listen to thgonace it's bad for the brain.

[fragdemon]

If you read the first post, the Shaman has been officially removed, I myself found that it gave me a headache.

By useless, do you mean that the gargoyle is underpowered? Or do you mean that there's no real worthwhile strategy using it for? (Underpowered means I have to re-think it; useless just means that it's never going to be a unit anyways, so I shouldn't have to bother)

[fragdemon]

Does anyone have any criticisms at all?

(And I don't just mean the old units, new units too)

[thgonace]

interesting unit but kinda squashed evrything out of them to make it fair i like fratilty but think it should be stronger and allow going past 0 possibly at the cost of durabilty another thing to take into accunt is the gargoyles durabilty with a cleric in stone mode it can be killed but would take about 6 turns more if you move into a area with only a few units

[sproose moose]

good unit its realy good its not over powered

[fragdemon]

Would you believe it? I'm back!

Anyways, if I understood what Sproosemoose and thgonace were saying, I'm sure I'd be thankful for their valued criticism.

Monk
Monks aren't warriors, but faithful men who have taken the weight of the world's sins on their shoulders. Through long penance, the monks work for the salvation of humanity as a whole.

Statistics:
HP: 28
Power: 5
Movement Range: 4
Recovery Time: 2

Attack Pattern:
- Heals one adjacent unit.

Special Abilities:
- All friendly units on the field have +10 armor until the monk dies.
- Whenever a friendly unit is damaged by an attack, the monk loses 2HP
- 50% blocking (25% from the sides)
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I had no idea about what the hell to base this on, so here you go, the first unit I've made and balanced stat by stat from scratch.

Since I have nothing to compare it to either, I have only a slight idea if this is balanced or not.


Essentially though, the monk is just a unit that channels all damage to every unit to itself. By keeping the monk in the back, you have pretty much a garunteed 10% of extra armor. And as long as you heal the monk for ever 6 attacks made, you're golden. Since the monk even gives armor to the cleric, the monk really makes your team more durable.

The 5HP heal is a meaningless move, but it could potentially come in handy. It's just there to make the monk a smidgen more useful.

[Bottle]

The monk is too powerful, hide him away behind the furgon's shrubs and send out stoned dragon, scouts and muddie, and they have 50% armor on average, so even a knight would take 4 attacks to kill a scout, and that's without healing.

[fragdemon]

That's what being a gray does to you...

I don't play with gold players often, so I'll often miss obvious strategies that a Gold would use.

I guess my not playing in a month also has some effect, I'll get to it and hopefully have the monk retooled (or rejected?) soon enough.

[Devine_Defender]

i did not do this but it is a kick@$$ idea i don't care what nobody says it is sweet
plusminus
made this one and i love it, only thing i can thing of it should be more of a focus thing where if u hit the demon the summoner doesn't get damaged u'll know what i'm talkinng about if u goto the link below


plusminus desighn (http://www.tacticsarena.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3669)
incase i messed up wit the link the url is

http://www.tacticsarena.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3669

[Lord Achilles]

Yeah, WAY too powerful, I agree.