The skill level of higher ranked players is not what it used to be.

[S_K_O_F]

ok...so this morning i decide to start a new grey account and see how I compare to the newest stock. turns out, I still have the grey magic.

I played 5 different grey players, all ranked 1100 or higher, and 1 that had a 1400 rating. I easily beat each and every one of them. Has the skill level dropped that much?

[dirka dirka]

Indeed, skill has gone down. That is why we are trying to rekindle an elite.

[legolas77]

I think cheating has replaced skill, most of those 1400's now cheat thier way up. I think a 900 player has more skill then most 1000 + people.

[dirka dirka]

I actually know for a fact someone in the top ten, who will remain without name, didn't earn their stats.

[MokoToko]

Why can you people not realize that it is the BOMB'S DOING?!

[legolas77]

well i will name one since i expeled him from my clan for cheating grim_reaper. He cheated his way up and when i saw his name in the top ten i expeled him and canceled the gold account i bought for him. it was a great disappointment to me.

[S_K_O_F]

Why can you people not realize that it is the BOMB'S DOING?!

I have realized it for a while my friend. I just haven't played for a while, and didn't realize the extent of the damage.

[MokoToko]

Aiye, right, the damage is VERY deep...and its getting unbelievably hard to find a game in GL even when there are 15 golds in the lobby!

[Hoolwath]

If you seek a true skill, come and see the good old BG. I have never cheated and wont. I reach 1400 as a grey whenever I want and have time, because I dont lose. I found several 1400s, though, who I beat by 8. All they do is not play BGers.

[S_K_O_F]

If you seek a true skill, come and see the good old BG. I have never cheated and wont. I reach 1400 as a grey whenever I want and have time, because I dont lose. I found several 1400s, though, who I beat by 8. All they do is not play BGers.

I am in BG!

[Krome]

Skill leavels today eh? What skill levels? Nobody apart from those who do not cheat or are long time players or both will often beat a decent rated person.

Since being here from December '03 to the present day I have seen many poeple suceed and fail on tao and many of the sucessors have gone much to many peoples sadness, but still I think the skill has gone down since back in the day a hell of a lot. I mean look at Army now, it's flourishing with n00bs, cheaters and spammers, you name it they got it. Anyone remember how army used to be? Full of skilled players.

Most 1300+ players these days are pathetic excuses for a match, the match is normally over in 5 minutes.

So yes S_K_O_F your question was answered.

-Krome

[sub the hendrix]

I've lost two games in the past 5 weeks to other greys, and that's a lot for me. Like Hool said, just ask for a game with old time BGers.

[lostandconfused]

Skill leavels today eh? What skill levels? Nobody apart from those who do not cheat or are long time players or both will often beat a decent rated person.

Since being here from December '03 to the present day I have seen many poeple suceed and fail on tao and many of the sucessors have gone much to many peoples sadness, but still I think the skill has gone down since back in the day a hell of a lot. I mean look at Army now, it's flourishing with n00bs, cheaters and spammers, you name it they got it. Anyone remember how army used to be? Full of skilled players.

Most 1300+ players these days are pathetic excuses for a match, the match is normally over in 5 minutes.

So yes S_K_O_F your question was answered.

-Krome
Exactly, which is why I stick to Rev now. Most of them, and yes I have asked, are 10ish years old. I think it's the cool lookin' dragon that brings 'em here. Meh.

[Krome]

Exactly, which is why I stick to Rev now. Most of them, and yes I have asked, are 10ish years old. I think it's the cool lookin' dragon that brings 'em here. Meh.

Indeed, thats why I prefer to go to Banff or GL.

[lostandconfused]

Indeed, thats why I prefer to go to Banff or GL.
I would, but I like my goldy color.

[sub the hendrix]

No, don't leave Army, you can save it!

I'll watch from across the servers in GL.

[Punishment Co.]

...


That's so true. I've played like 10 games as grey and I'm already in the near 1100's. Add to that is the oh-so-many disconnects I receive from my ridiculous wireless internet and that's a damn shame.

There's this guy that I used to "/stat" and his name is liberserk. He's a long-time player in Army and I even went to so far as to waiting for his match to finish, which unfortunately I grew tired of waiting and played Curveball. It would have been nice to catch-up..

I come on Army from time to time so I be's expectin' a match from you all punks.

[drakonfire]

i haven't played an actualy game in a couple months, but whenever i do start my account back up, i inevitably get jumped by someone with at least 900+ stats and i've lost once the past few times its happened, the relative skill level has gone WAY down, if however you do find the elite crowd, things could change, especially if those of you who still play (i would, but i've lost the dedication i once had) could pick up the ones who seem to show promise, and direct them to the forums and teach them, then perhaps the skill level can be kicked back up a notch or two

[Dragoen Link]

...Now a days,stats are so much easier to get also...thats why a lot of ppl cheat,and they tell each other HOW to cheat...witch just makes even more...argg..it will never end.I depend on Good Game's in netjak's and BG's and of course theres the odd vet..but,most of them that are just comming back are still rusty...It takes a while to readjust.

[Hoolwath]

What would be the skill drop be caused by in your opinion then?

[S_K_O_F]

...Now a days,stats are so much easier to get also...thats why a lot of ppl cheat,and they tell each other HOW to cheat...witch just makes even more...argg..it will never end.I depend on Good Game's in netjak's and BG's and of course theres the odd vet..but,most of them that are just comming back are still rusty...It takes a while to readjust.

right...I was very rusty when I started playing this morning. I made numerous mistakes that I was afraid would ruin the match for me. But the 1100 grey would not take advantage and I would end up destroying him.

The closest match I had happened when i purposely allowed an opponent to kill my cleric just to make it more difficult. I had already killed 2 of his knights and his scout before my clerics death. He had 2 clerics! He ended up beating me by 1 unit.

Had I not allowed him to kill my cleric, he would have been forced to surrender within the next couple of moves.

[Doctor Love]

Indeed, skill has gone down. That is why we are trying to rekindle an elite.
I'll be back when I'm ungrounded. ;)

[Punishment Co.]

I'll be back when I'm ungrounded. ;)

You planning on beating me yet? :wink2:

[Doctor Love]

You planning on battling me yet? ;)

[Dragoen Link]

Arggg...i WANT the skill the be back...i never faught the old schoolers...i wasent gold..grrrr...maybe we COULD make a clan with only old schoolers and then we could get the skill back up there..teaching the new noobs of course..as anoying as that would be..

[Punishment Co.]

Anytime, catch me on Army or on Rev... just don't pull a *TN* on me or else :threaten:

[Doctor Love]

Arggg...i WANT the skill the be back...i never faught the old schoolers...i wasent gold..grrrr...maybe we COULD make a clan with only old schoolers and then we could get the skill back up there..teaching the new noobs of course..as anoying as that would be..
You're not old school, Captain March 2005.
Anytime, catch me on Army or on Rev... just don't pull a *TN* on me or else :threaten:
And what is a *TN*? Cheating? :confused:
I've been grounded way to long.

[Dragoen Link]

F U,just because i joined the forums in march 2005 dosent mean im not an old school u newb!Ask anyone that played back in the day!Pfff insulting.

[Doctor Love]

I played back in the day. Nice grammar and spelling by the way. Oh and a newb is someone who is new to something, and I've been here longer than you.

[Dragoen Link]

Oh,Have you now mr.perfect?

[Doctor Love]

Yes, and call me Mr. Perfect.

[Dragoen Link]

When Exacly did you join TAO?

[Megabyte]

ok, i've read a lot of the posts..but i'm just gonna comment on the first post question..

As more players and more time happens, the higher skilled players ranks increase. This means that while 1400 was "da bomb" a year ago, it doesn't mean much now.

If your higher skilled you gotta show it by getting even higher.

What was it for the chess federation? 2000 (maybe 2100 or 2200...i can't remember for sure) to be called a chess master. Under that system, there are no TAO masters yet.

edit: and Love is formerly Sir Vival, one of the early golds from the '03 days of TAO....the noob

[Hatchet Warrior]

Skill has gone down, but I have kept playing the same way I did when I started.

[WaCk-HeAd]

Skill went down?
Hell Yeah.

I can hardly find anyone who's able to give me a decent challenge in a turtle game. Let alone a grey game.

Let it be known.
I challenge EVERYONE for a grey match to show me I'm not the best grey.

[Hoolwath]

Erm... go to GL right now, seek -slyer4-, yea thats me.

[Punishment Co.]

I'll take you up on that, wackster; gold turtle with certain restrictions and grey. Woohoo! At least I might get a good game out of wack since this sister vivian guy would probably walk around unknowingly.

[Hatchet Warrior]

wack, I proved that last time :D
I'll stay out of this one this time.

[Doctor Love]

When Exacly did you join TAO?
I joined the forums back then (http://www.tacticsarena.com/forum/member.php?u=1695), but I played TAO for awhile before I joined. If I recall I joined a few days before Dragonfire was created on Armageddon.
Hatchet, you can beat Wack! I can beat you. I can't beat Wack. Somethings wrong.

[WaCk-HeAd]

wack, I proved that last time :D
I'll stay out of this one this time.

Haha have you EVER beaten me?

I highly doubt it.

But it's good to know I know I've beaten you WAY more than you have beaten me (IF you beat me once).

And I'll be right there in GL.

[Dragoen Link]

Wel there ya go,ive got 1 month on ya buddy,so dont be saying im not an old schooler.Cause i wasent gold dosent mean anything!And hell yea wack,were due for another game .

[Doctor Love]

You can't have one month on me, Dragonfire was created around a week or two after TAO began. Now, you're obviously a n00b, so just be quiet.

[Hatchet Warrior]

I've beaten you twice, you've gotten me 3 times.

[Doctor Love]

I've beaten you twice, you've gotten me 3 times.
And I've beaten you twice, and you've gotten me zero times. :)

[Hatchet Warrior]

you get lucky. Your damn blocking kills me lol

[Doctor Love]

Don't you remember our last game? Where I got almost no frontal blocks against you? Then at the end of the game you tried saying I got lucky and I explained that you were the one who got lucky, and you said "Oh yea". I admit the first game I did get lucky, but the second, no. :)

[Dragoen Link]

Pff,you joined in dec.2003 according to that *back then* u got there,i joined in nov.2003,unless that *back then*is wrong.

[Hatchet Warrior]

I got mad frontals on you, but your side blocks were nuts

[Doctor Love]

I joined the forums then, but I was playing the game before. However, you could very well be right, but could you show me the profile of your account that joined in November?
I got mad frontals on you, but your side blocks were nuts
I don't remember, but either way if you want me to beat you again and prove you wrong I'll be happy too. ;)

[Dragoen Link]

I told you,i joined the forums when i became gold three months ago.All the proof i have is ppl like shiny flors and cavour and all them.

[Doctor Love]

I trust Shiny and I'll ask him later, so I guess it was my mistake. Sorry mate, just that your grammar and such kinda pre-labels you. ;)

[Dragoen Link]

Lol,because im dumb dosent mean im dumb....arg..well i hope you know what i mean. ;P
My apologies also,i just get frustrated now a days,cause i missed out on all the action.

[insignifiGant]

...Now a days,stats are so much easier to get also...thats why a lot of ppl cheat,and they tell each other HOW to cheat...witch just makes even more...argg..it will never end.I depend on Good Game's in netjak's and BG's and of course theres the odd vet..but,most of them that are just comming back are still rusty...It takes a while to readjust.
Yeah... I still haven't beaten a rush yet... 'course I haven't made an anti, so I've always had turtles or "fun," odd formations.

That and I haven't tried rushing.

[Dragoen Link]

You should try it one day,it acctually makes the game more interesting,sure it depends on luck a lot more,but its different and thats what players need sometimes to get back in there.I use to be all turt,but then i got sick of only being able to get a fair game once in a while,cause i always got rushed right,so i learned to rush and anti..i find anti's work a lot better tho. :D

[Hoolwath]

Wack beaten by his first challenger. Where are the reps? :wink2:

[WaCk-HeAd]

Erm... go to GL right now, seek -slyer4-, yea thats me.

Hey, I tried to meet you back at GL and tried to join for about FOREVER, but didn't see you when I finally got in.

My laptop crashed, it happens a lot (ask around), and I know it sounds like an excuse, but believe me when I tell you I'm more pissed off than you. Simply because I have to declare you the winner right now because of your advantage.
We'll play again, catch me on Rev or Banff because I'm not going to spend FOREVER to try and get back into GL again.

[Lipsoidal.]

ok...so this morning i decide to start a new grey account and see how I compare to the newest stock. turns out, I still have the grey magic.

I played 5 different grey players, all ranked 1100 or higher, and 1 that had a 1400 rating. I easily beat each and every one of them. Has the skill level dropped that much?

the word is gray. the word "grey" doesnt exist. sheesh skof. lol

And yea, i noticed that too. I was playing on my gray and it just seems like no grays are good anymore. I think it should be mandatory that all vets have a gray account. So gray can be fun again. I swear ive flawlessed so many 100 +'s its uncountable. Everyone is rushing as gray now. Old school, frankly, just pwns. The new "good peoples" gray rushes dont even come close.

[Hoolwath]

No problem, Wack. Its hard to find a good battle for me these days. If you say you d/ced, I trust you. I am ready to rematch you at any time. Again, no problem, want me to edit my last post?

[WaCk-HeAd]

Nah, you had a good advantage.

Wouldn't say the game was over, but if I had to declare a winner at that point, I'd choose you.

[Hoolwath]

the word is gray. the word "grey" doesnt exist. sheesh skof. lol

And yea, i noticed that too. I was playing on my gray and it just seems like no grays are good anymore. I think it should be mandatory that all vets have a gray account. So gray can be fun again. I swear ive flawlessed so many 100 +'s its uncountable. Everyone is rushing as gray now. Old school, frankly, just pwns. The new "good peoples" gray rushes dont even come close.

Again, Lips, I will pwn you if you want me to. I am not an old school player, I started playing only in september. I dont see any good grays rush. I have to go now, but I give you my word that I will find you. Enjoy till then. :)

[Spit_101]

iceman2001 - 1500+ gold. Beat my turtle by rushing, he had 17 and 16 HP knights, and a full ambusher. When I turtled him, I got his muddie and he gave up.

Lord Sesshomaru - 1480+ gold. Got his scout/frost/furgy. He got my mud, he surrenders.

Steve12 - 1420+ gold. Got his cleric and de-stoned him. He gave up.

And my ranking went from 1401 to 1427

S_K_O_F is correct that the skill level is dropping when their stats get higher.

The first time I beat a gold with my grey was back in February of 2004, monkey1 (on Army), all I had left was a 20 HP knight, his ranking was 1056. Yesterday, I face a 1004 gold, hydro4 (on Banff, I'm not sure that was his name). I had a full witch, assassin, chanty, 2 knights, and scout left when I beat him.

(Not a bragging post, just showing the skill level of players through the months of TAO.)

[S_K_O_F]

the word is gray. the word "grey" doesnt exist. sheesh skof. lol

And yea, i noticed that too. I was playing on my gray and it just seems like no grays are good anymore. I think it should be mandatory that all vets have a gray account. So gray can be fun again. I swear ive flawlessed so many 100 +'s its uncountable. Everyone is rushing as gray now. Old school, frankly, just pwns. The new "good peoples" gray rushes dont even come close.

no...the word is GREY!

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=grey

and...if you had been around for any time at all, you would know that that is the general spelling used when describing grey accounts.

if you are going to correct me, then at least correct me when I am actually wrong.

n00b

[S_K_O_F]

btw...i am only talking about grey accounts here. if a grey manages to get to 1400+ stats, that is still really impressive. With the accounts being wiped, it is still a feat to reach 1400.

What I am saying is that 6 months ago, a 1400+ grey was an extremely good challenge. It seems to me now that the overall skill level has fallen enough that mediocre players can reach that height now.

[dirka dirka]

Could be cause alot of golds suck, and greys beat them easy. Considering they get some stats, even though they suck, and keep them... the greys would get up higher quicker. Just a theory, truly not plausable. I have noticed the lack of skill these days though.

[Punishment Co.]

..or simply they have more freetime than others.

I'm still waiting, Wack. I can play on any of the servers.. but I can't stand the stench that is known as GL and Bannif :D :D

[WaCk-HeAd]

I'm on Rev playing Meat.eater, I'll be more than ready after this game.

[xerent]

F U,just because i joined the forums in march 2005 dosent mean im not an old school u newb!Ask anyone that played back in the day!Pfff insulting.
I've never heard of you. ^^

[Kyir]

I am in BG!

or are you...

[S_K_O_F]

or are you...

I will always be a BG/Elite

The Elite is my home, but BG is my vacation spot.

[Kyir]

Gold skill has definatly dropped, I killed 2 1300 golds yesterday (to remain un named) and then got jumped by a 1200 gray and came quite close to tieing (he made a chanty mistake) I think Many grays that have not been realised by the community are quite good, and many of them seem to remain clanless (I expect mocking from almost tieing with a gray, so kill me)

[S_K_O_F]

Gold skill has definatly dropped, I killed 2 1300 golds yesterday (to remain un named) and then got jumped by a 1200 gray and came quite close to tieing (he made a chanty mistake) I think Many grays that have not been realised by the community are quite good, and many of them seem to remain clanless (I expect mocking from almost tieing with a gray, so kill me)

I lost to a grey last time I played with my gold account.

Like 3 or 4 months ago

[Megabyte]

I like all the talk of how skilled golding = turtles. Ok...you ppl playing for so long (*snicker*) realize there are more than turtles out there?

What good is your talk on skill if thats all you try?

edit: and I lose to my first grey on my golds in almost 8 months last week...damn u shaman!!!

[xerent]

Hey now, I actually played rushes before the rush was invented.

Take it from me, Turtling, or strange formations (EG: All Chanty) take much more skill then rushing.

Hence, it's common, and fairly accurate to say turtle == skill.

[S_K_O_F]

I like all the talk of how skilled golding = turtles. Ok...you ppl playing for so long (*snicker*) realize there are more than turtles out there?

What good is your talk on skill if thats all you try?

edit: and I lose to my first grey on my golds in almost 8 months last week...damn u shaman!!!

turtling is king!!! :mad:


all other forms are for losers!!! :dry:

*takes away Mega's trout* :p

[Lipsoidal.]

no...the word is GREY!

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=grey

and...if you had been around for any time at all, you would know that that is the general spelling used when describing grey accounts.

if you are going to correct me, then at least correct me when I am actually wrong.

n00b


'gray1 also grey' MEANING: "gray" is the correct term but "grey" is an accepted term. Not the actual term. lol.


"and...if you had been around for any time at all, you would know that that is the general spelling used when describing grey accounts."

that wasnt directed at me was it?

[S_K_O_F]

'gray1 also grey' MEANING: "gray" is the correct term but "grey" is an accepted term. Not the actual term. lol.


"and...if you had been around for any time at all, you would know that that is the general spelling used when describing grey accounts."

that wasnt directed at me was it?

yeah...

hence the "and"

[Megabyte]

*takes out another trout and goes trouting for ewoks* :p

turtling is fun, and its all good, but its not alone in the game is my point ;)

I prefer a good spread myself.

[S_K_O_F]

*takes out another trout and goes trouting for ewoks* :p

turtling is fun, and its all good, but its not alone in the game is my point ;)

I prefer a good spread myself.


*peaks around from hiding place*

You are delusional. Turtling is the only way to go!

[xerent]

Exactly.

Rushing is for people who don't know how to turtle. ^_^.

[S_K_O_F]

Exactly.

Rushing is for people who don't know how to turtle. ^_^.
:D :bigsmile:

[Megabyte]

Exactly.

Rushing is for people who don't know how to turtle. ^_^.

gah, middle ground ppl!

check out my site

even if its out of date...and not looked upon by me anymore...it still has setups there that are not turtles or rushes. Those are good examples

[Punishment Co.]

Purplecrayon once showed me a screeny of a 'rush' form way and in the lobby, the people were This Celluloid Dream, -=Z=-, and some other grandpas.

So.. I say he's also one of the earliest rushers

RUSHING IS FOR LOZERS

[Lipsoidal.]

yeah...

hence the "and"


You do know im meat.eater right?

[MokoToko]

Turtles take muuuch more skill...who could have fun trading blows with each other and have a game end in 10 minutes??

[WaCk-HeAd]

Oh My God!

Where have you all been the last 5 months when I had to defend Turtling to all those noob rushers!

God, I love you all.

[Punishment Co.]

Disconnect!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

now it's just giving me the connection refused

I want a rematch, n00bie! Let's go to any of the home servers I cant get on Rev

[WaCk-HeAd]

I already wondered why you didn't respond..

Want to try again?

You excuse making noob!
HA! Disconnecting or laptop crashes are just lame excuses

*cough*

[devast8]

Exactly.

Rushing is for people who don't know how to turtle. ^_^.

False.

Players who choose to rush know that if they use a turtle, they will likely face a rush in battle. Thus, turtle matches are regularly set before match nowadays.

[Realist]

I've always liked rushes myself; more exciting and quickly-paced. Obviously the high ranked players of old won't like them because it is an entire different style of game than the one they are good at. And it in no way explains why there are weaker high ranked players now.

One innocuous reason for grey rating inflation is that there are simply so many more players. All grey servers have around 40 players in the lobby for some 12 hours a day. That never used to happen. More players means more games means more chances to increase stats means the average stats are higher means its easier to get higher stats. This doesn't mean there aren't as many good players, just that certain ratings won't mean what they used to.

[WaCk-HeAd]

I'm disappointed that you didn't respond to my provocations Realist.

[dirka dirka]

False.

Players who choose to rush know that if they use a turtle, they will likely face a rush in battle. Thus, turtle matches are regularly set before match nowadays.

False

Rushing is for people who don't know how to turtle. There are not many who know how to turtle that enjoy a rush. I'm sure there are a few though.

[S_K_O_F]

You do know im meat.eater right?

I do now. :dry:

[devast8]

False

Rushing is for people who don't know how to turtle. There are not many who know how to turtle that enjoy a rush. I'm sure there are a few though.

Not necessarily. I'm sure most can agree with me when I say that waiting for a battle with a turtle setup is idiotic. Trust me. If I personally was waiting for a match (waiting to get jumped by a rush), I wouldn't have a turtle as my setup. It would rather be a rush or an anti rush.

It's cute that you're sticking up for a moderator, but either way you're wrong. Most/all turtle matches are set up before hand. I can turtle but I choose to rush/anti rush because I know that's most likely the only setup(s) I'd stand a good chance of winning with.

[sub the hendrix]

Yes.

I say there should be a floor on rev that requires you to have a stone in your setup. That would solve things nicely.

[MokoToko]

I've always liked rushes myself; more exciting and quickly-paced. Obviously the high ranked players of old won't like them because it is an entire different style of game than the one they are good at. And it in no way explains why there are weaker high ranked players now.

One innocuous reason for grey rating inflation is that there are simply so many more players. All grey servers have around 40 players in the lobby for some 12 hours a day. That never used to happen. More players means more games means more chances to increase stats means the average stats are higher means its easier to get higher stats. This doesn't mean there aren't as many good players, just that certain ratings won't mean what they used to.

DAMN YOU AND YOUR LOGIC...

I will have to agree with Realist on this one

but rushes still take less skill than turtle

[Warcow]

ok...so this morning i decide to start a new grey account and see how I compare to the newest stock. turns out, I still have the grey magic.

I played 5 different grey players, all ranked 1100 or higher, and 1 that had a 1400 rating. I easily beat each and every one of them. Has the skill level dropped that much?

I've noticed it too, and it most certainly isn't exlcusive to greys, the Golds with really high stats aren't always that great either. (Not saying that some at the top aren't amazing)

When I was playing seriously and all the time on GL there were only 41 people on great lakes that could give me two or more points, and 16 that could give me 3.

Pretty sad eh?

[dirka dirka]

Not necessarily. I'm sure most can agree with me when I say that waiting for a battle with a turtle setup is idiotic. Trust me. If I personally was waiting for a match (waiting to get jumped by a rush), I wouldn't have a turtle as my setup. It would rather be a rush or an anti rush.

It's cute that you're sticking up for a moderator, but either way you're wrong. Most/all turtle matches are set up before hand. I can turtle but I choose to rush/anti rush because I know that's most likely the only setup(s) I'd stand a good chance of winning with.

Yeap... and? That has nothing to do with anything. Obviously the majority rush, cause they have little turtle skill, and thats why you wouldn't wait for a battle with a turtle. Turtling takes more skill.

Cute that i'm sticking up for a mod? Well, not to say xerent isn't sexy or anything, but I am sticking up for turtles!

[Megabyte]

DAMN YOU AND YOUR LOGIC...

I will have to agree with Realist on this one

but rushes still take less skill than turtle

just because it takes different skill, doesn't mean it takes less :p

It takes a lot of skill to know how to move each unit to maximize its outgoing damage, and to make each unit last as long as possible. Since you play on a clock really with rushes (as they're not made to last that long in games), you gotta have each move and attack done properly.

[dirka dirka]

just because it takes different skill, doesn't mean it takes less :p
It takes less skill to rush. Even in the best of rusher's heads they do not plan every possible outcome. Proof? Look at the name, "rush." In a turtling everything is simply planned out, and that takes skill.

[Megabyte]

tedious skill though, and it allows for mistakes. Rushes take much faster planning and turn usage. Turtles i can afford to lax a bit usually, especially with furgon turtles.

Its not like they're playing a different games, LOS, turn planning, damage knowledge, its all used.

[dirka dirka]

tedious skill though, and it allows for mistakes. Rushes take much faster planning and turn usage. Turtles i can afford to lax a bit usually, especially with furgon turtles.

Its not like they're playing a different games, LOS, turn planning, damage knowledge, its all used.

You don't understand the meaning of rush do you? It means the turn planning is alot more impulsive, meaning everything couldn't be taken into consideration.

[Swartzstrom]

ok...so this morning i decide to start a new grey account and see how I compare to the newest stock. turns out, I still have the grey magic.

I played 5 different grey players, all ranked 1100 or higher, and 1 that had a 1400 rating. I easily beat each and every one of them. Has the skill level dropped that much?

This is why I don't actually play the game anymore. I'm just a Forumer these days.

[Megabyte]

You don't understand the meaning of rush do you? It means the turn planning is alot more impulsive, meaning everything couldn't be taken into consideration.

But your taking the meaning too literally. The turn planning i think should be impulsive, for any setup. You gotta adapt to your situations, not just go through the motions of playing.

And don't say it couldn't, thats pretty open to debate. I plan out multiple attacks if i rush, in case something backfire.

And why am i the only one defending the rush? I don't even rush!

[dirka dirka]

But your taking the meaning too literally. The turn planning i think should be impulsive, for any setup. You gotta adapt to your situations, not just go through the motions of playing.

And don't say it couldn't, thats pretty open to debate. I plan out multiple attacks if i rush, in case something backfire.

And why am i the only one defending the rush? I don't even rush!
EXACTLY, it takes skill, but not experience and planning. I won't deny luck as a skill.

[insignifiGant]

EXACTLY, it takes skill, but not experience and planning. I won't deny luck as a skill.
luck isn't a skill...

calculated risk? maybe.

[Realist]

Its so silly to say that rushes take little skill...if it was true, there would be no major variations in the stats of rushers (ok, not necessarily, but you know what I mean).

If a superb rusher goes against a just pretty good rusher, I'd easily bet on the former. Why? Because still does matter and does matter a lot.

What IS true is that a top tier turtler will hardly every lose to a pretty great turtler, while a pretty great rusher can beat a top tier rusher if they get good setups and luck. This is what makes rush games more exciting than turtle games, and this is what the anti-rushers really mean when they say that rushing doesn't take skill. I know that I will win 97% of grey turt games I play because I'm just better than everyone else; with rushes there is a lot more suspense.

[Realist]

I'm disappointed that you didn't respond to my provocations Realist.

I don't have the patience for grey games vs. good players these days. :mad:

Maybe I'll be willing to destroy you grey vs. grey if I see you on.

[Spit_101]

I turtle most of the time. Antirush sometimes, and rarely rush.

I'm fine with rushers like crx, allstar, and FryLock. But atleast they TURTLE too! I hate 1500 golds on GL who are afraid to turtle another player because they aren't 'good' at it. Turtling takes time to learn, and lots of planning. But rushing can take planning as well. At the earlier point of the game in most rushing games I find that the opponent can make about 7 different moves if he wanted to, and all of them would work sucessfully. In turtling, taking one certain move can sway the game. I'm not saying rushing takes no skill, it just takes less skill. And all of these new players are all caught up in quick games. Yet they sit in the TAO lobby 6 hours a day.

[dirka dirka]

luck isn't a skill...

calculated risk? maybe.
That depends... for some, luck is a skill, those people that are very lucky. Its truly not a "skill" but ya know?

[Realist]

I'm fine with rushers like crx, allstar, and FryLock. But atleast they TURTLE too! I hate 1500 golds on GL who are afraid to turtle another player because they aren't 'good' at it.

There are far more 1500+ golds who are afraid to rush other players.

[FryLock]

Well, I'm glad some people are realizing that I turtle, too! I will be the 1st to admit that I came to power (and, well, have stayed in power) via the rush. Nowadays though, the games I enjoy the most are when I'm using an anti-rush or a turtle. I'm especially growing fond of anti vs. anti games. It's a whole new twist on the grey turtle game.

And I've also become fairly decent at turtle. While I may not be at the Bottle, SKOF or Wack-Head level, I've been able to take down quite a few people.

But back to the main point of this thread - yes, I too agree that the skill level has gone down. Or rather, some uses of the new units have obviated the need for golds to be as skilled as they should be. Case in point, I just played a fellow on banff named "Sargant Dan." Now, as a threshold issue, anyone who can't properly spell "Sergeant" correctly should be easy pickings. However, he happened to have a mud/wisp/bush combo on my side, so my cleric was gone early. He proceeded to hit on just about every front and side shot he took, too. He made silly moves and took stupid risks that would have cost him the game, had my units blocked, or if his hadn't. But, luck was with him.

In the end, I got him down to a knight fight, and his guy FINALLY didn't block, giving me a real squeaker of a win. But the fact is, that game shouldn't have been close. The new units may level the playing field, but that's not what this should be about. It should be about careful planning and movement, orchestrating the units for a good solid attack, not hammering away with front shots. The skill level has gone down, simply because there's not as much need for skill any more.

/rant. Well, in any case, I will be happy to turtle (and probably lose to) any of you folks on rev. :)

[The Exile]

OK, I'd like to make three points on the topics brought up here.

Firstly, about high ratings not meaning as much now. This is because FPS moves in a (more or less) monthly cycle. An example: during each cycle, greys will take say 10000 rating (combined) off all the golds. Golds will take about 20000 rating (combined) off greys. Greys get wiped, process repeats. Those extra 10000 rating points gained by golds are spread around all the golds. Average rating increases by say 20 per month. Therefore a 1300 rating a year ago is the same as a 1500 rating now. If you've been away for a year, and you play a 1300 now, it will have a similar skill level to a 1100 that you're used to. Hence you will think skill levels have decreased.

Secondly, on the rush/turtle aspect. It is undenyable that turtling separates those who are good at it from those who are bad at it. In 90%+ of turtle matches, the better player at turtling will win. If the players are of equal skill, it often comes down to either blocking, who gets first turn, or who makes a mistake/good move, but the slightly better player will still usually (75%ish) win. If you get a freestyle match, 85% will depend on who is the better player, 15% on formations (some formations are simply too advantageous for skill to overcome). If you get two players of similar skill, 80% of it is decided by who has better formation. 10% by blocking, and 10% by who makes a good move/has slightly more skill. The freestlye game makes it simply more random who will win if you have two equal players. And I say this as both a freestyler and a turtler with no real preference for either on FPS (although with one scout, turtle is infinitely better and depends almost entirely on skill no matter what how close the skill levels are).

Finally, I'd like to add that this randomness in freestyle games (the most common nowadays) between two good players who know how to play will result in a very high rating being nigh impossible to get, since you can't be assured of winning every game, and at a certain stage (about 1750 I believe, or 1350 on Rev) you need to win 10 games just to regain the points you lose for 1 game decided by formation.

[Warcow]

OK, I'd like to make three points on the topics brought up here.

Firstly, about high ratings not meaning as much now. This is because FPS moves in a (more or less) monthly cycle. An example: during each cycle, greys will take say 10000 rating (combined) off all the golds. Golds will take about 20000 rating (combined) off greys. Greys get wiped, process repeats. Those extra 10000 rating points gained by golds are spread around all the golds. Average rating increases by say 20 per month. Therefore a 1300 rating a year ago is the same as a 1500 rating now. If you've been away for a year, and you play a 1300 now, it will have a similar skill level to a 1100 that you're used to. Hence you will think skill levels have decreased.

Secondly, on the rush/turtle aspect. It is undenyable that turtling separates those who are good at it from those who are bad at it. In 90%+ of turtle matches, the better player at turtling will win. If the players are of equal skill, it often comes down to either blocking, who gets first turn, or who makes a mistake/good move, but the slightly better player will still usually (75%ish) win. If you get a freestyle match, 85% will depend on who is the better player, 15% on formations (some formations are simply too advantageous for skill to overcome). If you get two players of similar skill, 80% of it is decided by who has better formation. 10% by blocking, and 10% by who makes a good move/has slightly more skill. The freestlye game makes it simply more random who will win if you have two equal players. And I say this as both a freestyler and a turtler with no real preference for either on FPS (although with one scout, turtle is infinitely better and depends almost entirely on skill no matter what how close the skill levels are).

Finally, I'd like to add that this randomness in freestyle games (the most common nowadays) between two good players who know how to play will result in a very high rating being nigh impossible to get, since you can't be assured of winning every game, and at a certain stage (about 1750 I believe, or 1350 on Rev) you need to win 10 games just to regain the points you lose for 1 game decided by formation.


I guess that makes me 1950 :cool:

[The Exile]

I know your post was a joke, so I'm not going to point out that the figures in my post were entirely made up and approximated.

Oops, already have. :)

In any case, according to my final point, 1950 is "nigh impossible". :)

[drakonfire]

not experience and planning.

this is to me, stupid, when a rush becomes a madhouse of random moves that look good for that turn, then the game has degenerated to the point of a slow RTS... I've read quite a few clancy books in my day, and one of my favorites was Rainbow Six, (if you haven't read it, think SWAT on steroids) now here was the thing, most of their "operations" took less than 3 minutes to resolve, 3 freakin minutes (those were the long ones, most usually took under 30 seconds) was this "rushing" or just amazingly good planning? yeah... planning, a skilled rusher will know wth he is gonna do 3 moves from now, to deny that a skilled rusher plans his moves is to set yourself up for a loss... and any rusher who plays that style and doesn't plan ahead is setting himself up for lots of losses... as i see it, the point of a rush is to have your moves so coordinated and to strike so fast you leave you opponent wasting is turn clock going "wha...?"

[EatMine]

Ok, here is my 2c on the "skill dropping" issue ...

Edit: While i was typing this, there were some other good comments, so here is the short version:

Gold fighting is all about setup nowadays.
With currently at least 7 long range units, mostly not caring about obstacles or LOS, its definetly not the time anymore to become a decent turtler. And i am absolutely sure that there is no "anti-rush", that can prolong the life of the cleric for more than 4 moves (which of course makes the term "anti-rush" look silly ...)
Ok, i read all that trash talk about sacrifying the cleric in exchange for 4 rushing units, then killing opponent´s cleric and "easily" winning the game, but at the end, if you face a reasonably good player, thats all crap. Most of the time he will get away with 3 lost units at most and major damage to your own units and you have to start rushing then with your "anti-rush" or he will retreat and finish you off one by one with scouts ... which makes the game completely dependent on blocking luck.
Not my type of game! Neither is the only available counter-strategy: setting up a rush too and begging for the start move and some dragon blocks!
Besides all that "skills/no skills"-talk, its plain statistics that you cannot assure victory over the majority of (weaker) opponents (like the game used to be ..)


Ok, in my opinion these are the reasons for you "old-schoolers" to feel like skill level is dropping:

Like i said, fighting is all about setup now, and finding a good "universal"-form is much more complex like it used to be. So people with experience often face forms now, who dont stand a chance, even if the "skill level" on the other side is much higher ...
Stat/skill-ratio dropped because of the introduction of the GA and wisp, which means fighting a 1400 is not the same compared to 6 months ago.
No disrespect, but i highly doubt that anyone from the current top10 could reach "1800" points nowadays with a new account. Its simply impossible due to the fact, that every 1300 throws boulders on your cleric and gets this critical knight front hit every other game. So even if you manage to win 9 out of 10 games, number 10 is ruining your stats.
This leads to the current situation: everybody gets to 1400, the good players are all settling down at around 1500, maybe 1600 if they are carefully choosing their opponents and the few above simply stay there because they just fight against themselves ...
The game gets bigger and bigger and attracts constantly more people, who of course lack experience.

[Dragoen Link]

I bealive that anyone in top 20 should be able to play any style.A true tao master should be able to be most ppl with any set.Just my opinion.

[Warcow]

Sorry Drak, your example actually applies more to turtles than rushes. The actual time elapsed in the situation isn't important, the strategies are. How many times were the men in those novels plunked down hoping they were in the right spot to exploit a weakness? There was always planning in their strategy, and it was never a full frontal war. They always have to penetrate a relatively well established defensive position with superior tactics and brilliant maneuvering. Never do they take out their enemy by simply having bigger guns and killing faster.

[Warcow]

Ok, here is my 2c on the "skill dropping" issue ...

Edit: While i was typing this, there were some other good comments, so here is the short version:

Gold fighting is all about setup nowadays.
With currently at least 7 long range units, mostly not caring about obstacles or LOS, its definetly not the time anymore to become a decent turtler. And i am absolutely sure that there is no "anti-rush", that can prolong the life of the cleric for more than 4 moves (which of course makes the term "anti-rush" look silly ...)
Ok, i read all that trash talk about sacrifying the cleric in exchange for 4 rushing units, then killing opponent´s cleric and "easily" winning the game, but at the end, if you face a reasonably good player, thats all crap. Most of the time he will get away with 3 lost units at most and major damage to your own units and you have to start rushing then with your "anti-rush" or he will retreat and finish you off one by one with scouts ... which makes the game completely dependent on blocking luck.
Not my type of game! Neither is the only available counter-strategy: setting up a rush too and begging for the start move and some dragon blocks!
Besides all that "skills/no skills"-talk, its plain statistics that you cannot assure victory over the majority of (weaker) opponents (like the game used to be ..)


Ok, in my opinion these are the reasons for you "old-schoolers" to feel like skill level is dropping:

Like i said, fighting is all about setup now, and finding a good "universal"-form is much more complex like it used to be. So people with experience often face forms now, who dont stand a chance, even if the "skill level" on the other side is much higher ...
Stat/skill-ratio dropped because of the introduction of the GA and wisp, which means fighting a 1400 is not the same compared to 6 months ago.
No disrespect, but i highly doubt that anyone from the current top10 could reach "1800" points nowadays with a new account. Its simply impossible due to the fact, that every 1300 throws boulders on your cleric and gets this critical knight front hit every other game. So even if you manage to win 9 out of 10 games, number 10 is ruining your stats.
This leads to the current situation: everybody gets to 1400, the good players are all settling down at around 1500, maybe 1600 if they are carefully choosing their opponents and the few above simply stay there because they just fight against themselves ...
The game gets bigger and bigger and attracts constantly more people, who of course lack experience.


I'd dissagree, CRX did it very recently on GL, and he beats people consistantly in rush games.

[axident]

OK, I'd like to make three points on the topics brought up here.

Firstly, about high ratings not meaning as much now. This is because FPS moves in a (more or less) monthly cycle. An example: during each cycle, greys will take say 10000 rating (combined) off all the golds. Golds will take about 20000 rating (combined) off greys. Greys get wiped, process repeats. Those extra 10000 rating points gained by golds are spread around all the golds. Average rating increases by say 20 per month. Therefore a 1300 rating a year ago is the same as a 1500 rating now. If you've been away for a year, and you play a 1300 now, it will have a similar skill level to a 1100 that you're used to. Hence you will think skill levels have decreased.

Secondly, on the rush/turtle aspect. It is undenyable that turtling separates those who are good at it from those who are bad at it. In 90%+ of turtle matches, the better player at turtling will win. If the players are of equal skill, it often comes down to either blocking, who gets first turn, or who makes a mistake/good move, but the slightly better player will still usually (75%ish) win. If you get a freestyle match, 85% will depend on who is the better player, 15% on formations (some formations are simply too advantageous for skill to overcome). If you get two players of similar skill, 80% of it is decided by who has better formation. 10% by blocking, and 10% by who makes a good move/has slightly more skill. The freestlye game makes it simply more random who will win if you have two equal players. And I say this as both a freestyler and a turtler with no real preference for either on FPS (although with one scout, turtle is infinitely better and depends almost entirely on skill no matter what how close the skill levels are).

Finally, I'd like to add that this randomness in freestyle games (the most common nowadays) between two good players who know how to play will result in a very high rating being nigh impossible to get, since you can't be assured of winning every game, and at a certain stage (about 1750 I believe, or 1350 on Rev) you need to win 10 games just to regain the points you lose for 1 game decided by formation.

Exiled I repped you too recently to do it again, but I think you hit the nail on the head with that post. :)

[FryLock]

This leads to the current situation: everybody gets to 1400, the good players are all settling down at around 1500, maybe 1600 if they are carefully choosing their opponents and the few above simply stay there because they just fight against themselves ...


I can assure you that unless I have suddenly become schizophrenic, I do not play myself. I've managed 1800 through luck and skill, not by cheating. It took forever and a day to get there, and you are right, I doubt if I could get back there. But some of us who ARE there, crx, myself, rantzu (before he "retired") and a few others, allstar, spliff, and monkus from GL, for example, are legitimate players.

I will admit that now that I've passed rantzu, my recent gold games have been on rev. I climbed my Everest, and I'm happy to sit on it for a bit. I'm sure I'll eventually pick back up on banff, perhaps drop a few stats, but I'll get them back.

By the way - if the name EatMine is the same name you use in game, we had a battle about a week ago (I was using a "secret" grey account) and you were incredibly cocky and rude. It was nice to beat you. :D

[_Thunder_]

I hate cheaters.

[Warcow]

I can assure you that unless I have suddenly become schizophrenic, I do not play myself. I've managed 1800 through luck and skill, not by cheating. It took forever and a day to get there, and you are right, I doubt if I could get back there. But some of us who ARE there, crx, myself, rantzu (before he "retired") and a few others, allstar, spliff, and monkus from GL, for example, are legitimate players.

I will admit that now that I've passed rantzu, my recent gold games have been on rev. I climbed my Everest, and I'm happy to sit on it for a bit. I'm sure I'll eventually pick back up on banff, perhaps drop a few stats, but I'll get them back.

By the way - if the name EatMine is the same name you use in game, we had a battle about a week ago (I was using a "secret" grey account) and you were incredibly cocky and rude. It was nice to beat you. :D


Thats a nice siggy you got yourself there Fry :p

[Moose]

My time to thrill at the game has passed on, I find the game more enjoyable when things are just simple, and when i'm not under any obligation to try my hardest to win, that to me defeats the game, but maybe thats just my view on a game i've played since day 1 :(.

[sub the hendrix]

I'll make this quick because most everything has already been said.

Anti-rushes do keep clerics alive, especially if you get the better side of the rush. Wisp can help, and frosty really helps.

That said, anti-rushes are basically cornered rush units. If you turtle, you will be outgunned. If you rush yourself, you can't play defensive if that is your prefered style.

So while anti's give ex-turtlers a chance, they are really a bandaid on a flesh wound.

[drakonfire]

Sorry Drak, your example actually applies more to turtles than rushes. The actual time elapsed in the situation isn't important, the strategies are. How many times were the men in those novels plunked down hoping they were in the right spot to exploit a weakness? There was always planning in their strategy, and it was never a full frontal war. They always have to penetrate a relatively well established defensive position with superior tactics and brilliant maneuvering. Never do they take out their enemy by simply having bigger guns and killing faster.

hm, i think my examply can be taken both ways, my point was meant to be that all the planning they made, the teams always always relied on speed, manuevering and penetration to take their opponents down (as well as an itchy trigger finger) which to me is what a rush is, you (as the defender) are never supposed to be quite sure where the attack will come from (unless you've left your cleric open to a witch burn, then its dead obvious) and there should always be at least 2 effective paths of attack, the attacker should always be aware of whats gonna happen next with him, whether its plan A, B, or D... where as a turtle, there are only a select group moves you could possibly make at any given point in time, until your opponent makes a stupid move or you get lucky, in my mind its like this

rush (ideally) = planned chaos (no, NOT an oxymoron)

turtle = colonial warfare, line 'em up and knock 'em down

but thats just my 2 cents, myself i'm a middle man, i can pull into a turtle in about 3 moves if i must, but i can also rush you if you let me

[Warcow]

hm, i think my examply can be taken both ways, my point was meant to be that all the planning they made, the teams always always relied on speed, manuevering and penetration to take their opponents down (as well as an itchy trigger finger) which to me is what a rush is, you (as the defender) are never supposed to be quite sure where the attack will come from (unless you've left your cleric open to a witch burn, then its dead obvious) and there should always be at least 2 effective paths of attack, the attacker should always be aware of whats gonna happen next with him, whether its plan A, B, or D... where as a turtle, there are only a select group moves you could possibly make at any given point in time, until your opponent makes a stupid move or you get lucky, in my mind its like this

rush (ideally) = planned chaos (no, NOT an oxymoron)

turtle = colonial warfare, line 'em up and knock 'em down

but thats just my 2 cents, myself i'm a middle man, i can pull into a turtle in about 3 moves if i must, but i can also rush you if you let me

You'd classify the turtle as colonial warfare? Oh gods man you've got it backwards. Rush is the perfect example of colonial warfare, you are in essence lined up accross from eachother, and just trying to blow the other to pieces before he does you. That is colonial warfare exactly. The Turtle is way more like ancient warfare, tactical strikes, pressing hard into an opening, protecting your weaker regiments etc etc.

[Punishment Co.]

My time to thrill at the game has passed on, I find the game more enjoyable when things are just simple, and when i'm not under any obligation to try my hardest to win, that to me defeats the game, but maybe thats just my view on a game i've played since day 1 :(.

I *think* I know what you mean. It's like you've reached what you were shooting for in the beginning, and that you find no need in playing your best seeing as you have accomplished *it*. Now on the other hand I could just be highly intoxicated from Wayf's banner...

[Megabyte]

You'd classify the turtle as colonial warfare? Oh gods man you've got it backwards. Rush is the perfect example of colonial warfare, you are in essence lined up accross from eachother, and just trying to blow the other to pieces before he does you. That is colonial warfare exactly. The Turtle is way more like ancient warfare, tactical strikes, pressing hard into an opening, protecting your weaker regiments etc etc.


soo...what i need is a setup which is like modern warfare...I press and button and nuke all my opponents away...*goes to talk to sergiy about being given 3 more dragons and 3 more DSM's*

[Realist]

Turtle battles are like WWI warfare. Players just stay in their protective stone golem/furgon trenches and shell at each other for hours on end while nothing much ever actually happens.

[The Exile]

Turtle battles are like WWI warfare. Players just stay in their protective stone golem/furgon trenches and shell at each other for hours on end while nothing much ever actually happens.
Spoken like a person who doesn't know how to turtle properly. Well done.

Fancy a turtle game, so I can point out where you are wrong?

[actgfin1234]

hahaha, realist doesn't know how to turtle! hahaha

[S_K_O_F]

And I've also become fairly decent at turtle. While I may not be at the Bottle, SKOF or Wack-Head level, I've been able to take down quite a few people.


you shouldn't put my name in there next to bottle when it comes to turtling. While, my original turtle is completely different than most, and I use it pretty freaking well (if I don't say so myself :D ), I don't deserve to listed among the best. Just among the oldest.

you should replace my name with warcows.

[dirka dirka]

Turtle battles are like WWI warfare. Players just stay in their protective stone golem/furgon trenches and shell at each other for hours on end while nothing much ever actually happens.
Yea, in WWI when trench warfare was going on, nobody ever died, right? Yea, and nothing happened, bombs, gernades, ect never got into those trenches, right? Yea, must be silly to think any different.

[drakonfire]

You'd classify the turtle as colonial warfare? Oh gods man you've got it backwards. Rush is the perfect example of colonial warfare, you are in essence lined up accross from eachother, and just trying to blow the other to pieces before he does you. That is colonial warfare exactly. The Turtle is way more like ancient warfare, tactical strikes, pressing hard into an opening, protecting your weaker regiments etc etc.

lol, see cow, this is probably why i'm not very good at either and just stuck to my middle ground... i still hate turtles, maybe because i can't use them, but i see them dominating this game far to much, or rather saw them, i suppose the wisp and bomb have made them a bit more tricky to use

[Doctor Love]

It was nice to beat you. :D
Ditto.

[EatMine]

@The Exile: your comments about skill development in this game really hit the nail

@Warcow: I´d disagree too. If i remember correct, CRX was in the top10 ever since i came to GL months ago. Maybe he got from 1700 to 1800 just recently, but even if so, i am pretty sure, he did that by carefully choosing opponents (and not playing every 1300-1500 rusher) ...

@Frylock: I didnt accuse anybody of cheating. To get in the top10, a player really needs exceptional skills (plus exceptional luck nowadays). And after months of playing its totally ok to rest a while on everest. But you know too, that your rating would adjust pretty fast, if you´d start to battle mid-range players now ...
And i think you mistake me for somebody else: this is my screen name on GL, but i cant remember any grey beating me gold. And grey-vs-grey, the only player who beat me twice on GL was legit penguin (not saying that i havent lost to a few other greys, but this was mostly about blocking then - and yes, sometimes i do get rude, when opponent is still bragging about how skilled he is after the third front hit to my knights ...)
I remember us just playing once, me grey vs you gold, and of course you won this one.

@sub the hendrix: if a rusher relies on a one-sided rush, he hardly can be taken seriously. And if you show me a setup, that saves the cleric against different rush forms, i prostrate and worship you till the end of eternity ...


What this game needs at the moment is a defensive unit, that disables the threat of wisp, muddie and GA in the front row, and soon "skill" would be of value again.

[Warcow]

@Warcow: I´d disagree too. If i remember correct, CRX was in the top10 ever since i came to GL months ago. Maybe he got from 1700 to 1800 just recently, but even if so, i am pretty sure, he did that by carefully choosing opponents (and not playing every 1300-1500 rusher) ...

Well considering it was me he unseated, I'm pretty sure it hasn't been that long. He does play everyone and anyone though, and I know for a fact he doesn't turn down games. I think the only person for a while he didn't take games from was allstar?

[EatMine]

Well considering it was me he unseated, I'm pretty sure it hasn't been that long. He does play everyone and anyone though, and I know for a fact he doesn't turn down games. I think the only person for a while he didn't take games from was allstar?

Well, ok then, actually i have no clue when and how he got to the top and probably he is the best rusher in TAO and deserves to be first.
I am just telling you from my point of view: i´ve been in the top50 with several grey accounts on all 4 free servers. And in i dont know how many thousands of games, i played maybe 15 games vs top10 guys. Since 3 weeks i am gold and had one game vs a top10 (he had to because it was for a war), so to me it looks like these people avoid the mid-range, but then again, i can be wrong ...

And except for that xxx guy on legends (who got to 1945), i never felt like i was completey owned (considering that i was grey), the one game as a gold, i even won and i sure am not one of the best players around ...

[Spit_101]

There are far more 1500+ golds who are afraid to rush other players.And the same thing goes backwards. Thanks for pointing that out.

[Noda]

i like frylock, and i know big x deserved his stats along with ranz and bot.

Ive been hearing for months that the top 10 on GL doesnt go against kids, but frankly, there the only ones that are willing to play me. Its near impossible to get a game with the 1500 people(hehe theres like 10 that are on the dot) but link philly (ive heard spliff playin games) and xdragonx have all been willing to not just play me once but many times.

If u want a challenge, just come to banff and play almost anyone in the top 50. Nasty kids, I mean i was even ranked like 50 until a month ago.

Also, netjak destroyed the ability to be awsome way before the GA came out, becouse they figured out that putting all ur units on the front row rocks and turtle, and it became a colonial warfare game. (of course if u crunch numbers and damage charts u can get ahaid in a perfectly equal rush game, but its hard, and takes too much math for me). Darque was the first person i remember ending the WWI system of turtling, i remember when ud do that, and someone would flawless(then aggain i also remember when peeps didnt know how to rush and would get flawlessed by furgy's) i hate bombs, but i beat they could put a dent in a bad rush. symetrical rushes are awsome, but get flanked(and these are the only setups that have an up on an anti.

If u want to use skill and be skill, use an anti. I find it equalizes the playing feild against anything, u just got to be creative and not play like its WW1, gotta do gorrila style with anti's. and anti on anti is the best...cause its grey

-Legit Penguin

[Demonic_Rabbit]

I have read and saw in army the number of spammers etc... and i have also heard of the skills of many of you and i would like to know if any of the great ones could teach me a thing or two. If so please pm me

[sub the hendrix]

If u want to use skill and be skill, use an anti. I find it equalizes the playing feild against anything, u just got to be creative and not play like its WW1, gotta do gorrila style with anti's. and anti on anti is the best...cause its grey

-Legit Penguin
I think that people often compare anti on anti to grey games because the forms look simialar. This is ludicrous however, and I'll tell you why.

In a grey turt on turt game, say where each player is using no drops, and has a chanty, witch, bw, assassin setup. If it's opposite corners, they will move slowly, trying to flank the other person first, without overextending.

OK, Match Strike, you say, that sounds awfully simialar to opp. corner anti's so far. The difference lies in the ability to make your units last. The average anti will have at least four long range/teleporting units, 5 if they are not using frosty. In the grey opp. corners game, both people make heavy use of their barrier ward, probably on their only two ranged units, witch and scout.

This is key right here. Scout is equally important to both greys as long as the other grey has enchantress. Both players may initially try to take out the others scout, perhaps sending a witch up, barrier it. etc.

You all know how this goes, from experience.

Now, in an anti v. anti game, the theory of flanking is also there, but ranged units have reduced value, because there are twice as many of them. This means nobody in their right mind would think twice about sacrificing a scout or mud golem for cleric. Also, frost poses less of a threat than enchantress because it only paralyzes one unit at a time, and it is rare to find an anti with a furgon, even rarer to find one with a barrier ward.

It's the devaluation of range units that turned the game towards rushing. Once defensive units like frost and furgon lose some of their value, and it is easy to pack a form with ranged units, even the defensive forms turn into cornered offensive units.

[russian]

dam sub , you is wise. good work.

[h()()t]

Stats don't mean shit. I just love when I get on banff with a 750 gray and jump golds that are 1400+ and at the end they are begging me to surender so they don't lose points. That is the reson that I stoped playing the game... Everyone is worried about points instead of becoming a player that can play the game.

[Swartzstrom]

I didn't know you played the game, h()()t. Do you play on Banff or Armageddon?

[h()()t]

lol i have had a gold account since the game started, but i canceled it for the resons above. I am on banff, somtimes i pop in on a gray or pop in with my gold that i get forever on revelations.

[Sergeant Rat]

"Skill and confidence are an unconquered army."

-George Herbert

What more can I say? It explains itself

[FryLock]

Ditto.

Sadly, you never did beat me. You lost in our grey battle, and I know that's eating you up inside! :cool: Nice banner, too. If someone like you dislikes me enough to misspell a banner about me, I must be doing something right!

And to EatMine - perhaps it was somebody else with your name on banff. However, the game I'm referring to, I wasn't "FryLock" in, I have a non-clan grey or two that I play with for fun. The name I played against was EatMine and it had 1300+ stats on banff. All the same, you are right, I hope to give you the benefit of the doubt. If it was someone stealing your name, sorry for the confusion. If it WAS you, then perhaps you were just having a bad day and didn't much like losing. It happens to everyone. Cheers.

[banditto]

I think that I have become a better player in 2 years so, some peole get better, but some get worse. The want for these fancy gold accounts and cool looking units is what causes people to cheat or jump n00bs in order to gain stats to show that they are worthy of receiving it, and dont even realize its harder to be a good gold than a decent grey. Or somethinglike that including those words.

[Swartzstrom]

i´ve been in the top50 with several grey accounts on all 4 free servers.

You're lying. There aren't 4 servers. Don't say Legends, it's just what the name states...a legend. There is no Legends.

[Dove]

You're lying. There aren't 4 servers. Don't say Legends, it's just what the name states...a legend. There is no Legends.

If there is no Legends, why are people always arguing so adamantly about it?

Seems like a topic with inexistent subject matter wouldn't be such a hot topic :rolleyes: .

Though I do have to say that keeping Legends a "secret" did keep me away from there for quite some time.

[S_K_O_F]

If there is no Legends, why are people always arguing so adamantly about it?

Seems like a topic with inexistent subject matter wouldn't be such a hot topic :rolleyes: .

Though I do have to say that keeping Legends a "secret" did keep me away from there for quite some time.

Legends is like religion. You either believe it is there in full faith, or you don't.

Since there has never been sufficient evidence of the existence of this myth server, the only conclusion is that is does not exist!

[Swartzstrom]

Legends is like religion. You either believe it is there in full faith, or you don't.

Since there has never been sufficient evidence of the existence of this myth server, the only conclusion is that is does not exist!

Amen.