Is this a turt?

[KBHoleN1]

Is this a turt? Is it an aggressive turt? Played against a guy, I asked for a turtle game, didn't really put any restrictions besides a turt, so I guess it was ok, but I just don't see how this can be a turt, with 4 ranged units in reach of my back row.

http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/4012/aggressiveturt1du.png

Wouldn't have mattered if we opposite sided, but of course we were same side. I had to rush him and destone, so I lost my mud, and neither stone lasted very long in the game. I thought I played well, but a few scout blocks (every time to save his life) probably got him the win, it would have been at least a draw without his other scout alive.

No names here, happens too much already, all the namecalling and such. It was a very good game, no hard feelings, you know who you are. You played excellently with that frostie, but I wish you would let me opposite side against this sometime, or move that stone back, so it doesn't turn into a big rush. GG.

P.S. - I was one move away on 3 diff. occasions from killing his frost, but he shrubbed and protected it every time, losing my mud really cost me.

[Sir Vivian]

In my eyes, Yes.

[Moose]

Yes, it's one of those new same side rush/turtle type forms, designed to make the normal turtles life even more angry for him to play.

[Sir Vivian]

It's not new style... I used to use turtles like that way back and remember facing turtles very much like that.

It's a defensive formation in a corner with defensive units. Therefore...

[Moose]

It's not new style... I used to use turtles like that way back and remember facing turtles very much like that.

It's a defensive formation in a corner with defensive units. Therefore...


It's new how people use it, but it is in no way defensive, the furgon's job is to just protect the stone, the rush units eaisly get into the oppositions area eaisly.

[razor2007]

Nope, not a turtle. It uses its forward position to gain a clear offensive advantage. Even though it a corner form it is most certainly not defensive. Sorry, its a proto-rush. You can not call it a turtle if the form moves tiself forward to gain attacking advantage.

[Dove]

I think it qualifies as a turtle. As a matter of fact, I used a form very similar... I labelled it an attack turtle or a hybrid turtle whenever questioned about it. Very original it was... but as usual it got rocked by a same side Amby/Mud/Wisp combo.

If anyone asked for a turtle game I'd warn them about the form, I forget who exactly they were, but a number of people told me they agreed that it was a turtle by definition, and it was even more aggressive than that form.

[Hoolwath]

By monkus´ rules, it is not. That stoney should be in the corner if it wanted to be a turt.

[roody poo]

I don't see why this isn't a turtle. Hell, I use something similar but without the furgon, figure that would really piss some people off according to responses in this thread already. I mean, what makes a turtle? It's defensive, has a stone, I don't see why this doesn't fit the form. Noone says you have to rush right down the field with this thing as soon as your armor. You can sit back and wait for them to come to you as well.

[KBHoleN1]

I agree it could be a turt, but not by Monkus' rules, like Hoolwath said. I thought the point of a turtle was not having an advantage in setup, so why would you move units forward to be in a better rushing position? I guess if you want to turtle, you will turtle fairly, and if you don't, you can find ways around the accepted rules. If we would have been opposite side, it wouldn't matter either way ...

[Chaosti]

as stated before this is a hybrid, a combination of turtle and rush. the point of this type of formation is flexibility between offense and defense, which is useful for freestyle and open challenges when your opponent's formation and strategy are unknown. however, these types of formations are probably not very fair to use in turtle games because turtle games are intended to be pure defensive forms with the players seeing who can transition to offensive better. Hybrids allow for an extra advantage in turtle games due to their flexibility even in opposite sides because they can more quickly move to control greater areas of the board than normal turtles can.

[The Exile]

Does the formation prefer getting opposite side? No.

So it's not a turtle. In my view.

[Moose]

It's 50% a turtle, 25% a freestyle and 25% a rush.


Monkus guide is flawed anyways :p.

[da1n]

That's 100% turt, what are you talking about! :wacko:

[Cuathon]

switch the muddy with a dragon and you get waht people pull on me all the time.

[Rogue_Wolf]

Its a quick-offense turtle. The Stonie is one space from the back row, and there are no ranged units on the front 2 rows. I used to use a turtle like it in the Rev Tourney.

-Rogue_Wolf

[KBHoleN1]

switch the muddy with a dragon and you get waht people pull on me all the time.

Yeh, I would have been pissed if I had faced that (which I have many times before), but it seemed like he meant to ahve a turtle, at least partly, and I had the chance to win, so I feel like I played well enough to beat it, his scout just blocked twice, so w/e. Still a good game.

[stiffy]

um.. i have a question this game was long ago.. a turtle match that i tought it wast a real turtle but he said it was a turtle... anyway i lost to this turtle set cause his units got to my rock quickly and killed my frosty... he rushed me quickly even its opposite sides... so i would like to ask if this is a turtle? O.o
http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/9666/turtle2yq.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)

[Office_Shredder]

that's really stretching it

[stiffy]

Yes yes, i know...

[Match Strike]

I would say that according to all but the loosest defenitions, that's not a turtle.

[nads]

no wisp, no GA, formation centered on one side around a stone golem. All the criteria is there for me to call it a turtle, I think you just got unlucky you same sided because he would have been vulnerable to a cross field pinging match.

[da1n]

so i would like to ask if this is a turtle? O.o
http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/9666/turtle2yq.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)
It's a turtle all right :cool:

[KBHoleN1]

It's a turtle all right :cool:

No, the form stiffy posted is nowhere near a turtle. It ahs a stone golem, and that's about it. It has ranged units up front, stoned range units at that, and it definitely doesn't prefer opposite side. Turtles should not be able to rush, and that form can rush better than most rushes ...

[stiffy]

Ugh i knew it...

[imagination]

i had a game vrs. pink panther a long time ago b4 this wisp ga nonsense. same side... he had a dsm and 2 pyros on the front line dragon 2 scouts cleric mud stone in back. ya i was pissed.

[Moose]

that defently a sameside rush form.

[roody poo]

how about this.... is this a turtle?

turtle.... yes or no? (http://www.costumemaker.com/mrSquirtle/SquirtH3.gif)

[CRX687]

how about this.... is this a turtle?

turtle.... yes or no? (http://www.costumemaker.com/mrSquirtle/SquirtH3.gif)

that thing can definitely rush... so no :p

[Match Strike]

how about this.... is this a turtle?

turtle.... yes or no? (http://www.costumemaker.com/mrSquirtle/SquirtH3.gif)
I'm callin you out on that! It's a bomb.

I'll vs. you with my uber turtle, most definately not a bomb. (http://www.patrickkellogg.com/travel/images/Fat%20Man%20Bomb%20At%20Atomic%20Museum.jpg)

[roody poo]

I'm callin you out on that! It's a bomb.

I'll vs. you with my uber turtle, most definately not a bomb. (http://www.patrickkellogg.com/travel/images/Fat%20Man%20Bomb%20At%20Atomic%20Museum.jpg)

This turtle is not your ordinary turtle, this one is strapped. Check out the guns baby.

This turtle has the guns. (http://www.costumemaker.com/mrSquirtle/SquirtH4.gif)

[da1n]

No, the form stiffy posted is nowhere near a turtle. It ahs a stone golem, and that's about it. It has ranged units up front, stoned range units at that, and it definitely doesn't prefer opposite side. Turtles should not be able to rush, and that form can rush better than most rushes ...
5-unit stone cluster anywhere on board = turtle :wacko:
This turtle is not your ordinary turtle, this one is strapped. Check out the guns baby.
This turtle has the guns. (http://www.costumemaker.com/mrSquirtle/SquirtH4.gif)
:eek:

[KBHoleN1]

5-unit stone cluster anywhere on board = turtle :wacko:

:eek:

Do you pay attention at all? Front row stone clusters are not turtles, because you're trying to gain a setup advantage. Turtles eliminate setup advantage, and moving a stone cluster forward only turns the game into a rush. Why is it that every thread about turtles someone has to be a retard and say the same dumbass things over and over again, despite the fact thay have no idea what they're talking about?

I tried to ignore your first post in this thread, but you decided to repeat it again. Think about what you're syaing before you run your mouth. Bring on the neg reps, see if I care, I'm just tired of rushers trying to define a turtle.

[The Exile]

I'm callin you out on that! It's a bomb.

I'll vs. you with my uber turtle, most definately not a bomb. (http://www.patrickkellogg.com/travel/images/Fat%20Man%20Bomb%20At%20Atomic%20Museum.jpg)
That's a turtle. I mean, you'd want opposite sides so you could use it properly, no? :wink2:

You can speculate about turtle definitions all day. But notice that the only one that works in practise is mine: turtles prefer opposite sides. Most of the formations posted here prefer same side, so are not turtles.

[roody poo]

Most of the formations posted here prefer same side, so are not turtles.


If by same sides you mean same "teams" then yeah mine is definitely in that category.

[da1n]

Do you pay attention at all?
To you? It cracks me up when you say:
I just don't see how this can be a turt, with 4 ranged units in reach of my back row.
http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/4012/aggressiveturt1du.png
And meanwhile this is the cluster position of half the turtlers out there, your "rush" shifted just 1 tile to the right: http://img56.imageshack.us/img56/8202/somerush6ay.jpg
I tried to ignore your first post in this thread, but you decided to repeat it again. Think about what you're syaing before you run your mouth.
So quoting my first post and trying to prove it wrong is ignoring? I don't really need to comment on your next sentence. :cool:

[bobdagangsta]

[QUOTE=KBHoleN1]Do you pay attention at all? Front row stone clusters are not turtles, because you're trying to gain a setup advantage. Turtles eliminate setup advantage, and moving a stone cluster forward only turns the game into a rush. Why is it that every thread about turtles someone has to be a retard and say the same dumbass things over and over again, despite the fact thay have no idea what they're talking about?

Well, turtle can be like that, it doesn't really have to be in a turtle.

[bobdagangsta]

Well, turtle can doesnt have to be in an exact cluster it can have a long length, its still is a turtle.

[Wayfaerer]

Is this a turt? Is it an aggressive turt? Played against a guy, I asked for a turtle game, didn't really put any restrictions besides a turt, so I guess it was ok, but I just don't see how this can be a turt, with 4 ranged units in reach of my back row.

http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/4012/aggressiveturt1du.png

Wouldn't have mattered if we opposite sided, but of course we were same side. I had to rush him and destone, so I lost my mud, and neither stone lasted very long in the game. I thought I played well, but a few scout blocks (every time to save his life) probably got him the win, it would have been at least a draw without his other scout alive.

No names here, happens too much already, all the namecalling and such. It was a very good game, no hard feelings, you know who you are. You played excellently with that frostie, but I wish you would let me opposite side against this sometime, or move that stone back, so it doesn't turn into a big rush. GG.

P.S. - I was one move away on 3 diff. occasions from killing his frost, but he shrubbed and protected it every time, losing my mud really cost me.
Complaining about his rush then falling back on an excuse that his furgon defense cut off your life supply, that's all scrubbed up.

You would've been served on either side of the board. :cool:

[KBHoleN1]

Complaining about his rush then falling back on an excuse that his furgon defense cut off your life supply, that's all scrubbed up.

You would've been served on either side of the board. :cool:
I would have won the game if his scout hadn't blocked twice, so I wouldn't say I got "served". And I wasn't complaining about his furgy, that was a compliment to him. What I did mention was that because I lost my stone so early in the game, my non-armored units were doomed and he targeted the easiest one, the mud, which meant his shrubs were more powerful. Opposite side I would have owned him, same side I barely lost due to a couple of blocks. :p

[bobdagangsta]

Well KBHolen1 is a good turtler.

[Noda]

well, wish i had seen this post before.

http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/9666/turtle2yq.jpg

this was me he was talking about, and yes i did beat him by alot, but theres 3 things he leaft out or said wrong

first off, the dragon and muddy were switched...i would never put muddy front row and i love dragon front

second off - im always white...never blue, not sure if that matters, but deffinetly makes it seem less intimitading :)

and third - we were opposite...NOOB i mean cmon dude, i can understand u bitching if id pwned u wit hthis setup same side, cause its a beast, but i was opposite, my cleric and stony are open like whoa.

also, let me explain the rules that were in play for this turtle game.

no ga, no dsm, no wisp, cluster

i followed all of this criteria...just cause i made a good form doesnt mean u need to complain :)

also jsut for the record, i played gladiator after u stiff, he was using the identical setup as u, we were opposite, yet he didnt try to defend against 8 fast moving units and beat my(although it was very clsoe)

i mean its not even in the centre like i orriginaly wanted it to be

*edit* i dont want to bash my main man KB(we cna just take this to 4thfact if u want) but that turtle u said isnt a turtle is tottaly one, i mean, wat dan said(although the setup he used as the one to the side isnt wat anyone would use...move frosty above cleric and furgon blocking los to stone from side or frost from above. but yeh dude, saying turtle gets rid of advantage in form is liek saying furgon doesnt add an advatange to someones defence game

[monkus]

Eh, normal turtle rules allow all of those things (including the missle and the strange guy wearing the blue suit), which is why I tried to improve them. The idea that a turtle is a form that "prefers opposite side" is completely unreliable, because who can say whether a turtle prefers opposite side or not? If me and my opponent are both using the standard turtle (back row stone cluster w/ muddy, scoutx2 and dragon, with furgon frosty and knight), and he likes opposite side games more, and I like same side games, is my form not a turtle?
I like my rules. Neither one of those forms could qualify in my game because the stone cluster is off the wall. Did I make that rule because they aren't really turtles? No, but I made the rule because those forms wreck the turtle game. Who honestly wants to play against one of those forms same side? It's just like trying to fight a rush.

[razor2007]

Right on Monkus I've always been a big fon of your rules. I mean cmon, look at the name of the form...turtle. The name itself as I'm sure Moose will tell you clearly points to a defensive nature. To say that a form with a stone in the 2nd or 3rd row is to categorically deny not only the purpose but the name of the form itself.

As well, we need to quit this "hybrid" bullshit. A rush with a stone in it is still a rush....not a rush-turtle hybrid, so why is a stone cluster form in the 2nd or 3rd row that is clearly offensive in nature a turtle-rush hybrid. We have a big 3 (or 4 depending on how you classify it). We have Turtles, spreads, and bombs. Turtles are defensive, spreads offensive, and bombs are just stupid...i mean they use DSM and pyros. Some would consider anti's a different form.

I would also like to make the point that my anti could be considered a no stone turtle based on many of the stoney forms that ahve passed through here.

[CRX687]

As well, we need to quit this "hybrid" bullshit. A rush with a stone in it is still a rush....not a rush-turtle hybrid, so why is a stone cluster form in the 2nd or 3rd row that is clearly offensive in nature a turtle-rush hybrid.

and a turtle with a busher, or a turtle that's quite agressive is still a turtle. ;)

[Merdoc.]

Yar, that looks like a turtle to me

[2xfire]

its a turtle..... thats all to be said

[The Exile]

and a turtle with a busher, or a turtle that's quite agressive is still a turtle. ;)
I do wish people who never play turtle themselves would stop trying to define what a turtle is.

[Hatchet Warrior]

seriously! I do both, so I am allowed too :D

[razor2007]

and a turtle with a busher, or a turtle that's quite agressive is still a turtle. ;)

No, no it isn't. Fighting those is just like fighting a rush when you turtle. If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck......

[Vie]

not a joke being serious
Y do u think they call it a turtle? because its clustered to gether and is USUALLY defensive a BOX TURTLE hides in its shell an ALLIGATOR SNAPPING TURTLE will bite ur fricking hand of in a second

BOTH R TURTLE plain and simple I think this is definatelly a turtle


P.S. Croc Hunter Rox