Dishonest Draw

[wolf-boy]

I know everyone does it, but it is usually the low end players like the 1200's and below. You wouldn't expect it to come from the player leading the ranks.
I was in game with Dragoen Link, it was a decent game, but in the end it came down to my 3 knights dt frost and mud vs his cleric and 2 knight..well without the experience a 30 turn draw happened that DL has planned because he was running from me, and i was thinking that if ever 3rd turn i swung and hit air, all would be good. Low and behold a draw happens, i had him out numbered. I just want to know why you did it, you use to be cool, have honor and pride. I guess the deal with you being number one or something has changed the way you play, sounds to me like a statwhore, you didn't use to do that, and we used to be cool...a win was a win..a loss a loss but your opponents win should not be your forced draw...


Let me know what you guys think of this situation..i've got a screeny but the color is messed up, lemme know if you wanna see it?

http://img88.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cheapdl2pr.png

[Dajae]

Wolf, can we get a screenie on this please? Color or no color.

But, in a way it was.... unhonorable, but, if I was in his position I'd probably do everything in my power to win.. And I guess thats just what he did.

Don't let your views on him change, though, you're both excellent players, one match shouldn't ruin a relationship as such.

- Daj

[Jeffery]

The draws are there for a reason. Go whine in a chess site about someone drawing you. If you can't beat him following the rules, and he can draw you following them, then you deserve the draw, not a win.

[wolf-boy]

The draws are there for a reason. Go whine in a chess site about someone drawing you. If you can't beat him following the rules, and he can draw you following them, then you deserve the draw, not a win.

well, if i would have had about 2 more turns, i would have had him...dajae, ill have to get that screeny for you tomorrow
but i definately had the win we were both in the bottom corner, just opposite side, i was bout to freeze and start hacking..anyway a draw is a draw

ps jeffery, you remind me of frylock more every day, he is never nice to me, but he is occasionally

[Thash500]

This is just an example of Dragoen Link's desire to not lose stats and high rank. Everyone know that DL would have lost that match and he just want to stay number 1 considering that fact that he will lose like 20-30 stats to wolf-boy if he lost and bring him to like 1790. I think this is just one of bad behaviors of AK members. Dragoen Link is a statwhore and a coward who wont admit defeat and had to cheat his way to a draw. :cool: AK suck

[Dragoen Link]

Uhhh,i hate to disagree,but anyone can come on GL and I will play them,unless they are 1230- stats.I mean you have to be some what a stat whore when ur at my rank,or else you wont make it.BTW,if a draw is possible,then its fare and its wolf-boy's fault for not knowing that 30 turn rule.I dont see the dishonorability(if thats a word :p) of protecting my stats somewhat.

[Match Strike]

It's not against the rules for a person to bomb in a prearanged turtle match either. I have to see a s/s, but it's a matter of ettiquete.

DL, I still ike you and all, but you care too much about stats. What's the deal with always wanting to be number one? Now that you are what have you acheived? It's just a number man.

To spend 30 turns forcing a draw shows that you probably care too much. Most player would have simply surrendered when they are that outnumbered.

[Punishment Co.]

"Quality, not quanity."

There is a reason why these number one's right now have no ring to their name when you read it. It's not how much you play; it's how you play. There is a difference between these current mofos sitting at the # 1 spot and guys like Big X or 12 who never really bothered about their stats (no offense).

While it's true that technically it was a draw, DL should have given him the win because he was beat already. However he has made it apparent that stats matter more to him so there is no need to drill the nail further.

[Chaosti]

No offense wolf-boy, but DL is not really at fault here at all. There is really nothing wrong with going for a draw when you know you can't win. It's exactly like chess: if you can't win, then you should try to go for a stalemate. Using a bomb in a turtle game is a totally different situation since there was an agreement between both players. I don't think anyone's ever thought to agree not to draw.

[nads]

If it takes 30 turns for you to launch an offensive when you outnumber your opponent then you deserved to lose and not draw.

[Dragoen Link]

Well,lets put it this way,i did what i could to survive.You could of attacked me anytime,but u didnt,its your fault for not taking to oppertunity.

[solingro]

I agree with nads. If you had so much advantage, should've gone in and gotten at least a hit.

[Shaman]

You had a MUD and you could have damaged him anytime and thwarted the draw. He knew the rules, and you seem not to have. Sounds like he was just more experienced and saved his points.

[wolf-boy]

You had a MUD and you could have damaged him anytime and thwarted the draw. He knew the rules, and you seem not to have. Sounds like he was just more experienced and saved his points.

yea, you're right, i didn't know the 30 turn draw existed actually, when i play it i usuallly a win or loss, i never try to force draws..anyway, ill out the screeny up in a min, and im telling you, this laptop takes weird screenies, it looks like it is a negative

[CRX687]

I know everyone does it, but it is usually the low end players like the 1200's and below. You wouldn't expect it to come from the player leading the ranks.
I was in game with Dragoen Link, it was a decent game, but in the end it came down to my 3 knights dt frost and mud vs his cleric and 2 knight..well without the experience a 30 turn draw happened that DL has planned because he was running from me, and i was thinking that if ever 3rd turn i swung and hit air, all would be good. Low and behold a draw happens, i had him out numbered. I just want to know why you did it, you use to be cool, have honor and pride. I guess the deal with you being number one or something has changed the way you play, sounds to me like a statwhore, you didn't use to do that, and we used to be cool...a win was a win..a loss a loss but your opponents win should not be your forced draw...


Let me know what you guys think of this situation..i've got a screeny but the color is messed up, lemme know if you wanna see it?

Do you honestly see no paradox at all here? You claim you won the game... while complaining about the game being a draw? :confused:

A win's a win, a loss is a loss, and a draw is a draw...

If he could draw, then you obviously didn't win, did you? ;)

Not knowing about the 30 turn is in all ways your own problem... If I've never played a dragon before, does that make using one against me "dishonorable"? :dry:

[FryLock]

3 knights, dragon, frost AND mud, vs. 2 knights and a cleric? Unless all of your units were on the brink of death...

You could have sac'd the dragon to go and kill the cleric. Then freeze 1 knight and beat on it. Lure the other knight in, let it hit the frost, close around it, then freeze it.

If you were too inept to mount a slow but steady offensive strike backed up with a frost, then you deserved the draw. Stop whining.

[Office_Shredder]

Yeah, I can't honestly figure out HOW it took you thirty turns to start attacking.... I mean, it should only take you fifteen, twenty at most to get your units in position...


And to those who say that most players would surrender, I think that's pretty much untrue... there are a lot of people (like me for instance) who don't surrender as long as they are capable of attacking... in this case, DL was simply pulling his units back into a defensive position.... if I was in his position, that's what I would have done regardless of whether I was shooting for a 30 turn draw or not

[Dragoen Link]

My cleric was in the corner,being protected by my two full health knights,most of his units were near death.I was sitting in that one corner for 25 turns,it took me 5 turns to go in that corner.Btw,if your whining that im protective about my stats,why are you complaining that you didnt win,unless YOU wanted more stats from me?Anyways,this is a stupid thread,so let it die.

[wolf-boy]

o well, im over it, i just got kinda pissed because those stats should have been mine, last time we played, i made some really stupid moves...i just wanted my revenge stats :P...anyway no hard feelings...but your attitude has changed for the worse..im not the only one who thinks this, i know clannies of yours who think the same..just lighten up, i was rooting for you all the way to take crx down, but now..i realize that crx should be there.....just my opinion..and for the record,, my frost was 14 my mud was 24, my dt was 4, and my 3 knights were full..so it was mine...i didn't know bout the 30 turn thing, i was slowly easing in.....o well, i know now

[CRX687]

o well, im over it, i just got kinda pissed because those stats should have been mine, last time we played, i made some really stupid moves...i just wanted my revenge stats :P...anyway no hard feelings...but your attitude has changed for the worse..im not the only one who thinks this, i know clannies of yours who think the same..just lighten up, i was rooting for you all the way to take crx down, but now..i realize that crx should be there.....just my opinion..and for the record,, my frost was 14 my mud was 24, my dt was 4, and my 3 knights were full..so it was mine...i didn't know bout the 30 turn thing, i was slowly easing in.....o well, i know now


I still don't understand what you're getting at.

You say no hard feelings, then you criticize his attitude.

You say he cares abouts stats too much, then you say "i just got pissed because those stats should have been mine".

you say you should have won, WHILE you complain about the match being a draw.

You say you didn't know about the 30 turn thing... as if it were Dl's fault.

I don't see how ANY of this makes DL dishonorable. Was he supposed to teach you the 30 turn draw? Was he supposed to throw the game when he knew it was really a draw?

I don't agree with the way DL passed me (picking on the 1300 players), but in this case, he did what anyone would've done.

[allstarGL]

wow someone that doesnt know the 30 turn rule is owning our #1 player :(

btw i agree with link I would have forced the draw too

[wolf-boy]

sorry for the unnecesary post, i was a little worked up.....drop the post :D.

Sorry DL

[Terps rock]

Wolf cry me a river If you are dumb enought to let me heal his knights up, for 30 turns you my friend should quit, sit in a corner and rot!

As for DL, I wish you would have lost, but Good for you, Way to play the game, not whine about the game!

[Cuathon]

isnt the 30 turn draw 15 turns for each player?

also DL was fine doing that. i woulda done it in his place because it was logical. its like the dragon draw.

[Dove]

Got here kind of late... first of all your mistake was in not taking action when you severely outnumbered him. Second of all, your mistake was that you didn't understand the 3 pass draw. Each player has to PASS TURN WITHOUT MOVING 3 turns in a row to get the draw. The forced draw is 30 collective and adjacent turns with no attacks from one player to the other.

As it's been said all throughout the thread, if it was possible, it's not bad that it was used.

[Lordofzrings]

i dont think its Dishonorable at all, if you were a General on a battleFeild and your Side Was loosing would you rather
A) Surrendur(Surrender & loose)
B) Fight to the Death(loose)
C) Retreat to Fight another day(Draw)
D) offer a Draw(Draw)

he Retreated and Forced the Draw, its a stratagy, if you cant win then Draw, if you cant draw then you loose, i think the 30 turn Draw helps Induce Strategy. its your Fauly for not Using your Frosty, DT and Especially Mud golem, one Mud Quake Couldve helped the Whole Situation.

[Terps rock]

Got here kind of late... first of all your mistake was in not taking action when you severely outnumbered him. Second of all, your mistake was that you didn't understand the 3 pass draw. Each player has to PASS TURN WITHOUT MOVING 3 turns in a row to get the draw. The forced draw is 30 collective and adjacent turns with no attacks from one player to the other.

As it's been said all throughout the thread, if it was possible, it's not bad that it was used.
I think it is no damage done.

[Merdoc.]

ah the quality of the pic sucks to the max, cant see it.

[Shiny Flors]

I still don't understand what you're getting at.

You say no hard feelings, then you criticize his attitude.

You say he cares abouts stats too much, then you say "i just got pissed because those stats should have been mine".

you say you should have won, WHILE you complain about the match being a draw.

You say you didn't know about the 30 turn thing... as if it were Dl's fault.

I don't see how ANY of this makes DL dishonorable. Was he supposed to teach you the 30 turn draw? Was he supposed to throw the game when he knew it was really a draw?

I don't agree with the way DL passed me (picking on the 1300 players), but in this case, he did what anyone would've done.


But he did teach him the 30 turn draw. Just not the way he would have liked.

[CRX687]

But he did teach him the 30 turn draw. Just not the way he would have liked.

>_<

you know what I meant!

[max2k106]

What's wrong with trying to get a draw? The point of this game is to win. And if you can't win, the next best thing is draw. Him not telling you about the 30 turn draw is your fault. It's like someone not telling someone how to do a mudquake when they didn't even ask. Your whining is rediculous and you are just angry because you don't know the game. And why would you walk around for 30 turns when you had the units you had? You could've finished him off!

[bobdagangsta]

yea crx that is pretty much is what is in my siggy a draw is draw.

[bludhoundz]

Wolf, good playing, but its your fault you messed it up in the end. Hell, I think anyone would be annoyed if they had the game won and someone did this to them, but it doesn't make it dishonorable.

[wolf-boy]

blud, that was the response i was looking for, but I see what I did..like i said like a few times before, i was pissed off and a little worked up....

[da1n]

Hell, I think anyone would be annoyed if they had the game won and someone did this to them
But the forced draw isn't a result of what Dragoen did (sit tight), rather what wolf-boy didn't do (attack). :D

[bludhoundz]

I agree.

[Wayfaerer]

What's dishonourable about making you work for your bounty? Should've attacked while you had the chance :cool:

[cyber3000]

i think the 30 turn draw is not right. some players strategy is to move their pieces around until they are in a good position to attack thier opponent.sometimes that can take a while, and without realizing it they draw even if they were clearly ahead. the draw has no purpose at all other than getting cheap draws

[actgfin1234]

It's there so you can't stall endlessly. Think about it..

[monkus]

I put not sure because I don't know exactly how the game went. If it was only because of wolf-boy not knowing about the rule, then yes, it was a fair play. As crx said, if I don't know about a certain unit/rule, but the information is open to me, I shouldn't be immune to that rule.

However, if Dragoen Link did nothing but run away during the last 30 moves, making that the ultimate reason, then it's still legal, just kind of cheap. I know personally if I was winning like 2 knights to 1 knight, and my opponent simply managed to evade me for 30 turns without taking a hit (do blocked hits count as hits? I don't quite know), then I would consider it rather cheap.

It's there so you can't stall endlessly. Think about it..
Actually, it HELPS people that want to stall endlessly. People that stall are usually the ones losing, and this is possibly the best thing that could happen for a person desperately losing a battle. This rule was added for like the instance that both players have like 3 knights and are afraid to engage, but it isn't really fair when it makes the winning player draw because of, as stated, cheap/clever tactics that don't help in the game, but abuse this rule.

[Lonely Tylenol]

It looks to me like Dragoen Link never moved his Cleric from its initial position in the corner.

Additionally, his two Knights remain in a position that defends his Cleric...

So I very strongly doubt he spent the whole 30 turns running.

Especially because a Mud Golem could reach a Knight in under 10 turns, even if the Knight ran away constantly. (Put the Mud in the very centre, and it can reach any single space in the arena, with teleport range + Mud Quake.)

It's more a case of wolf-boy not attacking, than of Dragoen Link constantly retreating, because it would have been impossible for Dragoen Link to avoid being Mud Quaked OR Dragoned for 30 whole turns while moving 3 units simultaneously.

Thus, DL isn't at fault.

[CRX687]

I put not sure because I don't know exactly how the game went. If it was only because of wolf-boy not knowing about the rule, then yes, it was a fair play. As crx said, if I don't know about a certain unit/rule, but the information is open to me, I shouldn't be immune to that rule.

However, if Dragoen Link did nothing but run away during the last 30 moves, making that the ultimate reason, then it's still legal, just kind of cheap. I know personally if I was winning like 2 knights to 1 knight, and my opponent simply managed to evade me for 30 turns without taking a hit (do blocked hits count as hits? I don't quite know), then I would consider it rather cheap.


Actually, it HELPS people that want to stall endlessly. People that stall are usually the ones losing, and this is possibly the best thing that could happen for a person desperately losing a battle. This rule was added for like the instance that both players have like 3 knights and are afraid to engage, but it isn't really fair when it makes the winning player draw because of, as stated, cheap/clever tactics that don't help in the game, but abuse this rule.

Monkus, 30 turns is a LONG time. If you were winning 2 knights to 1, and you can't hit them in 30 moves, you don't deserve to play... I've played you many times, and if you don't so something stupid, there's always a way to hit after 10 turns. And yes, blocked hits count as hits... there just has to be contact.

If you obviously have the advantage, there's no reason to not hit for 30 turns...

[wolf-boy]

well. i was moving in slowly so he would have had no chance in hell, i was gonna make a unit wall, freeze, then hack the frozen unit, his cleric moved from the other side of the arena, right to left, and his knight were way up front, but i was just going wo slowly work my way in making the attack inevitable and futile to resist, o well...my bad.

[Revenge]

I think this is just one of bad behaviors of AK members.AK suck
Thash you dont really know AK members, AK members rule! I dont know what really happened with DL, considering the fact I dont even really talk to him!But just because he did that doesnt mean u can go make fun of AK. So just leave for the last time!

[Vie]

hay thanx for making this post now I know the 30 turn rule never knew of it till now thanx alot

[wolf-boy]

well at least some people benefitted from it, i wish i could have learned like you did.. :P