Give a guy a draw?

[Lonely Tylenol]

I just finished a game with the then-1422 stat x-useme, who agreed to a game with me in the lobby against my 1130-stat grey, The Internet Bovine on Armageddon. We met on floor 8 with my no-drop unit spread against his Furgon/Frosty turtle formation (obviously an anti-grey, judging by the units and positioning he had.)

We had the following exchange in-game:

[Game begins]
The Internet Bovine: Ah, turtler.
[Silence... He takes a Knight, Pyromancer and Assassin; I take his Frost Golem and Knight, and am lining up to kill his Scout with a side hit]
The Internet Bovine: Hit.
[The attack hits]
The Internet Bovine: Yay.
[More silence... I take his Mud Golem, trap his other Scout and move in on his Cleric; he takes my other Pyromancer and Dark magic witch]
x-useme: this is a noob gold huh
The Internet Bovine: ?
The Internet Bovine: What do you mean?

The Internet Bovine: Aww...
The Internet Bovine: Sorry, I think this one's mine. Good game.
x-useme: not fair dawg
The Internet Bovine: ?
x-useme: i just got a d/c before
x-useme: my stats are gonna die today
The Internet Bovine: ....
*** <*Deuces Wild*> x-useme's Rating : 1422 (Battle) ***
x-useme: can we draw this?
The Internet Bovine: A game is a game bro.
x-useme: and a dcs a dc
The Internet Bovine: And this isn't.
x-useme: man fck u
[He kills my second Knight and consequently loses his Dragon, his last attacker]
*** x-useme has SURRENDERED!![i]! ***
*** x-useme has left the arena. ***
*** Returning to lobby in thirty seconds... ***
*** Returning to lobby in ten seconds... *** <*Deuces Wild*> x-useme's Rating : 1409 (Offline) ***

End Result (http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/4485/ibeatxuseme0ft.jpg)

There is no doubt in my mind that I had won this game... We agreed to the game and both of us fought fair... In fact, it was really fun... But his last words disturb me.

My questions to all of you are:

- Should I have given him the draw or surrendered to spare his stats?
- Is it right to ask for a draw in a losing situation to spare stats?
- Who was in the wrong in this case?

If you ask me, I think it was right to force the win in this case because I had clearly won the game, and he should have known apon entering the game that there was a chance of loss and accepted that. As a grey, I beat a gold turtler; for that, I think the stats should have been rightfully mine as a token of my work towards the victory.

What's your guys' take on the matter?

[I BEAT MATHEWS]

you did the right thing by taking the win

[da1n]

- Should I have given him the draw or surrendered to spare his stats?
No, because I wouldn't.
- Is it right to ask for a draw in a losing situation to spare stats?
He can ask whatever he wants, doesn't mean you have to give it to him.
- Who was in the wrong in this case?
Nobody is wrong, he was looking for a break but didn't get it. Nice own :cool:

[roody poo]

I am all for offering a draw depending on the situation. In this situation I wouldn't have. Don't lose any sleep over it.

[EatMine]

No way!
Dont go over the top with your morals!
He deserves to lose stats, if he cares so much about them.
(Especially if he starts to insult you ...)

The only reason for donating a draw is, when you have won a VERY good game against a VERY nice opponent after having TOO much luck.

Neither of this is true in your case, so give this sore loser a bitter feeling
and congrats to the win ...

(one question though: how did you log the conversation?)

[Lonely Tylenol]

Nobody is wrong, he was looking for a break but didn't get it. Nice own

Thanks.

Guess I can understand that sentiment... I just didn't like the thought of him getting indignant over losing stats on a lost game.

The only reason for donating a draw is, when you have won a VERY good game against a VERY nice opponent after having TOO much luck.

It was actually quite a good game, but he's the one that got lucky; I don't think I got a single block all-game, at least not when it counted... His Furgon and second Scout lasted long on blocks though.

Another gold I beat yesterday though, fit that description, but surrendered before I could stop him... He played a very good game, and was quite the gentleman (when he found out I wasn't talking out of my ass)... Dropped him 15 stats. :(

So I guess the win and stats were rightfully mine? :D

So the consensus is at this moment at the least.

(one question though: how did you log the conversation?)

I typed it out manually in the last minute or two, then corrected any mistakes caused by hasty typing, changed "me" to "The Internet Bovine", and added color tags. :cool:

Fingerwork.

[Chaosti]

Guess I can understand that sentiment... I just didn't like the thought of him getting indignant over losing stats on a lost game.



if he gets indignant, thats his problem. i mean, losing stats because you lost a game is kind of the point. most likely, he was just bitter about losing to a grey when he put together what you say was an anti-grey form. Congrats on the win LT.

[Office_Shredder]

LT, the right thing to do would have been to stall so he wouldn't have time for another game to get those stats back :p

[dark cobra]

Its a good thing you kicked his butt, you shouldn't try to save someones stats when you play too.

[Battery.]

You diserved to rape his stats :)

[Daemon Bloodmaw]

The only time I will draw is like Eatmine said, or if I'm on a noob gold and I respect the guy I just beat.

But if they type like a nub? Meat.

[Megabyte]

My questions to all of you are:

- Should I have given him the draw or surrendered to spare his stats?
- Is it right to ask for a draw in a losing situation to spare stats?
- Who was in the wrong in this case?



Unless you really feel like, of course you don't draw to spare their stats. Otherwise, you'd draw every single match. You play to win, thats the prize. As a MAJOR dc issue person myself (about a third of my matches make my comp crash), I can be sympathetic, but sympathy doesn't mean I'm gonna let 'em walk off.

They can ask, but they shouldn't get bitchy about it when you turn 'em down. What can they expect? I sincerely doubt they would have drawn if they were winning.

There is no wrong. There's no issue at hand to be right/wrong. Useme lost a match, and couldn't handle the injury to his ego. Thats it.

[Shadow Ninja]

i think u were correct by not accepting the draw.if it was a closer battle maybe. but just to spare someones stats. u shouldnt draw 4 that

[Netjaker]

This is one of the reasons LonelyTylenol is so cool, i mean with hes language and puntuation corrections he will make a great mod. and allso he knows from right to wrong, and never flames(except when realy needed) noob guys who are just being stupid. and he allways knows what to do, and what to say in any situation.

VOTE LONELYTYLENOL FOR MOD, BECAUSE A GOOD MOD LIKE HIM, MEANS A WONDERFULL AND RESPECTFULL FUTURE FOR TACTICS ARENA ONLINE.

[axident]

x-useme is pathetic and when I beat his gold with a dropless gray he said some crap about luck, which was actually more on HIS side than mine. He gray jumps, trash talks, and when one night I was messing around with mage bombs for fun (the wipe was coming the next day), he jumped me with a gray to see my form before rejumping me with his gold. I've lost a TON of stats to d/c and never cheat or ask for a draw to get them back. He got his comeuppance, and he'll probably gray jump some more to get his undeserved stats back up.

I just finished a game with the then-1422 stat x-useme, who agreed to a game with me in the lobby against my 1130-stat grey, The Internet Bovine on Armageddon. We met on floor 8 with my no-drop unit spread against his Furgon/Frosty turtle formation (obviously an anti-grey, judging by the units and positioning he had.)

We had the following exchange in-game:

[Game begins]
The Internet Bovine: Ah, turtler.
[Silence... He takes a Knight, Pyromancer and Assassin; I take his Frost Golem and Knight, and am lining up to kill his Scout with a side hit]
The Internet Bovine: Hit.
[The attack hits]
The Internet Bovine: Yay.
[More silence... I take his Mud Golem, trap his other Scout and move in on his Cleric; he takes my other Pyromancer and Dark magic witch]
x-useme: this is a noob gold huh
The Internet Bovine: ?
The Internet Bovine: What do you mean?

The Internet Bovine: Aww...
The Internet Bovine: Sorry, I think this one's mine. Good game.
x-useme: not fair dawg
The Internet Bovine: ?
x-useme: i just got a d/c before
x-useme: my stats are gonna die today
The Internet Bovine: ....
*** <*Deuces Wild*> x-useme's Rating : 1422 (Battle) ***
x-useme: can we draw this?
The Internet Bovine: A game is a game bro.
x-useme: and a dcs a dc
The Internet Bovine: And this isn't.
x-useme: man fck u
[He kills my second Knight and consequently loses his Dragon, his last attacker]
*** x-useme has SURRENDERED!![i]! ***
*** x-useme has left the arena. ***
*** Returning to lobby in thirty seconds... ***
*** Returning to lobby in ten seconds... *** <*Deuces Wild*> x-useme's Rating : 1409 (Offline) ***

End Result (http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/4485/ibeatxuseme0ft.jpg)

There is no doubt in my mind that I had won this game... We agreed to the game and both of us fought fair... In fact, it was really fun... But his last words disturb me.

My questions to all of you are:

- Should I have given him the draw or surrendered to spare his stats?
- Is it right to ask for a draw in a losing situation to spare stats?
- Who was in the wrong in this case?

If you ask me, I think it was right to force the win in this case because I had clearly won the game, and he should have known apon entering the game that there was a chance of loss and accepted that. As a grey, I beat a gold turtler; for that, I think the stats should have been rightfully mine as a token of my work towards the victory.

What's your guys' take on the matter?

[_Darkness_]

There was no reason to draw in that game, he deserved the loss, and should accpet it and get over it.

[ironhorse123]

I wouldn't have given him the draw. The only reason I would if he didn't act that way. But he was cussing at you. He didn't deserve a draw.
Reasons I give draws are:
I know the blocking was WAY WAY unfair
If I am playing grey and I play a gold and I am going to beat them, but they accept the loss and stilll act polite and everything. I might give a draw there (might).
Those are the only reasons I give a draw if they ask.

[Office_Shredder]

Honestly, if my opponent asks for a draw, I don't give it to them. It's that simple. I'm not going to let them influence whether I get the win by begging me for stat points.

[Terps rock]

I don't draw unless I am not on my main account, then which if they are nice throughout the game, I will offer one.

[ironhorse123]

I think some people ask for a draw out of frustraion sometimes. Like in a game today I was beating Chaos Shark on Rev. and I had it in the bag. I had a full knight, a busher with 21 ,and a full dragon he had a full busher, DT with 10 and a muddy full. It was my turn and his muddy had a 2 turn recovery on it and th busher couldn't hit any of my units. So I side attcked his dragon with my knight the dragon blocked. He kills my busher and I attack with my knight again on the side of dragon the dragon blocks and then his dragon kills my knight. So he would end up winning. He did offer draw, but sometimes it is frustraiting when you get hardly any blocks in the game. Yeah its the game and your ooponent can't control nor can you, but it is just sort've frustraitng. Stats aren't everything, but that is the only reason I can find to give a draw.

[Wayfaerer]

I think it's pretty obvious you shouldn't have drawn him, and that everyone would agree with you. Looks like another stab at the JW crew again, in disguise. Shame on you LT :cool:

[Sodamoeba]

I don't draw unless I am not on my main account, then which if they are nice throughout the game, I will offer one.

A fair sport shouldnt accept a draw in ANY event (with VERY rare exceptions perhaps, like odd circumstances outside of the game eg:he has to go to a doctors appointment). If they play a game, there is a chance they will lose and a chance they will get unlucky...and theres a good chance they wont get over it :mad:


ALSO: I cant stand seeing this anymore!

Well Said LT, you say the right stuff and you are a great person and have an awesome attitude!. rep for you.

Hehe, LT will Win In A Campaign against FryLock.

Lonelytylenol For Mod!!

VOTE LONELYTYLENOL FOR MOD, BECAUSE A GOOD MOD LIKE HIM, MEANS A WONDERFULL AND RESPECTFULL FUTURE FOR TACTICS ARENA ONLINE.


None of that is in the mod campaign section of the forums! For god sakes! I soooo wish i didnt get this all the time:

"you must spread some reputation around before giving it to Netjacker. Again."



Sorry LT, you would make a great mod, but still...THAT ^

[Lonely Tylenol]

I think it's pretty obvious you shouldn't have drawn him, and that everyone would agree with you. Looks like another stab at the JW crew again, in disguise. Shame on you LT

Wouldn't it be a jab at *Deuces Wild*? :huh:

And no, I figured it was a matter I was uncertain about enough to ask for another opinion...

Sorry LT, you would make a great mod, but still...THAT ^

Was none of my doing. I never requested to be a mod, nor have a campaign; nor did I give consent.

I just rock so much that people make signatures and posts in my glory. :cool:

Since we're on that subject... Netjaker, please stop... I don't have any real interest in being a mod, nor do they have any demand. So please don't talk about LonelyTylenol for mod... If you'd like, you could put "LonelyTylenol rocks" in your signature, but that one's a given. :happy:

[Snork]

Riders of Rohan(sp?) beat the crap out of me in a game, then gave me a draw upon me asking for it.
I was polite about it. Didn't beg, just asked if he'd be willing to call one.

I agree that in your game you shouldn't have called a draw.
And usually people won't be asking.
But that doesn't mean it's always wrong.

[Dragoen Link]

Good Fair win LT,good job :)

[x-useme]

What was the point of this? To try and embarrass me? This game was ages ago...back when The Internet Bovine wasnt even a gold

[Lonely Tylenol]

What was the point of this? To try and embarrass me? This game was ages ago...back when The Internet Bovine wasnt even a gold

And if you looked at the thread date, you'd see that this thread was made right after I golded, on the very same day.

I didn't make it to humiliate you... I could do that in more efficient ways. Losing to my grey was never anything to be ashamed of... As better have done so. :p I made this thread to ask where the line is drawn on draw games and the like.

[Snork]

What was the point of this? To try and embarrass me?

Yeah, you were taking too long to do it yourself.

Well, at least you didn't loose to me.
THAT would be embarrassing. :)

I heard you cheat. Who are you?

[cheeseypet]

That's sad seeing a gold cower to a grey it stings my eyes. Taking the win was probly the best thing to do so don't beat urself up for it. I dont know why a gold would really care because the stats can be brought back up and cowering=creepy from gold

[Mithrandir]

I would say you didn't have to give the draw but I wouldn't say you shouldn't have, like some have said. I've beaten many a gold with a grey account, including a few over 1400 and a few over 1500. Most of the time I have not only drawn, but surrendered and not at the request of my defeated opponent, but simply by my volunteering. I didn't play for stats so I didn't care about them but I know losing to a grey below 1000 when you're a gold at 1500, the result is very frustrating. The blow to the pride is rough enough without the stat loss. The only times I haven't surrendered after beating a high stat gold were when that gold left before I had the chance or was a complete jerk the whole time, and even then it's worth considering. Unless you really want the stats, I don't see why not do a guy a favor. Theologically speaking I don't believe in karma but philosophically speaking I do believe favors come back around in the long run. But of course, I don't disrespect any player for taking a win they deserve, this is just how I've dealt with that situation. Just my two cents.

X-useme, after what you did I think you deserved a little public humiliation to be honest. When LT posted this here he treated you precisely with the respect you deserve: none. I recommend you try to avoid saying anything in this game that would make you ashamed if the rest of the community found about it.

[Lonely Tylenol]

I don't see why not do a guy a favor.

That reminds me... I beat a gold over 1500 around that time, who was a real gentleman about it, and in fact only played me after much coaxing (he was undefeated against greys, and claimed no grey had given him a real challenge). He was graceful in defeat, nice guy in the lobby too, but I was slow to offer a draw and ended up breaking off 15 of his stats. :( Now I feel guilty.

But I wasn't trying to drag x-useme through the mud. I know I hate it when people gloat about their victories against me, and I've refrained from posting in the battle reports because it's mostly for gloating anymore... On the other hand, there's no real shame in losing a match, as long as you lose with grace. I posted this because I felt we needed a little closure on the matter, and that's what I got. Thanks, guys. :)

[x-useme]

I agree x-useme is a baby
=P

lol
oooh and btw, its the 1500 stat x-useme, not the 1422 stat x-useme :cool:

[Cliche]

Yeah, i totally agree as well :P

[monkus]

Though the topic may have finished, I still feel like my opinion should hold at least a little validity, as I have found myself in both positions, the high-stat loser and the low stat and/or gray winner. I'm a bit more forgiving in my answer:

If a person is on a low stat gold account that is not their main, and they are playing a high stat gold, then the conditions are mostly leaning towards a draw. Especially if the high stat gold was respectful, if luck played a large factor, or if the gold account being used truly doesn't represent the player's skills (And even more especially if the winner was playing anonymously on a much lower account, and isn't seeking stats but only games), then a draw is in order. If two 1750's play, but one is on a 1300 account, then consider how much the other has to lose, and how little he has to win. A draw is clearly due.

If an account is your main account, then you shouldn't be held to a draw unless the luck was truly out of order. Even so, still things like common courtesy are prerequisites from your opponent to consider a draw. Never give a draw to an asshole.

However, if you play a gold on a gray account, shoot for the win. Losing to any gray ought to have the impact of losing to a 750 gray, especially considering the wipe. Gray accounts should never be held to a draw, except in the instance of gray vs gray, during which the above rules apply (kinda).

[x-useme]

Monkus, you are a wise man