Light Golem

[ent__89]

Appearence:Basically it looks like the worlds smallest golem, about half the size of a stonie, and is stransparent white, wearing bands(wrist, ankle, and neck) of your teams colors. When moving it thins out and quickly hovers to its destination.

Attack:20
Blocking:*50
Armor:0
Movement:5
Recovery:0
HP:35

This unit attacks any and all units it passes threw during its movement(including friendly).This attack is blockable!

*This unit cannot be damaged by melee units, hence it does not count as an endgame unit(dont need to kill it to win).

This units movement/attack must follow the rules of LOS, which as a gold only unit should not(key word should) not be problematic for the user.

Because this attack is under the movement function you cannot target a space currently occupied by a unit, even if that unit dies.

Questions and comments are greatly appreciated.

[Cross Punisher]

Uhm all golems have no blocking and 60 HP. But other than that I like the idea.

I don't even have any questions to ask :)

[legacy67]

I dont understand the point of controlling the specifc squares in the path since there are no "bugged" squares.

Also I hate the idea of a unit that cant be hurt at all by melee attacks, even if it is not endgame. The fact that it can move and do damage makes it a force to be reckoned with.

This would not have a good place in the game, especially as one strategy would be to eliminate all units that could kill the Light Golem first, then have this unit g on a rampage.

Sorry, but no dice.

[ent__89]

cross, your right about the golem thing....maybe it could be in the beast category instead....i'll have to look more into that

And legacy, while i appreciate your comments i want you to see it my way....most gold setups have double scouts making it fairly easy to get rid of it, especially if they are also using a mud golem(only mud quake will effect), a wisp, or a frosty...

The reason i made this it to try to compromise with both sides of the current TAO world, i want to bring back the usage of more gold turtles while giving the option for a possibly shorter game by the units ability to burn a path through the fugons bushes, and made it relatively easy to kill to keep the balance...

[legacy67]

And legacy, while i appreciate your comments i want you to see it my way....most gold setups have double scouts making it fairly easy to get rid of it, especially if they are also using a mud golem(only mud quake will effect), a wisp, or a frosty...

The reason i made this it to try to compromise with both sides of the current TAO world, i want to bring back the usage of more gold turtles while giving the option for a possibly shorter game by the units ability to burn a path through the fugons bushes, and made it relatively easy to kill to keep the balance...

This unit does 20 damage to each unit is passes through, for a possible 100 damage each time it moves. Can it move back and forth on one turn? If so then it can kill a scout in one turn. Oh yeah, thats balanced. This is not a balanced units, a large number of the units on the board can't harm it, it has a huge range and 100 damage, and a very short wait. If there ever was an unbalanced unit, this is it.

Oh, and I think that most turtlers would be against a unit designed to stop turles, I mean, look at the GA's wonderful reception.

[Office_Shredder]

What's the point of the blocking? :confused:

[Sodamoeba]

Lol right...if it cant be attacked except by unblockable units or by melee units when it is paralyzed and cant block anyway... :D

[ent__89]

No legacy it cant move back and forth.
As for the blocking, i wasnt considering a scout a melee unit(maybe i should have said non-ranged attackers instead?)
As for how much damage it does, that depends, if it wouldnt work as i originally planned the movement and it is based on LOS then it will have a rather limited amount of targets...
oh and Legacy, i have already adressed the fact that it only attacks units it goes through, therefor it has a max attack power of 80 and then you have to take into consideration armor and blocking, because this attack is blockable(never said it wasnt, but i will add in that it is)...

[Sodamoeba]

hmm...If it can be hit by a scout it should probably be an endgame unit...actually, thats a pretty odd thing. It would be unfair for it to be an and game unit and it would be unfair for it NOT to be an endgame unit. ;)


I like the LOS part, that would make it very interesting, as you would have to master LOS to use it well, but the point of LOS is that the arrow doesnt hit every square, it goes between them. That might be a problem for the LGs attack patternn.

[legacy67]

First, if it has a range of 5, it has the chance to do 20 damage 5 times, hence a possible 100 damage. Is your arguement that it is not allowed to stop on an occupied unit if the unit could be killed by the 20 damage? You really haven't specified some details.

Fine, say you only have 3 units in range of the attack, and one blocks, you still just did 40 damage (armor not included) in one turn! The potential of doing 80 damage is just too high. This would be one of the most powerful offensive units in the game.

The fact that it is blockable can be a moot point in some situations since you can use the plotable range of 5 movement to get behind the unit and attack from the back.

This is an overpowered unit, the only units capable of doing more damage in one turn are the DMW (which nearly impossible since you need 4 units in a straight line) or the assasin bomb(which everyone knows rarely ever gets used).

Oh yeah, and there is no need to NEG me for giving your unit a bad review.

I don't like your unit, deal with it.

[Cross Punisher]

The part that I dislike the most about this unit is the 0 recovery for moving. That makes it seems overpowered to me.

[Sodamoeba]

The part that I dislike the most about this unit is the 0 recovery for moving. That makes it seems overpowered to me.

Indeed. Please read this selection from serges CAU guidelines.

2. Recovery Time: All units (except for wards) use the same formula for recovery time. The number given under a unit's special abilities is the recovery time for when a unit both uses it's ability (attacks, heals, etc.) and moves on the same turn. The recovery time for when a unit only moves is one-half the given recovery time rounded down. For just using an ability it is half the given recovery time rounded up. (So if a Pyromancer moves and attacks it has to wait 3 turns before it can move again. If it attacks, but doesn't move, it has to wait 2 turns. If it moves, but doesn't attack, it has to wait 1 turn.) Wards serve the full wait time for just attacking, since they can't move.


Also, it doesnt say 0 recovery for moving. It says 0 recovery period.

[Cross Punisher]

Also, it doesnt say 0 recovery for moving. It says 0 recovery period.
Then that should be some kind of error because you can't divide anything by 0, not even 0. :cool:

[Sodamoeba]

yep. Maybe he means it doesnt need to recover, so in 5 turns it can do 400 damage :confused:

[MokoToko]

Horribly powerful, this unit could obliterate a turtle in 2-3 turns. Try again

The 0 recovery is absolutely ridiculous! A knight with 0 recovery would be overpowered, so why would this guy who has the potential to do so much more damage have 0. you obviouasly weren't thinking.

[Cardplayer89]

Well, the recovery IS ridiculous, this unit should have a recovery time similar to the witch. Also, being a golem, blocking should be 0.

Legacy, you are mistaken about harming 5 units, as 2 units cannot share a space. The maximum damage would be 80 (on units lacking armor), and if it cannot move back and forth, there is no way to kill a single unit in one turn (assuming full hp).
EX:

XX
OE
S

Key:
X=unoccupied movement spaces
O=Cleric/Witch (only 2 units it could kill in one turn)
S=Starting point
E=End point

As you can see, this golem starts one space south of the south-west corner. Moving north 2 spaces, east 1 space, and south 1 space takes 4 out of 5 movement. It cannot double back over to attack again, as 2 units cannot occupy one space (even if the unit is going to be killed by the attack).

Other than that, it seems like the Gold version of a DMW. I like it.

4/10 because of the blocking and recovery times. Fix those, and I'd give it 10/10.

[legacy67]

Ok, let me do an illustration.

If the Light Golem has a movement range of 5 spaces it can go from point A to point B like so:

XXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXX
XAXXXXBX
XXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXX

Now, lets say that, for examples sake, all 5 spaces are occupied by knights, AND that the last one has only 5 hp left, as so:

XXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXX
XGKKKKKX
XXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXX

The knight in red not having enough HP to withstand the attack. Hence the grid would next look like this:

XXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXX
XLKKKKGX
XXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXX

The blue L beng where the golem started, and the green G being the space the LG can now occupy as the unit that was there has now been destroyed.

Now, if the LG moves and attacks the first 4, then it would be fine to land on the last square if unoccupied. But no one has stated that it cannot land on an occupied square IF AND ONLY IF the unit would be killed by the attack.
If the unit is destoyed on that 5th square, then wouldn't there be room for the LG? Or are you saying that you would not allow this manuver.

If you are saying you would not alow this to happen, the specify. but that would seem flawed since, why cant a unit occupy a space that used to have a unit and now does not?

[Sodamoeba]

tsssssss hes on fire :D

[Cardplayer89]

The anser to your question is simple. It must first move into a space, then attack, however, it cannot maintain that location. The reason would be the unit, while it might be dead, still has their body in that location. The golem would be attempting to reassemble it's body in a location already filled with a dead body, which would either A. cause it to be extremely misshapen and most likely killed or B. die because it's body is vaporized with the dead unit. Either way, all you have to do is make the space unoccupiable. Or, if you want some bullshit reason, the "dead spirit" remains in the space, just to make it seem more ghostly (like the unit itself).

Oh yeah, I forgot to include the DSM, Enchantress, and Pyromancers in the list of 2-hit kills. 5 units: Cleric, DMW, DSM, Enchantress, and Pyromancer.

EDIT: Also, he said the unit cannot move back and forth, and the only way to do that is to program the space to be incapable of moving back across... which means it couldn't double up anyway.

[legacy67]

It must first move into a space, then attack, however, it cannot maintain that location. The reason would be the unit, while it might be dead, still has their body in that location.

This is not true. In TAO, when a unit is destoryed, it immediately disappears.
I will use the example of a knight killing a cleric:

Here is the knight standing next to the cleric with low hp

XXXX
XKCX
XXXX

Next the knight kills the cleric, as shown below

XXXX
XKXX
XXXX

Then the knight moves onto that space

XXXX
XXKX
XXXX

As we can plainly see from the way the game code is currently written, there is no body or spirit preventing the knight from occupying the space. If this was the case, there would be a lot of unusable squares late in the game.

And I am waiting for an explanation from the creator of the unit. You are merely hypothesising an idea that has not been expressed by the designer.

[axident]

This unit does 20 damage to each unit is passes through, for a possible 100 damage each time it moves. Can it move back and forth on one turn? If so then it can kill a scout in one turn. Oh yeah, thats balanced. This is not a balanced units, a large number of the units on the board can't harm it, it has a huge range and 100 damage, and a very short wait. If there ever was an unbalanced unit, this is it.

Oh, and I think that most turtlers would be against a unit designed to stop turles, I mean, look at the GA's wonderful reception.

amen, you took the words out of my mouth. anything that can kill a cleric in one move (or in one 'walk' in this case) deserves extra high scrutiny... being able to kill a scout or many other units in one walk, or 100 pts of potential damage, is overkill. you might want to tone it down by reducing movement, increasing recovery, reducing damage, but even then, it's a mass-damage creature that can even block.. pair it up with dsm and/or wisp and/or mud and it's too strong.

[Cardplayer89]

Personally, this would be an excellent Turtle weapon for me... most mage bombs leave their units in a straight line (or stack them in 2 rows) and this could easily blast through their mages and do serious damage. As far as hypothesising, you are hypothesising as well, lol, until the creator figures something out, we will have to wait. (That is, if the creator is still alive... haven't heard back.)

[Sodamoeba]

Personally, this would be an excellent Turtle weapon for me... most mage bombs leave their units in a straight line (or stack them in 2 rows) and this could easily blast through their mages and do serious damage.

Thats the thing. It would do so much serious damage it would be just plain unfair. Like 4 DT attacks in 1 turn ;)

Just cause a unit would win you the game doesnt mean its good. You should need skill not crazy powerful units to win games.

[Cardplayer89]

lol, I never said it was the only way to win. I'm just saying calling it a Turtle buster is incorrect, as Turtles could use this to a distinct advantage. EDIT: Besides, this unit has a potential (assuming all non-armored units) to do a whopping *4* more damage than the DMW (assuming that killing a unit allows the LG to occupy that space)... AND it's even more of a challenge because of the fact it has to move into enemy territory to do anything. It would be incapable of killing the cleric in one move for this reason (unless an idiot gives it time to move into range, and then attack):

XC
XX
XX
XX
XX
XG

X=Empty space/Non-Cleric space
G=Light Golem
C=Cleric

The arena is 11 spaces long, 5 on each side and one down the middle to divide them. The closest the Golem can get is one space in front or the side, because the Golem is incapable of killing the Cleric in one hit (20 of 24 hp would be lost, leaving the Cleric in his spot). Even if the formation was like this (rare):

XC
XX
XX
XX
XG

The Golem still cannot kill the Cleric because it takes 4 spaces to attack the cleric, and one more space to move away. As a matter of fact, the only way to kill the Cleric in one turn is this:

XGX
GCG
XGX

X=Empty square
C=Cleric
G=Potential Golem locations (4 total)

If you are not able to kill the golem by the time he sets up next to your Cleric and attacks again, you probably deserve to lose the Cleric (if he gets rid of the blocking and armor for the Golem, and increases it's HP to the standard 60 per Golem).

[Sodamoeba]

when have you ever hit 4 mages with 1 witch attack?

[Cardplayer89]

When would you ever hit 4 mages with this one? And even if they did line all their units up for a mage bomb, you could only deal damage to 3 units to begin, as it would require one space of unoccupied square movement to reach the front lines, and one unoccupied space to move off the line (can't kill any units in one move).

[Cardplayer89]

I think a bump is called for here :D I still think this unit is good, lol.

[ent__89]

Hay guys, sorry for the absense(computer trouble)....
Let me settle the arguement once and for all, the unit can only hit up to 4 units in one turn, because its attack is a byproduct(so-to-speak) of its movement. This meaning you can not target a square currently occupied as your space to land on, becasue the attack is under the movement function.

Its attack is also going to have to follow LOS, meaning that in order to even attack 4 units they would have to be in a row, hence why it could have the potential to successfully fend off rushes.

Oh and Legacy, i neg repped you for being and ignorant fool, not for disliking my ideas....

All of the changes/specifications listed above will be edited ASAP

[ent__89]

This will probrebly be a double post but it is on a somewhat different subject, that i feel should be brought to the attention of community.

I recently got neg repped from Legacy(which i understand why and this is not an attack on him) for neg repping him about a comment. What i have a problem with is that following that i also got 7 more neg reps due to me expressing my right to call Legacy ignorant....not only that, but since i doubt they ever saw my origenal comment to him i am very dissapointed in the fact that any-one would say such hard words on hearse alone, for example...
"Dumbass- Prophet" or "Suck it. -Dove".

There were also some people who neg reped me that didnt even know the full situation, "Do not neg someone just for disagreeing with you. Especially not when he gives reasonable arguements. Plus the fact that he's right." and "Put a unit out there, deal with criticism, that's the only way to make a better product. Way to have a good attitude about some constructive ideas. - rood."

Some people just have no class, and it bothers me people could say these type of things just because Legacy got neg reped and had a little hissy fit becasue of it, that is so MIddle School...i mean come on, i think it is time to grow up.... :dry:

[legacy67]

Well, thanks for that insult, get ready for another round of negs.

I don't understand why you think I'm an ignorant fool. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that many of the people who post in CAU would say otherwise.

So I didn't already know that it was not allowed to finish on a square and kill, you should have specified.

Also, you had not yet specified about the backtracking thing.

And I am sorry, but the fact that it cannot be hurt by the knight, assasin, muddy punch, or beast rider makes it overpowered. Not to mention 50% blocking against the scout and GA. Some good BW work and a cleric, this thing is nearly unstopable, especially if you save it until late in the game.

But again, thanks for the name calling. It really makes people like and respect you.

And actually, every one of those people saw the comment and read the thread. They also saw the feedback you left me "Neg-rep for ignorance, shame on you! ~Ent~". So my friends came to get my back. And you know what, I would do the same for them if some jerk started name calling and neg repping them for no good reason. If you can't take the heat, then don't neg because people give bad reviews of your unit. And you keep calling me ignorant, but never actually explain why the post you negged me for was so ignorant.

And THAT my friends, is ignorance.

[ent__89]

I called you ignorant for the fact that you were being sarcastic, counter-productive, and that fact that you said the unit could do 100 damage by landing on a space currently occupied by another unit(mostly this last reason)....
As for the neg repping its not the neggs themself that bother me, its the things people say without reason....Like i said, its very Middle School, its just a lot of "My friend doesn't like you, so i don't!".

[legacy67]

Well, sarcasm beghets sarcasm.

In the future, I will remember that a little sarcasm irreperably harms your self esteem.

And it wasn't unreasonable to assume (since you hadn't yet specified otherwise) that if a unit had low enough HP to be killed by the Light Golem, that the LG could move to the space, kill it, and occupy it.

[roody poo]

"Put a unit out there, deal with criticism, that's the only way to make a better product. Way to have a good attitude about some constructive ideas. - rood."

Some people just have no class, and it bothers me people could say these type of things just because Legacy got neg reped and had a little hissy fit becasue of it, that is so MIddle School...i mean come on, i think it is time to grow up.... :dry:

Time to grow up.... you mean kinda like crying about a neg rep that doesn't really insult you except for pointing out the fact that you can't take constructive criticism? HAHA. You have officially shown to me your argument holds no merit.

In other words since you seem rather immature, let me break it down...
My rep that you quoted personally insults you in no way. Just points out that you got mad b/c someone didn't agree with your unit in one way or another. Had you not gotten an attitude about constructive criticism then I would have never negged you. If you look in the mirror you will see yourself exibiting that same "middle school" behavior you are crying about while my rep only points out a fact about your actions. :dry:

[ent__89]

I am sorry for the misconseption, but i guess i didnt convey the point that this units attack is under its movement function, thereby not having the ability to target an occupied space...

Any comments on my last edit or unit in general are appreciated! :bigsmile:

[roody poo]

I am sorry for the misconseption, but i guess i didnt convey the point that this units attack is under its movement function, thereby not having the ability to target an occupied space...

Any comments on my last edit or unit in general are appreciated! :bigsmile:

Well, identifying the "misconseption" instead of bowing up on people will keep neg reps to a minimum. Unlike you stated that I probably didn't know the situation.... well that is wrong as well. I had read the unit, had some of the same questions about your ideas, talked to legacy and found out what was going on. Eventhrough all that...

...I never personally attacked you and until I do it would probably be a good idea to keep personal attacks on me out of your posts. I don't have to put you on my flame list but talk about me in that manner again and I will. :aggress:

[ent__89]

While i do not know where you got that i made a personal attack on you i will take into account that you feel that way, my last comment of my post when i said that some people were acting like Middle Schoolers was not directed towards you, but rather the many people who just wrote things like, you suck, go away, and many momma' jokes..

[roody poo]

While i do not know where you got that i made a personal attack on you i will take into account that you feel that way, my last comment of my post when i said that some people were acting like Middle Schoolers was not directed towards you, but rather the many people who just wrote things like, you suck, go away, and many momma' jokes..


Then why include my quote unless stating that mine was not along the same lines as the others. Noone would read that post and not assume you were lumping me into the same category. While I can understand you not liking some of the reps you got, my comments were nowhere near those lines and thus shouldn't have been included in your post. I am sorry you got your feelings hurt but I don't take kindly to be accused of things I am not guilty of. Like I said in my pm reply to you... this is only going to last as long as you choose.

[Twelve]

*arrives*

Alright, I see Roody has this place secured. Twelve out.

12

[axident]

Oops I see what the author is saying about it only being able to harm 4 units and comparing it to DSM/DMW. But its higher defense and ability to do not just line-attacks but walk around makes it more versatile; opening move, your opponent is in a line? Great! Your opponent is not? Great! The low recovery and mass damage aspect is what makes it super-overkill though, especially paired up with certain other units like mud golem, wisp, or, heck, DSM and DMW lol. That said, I think everybody needs to calm down; people get riled up so easily in CAU but just keep the criticisms constructive and don't be defensive about your initial iteration of a unit. I'm sure most or all of the real TAO units had different stats than they originally had.. heck, mud golem didn't used to have quake, and assassin didn't used to have the bomb. Most of the time it's hard to get a unit just right the very first time.

[nomar]

This will probrebly be a double post but it is on a somewhat different subject, that i feel should be brought to the attention of community.

I recently got neg repped from Legacy(which i understand why and this is not an attack on him) for neg repping him about a comment. What i have a problem with is that following that i also got 7 more neg reps due to me expressing my right to call Legacy ignorant....not only that, but since i doubt they ever saw my origenal comment to him i am very dissapointed in the fact that any-one would say such hard words on hearse alone, for example...
"Dumbass- Prophet" or "Suck it. -Dove".

There were also some people who neg reped me that didnt even know the full situation, "Do not neg someone just for disagreeing with you. Especially not when he gives reasonable arguements. Plus the fact that he's right." and "Put a unit out there, deal with criticism, that's the only way to make a better product. Way to have a good attitude about some constructive ideas. - rood."

Some people just have no class, and it bothers me people could say these type of things just because Legacy got neg reped and had a little hissy fit becasue of it, that is so MIddle School...i mean come on, i think it is time to grow up.... :dry:

Talk about no class....Negging someone that disagreed with your "unit", NICE. Then crying about getting negged for being a complete idiot. Do us all a favor and stop posting in the TAO forums.

[Volcom]

Has any one else noticed that all these n00bs, and realy annoying posters O_o
have that same avatar... whenever i look they always have that stupid skull..
huh maybe its me..

[ent__89]

I am not a n00b, and when i chose this avetar nobody else had it....