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Cardplayer89
09-02-2005, 04:02 PM
Green is for edits.

In the moist, dank jungle where none but the most demonistic of beasts exist, a single vine threatened to kill everything it touched. Humans, the curious beasts they are, wandered into the midst of this curious plant, and decided at once it was perfect for battle when it grabbed a Knight and crushed him in naught but 3 seconds. After hacking away so much vine, the plant died, and the humans collected what cuttings they had and took off. Since then, kingdoms have stolen bits and pieces, although none of the generations have ever been as great as the original vine. Tracking it's prey through electrical impulses, Lightning Wards are often found bound tightly by this unit, even when many other people are gathered around. Nonetheless, this plant has become amongst the most feared sight on the field of battle...

Thorny Vines (Plant)
Anatomy of the Thorny Vine: I know, this is a new section, but in order to properly understand this unit, it MUST be here. This unit occupies one space, which, from here on out, will be known as the Vine Core. From the Core, you can grow a maximum of 4 "growths" at a time (one from each adjacent square). If you place your Core along the arena wall, you only get 3 maximum growths, and if you place it in a corner, you only get 2 maximum growths. These growths are what do all the moving and attacking.

Maximum Number per Army: 1 (Thorny Vines are highly intolerant of each other, and as such, no more than one Vine is able to grow on the battlefield per army) Also, using this unit does not allow a Lightning Ward on your side, as it would wrap it up.
HP: 45
Armor: 0
Blocking: 0%
Recovery: 3 turns attack, 1 turn move
Movement: 1 square*
Attack Range: 2** (see Code)
Attack: 5 for Wrap/10 for Strangle (Wrap is blockable, Strangle is not)
Attack Pattern:
1. Wrap- 2 squares distance, 1 square damage (range of Enchantress+unit square, but only 1 square can be targeted, LOS applies). In other words, you can attack a unit standing on the end of a growth when recovered. This attack causes the Vine to grow rapidly, seizing a unit within it's reach and wrapping them from head to toe in thick vines. 5 damage is issued (if successful), if it is blocked, the growth falls into the square it attacked as though it moved there. (The growths MUST attack a unit! A growth may NOT attack a square that is unoccupied.) If a growth occupies a space within 2 squares of a Lightning Ward, it will attack the Lightning Ward when it is next recovered, ending your turn. Take note, a Vine growth will not attack an opposing Vine's growth. The two growths would simply entangle each other, and kill each other off, so the Vine avoids this. Wards CAN be wrapped and entangled, however, due to the wrapping, Lightning Wards can ONLY attack the growth that has it wrapped, and the Barrier Ward can only barrier itself. Any unit that is seized is incapable of moving or attacking, however, 100% blocking is added to the unit as anything that would normally strike the wrapped unit hits the Vine, Healing included. Attacking the wrapped unit (or the vine leading up to it on the same square***) twice or attacking the Vine Core will undo the wrapping, freeing the unit. Wrapping also counts as movement, so there is no "attack only," only attack AND move*****. Once wrapped around a unit, the growth may not "jump" from one unit to the next. Only one unit may be wrapped per growth at a time.
(I'm going to try a code... I have nooooo idea what it is, so let's see if it works :D)
**
XXOXX
XOOOX
OOTOO X=non-attackable space
XOOOX O=attackable space
XXOXX T=Thorny Vine growth ending

NOTE: ONLY the ends of the Vine's growths can do damage. Walking over any part
of the growth will NOT incur damage, even walking over the end of it.
The Vine must attack to do damage.

2. Strangle- This attack occurs after a unit has been successfully wrapped. After every round (wrapping turn not included), a wrapped unit has 10 unblockable damage inflicted (amour applies). The only way to stop this damage is to cut the Vine off (attacking it twice***) or attack the Vine Core****. Once a unit is wrapped, Barrier Wards have no effect on the strangle attack, however, both the unit and the growth are protected by the barrier.

EX1: Player A's Vine attacks a Pyromancer. The Pyromancer is dealt 5 damage for the successful wrap, and A's turn ends. Player B attacks the wrapped unit with a Scout, and ends his turn. Player A then forgets and attack the Pyromancer with his Scout. The Vine growth releases it's hold on the Pyromancer, and A's turn ends. Player B's Pyromancer may now attack and move.

EX2: Player A's Vine attacks a Pyromancer. The Pyromancer is dealt 5 damage for the successful wrap, and A's turn ends. Player B attacks the Vine Core. The growth releases it's wrap, and drops to the ground as though it had moved to that square. The Pyromancer is now free to move and attack.

EX2: Player A's Vine attacks a Pyromancer. The Pyromancer is dealt 5 damage for the successful wrap, and A's turn ends. Player B attacks the wrapped unit, and ends his turn. Player A moves, but does not attack the Vine. 10 damage is dealt to the Pyromancer. Player B attacks the wrapped unit again. The Vine growth drops to the ground as though it had moved to that square. The Pyromancer is now free to move and attack.

EX3: Player A's Vine attacks a Pyromancer. The Pyromancer is dealt 5 damage for the successful wrap, and A's turn ends. Player B heals with his Cleric. The Vine has 12 HP recovered. Player A moves, and at the end of his turn, the Pyromancer is dealt 10 damage. B goes. A goes, the Pyromancer is dealt 10 damage. B goes. A goes, the Pyromancer is dealt 10 damage, dies, and the Vine growth drops to the ground as though it moved there.

*- The Vine grows out one space at a time. Up to 4 growths may be allowed at one time (one from each side), however, only one growth is permitted to move per turn. In order to "grow" your growths, you must first "move" the Vine Core (that will cause a growth to extend in the direction you made it move. Also, since the growth grows along the ground, it does NOT restrict movement of other units. They can stand on/walk over growths. Growths CAN grow back over themselves, but the 2-hit rule still applies.

***- Each growth has no HP, rather, attacking the growth anywhere along the line kills from that square forward. Killing a growth will deal 10 damage to the Thorny Vine NOTE: In order to kill that square, the same square MUST be attacked twice. Also, killing the Vine Core (the actual unit) kills all growths.

****- Attacking the Vine Core (main part) will cause all growths to release the unit they have wrapped. The growths do not die, but just fall to the ground.

*****- If this unit's growths MOVE under a unit (friend or foe), it simply shares the space with that unit. No wrapping occurs. However, if you ATTACK with the growth, it wraps, and that counts as move and attack.

Question for those who decide to read this:
End game unit or not? I'm leaning towards no, simply because it has a potential for 4 "units" (4 growths) to attack with, which makes it too powerful for an endgame face off. However, it is open for argument.

Cardplayer89
09-02-2005, 04:03 PM
Note: This was not intended to be like Wall of Vines.

EDIT: Wasn't intended to resemble Poison Ivy either.

Cardplayer89
09-02-2005, 04:36 PM
Nvm, lol, I wanna see what Legacy says about it first, rather than edit quite yet.

Well, since I tripled posted anyway, might as well make use of the post.

This one came to be because I was going to reduce the damage, but... I can't decide if it's too powerful, or if an armored unit would simply reduce it's effectiveness. Also, I need to change the movement/attack thing... I have a couple edits I want to make. Mostly, moving under units and working on the Entangle attack... I think it was over-powered, and I figured out a way to reduce the over-poweredness :D

legacy67
09-02-2005, 05:13 PM
I have some actual WORK to do. :p (Yes I do have real work, it just so happens that august is the end of the legislative session so I have little to do in the office a the moment.)

I will post a response either in an hour if I can get a some new intern to take this off my hands or later tonight if I actually have to do my job for the first time in weeks.

Looks like it'll a blast to read though.

Cardplayer89
09-03-2005, 02:41 PM
zzzz...

lol, still not a single comment about the unit, other than it might be interesting :P Someone, I beg you, rate it! lol :D

legacy67
09-03-2005, 03:09 PM
As I understand the unit, it is a garunteed 35 damage unless the Vone core is attacked. That alone seems very strong, basically an automatic kill for many units. I am also not sure about how the movement works. Is the growth unable to move without attacking? does the core have to move somewhere in order to help the growths move. Please explain the movement better.

As an attack, this seems to be the ultimate rush stopper. Place one of these near your cleric and see if anything even tries to come near.

I'm still not sure about this unit, mostly due to the movement questions, but I can see this being deadly late in the game.

Also, think about using this and a LW to protect your cleric. You could make it nearly impossile for a ranged attacker to get a decent shot off without sacraficing.

Right now, it seems a little strong, but I need to think some more.

Cardplayer89
09-03-2005, 03:24 PM
As I understand the unit, it is a garunteed 35 damage unless the Vone core is attacked. That alone seems very strong, basically an automatic kill for many units.

Yes, it is strong, however, it takes forever to work it's way up to an attacking position (unless you place it right on the frontline, in which the Core is highly succeptable to attack, causing it to release the unit immediately).

I am also not sure about how the movement works. Is the growth unable to move without attacking? does the core have to move somewhere in order to help the growths move. Please explain the movement better.

Yeah, the movement is a little confusing, lol. The growths CAN move without attacking, however, it can only move 1 space per turn it is recovered. To start your growths, you have to tell the Vine Core to move (the Core will not actually move, it will send out the start of a growth). Attacking is done the same way you would tell a Scout to attack without moving, however, it can only hit up to 2 spaces away in one move. In order to attack, however, it must target a unit, and not an empty space. Also, attacking counts as both move and attack, so 3 turn recovery is guarenteed.

As an attack, this seems to be the ultimate rush stopper. Place one of these near your cleric and see if anything even tries to come near.

Yes, it would make any rusher think twice about sending in a single unit, however, if there is any sort of a ranged supporter, the Core can easily be shot and made to drop the unit. I forgot... only one growth is permitted to attack a unit at one time. The main reason this is only a moderate fear is that if a growth is halfway across the board, it will take multiple turns to be capable of getting back to protect the Core. If someone doesn't send the growths out, however, it is easy pickings for ranged units.

Also, think about using this and a LW to protect your cleric. You could make it nearly impossile for a ranged attacker to get a decent shot off without sacraficing.

Not really, as the ranged attack could just kill the growth, recover, move in, shoot the Core (or kill new growths) and remain out of the reach of the LW. Since the Core is incapable of movement, there is no way to keep it protected completely from a mage (only ranged attack it would be able to avoid is the Mud-Quake, as the range is only 3). The more I think about it however, the more I'm thinking to not make it an end-game unit. However... I think I'm going to up the recovery to three turns, that way it can still move at the same rate, but attacking with it will take much longer to recover.

Cardplayer89
09-03-2005, 09:30 PM
Bumped because it needs to be graded by people!!!! And Legacy hasn't re-evaluated my changes yet :P

Cross Punisher
09-03-2005, 11:42 PM
:eek: I'll try for an actual review tomorrow or maybe later tonight cause thats complicated.

Just answer this: It seems that the unit is only able to move by attacking units. Can it only move where it has killed something?

Cardplayer89
09-03-2005, 11:44 PM
Yeah, the movement is a little confusing, lol. The growths CAN move without attacking, however, it can only move 1 space per turn it is recovered. To start your growths, you have to tell the Vine Core to move (the Core will not actually move, it will send out the start of a growth). Attacking is done the same way you would tell a Scout to attack without moving, however, it can only hit up to 2 spaces away in one move. In order to attack, however, it must target a unit, and not an empty space. Also, attacking counts as both move and attack, so 3 turn recovery is guarenteed.

Couple posts up :)

ironhorse123
09-04-2005, 07:56 AM
Cardplayer there is no need to keep bumping your unit. It will get read as long is it is on page 1 pretty much.

The one thing I say about all your units are they seem to have moster HP. Yes this unit has no blocking, but don't you think it would block with soime vines. 75,80 HP is a ton. This counts as 1 unit while the DT counts as 2 and has less HP. Personally I think you need to make your units more real. They seem to be like monsters to me.

Cardplayer89
09-04-2005, 07:59 AM
The reason for so much HP is that killing the growths on it take out 10 HP. Killing all 4 growths someone starts would take it half way out, leaving only 35 HP and a completely defenseless unit.

legacy67
09-04-2005, 12:48 PM
I still thjink this would be too strong with a LW.

First, you could set up your scouts and one knight as a strong side defense flanking the Thorny vines. If some jerk tries to rush with a scout as backup, you rail on the scout with whatever units you have set to defend the Core.

Secondly, everyone always talks about how a BW would make whatever unit unstopable, but this is actually one of those times. If you have a Vine Core set up more towards the front, and a BW way in the back (well protected), you could do a lotof damage, even get a few kills before the core could be hit. Basically it is still too strong.

Cardplayer89
09-04-2005, 12:52 PM
Hm... I'll change it to 10 damage every other turn (Player A wraps, B goes, A goes and 10 damage is issued, etc.). The Barrier Ward has no effect on the growths, and you cannot BW a growth, so killing the growth does 10 damage to the Core with or without a Barrier on... I'll have to add that in... But... should moving a growth turn off the BW? I wouldn't think so, as the growth is unaffected by the BW in any other way.

Also, what if I drop the wrap damage to 5?

ironhorse123
09-04-2005, 12:55 PM
Sorry to get off topic, but how do you get the code thing for your attacks Card Player?

Cardplayer89
09-04-2005, 12:56 PM
type and without the period. Place all your text between the brackets, like you would italics or color.

ironhorse123
09-04-2005, 12:58 PM
Ok thanks!

XAX
ANA
XAX

just testing!

Cardplayer89
09-04-2005, 01:09 PM
Ok, made the changes mentioned earlier and dropped it's HP to 45 (basically, killing 4 growths will nearly kill the unit).

Cross Punisher
09-04-2005, 10:52 PM
I'm still pretty lost about the growth part. Let me see if I have this straight. The Core is able to grow up to a maximum of 4 growths which are the part that attacks. Can each individual growth then "move" and make more growths and continue doing this as long as the growths attack a unit?

legacy67
09-04-2005, 10:55 PM
No, the core can create up to 4 growths. Eac growth can move 1 square at a time, 2 if attacking (moves one square, then attacks). None of the growths can create new growths.

Cardplayer89
09-04-2005, 11:00 PM
Legacy has it down pat :) dunno if he likes the modifications or not tho... he didn't say anything about it in that post :confused: lol :D

Cept the moving part... it cannot move, then attack. The attack counts as both move and attack.