Neglector Orb (NEO)

[ironhorse123]

Before us humans were born there lived a creature far greater then others. This creature lurked in the deep sewers of the hot lava in Mount Nafugu. It lived off the hot lava and was kept alive by an orb. This is was no special orb, it was the Neglector Orb.

Neglector Orb: Human Unit (Contraption)

Desription: The NEO looks like a pearl floating in the air. It shines like it is lit with a white fire. It floats up and down and has a little black hole on the top. This hole emits the light around the NEO.

HP: 30
Attack: --
Armor: 15
Movement Range: --
Attack Range: 3 spaces
N: NEO A: Attack X: Regular Space

XXXAXXX
XXAAAXX
XAAAAAX
AAANAAA
XAAAAAX
XXAAAXX
XXXAXXX

Blocking: 0% while in focus and 40% when not in focus
Turn Recovery: 4 Turns= Attack

Special Abilitys:
The Neglector Orb is a special orb that puts a protective shield around a unit. This shields allows the unit to heal when it is hit. It heals half the life of the attack.

Example: The NEO is used on a scout. The next turn your opponent attacks the scout with his knight. Instead of the scout taking 20 damage the scout heals 10 HP. So if the scout was at 30 HP it goes up to 40 HP. The scout takes no damage from the knight. When the unit is attacked it heals half the life it is supposed to take with the armor of the scout applied. Notice the scout heals 10 not 11 because the scouts armor cancels out the 2 damage from the knight.

It is a focus attack. When the NEO is hit the force field around the unit the NEO is focused on is broken. The unit that attack the force fielded unit still takes its normal recover time to recover. If the NEO blocks an attack then the focus is not broken. When force fielded by the NEO it cannot be healed by the cleric. A unit can walk while force fielded and not break the force field. The only way the force field can be broken is by hitting the NEO or when the NEO's recovery is back to 0 and can attack again. So the force field lasts only 5 turns and then wears off.

Tactics for the Neglector Orb:
The Neglector Orb can be used in any form and be useful. It should be placed in the center of your form, so it can use its force field on your cleric as well as knight or scout. It must be well protected so its focus isn't broken. A furgon can be used to protect it as well as a Barriar Ward. As long as its focus isn't broken it can act as a mini cleric to a unit. While an opponent is concentrating on your NEO you can kill his/her cleric or his/her scout.

Changes will be made in orange.
Suggestions are welcome as always! :)

[Morning Star]

Hmm, not a bad idea, i will praise mostly everyones idea;s if there some thought however i dont think this one will get much feedback du to it being basically like a secondary cleric. I mean if you have 2 clerics why not just use those? Someone come along and tell me if im off base here but thats just the way i see it.

[ironhorse123]

Personally I don't think it is exactly like a second cleric. It doesn't heal it just makes a shield that if attacked heals. The max the shield can heal is 15. Which is only from a LW attack.

[Cardplayer89]

Well, for how you described the use, this unit is useless. No person in their right mind would attack a unit under the influence of this. On the other hand, if you attack your own unit...

However, I still do not approve of this unit. At endgame, this unit could easily make it impossible to win by shielding a ranged unit (or even a melee unit). The opponent would first have to attack the NEO, wasting a minimum of 2 turns (one to attack, one to recover), and almost guarenteed to waste more like 3-5 turns. This would give a player too great an advantage... nice idea, but it just doesn't work.

[Morning Star]

Well in that case in the words of Legacy( I love that guy :bigsmile: )"Overpowered" Seeing as if any of those units are stoned up basically any damage to them would be for naught. Can the units under the NEO shield also be healed by the cleric? If so this unit would be hell for the other opponent especially if you use this thing then barrier it. and depending on what the other guy has(say no long range units) it could be game over quick,fast, and in a hurry.

Edit* Damn Cardplayer getting back b4 me :p

[ironhorse123]

If you don't like it because of its strategy then thats weird. You brought up a great point that I didn't think of attacking your own units.....
If your to lazy to play a end game the sorry, but FYI some games take 1-2 hours. I edited it because when combined with the cleric it isn't fair for it to heal the force fieleded unit.

[Morning Star]

but FYI some games take 1-2 hours.

From my experiences i've had 2 that have lasted longer than an hour and i was Grey the other guy was Gold...so to me thats rare

[Cardplayer89]

lol, it's not that I'm too lazy to play, it's that this unit gives an end-game unit a TREMENDOUS advantage, one that is simply too big. Don't take criticisms personally, it takes a couple tries to get a unit right (trust me, out of the 6 units I've made, only one has fared decently).

[ironhorse123]

Yes, but if both players have one then. And also I normally have 1 knight and a scout at the end. With a knight and scout u can break the shield with scout and attack the unit while it doesn't have a shield. The scout can get 2 attacks in before the NEO can attack again. Also remember the NEO has a range of 3 so it can't attack far enough it hit units on the opponet's side unless it is used in the frontline which means it is killed early. :)

[Morning Star]

None of my idea's have fared really too well although ive only tried 3 so far :p

[Cardplayer89]

lol, the point is not if both people have it, but if one person has it. Yes, if you have a Scout at the end, it does not poise much of a problem. However, if both people only have a Knight, and only one person has the NEO, the advantage is simply too great to be acceptable.

[ironhorse123]

Yes, but most smart players would either plan to kill the NEO early or make sure they have a GA, scout, wisp or something to use in the end to cancel it. But if the NEO and the knight vs. the knight in the end then the person with the NEO won. That is way the game works. ;)

[Cardplayer89]

Ok, so what if you used it on a unit in the beginning of the game, keeping the NEO in the back so that any Scout or GA capable of hitting it is doomed? Anything that makes units invincible have to have some serious consideration... this one is simply too powerful.

[ironhorse123]

It isn't invinceable. All you have to do is hit the NEO. With a 30% chance of blocking it is mostly likely going to hit. Also it's range is 3 not 7. It can't reach that far so if you keep it in the back then it can't reach a knight/scout/assassin in the frontline.

[legacy67]

First probelm I see is that the NEO can block while in focus. This would be the only unit ever allowed to do this, so I was just checking to make sure that this was intentional.

I see this mostly as a turtle unit. Put this in the back of the turtle with your cleirc, cast the focus on a muddy or something equally fun (I could see putting a DSM in my turlte purely for this unit. The hack away.

Basically, if you defend it right, this unit can turn a scout into a doubly deadly weapon. Rush in, kill the cleric, and take naught for damage. Basically the strategy would rely on killing the scouts and GA, then "Negelcting" (funny) some unit and wreaking havoc.

I can see the tactical uses for the unit, but I am generaly not in favor of any unint that significantly extends the length of a game, or one that could nearly garuntee a win late in the game.

[ironhorse123]

You're right Legacy I will change the blocking to 0% while in focus!
EDIT: So legacy as a judge right now would it get a "yes" or "no"?

[legacy67]

morning star - cheater. Deleted from GL, R

Umm, Morning Star, what's the deal with this?

Sorry to go off topic but WTF? I'm sure Iron doesn't want cheaters posting on his thread.

[ironhorse123]

Your welcome to go off-topic Legacy :)

[legacy67]

You're right Legacy I will change the blocking to 0% while in focus!
EDIT: So legacy as a judge right now would it get a "yes" or "no"?

As of now it would not get any vote because I'm still thinking about the merits of the unit. In general, I don't like units that prolong the game, nor do I like units that give a strong advantage late in the game. I also think that healing should be reserved for the Cleric, as he does such a fine jobof it already.

That being said, I haven't decided yet.

[Morning Star]

Sorry to go off topic but WTF? I'm sure Iron doesn't want cheaters posting on his thread.

Dude that is seriously fuked up :dry: ...I made a mistake when i first started playing i understand that. Ive put it behind me...I'll PM you the deatails if you want but damn man

Question? Where the hell did that come from, that you had to check me out?

[Cardplayer89]

He was prolly looking at the list (I was browsing it, no reason, lol, I got bored halfway down) and saw your name.

[Morning Star]

Yea but even though PM that crap to me :mad: ...that made me feel bad for a minute. But whatever if thats how he's gonna be thats how he's gonna be.

[ironhorse123]

It wouldn't prolong the game to much since most clerics are taken out early. With 30 HP almost guarented 3 attacks would hit it. Possibly even 2. Do you think I should change the blocking to 20% when not in focus?

[Cardplayer89]

I don't think you should have it at all, lol.

However, on the subject of blocking, it should have 0% all the time IMO. Clerics have 0%, and this unit is more powerful than a Cleric is. Imagine if you are set up for a turtle, you send out a unit with this on him. Put the NEO deep in your turtle where it can't be touched without suiciding a unit, and you basically have an instant win, as they can't touch him.

[ironhorse123]

Witchs in the front line can hit is almost all the time if they are on the right side. It will allows a dsm with dragon/scout or any unit to kill it 2nd turn.

[Cardplayer89]

Uhm... Witches can most definitely NOT hit it... same with the DSM. Tyrant has a wide open shot, but that is just suicide for the Tyrant, and sending a Scout in to shoot it (assuming a shot is available) is almost guarenteed suicide. Why can Witches and DSM's not hit it? Simple.

W
X
U
X
X
X
N

W=Witch/Pyro/DSM
X=Empty space
U=Any opposing units

That would be the standard setup for using this unit, so as to protect it from the Witches and Pyros and DSM (basically, the same thing people do with Clerics).

[ironhorse123]

X=empty space. Just say the witch moves up 1 and it can hit it. The witch can move you know.

[Cardplayer89]

Witch has a range of 4.... you have actually played this game, right?

W
U
X
X
X
N

The Witch can hit the U and all three X's... but not the N.

[ironhorse123]

There is no guarentee that they will have something if front of it. You are just playing scenarios. You're looking at this unit as if it has 70 power when it has 30 2 hits kill it. It doesn't require a kill of 2 scouts or something.

[Cardplayer89]

Uhm, Iron? Look at that post. Does it say Last Edited by Cardplayer89 at: anywhere at the bottom there? No. You misread it, everyone does it. Don't take things personally here.

EDIT: You edited your own post, but still, don't take things personally.

Anyway... any good player would know to place a unit/ward in front of there. EVERYONE does. This is no exception.

[ironhorse123]

Yeah I edited mine because I did mis read your post. But scouts have LOS GA's attack over units. This unit can be killed without killing your own units. The force field can be used on 1 unit. That means they have 1 unit to attack they put it on scout. The scout attacks once. That has a 2 turn recovery kill the orb in the mean time.

[Cardplayer89]

Yes, but a 2 turn recovery can mean death to a Scout, and if not death then it will be extremely close to it. The GA is not usually used in turtles...

Anyway, the only way for a Scout to hit this is from the side or to move into a player's formation (which is guarenteed death).


This is a basic turtle formation, they are generally even better than this.
XXXXX
XUUUX
XXXXX
XXXXX
XXXXX
XXXN

The only way for a Scout to hit is A. move into the formation through the gap on the right or B. swing in from the left. Either way leaves the Scout extremely vulnerable to attack. As far as the GA goes, it's name is dirt to most people, and if you put it on the wrong side, then it is completely useless.

[ironhorse123]

Scouts can hit 6 spaces in front of them it doesn't require them to go into the set-up. All you have to do is m ove a little. To me it seems you're just afraid of using a unit. I mean you can take alook on any unit the way you're looking at thing. Take BW for example. It is normally used in the back because it has a range of 6. It has 100% blocking and more HP then the NEO. It can keep units alive, too. The NEO just allows the unit to move. Thats it. Since the NEO has 4 turn recovery it can pretty much be used once and then killed. You can kill the cleric and then the NEO before the NEO can be used a second time.

[Cardplayer89]

The problem with your theory is that with a Barrier Ward, the unit must remain completely still to maintain invincibility. The NEO, on the other hand, can be in one corner, Focus on a Knight, and that Knight can roam all over the board and kill without fear of retaliation. Also, for Scouts, you cannot hit anything in the back row while standing in front of a row of Knights:

SXX
KKX
XXX
XXX
XXX
XC (Scout will hit a Knight)

XSX
KKX
XXX
XXX
XXX
XC (Scout will hit a Knight)

XXS
KKX
XXX
XXX
XXX
XC (Scout will hit the Cleric, however, it will probably be surrounded by Knights and incapable of escaping death)

Also, if it swings around the left side, the Scout will again be blasted by enough units to quickly die.

[ironhorse123]

Yet again I believe you're forgetting that the NEO has 4 turn recovery. 2 scout can take it out. And remember scouts can move 4 spaces. So in all three of your scenarios the scout can hit the cleric if moved.

[ironhorse123]

Ok so befoer I submit this unit this is what I might change tell me what you think....


1. Blocking from 30% to 20%
2. Adding to tactics how you can attack yourself to gain life!

Thats it tell me what you think!

[Cardplayer89]

I would vote no, too many complications of how this unit is overpowered... maybe if you were to make it's attack a Focus attack where the Focus is broken when the unit moves....

If you Barrier this Ward, it would take too many turns to deactivate it.

If you use it, the person has to sacrafice at least one Scout to disarm it (or the GA, either one).

As the game progresses, if you were to still have this unit, it's power becomes greater and greater.

[ironhorse123]

If you BW a BW the same thing would happen. So don't play scenarios like that. It is a focus attack.

[legacy67]

The fact is, he has to play scenarios like that. Especially since (unlike with a BW) the unit can move and kill while under the focus effect. Don't tell him not to think of a specific scenario just because you don't like how it plays with your unit. The fact is that with a BW, this unit becomes nearly unstopable.

Most of Card's analysis has been dead on, this unit is too strong.

[ent__89]

I agree with the posts made that this unit is too strong, yet not by much..... I say that if there was a limit as to how long a unit can have the barier on him, maybe the effects would only last during the Orb's recovery period...this would prevent the unit from reaking extreme offensive havock, and would still help fend of annoying rushes(oh they urk me so :mad: ).....just a thought, but i kinda like the overall idea, because golds dont usually use the Barier Ward, so suping it up a little wouldnt realy hurt, but like i said, it is just a little too much..

[ironhorse123]

My point about making scenarios, legacy, was that I don't think many golds would waste 3 turns using the NEO on a unit, then using the BW on the NEO ,and then moving the unit by that time one of the opponent's units would be dead.

And ent I really like that idea where the force field lasts while the NEO is recovering. It lowers the pwoer of the NEO and makes the unit not as powerful because it has to be weary of the force field wearing off.

[Cardplayer89]

I would, lol, and then I would also take the time to shrub up my half the battlefield so you can't reach my BW. It would A. give me an invincible unit and B. make it a pain in the ass for you to make it mortal again. As far as lasting however long the recovery lasts, that's nothing, you just have to sit beside the device and wait. And yes, people are willing to do that. I once sat my Stoner beside my LW because all he had was a Knight with 23 HP, the exact amount the LW would take from him :P.

[ironhorse123]

With a range of 3 then the unit force fielded would have 5 turns to get attacks in a and go back. At that time you might be able to get one attack in. With the idea of having it run off when the recovery does the unit can't just wreck havoc. It has a permanent time to get back and while it is retreating attack it.

[Cardplayer89]

Huh? You just argued my point...

You would have 5 turns to go from Ward to unit, attack, get back, beef up again, go out, attack, return to Ward, beef up, attack... you see where this is going, right? Even with just a Knight, if you are within my attack range, I get 2 free shots miniumum... one after I'm NEO'd and one while you attempt to disarm the NEO.

[ironhorse123]

Yeah I missed the 't in the can. :p Anyways, with 2 attacks remember you can attack the NEO. It can't block, so it can be killed by the time the unit is out and back.

[Cardplayer89]

Except the NEO doesn't count as an endgame unit anyway... the whole point is that making a unit invincible has to have a way to limit the invincibility... if I were to just hover my unit around the NEO, I get at least one free shot, which is what 1v1 usually comes down to, who gets the first hit. However, if I make a unit uber-invincible by BWing the NEO, then throwing up tons of shrumbs, you are going to have a pain in the ass time trying to hit the BW, and meanwhile, for 5 turns (3 free hits for a Knight/Assassin/Scout standing still) my unit is rampaging through your entire formation, unstoppable. Imagine if I stone a Knight, NEO him, and then BW the NEO. You would have to hit the BW, then the NEO, and then I have a Knight with 55 armor, unhurt so far, rampaging through your formation, who has already killed a mage if not a Scout... this unit is simply overpowered. The abuse potential is huge, even for a complete noob.

[ironhorse123]

When you "Shrub yourself in" you can't get your knight out. Also, I'll make the turn recovery 4 is that better?

[Kyir]

I cant say I like this unit.

it's unprotected, and in most cases I wouldent heal as much as a cleric, not many people would be stupid enough to attack it, and the NEO dosnt exactly have good blocking, in truth, I'd rather use a barrier ward, and not many golds use that either, and all these units are made for golds...

If it had a better chance of surviving without dependeing on the BW or LoS blockage, it would be better. But those might unbalance it ><

[ironhorse123]

Ok think I should raise the blocking?

[CRX687]

I see an agressive version of the bward.

First of all, VERY low Hp, with only 30% blocking, this thing gets killed by 2 scout arrows even if unused. That makes it weak, and limits it to your back rows, which I think this is a weakening factor...

Since people will know the effect has taken place, they will not be attacking units affected by it... so basically, it's the same as a Bward in most cases. however, it allows you to attack your own unit for the heal... making it VERY powerful. Basically, you can use this like a Bward, retreat within range, use it's power, and slam it yourself to heal faster than normal, overcoming one of the major weaknesses of Bward (the barriered unit is often in low HP and canoot be healed). In exchange, you get a massively reduced range from 6 to 3.

Another aspect is the offensive aspect. SInce the unit can still move, you can use this effect (I'd say usually on a wisp or muddy, the fast moving ones that can get to where they need to be within the 5 turns, and stay there as a threat)... in this, it's in a way overpowered... though the 5 turn limit does limit it somewhat.

Overall, it's a terrible unit. Why? it promotes the pre-setting of forms. Only defensive forms, that are planning on going offensive will use this over bward... that means turtles. Of course, it's perfectly viable to add this instead of furgon, or take out dragon for something else and this in the standard turtle... but doing so makes the form even MORE vulnerable to rushes and bombs... as this is just another focus unit, and not as game changing as stoney or frosty or wisp.

The units is combo with are the slow ones. But using this along with those units will make the form as a whole too slow to be effective, unless your opponent uses an equally backward formation.

Suggestions for fixing this... give it some other ability that will make it preferable to frosty/stonies/wisps in a defensive formation.

[ironhorse123]

Thanks for the comments CRX. I think I will make blocking 40%. Although it won't change your opinion about the unit, it might make it a little better.

[Cross Punisher]

As I read all these posts I couldn't help but wonder why everyone thought it was overpowered. That was until I realized that the unit effected by the NEO can move and attack. Now I have no choice but to agree with them.

[ironhorse123]

Any last comments/suggestins? :huh: