Shaolin Fighter

[Kishin]

(I had this idea a while back for a character about a Shaolin Fighter, I noticed that my ideas are very similar to others ideas in the past, very much identical is the monk. I took note of several abuse possibilities and thought it best to clarify my ideas to make my idea of a Shaolin Fighter more unique compared to a Monk. With a slightly more original concept on a not so original character.)

Shaolin Fighter are monks trained in from far away mountains that are mostly passive. They use thier body as a weapon, and as a shield. Their training in combat is mostly self defense though they can attack, they prefer to not be aggressive. They are all around great warriors in defense, offense, and magic.

Shaolin Fighter wear a traditional garb that covers all of their body except for the upper left shoulder, and arm. The garb is the color of your team. They are mostly bald but with a long pony tail to their rear with a large ball on the end. (I don't know what they call them.)

Name: Shaolin Fighter
Health: 45
Attack: 12
Armor: 8
Recovery: 2(1)
Blocking: 50% Front 25% sides 10% back
Notes: His blocking method is much different from other units. Instead of directly blocking he turns and creates a chi barrier.
Movement: 4
Attack Pattern: Iron Fist... Hits a single Adject tile, much like a knight. Animation includes One lunging punch (A fancy punch on one leg), ducking low punch, and a rising hook kick.

Special Ability(s)
Meditate: Will produce a small barrier of glowing energy around the skin of the monk. He will automatically him to heal himself at the begging of your turn.

It is activated by holding down on the monk until his attack panels disappear. Afterwards he sits down and immediately gains 8hp and will continue to do so at the begging of each turn. Removing him from his meditation is the same way, but he will not be able to attack afterwards for that turn. Though he will be able to move(wait time will apply since he took action.)

Notes: A Shaolin Fighter cannot block melee attacks while meditating, but produces a small enough barrier that will have a 100% blocking rate for projectiles (Scout/Golem Ambusher) The shield does not though prevent from being hit by unblockable attacks.
When a Shaolin Fighter is attacked while in meditation he is returns to a normal state.

Additional Notes: A Shaolin Fighter meditating Cannot be healed by a cleric. His shield will take effect and block the healing, and he can not be targeted by a barrier ward as well while in meditation.

Counter attack: A passive ability (Not in meditation) When a monk is attacked, and he BLOCKS the monk will initiate a counter attack for 20 unblockable damage.

Notes: This only happens when a unit attacks him form an adject tile. If the damage is unblockable, he does not counter attack.
[I] Additional Notes: If a Shaolin Fighter is killed, he will not counter attack.

Back Blocking: A Shaolin Fighter is always aware of his surroundings, and has a 10% chance to block from behind.

Strategy: A Shaolin Fighter is great for end game, in a one on one situation. He has several uses in the game itself. His ability to block, and counter attack makes him perfect for dishing out damage to assassins, knights, wolf riders, or any other unit that attacks him up close. Also his ability to block from behind makes him a great unit all together.

Meditation has limited uses, best used in proper circumstances otherwise you have a great chance of losing your monk.
I think this is a good idea for a character but could need some tweaking of some things that I‘ve overlooked. I'd like to work with all of you on this to make it a possible character in the game itself. What do you think? I thought he should have a higher blocking ability, but I lowered it to lower the chance of counter attacking abuse.

To Clarify intent, I did not take my idea from other character designs. These are all my ideas for the Shaolin Fighter that do happen to be similar to other character such as the monk. I put plenty of effort into the thought and develop of this character with no outside influence.

[Sodamoeba]

That is the most overpowered thing ever.

1) he blocks in the back

2) he can heal 10 hp every single turn, and his focus cant even be broken except by melee! you could just activate the healing power and tuck him away behind a knight wall, safe and sound. Used correctly, he is almost unkillable.

3) he has a high attack for someone who doesnt like to be agressive.

4) very high armor for a human with no weapons or actual armor...

EDIT:

5) holy crap if he blocks he does 18 damage! :confused: With a 60% blocking rate?!?

[legacy67]

I'm sorry but this is just silly. Were you trying to create the strongest unit possible under the guise of medium HP and Power?

Lets see, self healing for 10 HP? Just bring him back in your formation and watch the fun since ranged attacks can't touch him.

Back blocking? Back blocking? The only thing more annoying that a DMW getting a side block would be a back block from this guy.

Retaliaiton? So, I come and do 18 damage, then I block and do 18 more damage? What if I block twice? At 60% blocking this is dangerous, especially since it is UNBLOCKABLE!

Yes you put lots of effort and thought into this unit, you wrote a very long and detailed description.

The problem is that you came up with a cross between Superman and the Predator.

Think about 2 things next time you design a unit:

1. What would this add to the game?

2. How balanced is this unit?

Those two things will help you create resonable and unique unit designs.

[Kishin]

Have you ever heard of constructive critisim? Try it and see how much farther you get with me. Overpowered this over powered that. Underpowered this, It's like your looking for something perfect... well your not going to find it. It's create a unit things that aren't going to be in the game, but things I'd like to see.

I tried to balance him out as well as I could with those abilites to try and prevent as much abuse as possiable. That's why I asked for suggestions, things that could make this character better. If you wanna talk about over powered units lets talk about the posion wisp. Six movement? Posions up to eight units? Can run away duck behind lines and be untouched? Units like this are already in the game.

I see it from a differant light about using the sf. He is beatable just as any unit. Did you think about paralize? I meantioned nothing of that obviously it effects him. What if you paralized a meditating Monk... Well that monk is just stuck like that now isn't he. Even if you did rescue him, the time it would take to get him out of that stance would take to long. No I wasn't trying to make an invicable unit, I'm trying to make a good unit. But everything is a copy or overpowered. ANY UNIT in the hands of an experienced player is an overpowered unit. I'm only trying to create something new, things that could add more possibilites to the game. Yet at every turn I'm met with contversy. This character is not set in stone, This is why I asked for suggestions. What do you think could make it better. And please stop taking this whole create a character thing so seriously, like thier ever going to put these characters in the first place. IT'S FOR FUN, yet your sapping all the fun out of this for me.

And it's not 18 damage, your forgetting to add another units armor into the situation. AND who attacks from the front unless they have to.

[Dragoen Link]

Make it recovery 2 and it would be acceptable :)

[legacy67]

Good you're angry.

Now that I have your attention. Your unit is too strong. The wisp is not that bad becuase it has a decent wait time and is easily killable in 2 hits. It requires the right moment and good placement to use the wisp effctively or you may just waste a unit. Now if you are playing as a grey (which I will respectfully assume for now as your name is not in gold) I can see how a wisp might be overwhelming.

As for constructive criticism. This is not kindergarden, we are not here to look out for your self esteem. Yes I may have been a little harsh with you, I am sorry , I just assumed that since you are old enough to use a computer and type with proper grammar that a little bit of grit would not bother you. In the future I will be more polite when reviewing your unit and avoid cheap jokes at your expense.

That being said, to say that we are being mean for "overpowered this overpowered that" is preposterous. If you create a unit that is over or underpowered, unoriginal, or just plain bad, we will tell you so. If you don't want people to review your unit, don't post in CAU.

In terms of your unit, you say that any unit in the hands of an experienced player is overpowered, well this unit is overpowered in the hands of an inexperienced unit. If you would like me to I will put up a diagram comparing it to other melee units but I would really rather not. "Did you think about paralize? I meantioned nothing of that obviously it effects him."Yeah, of course it effects him, it effects ALL units in the game. If it didn't effect him the respones to your unit would have been twice as negative. How about the fact that when he gets hurt, all you have to do is send him back into your territory and meditate? Long range units can't get him so he will have a plenty of time to heal.

Look, I am not trying to be mean, but this is not a balanced unit. If you take away the special abilities that make it unbalanced, all you have is yet another melee unit.

You want some constructive criticism? You obviously take the time to make good, detailed descriptions of your units. You seem to be intelligent enough that you could make a good unit. Take some time, think about how a unit would fit into the game and how some likely scenarios would play out, then post a new idea. Then you will probably be met with a better response.

[Kishin]

Check your pm's legacy I see no reason for a conversation like this to contunie on the forums and waste forum space.

So what do you say about this? If you have the time, How would you edit this character to make it more balanced? What would you change, and how? I'm looking at it, and I See many things that can be changed.

I've heard a few things so far.

Wait time: I believe that's fine, with no heavy armor weighing him down he should have little time to wait between attacks. Though for the sake of arguement and obtaining balance, perhaps since monks are patient and passive they need to wait two turns as Dragoen Link suggested.

Armor, Most monks in real life can take a real beaten as they are trained to do so. With his amount of hp + armor he could take a maximum of three hits without healing and a minimum of two. Though if it is to be dropped, I suppose reasonably it should be dropped to 8 or 10.

Meditation barrier, Now what if scouts, and golem abushers couldn't effect it yet a posion wisp could? That in itself would negate the meditation process? What if he lost the floating ability and a mud golem could do the same and disrupt the process? Would that be acceptable?

Counter Attack, I'm sorry but it's fine how it is. Generally people will attack from the sides in the first place, so 9 times out of ten he has a 30% chance to do 18 damage, MINUS armor caculations. Units that have no armor which generally have unblockable attacks (with the exception of the mudgolem) so those units will not have to worry about counter attacks when attacking up close. Only units that attack up close, meaning KNIGHTS, ASSASSINS, MUDGOLEMS, and WOLF RIDERS will only have to worry about the counter attacks. Knights will take at least 14 damage, an assassin a little more I believe 16, and a mudgolem will take the full effect. A wolf rider can avoid this all together. So counter attack is not changing, nor the damage delievered. I believe it's perfect how it is, based on it's usage and chance of usage.
And yes a Back blocking, a new element to the game he's not losing that either.

To high of an attack, I'm uncertain about how to deal with this situation. Considering his nature, Say 12 Damage attacking, but 18 countering? This way he can be combined with a scout to finish off light unarmored units, that way he has SOME offensive ability.

[Cardplayer89]

Sorry dude, but this ain't real life.

Dragons don't fly around in my neighborhood, and people don't conjure fire from the air. (Stole that from someone, can't remember who or where.)

Clerics have no armor, but have a recovery of 5.

10 recovery per turn? 10?! That's only 2 less than a Cleric, and that's per turn... in 5 turns, you could heal 50 damage, where a Cleric could only heal 24, and even then, he has to wait a minimum of 3 turns to heal again. Now, if this number were lowered, and all ranged attacks could hit, this wouldn't be so overpowered.

Another thing... don't take things personally around here. It's a unit. A design. Like Legacy said, if you can't stand the criticism, don't make a unit. I've had so many units shot down, it's not even funny, but you don't see me blowing up at people when they post negatively on my units.

[Kishin]

It's been tweaked. Perhaps now it's a little better.

[legacy67]

Even with these changes, I am still not sure as to the point of this unit.

Why would I want this unit in my formation? What purpose would it serve that is not already served by my other melee units, namely the knight? I don't really see a tactical reason for having this unit in my formation. I would much rather have a knight or even assasin. Especially when you take into accout the wait time.

If you take away the self healing, retaliation, and the 10% back blocking, what you have is a low powered melee unit. These abilities really do not change anything about the strategy of a melee unit, except maybe the idea of saving it until you have killed all the opponents non-melee units.

I have never liked giving healing abilities to any new unit, mostly because the cleric does a fine job of it on his own, and partially because it purely exists to prolong the game.

People here tend to like quantifiable ratings, so I will give one.

C+ : the unit is well explained, but does not add anything to overall gameplay.

Kishin, if you feel that you have a good response to these questions and comments, I would love to hear them, but this is my evaluation based on what I have read so far.

If anyone wants to see a good unit designed by Kishin, take a look at the Hero (formerly known as Captain). Link below.

http://www.tacticsarena.com/forum/showthread.php?p=513765#post513765

[Kishin]

I suppose so, guess I'm thinking of an all human team myself and trying to add some varaity to chose from. No way could this unit replace a knight, but I do think it would be a good addition. But as long as is balanced out and no longer overpowered or underpowered I guess it floats back to a matter of opinion.

[Kishin]

Eh... posted something ehre that wasnt' suppposed to be posted here.

[Kyir]

Good you're angry.

Now that I have your attention. Your unit is too strong. The wisp is not that bad becuase it has a decent wait time and is easily killable in 2 hits. It requires the right moment and good placement to use the wisp effctively or you may just waste a unit. Now if you are playing as a grey (which I will respectfully assume for now as your name is not in gold) I can see how a wisp might be overwhelming.

As for constructive criticism. This is not kindergarden, we are not here to look out for your self esteem. Yes I may have been a little harsh with you, I am sorry , I just assumed that since you are old enough to use a computer and type with proper grammar that a little bit of grit would not bother you. In the future I will be more polite when reviewing your unit and avoid cheap jokes at your expense.

That being said, to say that we are being mean for "overpowered this overpowered that" is preposterous. If you create a unit that is over or underpowered, unoriginal, or just plain bad, we will tell you so. If you don't want people to review your unit, don't post in CAU.

In terms of your unit, you say that any unit in the hands of an experienced player is overpowered, well this unit is overpowered in the hands of an inexperienced unit. If you would like me to I will put up a diagram comparing it to other melee units but I would really rather not. "Did you think about paralize? I meantioned nothing of that obviously it effects him."Yeah, of course it effects him, it effects ALL units in the game. If it didn't effect him the respones to your unit would have been twice as negative. How about the fact that when he gets hurt, all you have to do is send him back into your territory and meditate? Long range units can't get him so he will have a plenty of time to heal.

Look, I am not trying to be mean, but this is not a balanced unit. If you take away the special abilities that make it unbalanced, all you have is yet another melee unit.

You want some constructive criticism? You obviously take the time to make good, detailed descriptions of your units. You seem to be intelligent enough that you could make a good unit. Take some time, think about how a unit would fit into the game and how some likely scenarios would play out, then post a new idea. Then you will probably be met with a better response.


Right, complain again and we slap you ><

and NOTHING, has back blocking, ever, I have a quote somwhere about this thats really funny, but I cant find it