What I dont understand about Christianity

[doubledown]

First off I want to say I agree its a good thing that Christianity, and any religion that is able to, brings hope and some semblance of joy to many people. With that being said.....
I dont understand how there can be a large portion of minority and women christians. I just dont get it. Just about every modern (12th cent. and beyond) group that has tried to devalue these people has used the Christian religion and the bible as a basis for their actions.
Groups like the KKK and the Catholic Church point out individual scriptures that gives them authority to act in the way they do to incite violence or take away rights.

Can someone tell me why the weapon of my enemy is now a tool for my betterment?

[speaker4thedead]

wow beats me doubledown.
but i dont think the KKK acted on the bible it self

[doubledown]

if you ever seen the movie, or at least heard about it, The Birth of A Nation, there are tons of biblical references.
The KKK even called themselves "Protectors of Christian Values" in their heyday.

[speaker4thedead]

just remeberd bout my history lesson last year and the film bad boys 2. your right sorry bout that

[Medemia]

The hard thing is when people use what is right for actions that are wrong. People will quote "eye for an eye" but totally skip "love your neighbor as yourself" and "do unto others as you would want done to you." There is rationalization many times, saying "Oh, but they aren't fully human" or "They deserve punishment for their grevious sins." In the end though, they are wrong, they are sinning and they are misrepresenting the true Christain faith to the detriment of Christ and His church.
Mr. Nobel cannot be blamed for the use of dynamite, originally used for mining, by suicide bombers and terrorist for the killing of innocents. Likewise, Christianity has been used by terrorist, murderers, sinners and the like for all kinds of evil. It is not Christianity that is evil but the hearts of man.

[Mithrandir]

If an evil person or group of persons commits an evil action in the name of Jesus, you can't hold Jesus responsible unless his teachings permit the evil action. Anyone can misinterpret anything to mean whatever they want. I could take one verse which says (roughly) "Judas went and hung himself," combine it with another verse in a completely different part of the bible that says "go and do likewise" and conclude that the bible advocates everyone commit suicide. That would be a silly thing to believe of course but if I were to start a cult and have mass suicides in the name of Jesus Christ, you couldn't hold Christianity responsible for it.

Similarly, you can't hold 99% of pro-lifers responsible for occasional nuts like Eric Rudolph, who have bombed clinics or killed abortion doctors. Hold the nuts responsible for their actions but don't put the rest of us in the same category. I for one not only disagree with Eric Rudolph but personally try to persuade people that think similarly, for the sake of true justice and overall purity of my cause.

At least this is the way I look at your question.

[doubledown]

I see where you guys are coming from, man has interpreted the bible to suit their own ends, I get that. Its just, these ends are directly impacting minorities and then these same minorities jump on the band wagon....I just dont understand it. I guess its more a question on human behavior than on religion.

[Medemia]

I think the people who are part of a minority group (not the entire group jumps on. Not even all white people are on the Christianity wagon) that jump on Christianity understand that a relationship with God is bigger than the works of man under the misrepresented banner of Christianity. Because someone distorts the truth to their own needs does not mean that the truth is not true. So when minorities find the truth they can believe it despite the lies coming from others professing to live under the same truth. Jesus is bigger than any one group who claims His name and does evil. Jesus can break through it all and show himself to be "The Way, The Truth and the Life."

[Realist]

Just about every modern (12th cent. and beyond) group that has tried to devalue these people has used the Christian religion and the bible as a basis for their actions.

Ever heard of Islam? Or Nazism?

[Jeffery]

Ever heard of Islam? Or Nazism?
khmer rouge?

[doubledown]

Ever heard of Islam? Or Nazism?

Islam can be argued, and yeah as a matter of fact I have heard of Nazism. A movement helped greatly by Christian ideals. As a matter of fact, much of Nazism is based off of christianity.

As for the Khmer Rouge, that is more of discrimination for political gains than for anything else. If you were to go down this route then every political state that ever declared war against someone else would have to be mentioned. I'm more talking about non-political, non-governmental groups.

[KBHoleN1]

A movement helped greatly by Christian ideals. As a matter of fact, much of Nazism is based off of christianity.
See, that is much of the confusion. Nazism is not based off Crhistian ideals at all, it was based off Hitler's view of things, which he related to Christianity and used the Bible to support (falsely, of course). Just because someone says the Bible supports their view, doesn't mean it does, and it doesn't make the Bible or Christian ideals evil in any way.

The radicals who stretch and skew the teachings of Christ for their own purposes are not using the Word in the way it was meant. Radical extremists use Islamic ideals and the Quran (sp? I know there are different ways, and apologize if this spelling is incorrect) in much the same way, which is why many Americans have a hard time understanding Islam. I see you as just being on the other side of the fence, and can definitely relate to how you view another religion based off such extremists. I hope this makes sense, and I assure you that the groups of people you mentioned did not take the Bible for what it says, but used only certain parts for their benefit.

I think the reason Christianity is used for so many different movements, with such varied interests, is because the Bible and Christ's teachngs cover so many different aspects of life, and contain a great bit of detail about them. So it makes it easier to misquote since there are so many words to choose from, if that makes sense.

[doubledown]

Indeed it does make sense. I guess being as wide-spread as it is, Christianity is bound to pick up some nut-cases. And I think Med pretty much answered my original question for me. Thanks for enlightening this humble man.

[Jeffery]

Look to the smaller cults as well, such as David Koresh's little bunch in Waco a few years back.
Time and time again someone has used religion to base their beliefs around, and manipulated that religion to suit what they wanted to do.

As for Islam being argued, it is the exact same argument as Christianity. Depending how man interprets the holy writings makes all the difference in how minorities and women are treated.

[Realist]

Islam can be argued

Ok, you can't possibly be saying that Christianity has been worse to its women since the 12th century than Islam has? Do you know anything about the treatment of women in Muslim countries? FGM? Honor rapes? Saudi Arabia? The Taliban? Sure, Christianity hasn't been great for women, but it was Christian countries which produced the enlightenment which in turn lead to women's rights. Islam, with only a few exceptions, has had no such event.

and yeah as a matter of fact I have heard of Nazism. A movement helped greatly by Christian ideals. As a matter of fact, much of Nazism is based off of christianity.

Patently false, Nazism is directly contrary to Christianity. Nazism is all about race and earthly authoritism, not religion and Godly rule. The extent to which Nazism allied with Christianity is a cultural phenomeum, not a religous one--Christian minorities were executed and enslaved just as were non-Christian minorities.

If you were to go down this route then every political state that ever declared war against someone else would have to be mentioned. I'm more talking about non-political, non-governmental groups.

The KKK is a poltical group. The Catholic Church was a political group when it enforced its harshest policies against women.

[Jeffery]

Ok, if you want to witness first hand how badly warped some people can take the Bible to fit their views, visit StormFront (http://stormfront.org)
Unless you are fully capable of reading stuff that will upset you, do not go.

[Realist]

Ok, if you want to witness first hand how badly warped some people can take the Bible to fit their views, visit StormFront (http://stormfront.org)
Unless you are fully capable of reading stuff that will upset you, do not go.

Interesting thread on the topic on that forum (http://www.stormfront.org/forum/showthread.php?t=232095). Its the same thing I was talking about with Nazism--the argument for Christianity by many, though not all, white pride groups is that it is part of white culture, not that it is a universal truth.

[doubledown]

Ok, you can't possibly be saying that Christianity has been worse to its women since the 12th century than Islam has? Do you know anything about the treatment of women in Muslim countries? Islam, with only a few exceptions, has had no such event.

Hmm, I dont recall any Islamic nation burning women at the stake on a regular basis. While compared to western standards, Islamic women may seem to be treated very harshly....however if you ever go to an Arabic country and talk with the people, you will know that a majority of the women themselves would rather be treated that way rather than adopt the western attitude. And women had far more rights in 18th century Iran than most women had in 20th century America.


Patently false, Nazism is directly contrary to Christianity. Nazism is all about race and earthly authoritism, not religion and Godly rule.

I wasnt arguing about the "true meaning" of Christianity, just the terrible acts done under its name.

The KKK is a poltical group. The Catholic Church was a political group when it enforced its harshest policies against women.

non-political, non-governmental.....is there something I missed?

[Realist]

Hmm, I dont recall any Islamic nation burning women at the stake on a regular basis.

The stake isn't the popular method. I think beheadings are fairly common. The Taliban executed women fanatically, and there are more minor examples in pretty much every single Islamic country besides Turkey (which isn't really an Islamic country anyways). Have you been following the honor rape case in Pakistan? It got a bit of attention this year.

While compared to western standards, Islamic women may seem to be treated very harshly....however if you ever go to an Arabic country and talk with the people, you will know that a majority of the women themselves would rather be treated that way rather than adopt the western attitude.

First of all, this isn't universally true; second, if you went to a Christian country in the 12th century and talked with the people, you would know that a majority of those women themselves would rather be treated that way than adopt the modern attitude. That's also not universally true, but it is more true than your statement--because many women in Islamic countries know that alternatives exist, while medieval women knew nothing about such alternatives.

And women had far more rights in 18th century Iran than most women had in 20th century America.

I know virtually nothing about 18th century Iran, but I'm almost certain you're wrong about this. What is your evidence?

I wasnt arguing about the "true meaning" of Christianity, just the terrible acts done under its name.

I understand this, however, Nazism was not even under the name of Christianity; that's my point. Nazism was intentionally anti-Christian. I do not believe that Mein Kamph references the Bible very much; I've read a lot of Hiler's speeches, it is not Christianity that he talks about; it's his own view.

non-political, non-governmental.....is there something I missed?

Religious...but if you added that modifier, it would sort of destroy the point of your thread. Or you could just say non-non-Christian, that'd work. :cool: 100% of non-non-Christian oppression of women and minorities was instituted by Christians.

[Jeffery]

Actually, a simple stoning is the prefered method.

[doubledown]

You know Realist, I find you just contrary. Not in a good debate sort of way, just in a close-minded "it doesnt matter what anyone else says, I'm always right" kinda way. Theres no point in debating with you because you like to skew things to your point of view.

[Realist]

Actually, a simple stoning is the prefered method.

Really? I've never seen actual stats. This is pretty interesting. I know Iran hangs a lot of people.

[Realist]

Not in a good debate sort of way, just in a close-minded "it doesnt matter what anyone else says, I'm always right" kinda way. Theres no point in debating with you because you like to skew things to your point of view.

If you are incorrect, I will correct you; is that a problem? The assertion you made in your first post is very clearly incorrect, as I showed--using the facts. There's no skewing going on.

To be honest, I think you are a very intelligent person who has been somewhat soiled by an overly liberal education. I'm just trying to give a sense of perspective and objectivity.

[Jeffery]

Really? I've never seen actual stats. This is pretty interesting. I know Iran hangs a lot of people.
People yes, women not so much.

During the Taliban rule it was common practice to stone a woman out in the street for almost any reason.

[S_K_O_F]

If you are incorrect, I will correct you; is that a problem? The assertion you made in your first post is very clearly incorrect, as I showed--using the facts. There's no skewing going on.

To be honest, I think you are a very intelligent person who has been somewhat soiled by an overly liberal education. I'm just trying to give a sense of perspective and objectivity.

:eek:
Stop it! You are making me agree with you!