Demo clips.

[.Vash.]

Now this may of been suggested before but I cant find it, I think it would be cool to make demos(clips) on how to play the game. Alot More people understand better if they look at something then do it, rather then trying to do it themselfs, this may be hard to pull off, but I think it would help people, thus more people playing games.Like los there are some los shots you just cant show in a picture, thats why if you do it thru video more people would know los, aka stragies.

Just a suggestion, but I think it would help out.

[Forest_Archer]

Yeah, it would.

[Megabyte]

quit trying to help the rookies

In my day, we had to walk 15 miles in the freezing snow storms in order to just make a single move in TAO! Plus you had actuall have the cleric walk up to each unit and heal 'em. You'd be lucky to finish 1 match in a week.

Pfff, you youngin's are goin' soft!

[Volcom]

yer its better if you throw them in the deep end.....

Either learn to swim or drown

[zzzaacckk]

yer its better if you throw them in the deep end.....

Either learn to swim or drown

ugh that is so against everything I stand for as I ama lifeguard and swim teacher but I get what you mean... I just hate the exppression for obvious reasons.

[.Vash.]

quit trying to help the rookies

In my day, we had to walk 15 miles in the freezing snow storms in order to just make a single move in TAO! Plus you had actuall have the cleric walk up to each unit and heal 'em. You'd be lucky to finish 1 match in a week.

Pfff, you youngin's are goin' soft!

lol, lmao, you never know it could help vets and all around people.

[Moose]

Yeah, how about giving those some credit who "started" not knowing anything to TAO :p right at the beginning, we didn't need no faq to figure out what to do. XD

[.Vash.]

Yeah, how about giving those some credit who "started" not knowing anything to TAO :p right at the beginning, we didn't need no faq to figure out what to do. XD

True dat, true dat lol.

[Revenge]

Now this may of been suggested before but I cant find it, I think it would be cool to make demos(clips) on how to play the game. Alot More people understand better if they look at something then do it, rather then trying to do it themselfs, this may be hard to pull off, but I think it would help people, thus more people playing games.Like los there are some los shots you just cant show in a picture, thats why if you do it thru video more people would know los, aka stragies.

Just a suggestion, but I think it would help out.
If you want to make your own video, and post it in the newbie board to help them, you should do that.

[Megabyte]

actually, I did have ppl like Wolfman, Snarr, and RoR (the original!) beat me up repeatedly and kinda worked my way up from there.

[.Vash.]

If you want to make your own video, and post it in the newbie board to help them, you should do that.

I may try to do that, but its going to take some time to try to pull off.

[deleryn]

Actually, I think I remember Vie suggesting this already. Of course, he didn't actually make a clip...

Feel free to ask if you need a player to not be a jerk while you're making it.

[***Duo***]

quit trying to help the rookies

In my day, we had to walk 15 miles in the freezing snow storms in order to just make a single move in TAO! Plus you had actuall have the cleric walk up to each unit and heal 'em. You'd be lucky to finish 1 match in a week.

Pfff, you youngin's are goin' soft!

Rugrats - Awesomeness.

Aye, I learned to play from Snarr, Wolfy, ROR, and JT10. The only help I recieved. :S


-Duo

[Matt 34.5]

actually, I did have ppl like Wolfman, Snarr, and RoR (the original!) beat me up repeatedly and kinda worked my way up from there.
I had people like, Vash, wolfman, codeman, and bode, beat me up non-stop... and it seems Im becoming a worse gold then I use to be :rolleyes:

[wolf-boy]

Yea, that is a good idea..but I think bills is too lazy...Has anyone ever thought of this before.

[vintage]

I know this forum has been dead for a while but I wanted to add my two cents. I don't really care about making "videos" for helping the noobs. However, I think it'd be cool to have a demo recorder for tao. Instead of talking about great battles show everyone the battles. Is there anyone that wouldn't want to watch the matches from the big tournaments? Someone tell someone to code that :cool: .

[Wizzy`]

Yeah, even if that WERE to happen, who are you? And why would the admins listen?

[vintage]

They'd listen cuz they're the admins and it's a good idea. Also, the admins don't even have to listen, anyone who is a good programmer and reads my post could probably write a demo recorder/player themselves. Lots of people would use the demos to see good matches and to improve their game. It'd be better than the current forum where you talk about the cool match you just played. It'd be better than taking a screen shot at the begginning and the end of every game. Plus, how many good video games are out where you CAN'T record a demo?!?!

And while I'm already writing why not add who the f-ck is you wizzy??? I didn't say anything stupid or insulting. Aren't players allowed to make suggestions without being twelve, bottle or someone else with name recognition? If someone unknown says something shouldn't they be judged on the quality of their idea? Wouldn't you like to be able to make and watch demos?

[Jeffery]

1) It's called Windows Media Encoder- Live screen capture
2) You are asking for a game feature that would add EXTREME load to the servers. Something that can be done by the player themselves.
3) As for original suggestion, the n00bs don't read the How To guide, why would they watch movies about the same?

[EatMine]

Uhm, technically a "game recorder" should not be implemented as a live screen capture, for the obvious reasons you said already ...
Instead the moves of the game should be logged (pretty small text file), then this text file would be loaded into the flash engine (user side) and replayed there ...

About the "demo movies" for new players: i think it is pretty easy to figure out how to move/attack and such movies could not cover strategy, which can only be learned by playing ... so, yeah, not a very important feature!

[Hellblazer]

I guess it couldn't hurt to have demo clips, but I think people can learn the ropes just fine. I mean, we all did.

[Jeffery]

The first point was what you can use to record the game now. Look it up on the inetrnet, download, install, record. There is no need for the game to do anything in order for a game to be recorded.

As forrecording the moves chess style notation, the variance of opening moves, directions, move/attack/attack/move/wait would make the feature hard to implement to get a game replay.
It's not something that you should ever expect on TAO, no matter how good/bad of an idea it may seem.

[EatMine]

Yeah, true, and sad, because it would really be a nice feature ...

I don't think that the use of current capture programs is gonna work: if a game lasts an hour, who has web space to upload a 300MB movie?

[Jeffery]

Actually, it isnt that large of a file depending on the settings you set for it. Resolution, frames per second, and file type all raises/lowers the space taken. It also depends on how much of the screen you show.
For an "important" game you want others to see, it is not that hard to do.

60 minutes would be around 25 megs on the setting I used.

[vintage]

Uhm, technically a "game recorder" should not be implemented as a live screen capture, for the obvious reasons you said already ...
Instead the moves of the game should be logged (pretty small text file), then this text file would be loaded into the flash engine (user side) and replayed there

Yes! This is exactly what I was thinking. The code for this would not be very complicated, simply store the names of each player their starting setup and then the beggining and ending coordinates of each action. There wouldn't be THAT much extra load to the server in creating a text file, think about any of the chess enginees that do it.

Now, I agree with jeffrey that you could just have players use windows media encoder but then you would have rather large files for each match (yes I still count 25 megs as large in comparison to a 2k text file). Also, players don't make these recordings now but if there was a "start recording demo" button I bet they would. Now, I'm newer to this game so I don't know if this is really a valid point but demo recorders could be written to use encryption when making/replaying demos and thus there would never be any doubt as to the authenticity of a demo (good for tournaments??).

Anyway, I still think this would be an awesome addition to tao if someone was interested enough to make it. Now, I'm not sure if this has been said before, prolly has, but what about allowing spectators to watch matches? That would be another way to accomplish a lot of the same goals as the demo recorder.

[Jeffery]

You forgot a few steps that would need recorded.

1) Starting setup including each unit and where it was.
2) Which player was selected as "first"
3) Unit selected to move/attack
4) Move or attack made
5) The attack or the move made after move 4
During the recording of the attack, you would have to detail WHERE the attack ws made, as well as ALL units affected by the attack.
6) Which direction the unit was facing at the end of it's turn.

You would also have to keep a running track of all units health during every move, so as to display during playback.

And again, this is something that isn;t going to be done. It isn;t that important to actual gameplay, and I highly doubt Seed will even put it on a list of things to consider, especially since it has been a year since he even put ANYTHING into the game.

[vintage]

You forgot a few steps that would need recorded.

1) Starting setup including each unit and where it was.
2) Which player was selected as "first"
3) Unit selected to move/attack
4) Move or attack made
5) The attack or the move made after move 4
During the recording of the attack, you would have to detail WHERE the attack ws made, as well as ALL units affected by the attack.
6) Which direction the unit was facing at the end of it's turn.

You would also have to keep a running track of all units health during every move, so as to display during playback.

OK OK... I admit that I haven't sat down and thought through every variable that would be needed however I don't think that you necessarily need all the ones that you listed. Certainly you would need each players name, (1), (2), then I think you could combine (3)-(6) into type of action be it move attack or turn, beggining coords, ending coords and whether or not blocks occured.
With this information the game could discern the rest of the information itself.

As for seed caring about the demo recorder... why do we need seed? I'm fairly confident that any good programmer could write this themselves as third party software. I'm not saying it would be easy to do, certainly implementing it directly into the game would be the easiest way, but if someone really wanted it then they've gotta do what they've gotta do.

Anyway, thanks for the discussion jeff, the idea has been on my mind for a few months now. Maybe when I have lots of free time I'll look back into this myself.

And since this is probably going to be my last post in this thread i feel i should end it with: wizzy is cowardly pos. :cool:

[vintage]

and I highly doubt Seed will even put it on a list of things to consider

Ooo Ooo Ooo
Not saying your wrong jeff but check out suggestions 1 and 2:
http://www.tacticsarena.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=3154

[Jeffery]

Except that to make ANY program that interacts with the game violates the TOS of the site.
There is one, and only one, person allowed to code for the game.

It's called Reality, and you really should look into it. Dreaming about possabilities of what MIGHT be possible is nothing compared to what IS possible.

And a third party hack that takes the game info like that would result in the maker being banned on TAO.

[Jeffery]

Ooo Ooo Ooo
Not saying your wrong jeff but check out suggestions 1 and 2:
http://www.tacticsarena.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=3154
That is a list made by a mod of things that have been suggested. Seed has nothing to do with that list.

If anything, being on that list makes it even more unlikely to ever happen.

[vintage]

Well you're a buzz kill in lots of ways. That's too bad about the things on that list being unlikely to happen. Even though several of the things on that list did happen. But whatever.

As for the third party version of the demo player... it may in fact violate the TOS, I never thought of that. However, third party software means that you are not coding FOR THE GAME. You are coding something completely your own that simply asks the web browser for a little information. Of course you could ban the creater if you didn't like the program but how would you ban someone if you didn't know who wrote it? Or more likely the creater will divulge who they are and after banning them they will just resubscribe with a different name. The loop holes seem pretty big here.

[Jeffery]

And you just so hapopen to be a third party software creator wiling to hack a .swf file in order to retrieve the infomration needed to make and release the software you are describing, all work of which would be for free?

The loopholes are not big because they simply don;t exist. It's not being a buzzkill, it;s called being aware of reality.

[vintage]

As a matter of fact jeff I do happen to be a software creator but am not necessarily sure that I CAN hack a .swf file in order to make the demo recorder. However, if I could then I certainly would be willing to do it for free since I would get lots of enjoyment from it (payment enough).

Also. if someone DID make the demo recorder and then got banned for making a good, useful, wanted compliment to the game then that would severely hurt the reputation of all the higher ups in tao. As it is I believe there are a number of paying customers dissatisfied with the way they are treated. In reality everything does eventually boil down to money and when you piss off the people paying you, you learn just how right the customer always is.

[Jeffery]

Yeah, because people demanding things of Bills in the past have always worked when they threaten to be a disgruntled customer.

Again, reality is more important than a delusion you seem to be in.

[vintage]

I'm not threatening, nor do I plan on being disgruntled. I simply don't agree with your version of reality. I'm simply saying that IF someone made a demo recorder and was then punished for making something that was not only wanted but useful that would just look bad for everyone involved.

[Jeffery]

And your thinking that Bills cares what you think is delusional.

[vintage]

I don't care what bills thinks. My original post just asked for a demo recorder / player cause I thought it'd be cool. Then we had a small debate on whether or not it was feasible to make. Then you started calling me dillusional. Then I started calling you a buzz kill. Now to be honest I don't really know where were at... what were you trying to say in that last post???

[Jeffery]

Ahhh.
So the owner of the game is inconsequantial to your thinking.

Funny, you're much the same to his.

[vintage]

I thought seed made and owned the game and bills owned the right to run the game on his servers... is this not right??

And why not continue having an intellectual debate instead of flaming me? If you want to stick with your "it will never happen" and "seed and bills dont care about you" statements then fine, were at an impass and I'll stop posting on this thread. But I think it could happen, in reality, and that bills and seed should care about me, and you, and even wizzy cuz they're paid to.

[Jeffery]

And I stand by the fact that you're delusional.

[EatMine]

vintage, Jeffery is not flaming you. It's just that what you say about Bills and customers and stuff, was already said a million times in the last two years, and obviously it is delusional to think this would change ...

Jeffery, i have a question:
Except that to make ANY program that interacts with the game violates the TOS of the site.
And a third party hack that takes the game info like that would result in the maker being banned on TAO.To make a "game logger" a programmer would not have to hack the flash-file: he could get the setup and move/attack information out of the network traffic ... since this information must obviously be communicated between the two players ...
Do you think a prog like this would still violate TAO TOS?
And if yes, doesn't that mean that little JS-progs like the "damage chart"-ones violate the terms of service too?

[Jeffery]

Yep and yep.

Any kind of derivative work based on, about, or taking information from TAO violates the TOS.

[EatMine]

Thanks!
Guess i have to edit my post in the damage-chart-thread then ...

[vintage]

It's just that what you say about Bills and customers and stuff, was already said a million times in the last two years, and obviously it is delusional to think this would change ...

Fine, I can accept that that stuff will not change. However, a demo recorder would be nice, can't argue with that. It also would not take much work on the part of seed or bills or whoever would do the coding, or it would at least not take any more work than any of the other features that they may wish to add. And it COULD be done by someone else even though that would violate the TOS.

So, I have a new suggestion that hopefully hasn't been mentioned and vetod in the last 2 years. Ask bills or seed or whoever to allow third party software, that does not need to hack the game, to go through a review board, or something to that effect, which could give it the thumbs up to be distributed. Then you could have many many people making valueable contributions to tao, rather than just bills and/or seed. They would still have the final say in all matters, of course, but production would not be bottle-necked by their lack of free time, energy and initiative.

[Jeffery]

It has been suggested, and completely ignored. Bills and Seed have no interest in allowing others to make contributions to TAO.
The few times Seed has tried that, things he did not like happened. Since he has been very closed to outside help of any kind.

Bills is happy with the game as it is, as it makes him plenty of money at a very low attention rate. If the game became a lot more popular, a lot more work would be needed.

As it is he can handle it with a smaller cost for a larger profit.