Ranger

[Walrus]

"In the early days when men were still exploring and discovering the world, there were many rangers. These women were hermits who secluded themselves from human society. Whilst not directly hostile, they often set traps and waylaid men who strayed too close to their lodges. When men were sent to kill them, these rangers had already fled elsewhere, such was their agility and speed."

Ranger

Life: 36
Armor: 5
Power: 12
Blocking: 0
Movement: 4
Recovery: 0
Attack Pattern: Knight

Special: Agility -
OLD VERSION-The Ranger has such agility that she is capable of dodging enemy attacks. Upon being attacked from the front or sides, she has a 60% chance to step onto an adjacent square, the result usually being that the attack will miss (though with pyromancers and the likes it is possible that she will still be hit). If no adjacent squares are available, the ranger canot dodge. If there is more than 1 possible square to move to, it will be chosen at random. Focus effects cannot be dodged.
NEW VERSION:The Ranger has such agility that she is capable of dodging enemy attacks. Upon being attacked from the front or the sides, she has a chance of stepping onto an adjacent square, hence (usually) avoiding the attack (although pyros and the likes can still potentially hit her, even if she moves). The chance to dodge is directly related to how many empty squares there are adjacent to the Ranger. She has a 20% chance to dodge per square. This means that if she is fully surrounded, the Ranger cannot dodge, if there is only 1 empty square adjacent to her she has a 20% chance, with 2 squares this is a 40% chance etc.
Under consideration: You are able to choose which square she moves to with a successful dodge?

Note: If the Ranger dodges a ranged attack such as from the Scout, this projectile will continue until it reaches its maximum range, following the same line. For example:


S - - - -
- - R - -
- - - - K

If the Scout (S) attacks the Ranger (R) and the Ranger dodges the attack, the LOS rules will determine that the Scouts shot will then go on and hit the Knight (K). Due to the Knight not seeing this attack coming, he will only have half of his regular blocking against this.

[Hellblazer]

Yeah, I think the dodge move should be 1 turn of recovery. Nice job with this one, though. It's simple, very cool, and original.

[Walrus]

accomplishing simplicity and originality is one of my goals in CAU

[Executioner]

Was about to post about saying i thought the unit was underpowered then i realised the 0 turn recovery thing. I absolutely think that dodging should NOT cause a 1 turn recovery, if so this unit would be useless in my opinion, its good at attacking quickly, dodging is a natural part of the units descrition. DONT MAKE THE DODGE USE A TURN RECOVERY!!!!! As it is i really like the unit though. Great job as always walrus.

Exe

[Walrus]

the dodging causing recovery is still under consideration, though i am inclined to agree with executioner for now. more feedback is as always, appreciated, though since im so hated by most of CAU nowadays it wont matter :)

[Kyir]

accomplishing simplicity and originality is one of my goals in CAU

that makes 2 of us

[New Paradigm]

i really like this unit.like the others sed its simple but effectiv, so nice job.
other thing is i feel sry for walrus he makes rly gud units and comments on other ppls but no1 ever posts on his :(

[Walrus]

the last thing i want is pity.
sure comments on my units would make a nice change but im not the type to go out of my way or beg for people to comment. if they dont want to fine. i will keep posting units regardless, and new CAUers will likely read them.

nice thought though, have a rep.

[New Paradigm]

lol thx :p
ill have to reply 2 ure units more often :D

[Walrus]

well it put you back up to a green box at least.

[Dynamix]

pretty good its balanced cause of the low health, and the movements good,so nice unit keepem comin

[Forest_Archer]

I think it's weak and rather underpowewred, myself. What's the advantage of the dodging? I mean it's cool and all, but how would it help the Ranger?

[Dynamix]

I think it's weak and rather underpowewred, myself. What's the advantage of the dodging? I mean it's cool and all, but how would it help the Ranger?
it dodges the attack so it doesnt get hurt

[Forest_Archer]

Yeah.. but units like the Knight also 'dodge'/block attacks. What I mean is what's so good about the move-to-an-adjacent-space thing?

[Dynamix]

you never know it could help or screw you over thats y its tactical

[Forest_Archer]

Not really, because there's only a 60% chance that it would move to a random square. So that's why it's tactical.

[Dynamix]

Not really, because there's only a 60% chance that it would move to a random square. So that's why it's tactical.

so its tactical no matter what ya do.

[Forest_Archer]

Hah! Lol! You can't sense sarcasm, can you?

[Dynamix]

not to well i guess

[legacy67]

First off, I am not sure what is so original about dodge/evade as many people have done it. I am also not sure as to the value of a unit with 36 hp and only 12 damage and a knight attack pattern.

I would rather have an Assasin.

My 2cents

[Forest_Archer]

Exactly my feelings, 67.

[Duffman]

Dynam - Having a % change of something happening is the exact opposite of it being tactical. Luck != Tactics.

So far as originality going I don't think it's bad at all. The 0 recovery time definitely makes it unique. It's an endgame unit where speed comes into it own and being able to sneak down their HP and retreating is useful. At the same time it's realtively useless at... startgame... as it isn't able to deliver high potency in a short period of time. Basically it has hit and run tactics.

I think the HP is perfect. You want it low. This is where the Assassin fails. She is fast but even she has to wait one turn before she can run away, and thats where she tends to die. This unit can run in, attack, oppoenents turn, attack and retreat again. Although it takes 2 turns it can deliver 24 damage and if done wisely (no opponent units able to attack her for the 1 turn she is there) she comes out unscaved.

The moving to side means you can't crowd units around her to protect her so she always has to run away rather than hide (You can run but you can't hide ^_^). So hopefully you can force your opponent to waste turns keeping her running away.That said,

Changes i'd like to see are:

The % chance of doding an attack be realtive to how many squares she can dodge to. This really makes it more imperative to keep her on her own and away from other team units.

Moreover i'd like to see that if she evades an ranged attack that the attack will continue on. Just to really make her useless and a blocking unit unlike the assassin. Also it adds a sort of ... try to attack her from a certain angle so if she dodges you can still hit a unit. As well with that you could make it if a shot goes through her the unit behind her has no chance of blocking it. Sort of a couldnt' see it coming.

The only thing i'm not sure about is that it has 60% chance from the front AND from the side. So it's kinda useless moveing around to attack her from the side. not sure if you should keep this or get rid of it. Can you justify why it's like that for me?

^_^

[Walrus]

the unit has 2 main "Features"

the first is, as has been discussed, the dodging. this is meant to encourage the ranger being seperate from other units, as it operates best when on its own. yes, the dodging can be a blessing or a curse depending on how the unit moves, but in the same way, if you have a knight and a scout attacking an enemy knight, there are situations where if the knight blocks the weaker scout attack then your knight will be able to get a back hit on it (i wont explain in further detail, im sure most of you know the kind of situation im getting at) in general, moving 1 space to the side will allow the ranger an increased scope of attack if she wishes to attack the unit in return. but another thing is that with melee units at least, it will also force the enemy to move again before hitting her, causing a full recovery. finally regarding the dodging, it is 60% from both the front and sides, meaning it is hard to get any attack on her that isnt from behind.
duff, the reason it is like this is because logically if a unit that is supposed to be very quick and agile is attacked from the side, chances are it will have already seen this attack coming just as easily as if the enemy was right in front. im also tempted to up the dodging to 70%. dodging also works against unblockable attacks, since it isnt blocking.

the 2nd feature which nobody really seems to have noticed is that she has no recovery whatsoever. this presents quite a few tactical opportunities regarding hit and run tactics. she is extremely mobile, which means that in 1 on 1 encounters, she should pretty much always come out on top. is this overpowered? i dont think so because she is very vulnerable against multiple units. this means that the ranger is very strong in end game potentially, but is also capable of performing hit n run attacks thanks to having no recovery. ie move in, attack, attack again, move out.

and duff, i quite like your idea regarding the blocking. perhaphs if i made it 20% dodge chance per square....yes, i think i will add that.

regarding the scout shots and similar, that seems like a fairly logical idea that would go along with the unit anyway ^^

[Duffman]

Lol Wally you just repeated everything I said ^_^

The 0 recovery time definitely makes it unique.
the 2nd feature which nobody really seems to have noticed is that she has no recovery whatsoever


Basically it has hit and run tactics.
this presents quite a few tactical opportunities regarding hit and run tactics


It's an endgame unit
this means that the ranger is very strong in end game potentially


This unit can run in, attack, oppoenents turn, attack and retreat again.
ie move in, attack, attack again, move out.


Maybe you didn't read that because i didn't say I liked the unit. :P

I like the unit.


p.s. Logically i can see how having 60% on both front and side works but i'm not sure how it would play out. It might just make her too hard to hit. I'd like to try it.

Also 20 a square means when she is on her own thats 80% dodging. Eeeeep. For a unit that even dodges unblockable attacks 80% dodging from front and side at endgame is huge. I think it needs to be scaled down a bit. 15% each square?.

[Walrus]

i was tired. your post was the most recent one so i skimmed over it ^^

i already changed the dodging to 20% per empty tile adjacent to the ranger (like what you suggested).

[Duffman]

Rawr don't post while i'm still editing :P

[legacy67]

I kind of like the new dodgeing system, minus the reduced blocking because the unit can't see it coming. I doubt that a knight would see an arrow coming from the side and a bit behind but he can still get blocks in that quadarant. Not to mention the surprise of an arrow coming from a trick shot. I would sometimes purposely take shots at the Ranger to get a reduced blocking shot at a unit behind it in LOS.

[Walrus]

duff, remember that when she is in melee with another unit, its only ever possible that there are 3 empty squares. she can only get the full 80% against ranged attacks, and considering the low life and armor, this being only 10% more than an assassin from the front, i dont think itd be that bad.

legacy, pretty much why i added it :)

[Forest_Archer]

This unit would either be:

• Annoying

or

• Too weak to use effectively.

.... I just can't decide.

[Walrus]

well i dont think it would be too weak ;)

[Duffman]

I kind of like the new blocking system, minus the reduced blocking because the unit can't see it coming. I doubt that a knight would see an arrow coming from the side and a bit behind but he can still get blocks in that quadarant. Not to mention the surprise of an arrow coming from a trick shot. I would sometimes purposely take shots at the Ranger to get a reduced blocking shot at a unit behind it in LOS.
Of course who wouldn't. It adds a negative aspect to the unit which if the oppoent tactfully maneouvers can manipulate. Plus it's very doubtful a good player would giv eyou the chance as the unit would stick to the back for most of the game and only come out when there are less threatening units. It would also stay far away from it's own units.

hmmm does it reduce blocking on wards?

[Forest_Archer]

Think of this critter if it had +30 armor. Talk about
ANNOYING

[Duffman]

FA, I really doing think your looking at this unit in a fair way. You are saying it's either overpowered or underpowered you just can't work out which. You aren't giving any reasoning apart from the 30 armour thing. It comes across as if you do have a bias against Walrus.

Not very fitting for someone who was a CAU judge? (Sorry if i'm wrong here)

[Sage Thief]

Fudd!!:d

[Wizzy`]

Sage!! :d

[Walrus]

matt damon!

[Forest_Archer]

Okay, Duffy. My bad.

Here's some constructive critisism-

Walrus don't you think that it would be cool that as the Ranger is attacked and if it dodges it, the attack slows down and it can choose a space to dodge to?

The above would just happen if the dodging took place.

Can the Ranger avoid the dmw, dt, pyro, and LW attack? You know, you can't block them, but dodging might be a different story.

[Duffman]

Whether it can block dmw, dragon attack depends on if you can choose which space to dodge to. The Ranger will dodge unblockable attacks but seeing as pyro, dmw attack effect more than on square you might end up dodging into another tile being hit.

We really need more answers from Wally on the actually dodging.

If you are dodging an LOS attack will you be hit if you dodge into the attack (In the direction the arrow is coming at you)?

Will the Ranger dodge if she is barriered?

[Walrus]

ok, regarding dodging:


currently, the idea of choosing which space to move to is "under consideration". im still trying to decide whether it should or not, but im currently leaning towards that you shouldnt choose which space to move to. this is simply because it would allow area of effect attacks to be dodged too easily.
which brings me onto my 2nd point, i thought i covered it in the original post, but yes, dodging does apply to unblockable attacks. however, with area of effect attacks, there is still a chance that she will still be within the attack shape even after dodging.

simply put, i think the unit would become quite imbalanced if you could choose which square to move to with a dodge.

as for the LOS, i cant see why the arrow shouldnt hit her, so yes she will still be hit.

and as for the barrier, that would prevent dodging.