intermediet vs durn tootin good

[TheGuy]

What's the difference? Is it entirely a matter of planning more moves (both your own and your opponents) in advance? At this point, let's assume all stupid mistakes like miscounting tiles have been eliminated, target hierarchies and unit exchange values are established, etc.

Does this game boil down entirely to seeing the future?

[banditto]

Play me, and you'll see the difference.

The difference between good and great is that a great player, knows what a good player will do move for move, so he is able to get on the offensive first, and win the more valuable units.

Like in chess, would you rather end up with a queen at the end, or 2 pawns? 90% of the time i'd take that queen, wouldn't you?

[zspitfire04]

That was extremely well-put, Honestly that improved my game 10x better Thanks!

[Lucky13]

Play me, and you'll see the difference.

The difference between good and great is that a great player, knows what a good player will do move for move, so he is able to get on the offensive first, and win the more valuable units.

Like in chess, would you rather end up with a queen at the end, or 2 pawns? 90% of the time i'd take that queen, wouldn't you? Yea, that was well put and simple, so everyone can understand. But do you have any suggestions on mastering that? (what I would refer to as the challenging part)

[Dajae]

Yea, that was well put and simple, so everyone can understand. But do you have any suggestions on mastering that? (what I would refer to as the challenging part)

A good way to get to that "mastering" stage, is to imagine yourself as your opponent. Seeing the board the way it was, i.e; unit placement and such.. Try to imagine how you'd attack your own formation.

Then, basically, using your units, either take defensive measures, or take offensive measures. After all, your best defense is often a strong offense.

For example, imagine yourself as the opponent (This case it is a gold vs. gold Turtle game). Now, you can see that they would probably attack your Cleric with some nice LOS. Since you know that they will probably do that, move a Scout or something to that spot, and attack a unit, or Furgon that area, or something along those lines.

This is a very basic guide to this idea, but hey, try it and see how it works for you.

- Daj

[TheGuy]

There are different roads to looking ahead. Some win by forcing an opponent's moves several turns down. Some win by blocking an opponent's moves.

You guys seems to basically confirm my suspicion that the one single difference between good and great is looking further down the road. Is there anything else that one can work on to get best? Post your (asinine?) advice or post your theories on moving past flawless basics play.

[Dajae]

Don't ask questions like that, it makes you seem uber-nub.

Just play, play, and play.

Thats the ONLY way you'll get better. There is no "one-step" solution to becoming the best.

Let this thread die, its just getting... rather pointless.

You have all the information you need, just work off that, and make your own strategies.

- Daj

[TheGuy]

You've got to be fucking kidding me... :huh:

[Dajae]

You've got to be fucking kidding me... :huh:

Watch your damn language. I WILL have you banned.

- Daj

EDIT: Hugh, if your reading this, please just close this thread.

[Megabyte]

Its just an ability to take what everyone knows about the game and combine the knowledge with an ability to adapt its use to each match.

Refining how you react to each attack, knowing intuitively each LOS hit, the damage it would take to kill a unit, the combination of attack, turn planning, reactionary planning.

There's not necessarily a clear way to define a veteran player, its just a certain level of familiarity combined with a capability to make use of it. Some people can play the game for years,and not be able to make use of what they learned, and never become skilled. Others can pick it up in a few months.

[TheGuy]

Watch your damn language. I WILL have you banned.

- Daj

EDIT: Hugh, if your reading this, please just close this thread.

The whole "don't ask questions on how to get better because it "maks u look lke a n00b lolololo" sort of pissed me off. Also, I'm not aware that you are a mod?

Let's please move on. I'd like to hear from real veterans on what they think makes a good player.

[Dajae]

The whole "don't ask questions on how to get better because it "maks u look lke a n00b lolololo" sort of pissed me off. Also, I'm not aware that you are a mod?

Let's please move on. I'd like to hear from real veterans on what they think makes a good player.

Funny, I don't remember using the term "lolololo". I don't care if it pissed you off. I never said I was a mod, did I?

Real veterans will just tell you the same thing as Megabyte said.

- Daj

[KBHoleN1]

The whole "don't ask questions on how to get better because it "maks u look lke a n00b lolololo" sort of pissed me off. Also, I'm not aware that you are a mod?

Let's please move on. I'd like to hear from real veterans on what they think makes a good player.
You have already been briefed by some real veterans. Asking how to get better shows you really have no idea. Practice makes perfect isn't just a saying. No one can tell you how to play better than good, they can train you in a style of play, teach you about units, and give you a good form, but after that you have to know what moves to make.

Turn planning is what this game is all about, knowing what you and your opponent will do for the next move, the move after that, and as long as possible. Best way to do this: before you make a move, think about what your opponent can do after that - can he damage a valuable unit, can he retreat a damaged unit, can he paralyze all of your units? The trick is to evaluate your opponent's best move, and plan to counter it. If you know his best move, you know what to do, at least for the moment. If he makes it, plan your next move before you counter. Always think several moves ahead so you have a game plan. I NEVER, EVER use my current turn to decide on a move. I decide on my next move, and the move after that, because I already know what I'm doing that turn.

If your opponent makes the move you think he will, go with your plan. If he makes a better move that you didn't see, come up with a plan quickly, and improve on your prediction next time. If he makes a worse move than you predicted, capitalize, know how you can hurt him: i.e. - if he heals, I can hit his pyro, if he doesn't heal I kill the cleric, if he freezes me I advance my knight, etc ... If you happen to see a move that you can't counter - pray, pray hard that he doesn't see it :p

It's all a game of cat and mouse. Someone can tell you how to play a game, but they can't play it for you. The best didn't become the best when someone told them something, they became the best when they got out there and learned to kick some ass.

You seem awfully cocky considering you are asking for help. You have insulted respected forum members, who are damn good players I might add, and refused to listen to the answers you didn't want. Thats's not the way this forum works, you respect others, and they will respect and help you.

[TheGuy]

Megabyte's post came up before I refreshed my screen... and I'm figuring it's the be all end all.

I'm assuming there are good and very good players that visit these forums. I've found this game and like it and have played myself towards over a 1200..

I've played a lot and am wondering what the next step is. I already plan ahead... what now??

My theory is it's just: plan ahead more-- does anyone have anything else to add on there?

By their own confession-- even if you suck-- posting here is helping people.

If I missed a thread on SPECIFICS at "high" skill levels, then I deserve the abuse, otherwise, let's chit chat.

[TheGuy]

Ok whoa!, I came off on some hostile foot I'm not intending. :wacko: The last post was posted before I finished my own; I think my specific questions were a bit lost in the shuffle. At any rate, MY question was answered and I hope and it seems some others' were. Holy cow. :confused:

[KBHoleN1]

Megabyte's post came up before I refreshed my screen... and I'm figuring it's the be all end all.

I'm assuming there are good and very good players that visit these forums. I've found this game and like it and have played myself towards over a 1200..

I've played a lot and am wondering what the next step is. I already plan ahead... what now??

My theory is it's just: plan ahead more-- does anyone have anything else to add on there?

By their own confession-- even if you suck-- posting here is helping people.

If I missed a thread on SPECIFICS at "high" skill levels, then I deserve the abuse, otherwise, let's chit chat.
EDIT - he finally saw my post.

I said several times, the only way to get better is to play. There is no golden key, there is no secret to life, all you need to know is in the instructions and unit details, which you said you already know. There are lots of strategy guides on these forums, several are stickied in this very subforum. They tell you how to play, but you won't get better with them unless you actually try. Past that, practice, practice, practice.

[Dajae]

You have already been briefed by some real veterans. Asking how to get better shows you really have no idea. Practice makes perfect isn't just a saying. No one can tell you how to play better than good, they can train you in a style of play, teach you about units, and give you a good form, but after that you have to know what moves to make.

Turn planning is what this game is all about, knowing what you and your opponent will do for the next move, the move after that, and as long as possible. Best way to do this: before you make a move, think about what your opponent can do after that - can he damage a valuable unit, can he retreat a damaged unit, can he paralyze all of your units? The trick is to evaluate your opponent's best move, and plan to counter it. If you know his best move, you know what to do, at least for the moment. If he makes it, plan your next move before you counter. Always think several moves ahead so you have a game plan. I NEVER, EVER use my current turn to decide on a move. I decide on my next move, and the move after that, because I already know what I'm doing that turn.

If your opponent makes the move you think he will, go with your plan. If he makes a better move that you didn't see, come up with a plan quickly, and improve on your prediction next time. If he makes a worse move than you predicted, capitalize, know how you can hurt him: i.e. - if he heals, I can hit his pyro, if he doesn't heal I kill the cleric, if he freezes me I advance my knight, etc ... If you happen to see a move that you can't counter - pray, pray hard that he doesn't see it :p

It's all a game of cat and mouse. Someone can tell you how to play a game, but they can't play it for you. The best didn't become the best when someone told them something, they became the best when they got out there and learned to kick some ass.

You seem awfully cocky considering you are asking for help. You have insulted respected forum members, who are damn good players I might add, and refused to listen to the answers you didn't want. Thats's not the way this forum works, you respect others, and they will respect and help you.

Basically like what I just said, just a more advanced and technical view.

I think the basic theme of this thread is, "Practice practice practice!". :)

- Daj

[Megabyte]

Megabyte's post came up before I refreshed my screen... and I'm figuring it's the be all end all.

I'm assuming there are good and very good players that visit these forums. I've found this game and like it and have played myself towards over a 1200..

I've played a lot and am wondering what the next step is. I already plan ahead... what now??

My theory is it's just: plan ahead more-- does anyone have anything else to add on there?

By their own confession-- even if you suck-- posting here is helping people.

If I missed a thread on SPECIFICS at "high" skill levels, then I deserve the abuse, otherwise, let's chit chat.

Firstly, stop thinking there's something specific you need to work on to tune your TAO skills, there isn't.

Different players set different priorities, and while lots of chest thumping happens, nobody's ideas necessarily have more merit than any others. All of my suggestions just reflect my own ideas on what it takes to play here. Some would agree, other's call me a fool and we usually rant back and forth at each other.

That being said, if you're only interested in giving yourself a specific goal to work towards, you might want to adjust that. Most players who play TAO for such reasons find their stay here short, as there's a real limit to what you can work towards.

The lasting players will all come at your with the same reason if you ask why they're here, for the love of the game.

If you do have a desire to fix up your skills some more and want something more specific though, I reccomend gaining a mastery of the different strategies (different turtle styles, rushes, spreads, bowls, bombs, etc). Its easy to plan ahead using the same formation, but have about 20 different ones, or 50? All with different unit compositions and starting setups. Not so easy anymore ;)