The Ant-Rush is here.

[Match Strike]

http://www.tacticsarena.com/unitdetails/beast/furgon.html
Funny, it's been here all along. It just happens to have recieved a lot of attention lately.

And no, it's not the Anti-Rush because of it's newfangled gizmo. We were just too stupid to recognize it for what it is. Shame.

[Cliche]

http://www.tacticsarena.com/unitdetails/beast/furgon.html
Funny, it's been here all along. It just happens to have recieved a lot of attention lately.

And no, it's not the Anti-Rush because of it's newfangled gizmo. We were just too stupid to recognize it for what it is. Shame.

Yes...a shame. Kind of a random thread though, isn't it?

[Wayfaerer]

Furgon's don't help combat rushes at all! Well they do after the fire's been extinguished, but then it's just about preference.

[22woger22]

What the HELL is an ant-rush (title)?

[Bottle]

http://www.tacticsarena.com/unitdetails/beast/furgon.html
Funny, it's been here all along. It just happens to have recieved a lot of attention lately.

And no, it's not the Anti-Rush because of it's newfangled gizmo. We were just too stupid to recognize it for what it is. Shame.
Tried it. Any player with a reasonable amount of skill will either still kill the cleric or keep his mud in reserve for a critical quake that blows the furgon tactics away in one turn.

The new move will be good though.

[Cliche]

Tried it. Any player with a reasonable amount of skill will either still kill the cleric or keep his mud in reserve for a critical quake that blows the furgon tactics away in one turn.

The new move will be good though.

The new move will definetly come in handy...Just one question now, when will we get it?

[*ace*]

wow so much to do with anti-rush... :confused: i was looking foward to reading this... you let me down :(

[gryph89]

I've been working on some new Anti's, mostly things that can stop some same side things, aka, ga, mud, and I must say, I include a furgon in it, and I have not lost a game with it yet using it.

Of course, Im ageeing with Wayf, once the main units dies, such as muddies, and scouts, furgons basically are an auto win if played right.

Hopefully, this new attack will come here soon. ;)

[Match Strike]

OK, yeah, explanation is needed, I know.

Basically, it's a sarcastic thread, but my point is that the game is more balanced than I and a lot of other people have given it credit for being.

A rightly placed GA/Mud combo is always going to be hard to beat, but that can't possibly happen in more than half of your games by definition.

The furgon doesn't block everything, of course, but most decent anti-rushers can hold onto their clerics for a while without furgon (excluding above example) anyways. Even if you don't save your cleric, a frost and/or wisp in the endgame against a rusher with diminished ranged capabilities can still win you the game in many circumstances.

But the point is that there really is no anti-rush. It's a mythological form, a veritable legend spread among former turtlers. As Wayf aptly put it, it's all about preference.

[Bottle]

Unlike some people, I don't claim to have insider knowledge of what Seed plans to do. :)

It's currently in the testing phase in Legends and has had a couple of modifcations made to it.

[gryph89]

Although I do agree with you upon the form itself, it is not mythological...and it is not impossible to stop the ga mud combo, personally, until I finish my form, I wont be playing with it yet.

As for the furgon, even if your opponent is off by one square, it could mean his side plan is ruined, most forms relying upon ga's and mud's are off-balanced on that one side, and having a balanced form to act upon the unbalance, will cause his side to come out short-handed.

edit : post meant for Match , bot, ya beat me to it :P

[*ace*]

hmmm... makes sence to me now :) but anyways ya anti-rushes are hardcore... I can never figure one out, but I have been doing my research and the best anti-rush is from one of the sides (like gryph said) but there is only one annoying problem... If someone has a turtle/rush on the other side of the field... There is where tactics really comes in:cool:

[gryph89]

hmmm... makes sence to me now :) but anyways ya anti-rushes are hardcore... I can never figure one out, but I have been doing my research and the best anti-rush is from one of the sides (like gryph said) but there is only one annoying problem... If someone has a turtle/rush on the other side of the field... There is where tactics really comes in:cool:

Even if you do get the same side as a rush, that means if your opponent is using a common rush, he will most likely have a ga, mud, and wisp, located at the complete other end of the board, putting three major problems out of commision, I said it once and I'll say it again, if you attack with balance, you'll get positive results,Usually with antis, (considering a great deal of them contain frost golems) the most ideal thing to do is take out the range.Even if they are taken out, they can still march units through holes, which is when a furgon comes in.Furgons, if used at the right time, and right place, can restore that balance

[Daemon Bloodmaw]

*ahem*

I was a notoriously feared anti-rusher with my furgon when I still played.

If they didn't have a muddie or a GA, they had to be damn good or I'd whoop their monkey asses. :cool:

[gryph89]

*ahem*

I was a notoriously feared anti-rusher with my furgon when I still played.

If they didn't have a muddie or a GA, they had to be damn good or I'd whoop their monkey asses. :cool:

*ahem* I beat it *cough*

Oh yeah thats right, I went there BURNED BABY!! :fire:

[Bottle]

But the problem with one-sided antis is that if the cleric does die (and not much can stop that if you have GA and mud same side with a scout hanging around), the next mudquake is going to do about 50-75 unhealable unblockable damage to you. Thst's nasty.

[gryph89]

Usually it is harder to explain than to do, Bottle, depending on where the units were located at the time, you could furgon, trying to make the damage more minimal..or you smash the mud with a couple of knights. . .never the less, you are right.

[Ächilles]

When I played, nobody could figure out how to make the new fangled Beast Rider unit useful!

[Throwback]

Anti-Rushes can easily be ownd by any good rusher. No matter how good you tihnk you are. I know only a few good anti-rushers, and yet they still can be beaten. So no matter how good you may think your little anti-rush is. Theres always that one time a rush will own you. :)

[wolf-boy]

back a while ago, I did nothing but anti, I was damn good at it too.

[Throwback]

I dont doubt you. But its just the concept of it. Not every setup can be made to counter another one everytime.

[Match Strike]

IRT Berz: You don't play GA games, that's a big threat that you automatically remove pre-game.

IRT Throwback: And any good rusher can be beaten. No form is invincible, or pure, or perfectly balanced. That was the satirical point of this thread, whether I made it obvious or not is debatable.

[razor2007]

Anti-Rushes can easily be ownd by any good rusher. No matter how good you tihnk you are. I know only a few good anti-rushers, and yet they still can be beaten. So no matter how good you may think your little anti-rush is. Theres always that one time a rush will own you. :)


Bullshit. Noda, Danton, and I figured this out a while ago. The way to go is NOT to make a form that stops cleric killing, but doesn't rely on the cleric, it can play with or without it.

I play a lot of same side mud/GA games where they mud first turn, and I heal and they GA the cleric next turn. I procede to whoop their mud, the frost, then whoop and kill, then kill the GA. So I make them pay for a cleric kill with at least 2 units. granted, they get to make other moves while I'm doing this, but usually (90%) I come out ahead.

Throwback, you're just wrong. There are some pretty famous, pretty good rushers that have fallen to my anti rush. I'm not going to toot my own horn and name them here, but if you want some names, pm me.

Oh, and my anti doesn't use a furgon. It's too low health/blocking to be used in my style. Dan U on the otehr hand DOES use one (he rotates wisp and furgy) and he ahs ebaten me at least twice anti vs. anti simply because he had that furgy (*cough*and it blocked 4 times from teh side *cough*).

So, it's really a style issue. I don't like the furgy for my anti (love it in da turtle). On a related note, there's no true "anti-rush" I mean nothing wil work for everyone, just use your style to dictate your form, nto what soemone else says is the "best" form.

I will close with my 100% anti-rush strategy. "Turtle game, anyone?"

EDIT: I will admit to preferring no GA games, becasue it's more skillful and is usually a helluva lot easier. Problem with these GA/mud combo forms is that they'll only be on the right side 50% of the time. (my anti is set so that the percentage is actually higher, simply because of where most players believe the cleric to be goin.) Even in GA games I usually don't get the GA/Mud/PW side. I get the side with the knights, scout, drag. Now that is a side I like to see in front of me cause ic an chnarge thru holes and flank flank flank.

And throwback, after reading your post a second time(missed a part) I ahve this to say as well. When is that not true? If you anti there's that 1 rush that'll be perfect to pwn you. If yuo rush there's the perfect anti. Same for turtles. It's just how thigns are. Don't tout it as a flaw of anti's because it is an inheent flaw with formations.

[Cuathon]

i rarely lose to an anti rush outside of JW players. because they say no bushy/DSM.

my rush form is a cleric killer. if you are on the GA side, you will lose the cleric in no more than 3 turns.

[bludhoundz]

Bullshit. Noda, Danton, and I figured this out a while ago. The way to go is NOT to make a form that stops cleric killing, but doesn't rely on the cleric, it can play with or without it.

I've told you this before, and I know you don't agree, but I believe the formation you, Noda and Danton use is not the 'antirush' persay. The antirush is supposed to defeat the rush without using many rush tactics itself - the way your 'antirush' is used, its used as a one sided rush, lacking a GA (even so, I could play with one using a GA). Its designed the same way as a rush, just limited to one side of the field.

What I consider a real antirush often has a furgon. In fact, thats pretty much what I expect it to have - more support units.

[Bottle]

My Legends antirush contains both wards and a frost golem, and no furgon. You'd be amazed what it can do. Amazingly, it's better SAME-side than opposite side against a rush.

BW can just as effective, if not more so, than a furgon. That said, that's when you only have to face one scout...

[Throwback]

:S razor2007, not anyone can just throw an anti-rush together and use it. Your saying that your unbeatable with yours, well thats yours, not others. We all have different setups we favor and are good with. Just because say for example, Bottle is really good with his turtle, that doesnt mean if he lets me use it, that i'm gonna be just as good as him with it.

[TurtleKaze]

BW can just as effective, if not more so, than a furgon. That said, that's when you only have to face one scout...

Agreed... But furgon is more versatile, and even though a BW will in many cases better protect a single unit (frosty), furgon can be used to protect numerous units (from a dragon mainly) and is good at keeping melee units off of your nuts until you are better prepared to deal with them.

And BTW... What is (will be) Furgon's new move? I'm starting to get excited.

[Bottle]

The furgon's new attack is that when an allied unit is killed and the furgon is completely surrounded by shrubs, its attack pattern changes for the next turn only and its recovery (if any) is reduced to 0. Instead of a normal "attack", it surrounds all mobile enemy units with shrubs. This move has a 6 turn recovery.