Should citizens be allowed to have firearms? (with permit)

[bludhoundz]

(I searched threads about this and couldn't find one, but feel free to correct me) :)

Do you think that civilians/private citizens (whatever your favorite name for them is) should be allowed guns? I had always been pretty anti-gun, especially after bowling for columbine, but it does just seem like good protection while walking around alone (living in new york city).

Just today, I heard a friend of mine got jumped.. he got out safe because he wriggled out of a headlock and some lady yelled at the teenagers that she was gonna call the police. I don't feel quite as safe any more: I'm definitely considering carrying a knife around, and I can see myself buying a gun in the future when I move out of my parents' apartment.

Just wondering about other people's opinions.

[camolots_guardi]

Well, if you think about it, guns can help you. I mean, if you get jumped and you lose the 50 dollars in your pocket, or are in trouble of getting beaten up, go ahead and have a gun to shoot some people :)

[Spit_101]

(I searched threads about this and couldn't find one, but feel free to correct me) :)

Do you think that civilians/private citizens (whatever your favorite name for them is) should be allowed guns? I had always been pretty anti-gun, especially after bowling for columbine, but it does just seem like good protection while walking around alone (living in new york city).

Just today, I heard a friend of mine got jumped.. he got out safe because he wriggled out of a headlock and some lady yelled at the teenagers that she was gonna call the police. I don't feel quite as safe any more: I'm definitely considering carrying a knife around, and I can see myself buying a gun in the future when I move out of my parents' apartment.

Just wondering about other people's opinions.o_O

[Lua]

Yeah. You can go all 50 cent on that person's ass.

[Spit_101]

Yeah. You can go all 50 cent on that person's ass.Get shot in the mouth? o_O

[Soda]

Guns and Roses are the answer.

[Spit_101]

Guns and Roses are the answer.Welcome to the Jungle!

Uh...we got games? o_O

[Lua]

Get shot in the mouth? o_O
Yeah. Then brag about it a million times afterwards.

[imagination]

i think the area you are in should dictate it too. lets say your in new york, l.a., or some other big city. i dont think you should be allowed to own a gun unless you go through training to have it, pass an extensive background check, and actually need it for some person.
Ok now lets say you are in arizona(where i live). We have fewer largely populated cities(some exceptions like pheonix). I probably am being naive but i think there is less of a chance of people buying guns for the purpose of crime than the purpose of self defense.
Ya so basically the more densely populated the city the harsher the gun laws should be.

[deathbydarkness]

Nope.....man is to wicked.....the bible says that man is not going to be able to do these things because "man steadily decreases"

[gryph89]

"Bullets should cost 50,000$ a piece, that way, there would be no more innocent bystanders." Chris Rock.

Think that says enough.

[Demon_Wings]

Gun good....PPL you can't trust bad....Gun make bad ppl go away...

[Madars]

I think the real question is..Should citizens be allowed to have firearms without a permit?

And the answer is Yes....cause i sure do!

You should also carry a granade just in case someone **looks around** shall try to kill you with a tank.

-Mad-

[Office_Shredder]

Definite yes. My main reasoning points are:
1.) Power over government (this is mainly philosophical in nature). If a law was passed specifically banning armament by the populace, it places too much power in the hands of the government. Now, I know a lot of people are going to say "wtf is Office_Shredder smoking?", and the answer is marijuana. But that's not the point. The point is that, in the drastic scenario that the government oversteps its bounds, the populace, who the government is supposed to be serving, must be able to reinstate its power. By banning guns, the government essentially places itself in the position of power OVER the people, instead of position of power BECAUSE of the people. Without weaponry, the people have no true leverage over the federal government in specific, with the threat of military strike bearing down on the populace. If you think this situation is never going to occur, you're probably right. But from a philosophical standpoint the disarmament of the populace constitutes a potential threat to civil liberties.

2.) Imagine a terrorist steps on your bus and pulls out a gun. It would be nice to be able to legally shoot back :)

3.) If a criminal purchases his gun legally, the government can track him down and catch him. THerefore, if even one stupid criminal gets his gun legally rather than illegally (because he's gonna get the gun 9 times out of 10), at least the judicial system is a little more prepared.

4.) Hunting purposes. Believe it or not (I admit I didn't for a while), people actually hunt for food. It would suck if they had to starve to death.

EDIT:

Ya so basically the more densely populated the city the harsher the gun laws should be.

You have this so backwards. Why the hell would you need a gun for self defense in the middle of the desert? The cities are where the crimes are committed, therefore you need a gun more there. You shouldn't be denied a gun BECAUSE it would be more useful

[Thash500]

Imagine deathbydarkness as an adult with a gun for self-defense.
Later, he turned into a lunatic........

So no gun.:cool:

[imagination]

so ... you take every word of the bible serious? ya i mean it has a good message and we should take certain things from it (maybe for example "thou shalt not kill") but why would you base gun laws off of what book that was written before guns were invented says?
edit:wow this was meant to the guy right after my last post

[gryph89]

I remember I almost shot my dad when I went hunting with him once.He dont take my anymore :dry:

[deathbydarkness]

the bible is never wrong.....it is the INERRANT word of GOD

[Demon_Wings]

Hunting is fun...Somthing bout eating what you kill is better than just eating.

[deathbydarkness]

so ... you take every word of the bible serious? ya i mean it has a good message and we should take certain things from it (maybe for example "thou shalt not kill") but why would you base gun laws off of what book that was written before guns were invented says?
edit:wow this was meant to the guy right after my last post

look if you have any questions/arguments about the BIBLE see my thread..
http://www.tacticsarena.com/forum/showthread.php?t=23231

[Lua]

Imagine Thash500 as a old man using a gun for self-defence.
Later, he turned into an asshole.. But he already is one. so, meh.

So, yes to guns. Later, i'll shoot him.

[Thash500]

Imagine Thash500 as a old man using a gun for self-defence.
Later, he turned into an asshole.. But he already is one. so, meh.

So, yes to guns. Later, i'll shoot him.

LMAO!!1
Copying me and using the word "old man" is the best you got?

[dominion138]

12

[Anarchy_United]

Yes, people should be allowed to have guns. Also, Mariuanja and all drugs should be legal.

[Cuathon]

people who really want guns can get them no matter what so it is really pointless. banning them wont make it any harder to gain an unregistered gun. if you want to carry guns, fine. but if you shoot an innocent person, well...
just hope you dont. it's like the open/transparent society theory. since a determined person, or your government can do it if they really want to. so we should all have the option. registration required though.

[Cuathon]

Yes, people should be allowed to have guns. Also, Mariuanja and all drugs should be legal.


legal drugs? fine, as long as i can say you cant have a job with my company because you use drugs, without getting sued. and health insurance should not be liable for any incidents related to drugs, and neithe should life insurance.

[Liquid Swordsman]

Instead of saying anything myself, I'll just go through other peoples posts and make them look dumb..

Well, if you think about it, guns can help you. I mean, if you get jumped and you lose the 50 dollars in your pocket, or are in trouble of getting beaten up, go ahead and have a gun to shoot some people :)
I know I'd rather shoot someone and go to jail then lose $50. I mean, bail won't cost more than $50 will it?


Nope.....man is to wicked.....the bible says that man is not going to be able to do these things because "man steadily decreases"
Just stop posting on these forums. Your such an ignorant moron I want to rip my own eyes out just reading your moronic posts. If man is steadily decreasing, it's because of shit-heads like yourself.

the bible is never wrong.....it is the INERRANT word of GOD
....:bad:

[dominion138]

34

[imagination]

and that day will be bad ... anyone think about the fact that if there was a ban on guns that it would be the law abiding citizens that turn in their guns and the people that want to to bad that keep theirs?

[DOCTOR DEVICE]

Guns are ok if the person weilding them are responsible. A guy could go crazy on you with a gun, or a responsible man could keep one in his house just in case. It all sepends on the situation.

EDIT: Also, people who would use guns irresponsibly, probably could find some way to get one illegaly if they already don't care about the law.

[Jeffery]

If you take away the legal right for someone to carry a firearm, then the ONLY people with firearms are those who are breaking the laws anyway.
Firearm control does nothing to prevent criminals from accessing and using guns, since they don;t give a damn what the law says anyways.

[Match Strike]

I am deeply conflicted on this one.

On one hand, I have enormous respect for the United States Constitution. trust me, I know about the Second Ammendment; I have read it.

On the other hand, I deeply despise guns; especially those designed with no other purpose than to shoot people. Hunting is fine, I have no problem with that. However, I am morally opposed to the idea of ANYONE having a machine gun, especially a civilian.

Guns kill people. At the very least, I beleive they should be extremely heavy regulation of guns, and perahps a limit of one or two per person (how many can you possibly need?

I'll finish up with the lyrics of a song by Cheryl Wheeler.

Maybe it's the movies, maybe it's the books
Maybe it's the bullets, maybe it's the real crooks
Maybe it's the drugs, maybe it's the parents
Maybe it's the colors everybody's wearin
Maybe it's the President, maybe it's the last one
Maybe it's the one before that, what he done
Maybe it's the high schools, maybe it's the teachers
Maybe it's the tattooed children in the bleachers
Maybe it's the Bible, maybe it's the lack
Maybe it's the music, maybe it's the crack
Maybe it's the hairdos, maybe it's the TV
Maybe it's the cigarettes, maybe it's the family
Maybe it's the fast food, maybe it's the news
Maybe it's divorce, maybe it's abuse
Maybe it's the lawyers, maybe it's the prisons
Maybe it's the Senators, maybe it's the system
Maybe it's the fathers, maybe it's the sons
Maybe it's the sisters, maybe it's the moms
Maybe it's the radio, maybe it's road rage
Maybe El Nino, or UV rays
Maybe it's the army, maybe it's the liquor
Maybe it's the papers, maybe the militia
Maybe it's the athletes, maybe it's the ads
Maybe it's the sports fans, maybe it's a fad
Maybe it's the magazines, maybe it's the internet
Maybe it's the lottery, maybe it's the immigrants
Maybe it's taxes, big business
Maybe it's the KKK and the skinheads
Maybe it's the communists, maybe it's the Catholics
Maybe it's the hippies, maybe it's the addicts
Maybe it's the art, maybe it's the sex
Maybe it's the homeless, maybe it's the banks
Maybe it's the clearcut, maybe it's the ozone
Maybe it's the chemicals, maybe it's the car phones
Maybe it's the fertilizer, maybe it's the nose rings
Maybe it's the end, but I know one thing.
If it were up to me, I'd take away the guns.

[Jeffery]

Guns kill people.

Wrong. A gun has never killed a person on it's own. PEOPLE are the ones who kill people. People have been killing each other for thousands of years before guns were ever invented.
If you outlaw guns, do you also outlaw knives, baseball bats, sticks, chunks of curbs, cars, pillows, ropes and everything else people use to kill each other with?

[dominion138]

like i said before...if guns kill people then pencils make mistakes...:rolleyes:

[Doctor_Evil]

I personally do not like the fact of carrying a firearms. I mean, yes threated you are if you get jumped, yet taking the life of another or just giving up 50 dollars. I personally would chose to loose 50 dollars instead of taking a life. BUT I do recomend carrying a stun gun. Stun guns are available on the market (no not the black market) and it stuns the criminal long enuf for you to run.

[battle composed]

TASER GUN!! -eyes light up as he looks out of his window for potential targets- For some reason, taser guns aren't as cool as they look in games.

Doesn't the second amendment (http://www.saf.org/default.asp?p=gunrights_faq#1) give american citizens of blah blah age blah the right to bear arms for protection? Although I see this more of the work of an government who is unable to protect its people, and so the burden changes shoulders.. If people are allowed to carry firearms in the city, then I want one too, no need to give them all the advantage.

I don't think much of hunting for sport, but we are from different cultures after all.

Firearms and even pseudo products like bb guns are illegal in my country, I think. So citizens toting their fav custom made gold-plated handles doesn't matter much to me, after all, guns were made illegal to me after I cuffed up my little brother and tried to shoot him with my cowboy plastics. :dry:

[battle composed]

Wrong. A gun has never killed a person on it's own. PEOPLE are the ones who kill people. People have been killing each other for thousands of years before guns were ever invented.
If you outlaw guns, do you also outlaw knives, baseball bats, sticks, chunks of curbs, cars, pillows, ropes and everything else people use to kill each other with?

But access to guns makes it so much easier though.

[WaCk-HeAd]

Allowing guns without a permit simply increases the number of gun fights. That's a simple fact, and not one I like.

I'm against carrying firearms.

But then again, I live in Holland and it's not allowed here :)

[insignifiGant]

the bible is never wrong.....it is the INERRANT word of GOD
I'm sorry, but you are an idiot.

[R G]

I think I have only read one entry in here about someone who thinks regulating or banning guns is a good thing...and that person thinks that guns kills people........And Jeffery set them straight...Guns don't kill People kill!

If someone wants to kill another person they will...be it a gun or another instrument of death.

I know of counties where gun ownership is mandatory and those counties have some of the lowest crime rates in the State....You got to figure that criminals don't want to die no more than anyone else..so they pick the counties where they are less likely to get shot....rather logical if you ask me.

I also know that in most places where there is gun control crime rates do not decrease...in fact it either stays the same or in some cases rise...logical conclusion is the law abiding citizen is no longer armed so the criminal takes the easiest safest targets....criminals don't really care if they break the law or not do they?...after all they are criminals aren't they.........and I am sure they don't want to die either.

Occasionally you hear about the criminal who was blown away by a potential victim, but the thing you hardly ever hear statistics on is the potential victim that twarted a crime of opportunity just by waving a gun at a hoodlum...letting them know that you had better not "F**k with me".

Sure there are also the hunters who may hunt for food to fill their families freezer for food or for sport...and that is not a bad thing either. Without hunters the deer population or population of other wild game would overwhelm their natural habitats.

So to sum it up GUNs are good!!!

[Matt 34.5]

...

no.

[Swordz]

HAHAHA!!! I just read this and had an instant connection...

http://www.stupidvideos.com/video/commercials/xboxhandgunsbannedad/

I'm sorry but you have to check that one out... I mean, if this happened, I could seriously see this happening :D

[Turret]

I'm with you there, and it would be so funny.

[meet the fudger]

You should definatly be allowed to own a firearm.

As MS, and bc said, the Second Amendmant gives you right to bare arms.

So thats that.

***************************

You said you were thinking about carrying a knife around...

Do that. I live in New Jersey (close to New york in New jersey,) and I've been there a lot. It's a real rough city. A lot of psychos...I was walkin down the street one time, and there was this bum who had a cardboard sign that read:

"i need a beer."

He had a knife too...I got pretty scared, me and my mom walked past him real quick, so my advice would be :

1) Carry a knife and a gun.

2) NEVER walk alone.

3) Make sure you have a cell-phone or something that can contact the police.

4) Walk on familiar roads and never walk through allies.

5) Walk quickly passed bums and alchoholics. :).

6) This list could go on forever but those are probably the most important. (At least 1-4) :D.

This reminds me a lot of the book The Outsiders which is, may I add, a great book.

[Swordz]

Back then, everyone strongly believed in religion so the right to bare arms would be used for the right purposes in fear of sinning.

Nowadays, you can walk around in big cities and get shot down. No.

[meet the fudger]

Swords is the devil!!

Don't listen!!

Look how many posts he has : 666

AHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!


************************

j/k :p

[Warcow]

This is the one discussion where I REALLY notice the difference between Americans and Canadians.

There is something about American culture, I don't know what it is, but somehow you guys are way more naturally predisposed to guns and gun violence. I don't know any Canadians that own a pistol, and only a couple who own rifles, and those are quite obviously for hunting or just target practice.

Easy access to guns doesn't make you any safer in my books. I would never even think about having a handgun beside my bed to protect myself, the idea of that is absolutely appalling.

[Match Strike]

Wrong. A gun has never killed a person on it's own. PEOPLE are the ones who kill people. People have been killing each other for thousands of years before guns were ever invented.
If you outlaw guns, do you also outlaw knives, baseball bats, sticks, chunks of curbs, cars, pillows, ropes and everything else people use to kill each other with?
I wasn't born yesterday Jeff. Don't you think I've heard that arguement before?

That logic is on the edge of being innane, because of the extremes it can be carried to (i.e., people don't kill people, God kills people, or peoples parents kill people, because without them the killer wouldn't be born).

Duh, people will always kill other people. But guns make it a hell fo a lot easier. Do you think that Columbine would have happened to such an extent if those kids had been armed with baseball bats? Maybe they would have taken out one or two people... maybe.

And in that circumstance, saying that people should be able to carry firearms to protect themselves from other people with firearms; are you guys seriously suggesting every kid in a classroom should be allowed to pack heat?

And what of our enormously high murder rate? Why is it so much worse than other developed countries? If it's societal, we're effed, but I'm inclined to beleive it's because thugs in New York can drive down to West Virginia, buy guns without backround checks, take them back home, and shoot people. Trust me, knives are a LOT harder to kill people with.

[KBHoleN1]

The way I see it, there will always be firearms in the hands of criminals, unless drastic changes to our society take place and the world becomes a lot more like those of dystopian novels (1984, A Brave New World, etc ...), where every action of the populace is monitored and controlled. Assuming that illegal firearms are out there, removing the right to legally own a gun puts the citizens of this country in danger. The dilemma then becomes, whether to break the law, or leave yourself at risk. I realize that the pattern this creates is that one side must always be armed for fear of the other side being armed, but there is no immediate way around it.

I'm from Durham, NC. We have more murders per capita than most cities in the US. Both of my parents own guns, and both have found the need to show them in a situation to protect themselves. For instance, a man entered my Mom's bakery and was acting very suspicious, hiding behind furniture while another customer was being attended to. My mom pulled out her gun, placed it on the counter, and told the man to leave. My 130 pound mother vs. a 200 pound man - I don't want to think about what would have happened had she not been armed.

Gun classes, gun permits, and gun regulations are all good things. They help to limit the availability of certain firearms and to inform the population about the proper use of guns. But a ban on firearms is not the answer, at least not yet. The average citizen must be able to defend himself against those who break the law. And a criminal who's planning on shooting someone isn't worried about whether it's illegal to carry the firearm he's about to use in a murder. There is no easy answer, but it inevitably comes down to the cliche we all see on bumper stickers: Guns don't kill people, people kill people. Almost anything can be used to kill or injure another person, and personally I would rather die from a gunshot to the head than multiple pencil wounds to the chest, cause that shit hurts.

[Hellblazer]

I think they should be able to own at least a rifle or shotgun with a permit. Assault rifles, even with a permit, might be OD.

[Executioner]

Apologies for what i now say, its light hearted and is in no way representing an opinion:

Guns dont kill people, rappers do!!!!!

I live in england, no one i know owns a gun apart from the potato or BB variety.

[Hellblazer]

Guns dont kill people, rappers do!!!!!
Bullets do...

[Executioner]

Just in case the joke got missed: http://www.ifilm.com/ifilmdetail/2674698?htv=12

Then click watch.

[deathbydarkness]

^ who is that?

[KBHoleN1]

Just in case the joke got missed: http://www.ifilm.com/ifilmdetail/2674698?htv=12

Then click watch.
Possibly one of the dumbest things I have ever been subjected to.

[kegsworth]

Guns owned by citizens do not make the world a safer place, I can think of hundreds of reasons why. Let me list a few:

1) Citizens that have guns and have the ability and discernment to use them properly, will eventually do something stupid by accident or incident.

2) Citizens that have guns in they're house and lock them away, are still in danger. Nothing is child-proof and you'll regret owning a gun when your child (or family-member) finds it and decides to 'play' with it. I've seen too many families lose a family member to guns.

3) Bill walks into a bar after having a bad day at work and his girlfriend broke up with him. Bill has a gun on him. Bill has a concealed weapon license. Bill is under-the-influence. Bill gets mad at the guy sitting across from him because he's making rude gestures at him. Bill is to impaired to think straight. Bill gats him. Bill just ruined his life.

Let me share a story with you while I'm in this thread. My dad had a friend that kept a gun on his headboard when he slept at night. His son stayed out late one night and got locked out by his mom who thought he was in his room.
His son came home from his friends house at around 1:00am and since the door was locked, decided to climb through the window he kept unlocked. His dad heard the ruckus and -grabbing his gun- walked downstairs to find his son halfway through the window. He did'nt know it was his son, he just saw someone climbing into his house (btw, his son had a baseball bat he got from his friend that was signed by sammy sosa).
His dad started yelling at the son to get out of the window and to drop the bat, the son was confused and started yelling back to drop the gun. The dad let out a shot and hit the son in the spine from the side paralyzing him. The dad shot himself when he found out what he had done.
Two lives ruined to a something that could have been avoided. The widow and her paralyzed son visit our house every week and we cater to them and try to make it a good experience, but nothing can undo the damage of such a weapon.

All this is to say, I'm not a tree-hugger, I'm not 'anti-war', I don't go protesting everytime someone dies of a shooting. I go shooting with my dad and his friends all the time, but, I will never own a gun unless circumstances are grim. By 'grim' I mean; Unless I lived in West-Harlem or the Bronyx.

[crack class a]

i think people should have guns, everone i know as atleast been mugged once mmost have been mugged more.. but the only thing is if the police find it on you, your going to prison.

[kegsworth]

Not unless you have a concealed weapon license.

[battle composed]

Guns owned by citizens do not make the world a safer place.

That's a pretty broad statement. But I agree with it, given the chance to choose between having to carry a firearm about or without, most people will probably choose not having to carry one.

Glory to the country that has heroes, but I say, pity to the ones who need them. -bastardised and incorrect quote from some dragon film

Too bad alternatives like pepper spray are close ranged and ineffective when the face is protected.

I'm anti war close to my land. It's a hassle and I hate to die, not to mention the prospects of suffering before death grabs me into its arms.

[dominion138]

56

[Dimplex]

Yes.

[deathbydarkness]

Yes. what?

[kegsworth]

Yes = Yes

Duh?!

[Dimplex]

Yes. what?

Yes to the thread question...:dry:

[deathbydarkness]

oooooooo i see.....i didnt think anyone asked a question in the post before you and thats what i thought you were referring to....ma bad....

[Thash500]

Deathbydarkness, are you always this dumb?:cool:

[Match Strike]

I disagree but at least you make a reasonable argument and it's always nice to see someone willing to speak out against the vast majority. ~Mithrandir
That's Miths rep to me from this thread. I appreciate the civility, but I would like to take issue with the term "the vast majority."

Maybe the vast majority of United States citizens beleive that guns should be legal, but the vast majority of people don't. At least not people in the developed world.

[Office_Shredder]

I have to take Dogbert's stance on this now:

I think everyone in the world should have a gun... just not ammunition. I don't trust you buffoons with anything more dangerous than a piece of string.

What about Chuck Norris?

I wouldn't give him the string

[deathbydarkness]

Deathbydarkness, are you always this dumb?:cool:

not always but every once in a while....:bigsmile:

[Match Strike]

I have to take Dogbert's stance on this now:

I think everyone in the world should have a gun... just not ammunition. I don't trust you buffoons with anything more dangerous than a piece of string.

What about Chuck Norris?

I wouldn't give him the string
Damn. You made that reference before me. Jerk.

[Swordz]

If people were allowed guns it would be the end of the world...

want a further explanation? PM me or post here...

[Office_Shredder]

If people were allowed guns it would be the end of the world...

want a further explanation? PM me or post here...

Zoom forward 0 seconds to the future. Notice how the planet has not ended, and America, which permits guns, is the most powerful nation on the planet.


Wow, what a crazy future

[insignifiGant]

Zoom forward 0 seconds to the future. Notice how the planet has not ended, and America, which permits guns, is the most powerful nation on the planet.


Wow, what a crazy future
OMG someone just shot me.

What's happening in this crazy world?

[Swordz]

Zoom forward 0 seconds to the future. Notice how the planet has not ended, and America, which permits guns, is the most powerful nation on the planet.


Wow, what a crazy future

Okay, now lets see what would happen if everybody had a gun...

Lets say some crazy person shot someone, that person retaliated and shot them back, now everyone that was around them is standing there with their guns drawn, ready to fire... lets say that happened in the city, if everybody had guns there would be a mass gunfight, which wouldn't make cities, or large populated places safe anymore, therefor ending the world as we know it with the constant rising of gunfights.

[battle composed]

Wow, we are -gunslingers-

Bang bang, I hit the ground
Bang bang, that awful sound
Bang bang, my baby shot me down.

*old western music starts whistling through the air, an occasional weedball rolling by*

Maybe the vast majority of United States citizens believe that guns should be legal, but the vast majority of people don't. At least not people in the developed world.

I agree. But actually, civilians in the constantly fighting countries have more reason to dislike weaponry.

[Xenon]

Do you think that civilians/private citizens (whatever your favorite name for them is) should be allowed guns?

Yes, they should. If we were allowed to carry guns around here in London, I would buy one right away. I know at least if some idjuts try to start some shit then they will get popped.

I can see it now.

Mugger: Give me your phone blud!
Me: No, or what?!
Mugger: I'll stab you.
Me: Well I'll shoot you.
Then the mugger tries stabbing me and I pull out a gun and pop him.
Me: I told ya, dumbass.

That would be good.

Thing is, no one has tried robbing me on the streets so I'm alright.

[Swordz]

London sounds cool. :cool:

[WaCk-HeAd]

Yes, they should. If we were allowed to carry guns around here in London, I would buy one right away. I know at least if some idjuts try to start some shit then they will get popped.

ROFLMAOAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Fo' sho Gangstah!!

[Match Strike]

Thing is, no one has tried robbing me on the streets so I'm alright.
Sometimes if you let people talk long enough, they will shoot down their own arguements for you.

[Office_Shredder]

Okay, now lets see what would happen if everybody had a gun...

Lets say some crazy person shot someone, that person retaliated and shot them back, now everyone that was around them is standing there with their guns drawn, ready to fire... lets say that happened in the city, if everybody had guns there would be a mass gunfight, which wouldn't make cities, or large populated places safe anymore, therefor ending the world as we know it with the constant rising of gunfights.

You see, this really assumes that everybody's willing to go on a suicidal homicidal rampage. In reality, the crazy person takes a shot, then ten people pull their guns out and fire back. I mean, you could draw the same parallel to punching people. If I throw a punch in a crowd, everybody isn't going to start brawling (unless they're drunk of course, but that's a different story).

And your idea assumes everybody owns a gun in the first place... just because you can buy a gun doesn't mean you are going to (see America for instance; most people I know don't own guns despite it being legal)

[Fenrir]

Absolutely. Under no circumstances should people be revoked of the right to bear arms anywhere in the world as long as it's regulated.

I'm assuming this thread is pertaining to the U.S. I no longer live in the States. I decided to move up here for some peace an quiet after I retired from the Marines (And I sure got it). I have three M1 Rifles for hunting (they're locked up), a Colt .45 Pistol which I keep under my bed, and a broadsword which was a gift to me from my brother.

Humans defy Darwin's theory in every way. We are by no means the fittest, unfortunately. We only were able to endure the tests of time because of our intellectual capablities, not our strengths or abilities to adapt. We have no claws, or great teeth to fight with. We can not outrun wolves or leopards. Under no circumstances could we defeat the strength of a bear or lion. Humans are pathetic in the eyes of Mother Nature, we are the weakest of the weak in the wild. This is why we created weapons.

Every person has the right to defend their well-being, their family, and themselves. Nobody can strip me of that which makes me the wolf's match; the tiger's advesary. If you want violence to decrease, then regulate popular culture - not the right to bear arms. It is every man's God-given right.

[Office_Shredder]

Humans defy Darwin's theory in every way

This is inherently wrong... humans became the fittest by adapting to external stimuli the best (i.e. learning from experience)

[Fenrir]

This is inherently wrong... humans became the fittest by adapting to external stimuli the best (i.e. learning from experience)

Sorry, I should have made myself clear; humans defy Darwin's theory every way physically. If placed in the wild with nothing but himself, no man would outlast the species which have earned their place there.

[Realist]

The reason the consitution guarantees the rights of citizens to bear arms isn't to allow them to hunt. It isn't even to allow self-protection. Its so we can overthrow our government if it ever decides to take away our rights.

Obviously, that didn't work.

[Fenrir]

That's kind of a paradox, isn't it? You have the right to overthrow your government, but if you fail you're charged with high treason?

[Realist]

That's kind of a paradox, isn't it? You have the right to overthrow your government, but if you fail you're charged with high treason?

Remember, the writers of the consitution were themselves considererd treasonous by Britain.

[x-useme]

(I searched threads about this and couldn't find one, but feel free to correct me) :)

Do you think that civilians/private citizens (whatever your favorite name for them is) should be allowed guns? I had always been pretty anti-gun, especially after bowling for columbine, but it does just seem like good protection while walking around alone (living in new york city).

Just today, I heard a friend of mine got jumped.. he got out safe because he wriggled out of a headlock and some lady yelled at the teenagers that she was gonna call the police. I don't feel quite as safe any more: I'm definitely considering carrying a knife around, and I can see myself buying a gun in the future when I move out of my parents' apartment.

Just wondering about other people's opinions.

There are too many crazy people out there, so no.

[Match Strike]

Remember, the writers of the consitution were themselves considererd treasonous by Britain.
Correct, thanks for pointing this out Realist. The founders were concerned about the governemnt, their government, becoming too powerful in the future at some point. They wanted U.S. citizens to be able to do what they did; that is throw off an oppressive government.

However, modern warfare would crush any kind of internal U.S. rebellion, so that in order for a faction to truly be able to win, or gain independence, it would have to be armed with tanks, nukes, and probably a nuclear weapon. Thus, that portion of the constitution, as it was originally intended, is outdated.

[Office_Shredder]

So your logic is..... because it's difficult to overthrow the government due to its power, you believe the government should take away everyone elses weapons, so it's even tougher to overthrow the government.

Good logic

[Realist]

So your logic is..... because it's difficult to overthrow the government due to its power, you believe the government should take away everyone elses weapons, so it's even tougher to overthrow the government.

Good logic

His argument makes sense.

The purpose of the amendment is to protect us from the government. If arms are no longer able to do this, then this purpose is no longer fulfilled by the amendment and is therefore no longer relevent.

However, I do think a majority of Americans could overthrow our government. Look what's happening in Iraq! An American revolution could be better organized, better equipped, and larger due to a greater population. Sure, the government could just nuke the rebels. but nukes have a tendency to hit more than just their direct targets--hard to nuke an American city when you're the American government.

I just don't think its going to happen. Propaganda is cheaper than civil war.

[Office_Shredder]

Exactly! If the majority of Americans open up in armed revolution, we CAN win ;)

[Xenon]

Fo' sho Gangstah!!

Stop trying to speak like a gangsta, cos you can't.

[WaCk-HeAd]

Sorry! Please don't "pop" me now, oh tough one!!!

[Fenrir]

Xenon, you do realize that in that given situation you would be stabbed multiple times before you were able to draw your gun, right?

[dominion138]

11

[Hatchet Klown]

I already illegally own 2 handguns, and legally own a rifle and shotgun... so I am definately pro-guns...

[dominion138]

I already illegally own 2 handguns, and legally own a rifle and shotgun... so I am definately pro-guns...

what are the serial numbers missing?

[Match Strike]

I already illegally own 2 handguns, and legally own a rifle and shotgun... so I am definately pro-guns...
Why? Are you planning on overthrowing the government?

[dominion138]

I already illegally own 2 handguns, and legally own a rifle and shotgun... so I am definately pro-guns...

oh nevermind you're not 21 so you can't own the handguns...or the shotgun for that matter...

[Hatchet Klown]

No, at 18 you can own rifles or shotguns. My brother purchased the 2 hand guns for me. Technically since he doesnt live with me, and they are in my posession, they are illegal.

[Spit_101]

Stop trying to speak like a gangsta, cos you can't.Ahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahaha!!!

[kegsworth]

Yes, they should. If we were allowed to carry guns around here in London, I would buy one right away. I know at least if some idjuts try to start some shit then they will get popped.

I can see it now.

Mugger: Give me your phone blud!
Me: No, or what?!
Mugger: I'll stab you.
Me: Well I'll shoot you.
Then the mugger tries stabbing me and I pull out a gun and pop him.
Me: I told ya, dumbass.

That would be good.

Thing is, no one has tried robbing me on the streets so I'm alright.

Tell him no.
When he threatens you again, give him the phone.
Wait until he's preoccupied by the phone and gat him.
Easy enough.

[dominion138]

No, at 18 you can own rifles or shotguns. My brother purchased the 2 hand guns for me. Technically since he doesnt live with me, and they are in my posession, they are illegal.

no...not shotguns..

[Bottle]

I hadn't noticed this thread.

Americans never cease to amaze me. I had rather wondered why almost the entire world hates/dislikes you. I came to the conclusion that it was the government's fault. I was wrong. It's part of the nation's conciousness, it seems, to be paranoid, and paranoia often leads to trying to seize control when you don't need to.

I'm disappointed by Krome's reaction, predictable though it was. I hope you don't judge all Brits by him. :)

As you can see, I'm against citizens carrying guns. Why should it be necessary?

I'll tell you a little story. Two teenagers broke into a farmer's house for a joke and started spraying it with graffiti and breaking things. The farmer heard them, came downstairs with his gun (that he used for hunting), and shot one of the kids, killing him. He hadn't meant to, of course. The other kid got a couple of months in jail for what he did. The farmer got life.

The public outcry was tremendous, but it didn't make any difference. The farmer had broken the law by killing someone, even in defence of his own property.

There shouldn't be any NEED for you to carry firearms. That's what we have police for. And in any case, violence is not the answer to violence.

[dominion138]

22

[kegsworth]

I hadn't noticed this thread.

Americans never cease to amaze me. I had rather wondered why almost the entire world hates/dislikes you. I came to the conclusion that it was the government's fault. I was wrong. It's part of the nation's conciousness, it seems, to be paranoid, and paranoia often leads to trying to seize control when you don't need to.

I'm disappointed by Krome's reaction, predictable though it was. I hope you don't judge all Brits by him. :)

As you can see, I'm against citizens carrying guns. Why should it be necessary?

I'll tell you a little story. Two teenagers broke into a farmer's house for a joke and started spraying it with graffiti and breaking things. The farmer heard them, came downstairs with his gun (that he used for hunting), and shot one of the kids, killing him. He hadn't meant to, of course. The other kid got a couple of months in jail for what he did. The farmer got life.

The public outcry was tremendous, but it didn't make any difference. The farmer had broken the law by killing someone, even in defence of his own property.

There shouldn't be any NEED for you to carry firearms. That's what we have police for. And in any case, violence is not the answer to violence.

Somehow, Bottle seems to say the things I want to say so much better than I do. Weird. ;)

[MallaLubba]

"Bullets should cost 50,000$ a piece, that way, there would be no more innocent bystanders." Chris Rock.

Think that says enough.
SUPER WORD!!! At least make the bullets the price of your average net kill that way the hunters are justified in paying the bullet price: 100lbs average net deer venison + $6.25/lb = $625 a bullet. That would cut down on the number of shots fired as well as obligatory hunting.

[Northwind]

no guns arn't necissary until someone assaults your girlfriend and you're powerless to do anything about it...

then i'll bet you'll wish you had a gun :rolleyes:
Sure, you can always imagine some scenario where it would be useful to have a gun for self-protection. However, the fact that people are missing here (and this is just the most recent example of it) is that people are FAR more likely to injure themselves or their family with a gun than they are to use the gun for self-defense. If you REALLY want to protect your family, keep guns out of your house. (And before I get a lot of responses like "but I know how to be safe with them." etc., this may be true, but statistically, you are in much more danger of being shot if you have a gun in your home than if you don't.)
and finally i'll bet that kid never broke into another house :)
What, the kid who was killed? Yeah, I bet he never broke into another house again, but don't you think that being killed is . . . oh . . . I don't know . . . a tad harsh for some stupid adolescent hijinks? And even if you were referring to the other kid, for you to put a smiley after that statement kind of makes me sick.

[dominion138]

33

[Bottle]

no guns arn't necissary until someone assaults your girlfriend and you're powerless to do anything about it...

then i'll bet you'll wish you had a gun :rolleyes:
I would never shoot another person, even to save someone's life. If the ONLY option was to kill or be killed, I personally would choose the latter. Reluctantly.

I wouldn't need a gun if someone assaulted my girlfriend.

2nd if he had been in fear of his life it would have been self defense...

and finally i'll bet that kid never broke into another house :)
The farmer's lawyers argued that, the court didn't buy it.

Like Northy, that last sentence sickens me, and it's that that gets you my neg. You can post your opinion, and though I may disagree with it, I won't neg you, but that is just unacceptable.

[Realist]

I don't think the farmer should necessarily have been punished.

Respect other people's property.

[WaCk-HeAd]

Will people please stop arguing with Dominion? Please? Seriously. Please stop arguing with him. It makes me want to hang myself every time I read one of his arguments.

Thanks.

Realist, I have a word for you: Proportionally

[Realist]

If you do stupid things to harm other people. you should expect to get harmed yourself. I don't have much sympathy. Yeah, the kid probably didn't deserve to die. But hopefully it will encourage other people to not do stupid things.

[Bottle]

Be that as it may, Realist, HE BROKE THE LAW by shooting the guy. He may have been within his rights to defend his property, but not to kill someone.

[dominion138]

I would never shoot another person, even to save someone's life. If the ONLY option was to kill or be killed, I personally would choose the latter. Reluctantly.

I wouldn't need a gun if someone assaulted my girlfriend.


The farmer's lawyers argued that, the court didn't buy it.

Like Northy, that last sentence sickens me, and it's that that gets you my neg. You can post your opinion, and though I may disagree with it, I won't neg you, but that is just unacceptable.

you'd probably sit there and watch huh?

btw...neg me till i'm red and watch my post count really increase :tease:

[Bottle]

I wouldn't need a gun if someone assaulted my girlfriend.
you'd probably sit there and watch huh?
Dammit, now I want to neg you again. What a stupid comment to make.

[kegsworth]

I'll neg him for you, that's just wrong.

Edit: Crap!! I pos-repped him!! I'm not used to negging. I owe you two now, dom.

[Cosmo88]

I'll neg him for you, that's just wrong.

Edit: Crap!! I pos-repped him!! I'm not used to negging. I owe you two now, dom.

Don't worry. I won't mess up. :cool: I don't take bashing Netjakers very well, dom.

[dominion138]

44

[Bottle]

As I said, I have no objection to you having a different viewpoint.

I do object to you a) making a joke about someone's death and b) saying that I wouldn't attempt to protect my girlfriend if she was attacked.

[dominion138]

55

[Man's Laughter]

The Farmer shouldn't have been punished. Whether the kid was killed or not should of had no effect on the case. The kid not only broke an entry, but was also vandalizing, and [According to the Farmers limited knowledge] could have been aiming to cause harm to any individuals in the house.

Both kids deserved to have been killed. Too bad the Farmer shot only one of them.

Still, I disagree with the use of civillian-owned Guns, and I don't feel too great towards the amendment which guarantees the right to "bear arms", especially the nutjobs who think that means they can keep an AK-47 in their closet.

There are too many 'tards out there who want to get their hands on Guns to allow civillians to own them.

[dominion138]

55

[Man's Laughter]

i disagree...

criminals will always have guns...until they come out with phasers or some crap the only way to defend against guns is with guns...

secondly i love to camp...i love to go alone...

i have ran into a moutain lion twice...
a rattlesnake once...
and a not so friendly dog...
so far no bears...thank god...

would you rob me and others like me of the protection of a handgun?

they've saved me from death or great bodily harm 3 times...
(the rattlesnake wasn't an imediate threat...)

I wouldn't mind it.

And if Guns themselves swere made illigal, and only in special cases would Guns be issued to anyone, the rate of gun-related crimes would quickly decrease, considering that I'm sure that all those Gun Companies / Stores [The Companies supply the stores, so... Yeah] don't want to get fined for selling Guns to civillians.

If you're not prepared to keep your ass alive while camping without a wee bit of help from Ballistic Combustion, don't go camping.

[Jeffery]

I wouldn't mind it.

And if Guns themselves swere made illigal, and only in special cases would Guns be issued to anyone, the rate of gun-related crimes would quickly decrease, considering that I'm sure that all those Gun Companies / Stores [The Companies supply the stores, so... Yeah] don't want to get fined for selling Guns to civillians.

If you're not prepared to keep your ass alive while camping without a wee bit of help from Ballistic Combustion, don't go camping.
http://www.fraserinstitute.ca/shared/readmore.asp?sNav=pb&id=604

This is a discussion of a study done on crime and violence rates in countries that passed restrictions on gun ownership.
The study showed that there was NO decline in violence. The laws did nothing to stop violence, because criminals will still have guns.
Your "quickly would decrease" has been proven false already.

[dominion138]

66

[Bottle]

the only way to defend against guns is with guns...
This statement is a fallacy, and a very common misconception.

Even so, do you wonder why in almost every CIVILISED country in the world, bosses tell their employees to simply hand over the money if someone comes in waving a gun? It's really not worth getting shot over.

Your chances of dying if you're faced with a gun-toting criminal actually increase if you have a gun of your own. Some are quite willing to use the gun, and if you're threatening them, you're just giving them a reason to shoot you.

[dominion138]

77

[Man's Laughter]

Haha funny.

No, they would decrease for several reasons;

1; Seeing as Guns would only be provided to Military, Police personel and the like, bullets would [Logicially] also be sold only to those select groups, so Robbers with Guns would only be unchallenged until they used up their bullets. Sure, there might be a slight temporary increase, but it wouldn't be enough to make such a movement too dangerous to employ.
2; The price of Black Market guns would skyrocket to the point where Robbers wouldn't bother getting them. Without said Guns, how will there be Gun-Related crimes?

Besides, there are ways other than outright shooting the animals to preserve your own life, and that doesn't involve cracking them over the heads with stones, or anything of that sort.

EDIT: Had Guns been illigal in the first place, that nutjob wouldn't have had a Gun in the first place.

[Bottle]

if he's already pointing the gun at you he's got the upper hand for sure...

most companies have a no firearms policy which comes from the fact that if you shoot someone and wound them...they can sue you...even if it was a legal shoot...

dunno if you remember or even saw but a couple years ago a guy was chasing another guy with a gun outside of a california courthouse...shot him several times...

had someone else had a gun in the crowd outside he could have been stopped much more quickly...
You don't seem to get it, so I'm not going to bother discussing it with you any more. You're almost as bad as dirka at disproving other people's points. Instead you just keep spouting your own same argument over and over with no further justification.

Have you ever been part of a debating society? I doubt it, because you'd be torn to SHREDS.

But in response to your final point, THAT'S WHAT WE HAVE POLICE FOR.

[dominion138]

Haha funny.

No, they would decrease for several reasons;

1; Seeing as Guns would only be provided to Military, Police personel and the like, bullets would [Logicially] also be sold only to those select groups, so Robbers with Guns would only be unchallenged until they used up their bullets. Sure, there might be a slight temporary increase, but it wouldn't be enough to make such a movement too dangerous to employ.
2; The price of Black Market guns would skyrocket to the point where Robbers wouldn't bother getting them. Without said Guns, how will there be Gun-Related crimes?

Besides, there are ways other than outright shooting the animals to preserve your own life, and that doesn't involve cracking them over the heads with stones, or anything of that sort.

EDIT: Had Guns been illigal in the first place, that nutjob wouldn't have had a Gun in the first place.

ammo is amazingly easy to make...

you need:

used shell casing
gunpowder
lead
primer

[monkus]

Haha funny.

No, they would decrease for several reasons;

1; Seeing as Guns would only be provided to Military, Police personel and the like, bullets would [Logicially] also be sold only to those select groups, so Robbers with Guns would only be unchallenged until they used up their bullets. Sure, there might be a slight temporary increase, but it wouldn't be enough to make such a movement too dangerous to employ.
2; The price of Black Market guns would skyrocket to the point where Robbers wouldn't bother getting them. Without said Guns, how will there be Gun-Related crimes?

Besides, there are ways other than outright shooting the animals to preserve your own life, and that doesn't involve cracking them over the heads with stones, or anything of that sort.

EDIT: Had Guns been illigal in the first place, that nutjob wouldn't have had a Gun in the first place.

We're talking about banning guns in the US, not in the world. If you honestly think someone can't buy a gun for a few hundred dollars in some militant third-world country, you're mistaken.

Also, private citizens owning guns is a way we check the government. It sounds stupid now, but it's mainly in the abstract, and if in some instance the government were to become oppressive, private militias must exist to repel it and the diminished, federal-loyalist army that serves it.

[Man's Laughter]

FINISHED EDITING

I don't think that just any lead will work. And you make it seem a lot easier than it is. Such a bullet-making process will only work for so many people, and even if the used shells can be used to repeat this process, you won't be able to recover them all.

We're talking about banning guns in the US, not in the world. If you honestly think someone can't buy a gun for a few hundred dollars in some militant third-world country, you're mistaken.

I'm sure it'll be easy to get them through the boarders.

Also, private citizens owning guns is a way we check the government. It sounds stupid now, but it's mainly in the abstract, and if in some instance the government were to become oppressive, private militias must exist to repel it and the diminished, federal-loyalist army that serves it.

Considering that most of the Military fights for the freedom of Americans, most of them probably wouldn't stick around. Without most of it's Military personel, it's going to be hard to keep such an iron fist on such a large Country.

[dominion138]

You don't seem to get it, so I'm not going to bother discussing it with you any more. You're almost as bad as dirka at disproving other people's points. Instead you just keep spouting your own same argument over and over with no further justification.

Have you ever been part of a debating society? I doubt it, because you'd be torn to SHREDS.

But in response to your final point, THAT'S WHAT WE HAVE POLICE FOR.

the people in new orleans said pretty much the same thing..."thats what the government is for"

you're assuming there will always be someone there to bail you out...its not realistic...

[dominion138]

55

[Bottle]

the people in new orleans said pretty much the same thing..."thats what the government is for"

you're assuming there will always be someone there to bail you out...its not realistic...
No, I'm not EXPECTING there to always be police there. But if everyone had guns, we wouldn't need police, would we.

And the people in New Orleans didn't have a gun pointed at their head. That's a completely inadaquate analogy.

Please, just stop repeating your points over and over. Unless you have something new to post, don't post. :)

[Man's Laughter]

it is that easy for any centerfire round...and lead is lead...fishing weights, wheelweights...

look how easy it is to get drugs across the boarder...

Okay, fine; let's say that people do find ways to smuggle Guns from all sorts of Third-World Militant countries; is that going to make them any more affordable?

[Ächilles]

the only way to defend against guns is with guns...

You couldn't be more wrong. I know techniques as to how disarm just about every position I could be in with a gun pointing at me from point blank range. I wouldn't count my life on it, but you're wrong. I'm confident I could disarm someone with just my hands.

[Bottle]

I was just waiting for Ach to post that. :)

[THUNDER-K9]

Blud, Great post man! I would never carry a knife to defend myself. I have read 9 + pages of this before I posted. Yes I have 23 guns, 12 handguns,4 shotguns, 4 highpower rifles,2 of the so called assault rifles and 1 that we won't talk about.

For every story about how guns that are bad, I could give you just as many that are good. I am not here to debate this with you, I know that if you don't like guns there is nothing that I could say to you that would change your mind.

In my mind we live in a world of nasty people, (not all of them just the few) but it's the few that make me feel that I would not walk down the street without one. As for the guys that think making bullets cost more would stop me from hunting, It wouldn't. Any game is the most expensive meat I have ever had, by the time I take off work, buy a all the things I need to go hunting. It would be cheaper to go to Wal-Mart and get a case of steaks. I hunt to relax and for food.


Bottle your are right if you use a gun in any case you will have a huge problem, you better have a good lawyer. If you would choice to die rather then take a life thats your call and your own opinion. I hope you live and work in a nice place and no one ever breaks in to your house

It's better to be judged by 12, then carried by 6.

[Northwind]

So all you people who are opposed to gun control. I suppose this (http://www.theonion.com/content/node/28562) is perfectly OK to you?

Personally, I think this is an outrage and something should be done about it. Metal detectors at the entrance seem like reasonable precautions. Where is your humanity, people???

[Excaliber]

There is nothing wrong with guns...

And for the school shooting aspect guns are not the problem... Have guns caused these problems? No. Derranged people commit acts of violence on their own accord for whatever reason...

Basically I see nothing wrong with posessing a firearm... It is just what you chose to do with it...

[mushroom_girl]

So all you people who are opposed to gun control. I suppose this (http://www.theonion.com/content/node/28562) is perfectly OK to you?

Personally, I think this is an outrage and something should be done about it. Metal detectors at the entrance seem like reasonable precautions. Where is your humanity, people???
:eek:

Look at that! See what the gangsta life has done to our children?!

[Kreator]

So all you people who are opposed to gun control. I suppose this (http://www.theonion.com/content/node/28562) is perfectly OK to you?

Is that a joke? Becuase they are not being serious in that, at all. I see nothing wrong with owning a firearm, as long as you use it for hunting or protection.

[Jeffery]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/2656875.stm

Gee, gun control sure does ensure people safety......

[sayter]

there are two schools of thought here that are valid. No others.

1: Outlaw all guns, everywhere, for all time, save for military personnell and law enforcement. This approach removes guns fromt he public , but also encourages smuggling far moreso than it already is.

2: Make owning a gun more or less mandatory for households. Not necessarily permit to carry, but make it allowed and encouraged. If everyone HAD guns, the use of guns in violent crime would likely drop..why? Because would you want to risk robbing that guy when you KNOW he is packing? Is it worth your life for a bus ticket and 5$?

Gun Control is a sham, it wont ever work. It really is a tough thing to regulate. Option 2 works in a few places in the US where this is more or less the case. Those towns have next to 0 crime rate. Option 1 is utopian dream, but impossible to maintain.

[R G]

So all you people who are opposed to gun control. I suppose this (http://www.theonion.com/content/node/28562) is perfectly OK to you?

Personally, I think this is an outrage and something should be done about it. Metal detectors at the entrance seem like reasonable precautions. Where is your humanity, people???

I am sure that fetus had a good reason to shoot his sibling in the womb.

Who knows what happens in the confines of any womb? Maybe the the victim tied a knot in the ambilical cord of the shooter....We just don't know. :rolleyes:

[uniquinous]

aw crap I missed a good debate :(

i'ma guess people are claiming guns are good for hunting and protection. All I can ask is: if hunting, how often? If protecting, get a tazer - it's much more entertaining...

[sayter]

baah. If you want to use a gun to hunt, its cowardly. Hunt like a real man. Hunt prey that can hunt you back, and use only bows, spears or your bare hands.

Shooting a deer from 50+ yards is not thrilling. Stabbing a tiger in the neck with a short spear while it lunges at you for the kill...now THAT is excitement.

[Anarchy_United]

Boo gun control!!