Opinion on the mudquake (use this thread please)

[Bottle]

I could have put this in General Strategy, but I wanted it to have more coverage.

Now, the new rules certainly go a long way towards helping turtles defend against rushes, but they still have one problem that will defeat them every single time: the mudquake. Put quite simply, this attack is just as unblockable as the GA was and does even more damage once the cleric is dead, especially if the stone focus isn't up. Normally, by the time you've got rid of a scout, mud, and perhaps 1 other ranged unit that charged in to kill your cleric (BR, wisp, other scout, amby or whatever) then your cleric is gone and you've taken about 10 damage (on average) on every single one of your units.

This, I believe, could be rectified with a simple change:

MUDQUAKE DEALS 0 DAMAGE TO ALL UNITS WITHIN 3 SPACES.

This makes it a focus-breaking and shrub-destroying attack ONLY. It gives turtles a chance to counterattack with decent-HP units after the initial ranged barrage. It would encourage the mudquake to be used at strategic times instead of just throwing it in there as soon as the cleric dies for a suicidal, heavy-hitting attack.

I'm just wondering who, if anyone, would support me if I was to take this opinion forward to Seed, as Twelve did with the anti-GA petition. I'm going to make it a public poll, and feel free to offer your opinions in the thread as well.

[WaCk-HeAd]

I wouldn't agree, with the new changes and this new change the turtle will be overpowered.

[Bottle]

Well, I haven't lost to a turtle with my rush yet since the new rules arrived.

[S_K_O_F]

I could have put this in General Strategy, but I wanted it to have more coverage.

Now, the new rules certainly go a long way towards helping turtles defend against rushes, but they still have one problem that will defeat them every single time: the mudquake. Put quite simply, this attack is just as unblockable as the GA was and does even more damage once the cleric is dead, especially if the stone focus isn't up. Normally, by the time you've got rid of a scout, mud, and perhaps 1 other ranged unit that charged in to kill your cleric (BR, wisp, other scout, amby or whatever) then your cleric is gone and you've taken about 10 damage (on average) on every single one of your units.

This, I believe, could be rectified with a simple change:

MUDQUAKE DEALS 0 DAMAGE TO ALL UNITS WITHIN 3 SPACES.

This makes it a focus-breaking and shrub-destroying attack ONLY. It gives turtles a chance to counterattack with decent-HP units after the initial ranged barrage. It would encourage the mudquake to be used at strategic times instead of just throwing it in there as soon as the cleric dies for a suicidal, heavy-hitting attack.

I'm just wondering who, if anyone, would support me if I was to take this opinion forward to Seed, as Twelve did with the anti-GA petition. I'm going to make it a public poll, and feel free to offer your opinions in the thread as well.

The turtle managed to survive even after the mudquake was introduced. I really don't see any need for the change. Really, sacrificing the muddy just to break stoney focus early in the match doesn't seem to be a real popular method of defeating a turtle. I honestly would prefer it if turtles were not completely invincible against other formations, though. I would like to see TAO get back to a multy form game that anyone can play any form and the game be decided on who is the better player.
Forcing everyone to be a turtler isn't the idea.

[Matt 34.5]

I think if the mud jumped around killing shrubs, and making frosties lose focus it'd be dead pretty easily without having done any real damage. I dunno.. maybe lower the damage to, 10 (closest to him), 5 (1 square away), and 0 (3 squares away). where the third square only makes units lose focus, and distroys shrubs.
I realise the muddy still has his main attack, but say the muddy moves to the other side of an L ward, to make a frosty lose focus, then its prety much dead, and it'd become nothing more than a sacraficial unit for alot of games.

[WaCk-HeAd]

Well, I haven't lost to a turtle with my rush yet since the new rules arrived.
You're not an average player. The turtle has a lot more chance to stand up against a rush, enough for the moment.

I suggest we first adjust to the new rules completely and check what it will mean for the game.

I also think the muddy is fine as it is. It can be a completely useless unit, but if you don't watch it, it can and will tear you apart.

We need to discuss the second scout before we talk about the muddy, in my opinion.

Plus, I think Seed did a very good job with new changes, it would be incredibly rude (in my opinion) to keep on asking, when he already improved so much.

We don't want to use Twelve's way whenever we're not happy with the rules, either. It needs to remain for "emergencies", else it will lose its value.

[the bird]

i think the furgon would be over powered then. in a turtle game if u kill the muddie fast and u have a furgon then u are most likely to win the turtle game thats if u didn't get de-stoned or lose any units while doing so. i was helping out a clan mate in turtles the other day and i moved in my muddie close with 2 scouts and a dragon to back it up. i used the mudquake to de-stone him and to weaken his units alot and then he said that move was over powering and there is no way to stop it. i said yes there is but it takes alot of thinking to do. i think sometimes the muddie is over powering but sometimes i think it dosen't have enough power.

[Bottle]

Bird, you didn't read my post. The mudquake would still knock over shrubs.

Very well, it seems people will be mostly against this. A pity. I'd like for turtles to pose me SOME challenge when I rush them and kick their asses. *sigh*

[S_K_O_F]

Bird, you didn't read my post. The mudquake would still knock over shrubs.

Very well, it seems people will be mostly against this. A pity. I'd like for turtles to pose me SOME challenge when I rush them and kick their asses. *sigh*

what you are suggesting is making the turtle impossible to beat without another turtle.

[AlabamaBoy]

Howdy Bottle, you up for a game? I play on Armageddon. If so just send me a message. I will be here on and off today i would realy love to play a game with you though. Thankies :cool: By the way, i think modifying the rules constantly makes everyone have to re-evaluate their stratagies, lets just see how these go before we do anything crazy ;)

[Bottle]

Very well. I see it otherwise, but that's OK.

[uniquinous]

I would like to see TAO get back to a multy form game that anyone can play any form and the game be decided on who is the better player.
Forcing everyone to be a turtler isn't the idea.
This is why I play grey. :)


Bottle - if you want a challenge do what I do on grey: only put 7 or 8 units on the field. ;)

[Dove]

Hmmm... it depends on usage. Honestly, while the mudquake can be used tactically, it can also be used recklessly for straight damage.

Unfortunately there's no way to hurt those just doing damage without taking power away from defensive forms as well. I often use my mud for more than just focus breaking, and the mudquake is a big part of it.

Just like anything else, particularly units like the DSM, it can be used strategically or just as a bomb. There's no way to negate it without being counterproductive, in my mind.

[BigMan9878]

I say that it stays the same, i think that the whole point of it was to make it so that it would break focus while dealing some damage, otherwise the muddy would be pretty much useless.

[BaxVarlet]

Bird, you didn't read my post. The mudquake would still knock over shrubs.

Very well, it seems people will be mostly against this. A pity. I'd like for turtles to pose me SOME challenge when I rush them and kick their asses. *sigh*

Translation: I'm bottle, my rush is undefeated and i'm awesome, no one can stand up to my awesomeness, therefore the game is flawed. No one is as good as me, so my power must be reduced!

Don't use a mud, you don't have to change the game just for your enjoyment when you can simply make a rush/turtle game more challenging on your own.

[Learz]

I think its balenced. However, it was designed back in the old days, so maybe it needs a little more tweaking, like.... it does 7 damage to all tiles within 3 squares.

Or something like that.


yay another pc+1!

:bigsmile:

[Bottle]

Translation: I'm bottle, my rush is undefeated and i'm awesome, no one can stand up to my awesomeness, therefore the game is flawed. No one is as good as me, so my power must be reduced!

Don't use a mud, you don't have to change the game just for your enjoyment when you can simply make a rush/turtle game more challenging on your own.
Sorry, I disagree with your translation. If I take out my mud, I simply won't beat anyone half-decent with a furgon. I still need the mud to break shrubs.

Anyway, it looks like everyone is against me on this one anyway, so as we've established that, the thread might as well be closed.

[Warcow]

For the record Bottle, I tried to neg you about your post about "kicking their asses."

I don't know what happened that got your ego extra inflated these days, but it's out of hand and needs to stop. Maybe go play some better players or something, or at least stop with the "I am way too f****** good for all of you" every second line. You're not better than everyone else, you're damn good, but there are people as good if not better.

Honestly, you're starting to sound like *TN*

As for the actual topic, I think eliminating all the damage is overkill, but toning it down might help with the balance.

[Bottle]

Please point out at what point in that first post I said "Being so much better than everyone else, I want this to happen". Maybe I got a little defensive when I saw that everyone was against my idea, for which I apologise.

PLEASE don't liken me to that cheat *TN*. That's going a bit too far, surely.

[Warcow]

Please point out at what point in that first post I said "Being so much better than everyone else, I want this to happen". Maybe I got a little defensive when I saw that everyone was against my idea, for which I apologise.

PLEASE don't liken me to that cheat *TN*.

I didn't say your first post, I was talking about the one in which you replied with the kicking their asses comment. This is not just based on this one thread either, it has been a raise in your ego to intolerable levels even from you over the last month or so.

I wasn't likening you to his cheating habits, but lately you DO remind me of his "I art so much greater than thou" asshole attitude.

[Bottle]

*shrug*

Perhaps this was better in General Strategy after all. :dry:

At least then I wouldn't be getting so comprehensively flamed. :huh:

OK, I'm done with this IDEA.

[WaCk-HeAd]

I don't know what happened that got your ego extra inflated these days, but it's out of hand and needs to stop.

Finally!

Sounds familiar, Bottle?

[.Vash.]

I agree with you bottle, only becuase now that you got new units, it's kinda throwing away the balance of the mud golem, I have been here a long time but as of late the mud has been kinda getting on my nerves.So yeah I think it would be best if it only broke focus instead of dealing damage.

[Bottle]

Finally!

Sounds familiar, Bottle?
Yes, thanks wack. :dry:

*counts down seconds until thread is closed*

[Wolfman]

bot, cow has a point...

lately, both u and star seemed to be blown out of proportion.

we all agreed (at least wolf is) that lately both of ya r doing great with the new changes.. but u don hv to over-do-it.

one thing though, wolf aint jealous.

wolfy

***cow, be nice, u don hv to be so harsh to get your message thru :P

[Bottle]

OK. You want to know WHY I'm acting so egotistically recently? I'll tell you why.

NO ONE will play me unless I trashtalk to them, or they don't care about their rating, or they think they can beat me (a small number). NO ONE AT ALL. I know others put up with it as well, but it sure as hell frustrates me that I don't get to play anyone good simply because they're scared of losing a couple of meagre rating points. I had to trashtalk basically the entire Arcadian clan to get them to play me. And even then, people made obviously fake excuses, avoided my challenges, plain old ignored me. I spent about 5-6 days on GL. In that time, around 3/4 of my challenges were either ignored or turned down.

I come here to play the game and enjoy myself. I'm not able to because of my friggin' reputation as someone who is very hard to beat. (Not my opinion, I know I can be beaten, but most players on GL don't agree with that.)

If what it takes to be able to play the game is a bit of trashtalking and a bit of ego which people see as being required to be taken down a notch, I don't really care any more. I want to play the game. I want a challenge. I don't want to sit in the lobby for hours looking for someone to play, when I want to play.

Thus endeth my rant.

Edit: I never seemed to have this problem on Exiled. Thanks, JW/The Prophet.

[Wolfman]

OK. You want to know WHY I'm acting so egotistically recently? I'll tell you why.

NO ONE will play me unless I trashtalk to them, or they don't care about their rating. NO ONE AT ALL. I know others put up with it as well, but it sure as hell frustrates me that I don't get to play anyone good simply because they're scared of losing a couple of meagre rating points. I had to trashtalk basically the entire Arcadian clan to get them to play me. And even then, people made obviously fake excuses, avoided my challenges, plain old ignored me. I spent about 5-6 days on GL. In that time, around 3/4 of my challenges were either ignored or turned down.

I come here to play the game and enjoy myself. I'm not able to because of my friggin' reputation as someone who is very hard to beat. (Not my opinion, I know I can be beaten, but most players on GL don't agree with that.)

If what it takes to be able to play the game is a bit of trashtalking and a bit of ego which people see as being required to be taken down a notch, I don't really care any more. I want to play the game. I want a challenge. I don't want to sit in the lobby for hours looking for someone to play, when I want to play.

Thus endeth my rant.

bot, wolf think u might need a new strategy to get your games in.

wolf sometimes has that problem too.

wolf found a good strategy to fight it.

sometimes to get wolf´s games, wolf says "don worry, wolf is dumb." or "lets train, u will get better n wolf will give u tips." or "Tur is fun, learn it so that one day u can win great ppls like cow, monk or wolf."

think about it.

your bro
wolfy

[.Vash.]

Bots, ok I feel the same way homie, I have that prob alot, I have to try alot of things just to get a game from a 1300 or 1400 seeing as most 1700-1800s wont play anymore for some odd reason.......

[AlabamaBoy]

I'll play you bottle. Today at 5 est on Armageddon.

[Bottle]

If you make it 6pm and on Rev (I have no gold account on Army), I'll be there if I can.

[AlabamaBoy]

Works for me I think, im not sure about my plans for six though so if you can make it five please do. Revelation it is, limit your set to one mud though.

[Bottle]

Are 3 frosts allowed, then? :wink2:

[Wolfman]

Are 3 frosts allowed, then? :wink2:
bot.... show him your 10-frosty set :P

wolfy

[Realist]

No. Muds are fun, lovable units. If anything, add a turn of recovery to muds if you have to weaken them (though I don't suggest this). There's a good reason they were given a second attack.

[Bottle]

No.
I think that's been established, Realist. :dry:

[Twelve]

A lot of things have come up in this thread...

1. The biggest problem here in FPS are the two scouts. Simply put, a good turtler can still never beat a good rusher with two scouts. That's all there is to it. THAT'S the problem on FPS that has to be solved. Taking away a scout would open up a variety of effective formations that would keep the game's integrity.

2. It IS too easy to kill turtles on FPS. Way too easy still. It takes more skill now, but it's still a guaranteed win of you have that skill. So Bottle wasn't off there.

3. So Bottle (and Star?) sound cocky these days. Look at all the wannabe mods jumping on them to show how much more mature they are. Fact is, Bottle and (and Star?) ALWAYS act this way...now people want to act more "sensitive". Whatever, guys. Just be yourselves. Trust me, I know Bottle is cocky...but tell me who among here isn't.

12

[AlabamaBoy]

Funny Bottle, but if thats the case we'll wait till i get all the units i need on rev for my turtle set. I do not like this because it makes me look like im just another guy making lame excuses about challenging you. Ten frosties, id love to see it.

[Wolfman]

Trust me, I know Bottle is cocky...but tell me who among here isn't.

12

12, by star, i refer to allstarGL (our rev team mate).

about the cocky thingy.... wolf try everyday not to be one.:search:

wolfy

[Bottle]

I only have 3, but I was joking anyway. I'll be on sometime after 5.30, no rare drops allowed. OK?

Thanks for the support, 12, I know you're another one of those who has to put up with the challenge-avoiding...

I'm out, folks, later.

[.Vash.]

12, by star, i refer to allstarGL (our rev team mate).

about the cocky thingy.... wolf try everyday not to be one.:search:

wolfy

And you do such a good job! :secret:

jk :P

[WaCk-HeAd]

A lot of things have come up in this thread...

1. The biggest problem here in FPS are the two scouts. Simply put, a good turtler can still never beat a good rusher with two scouts. That's all there is to it. THAT'S the problem on FPS that has to be solved. Taking away a scout would open up a variety of effective formations that would keep the game's integrity.

2. It IS too easy to kill turtles on FPS. Way too easy still. It takes more skill now, but it's still a guaranteed win of you have that skill. So Bottle wasn't off there.

3. So Bottle (and Star?) sound cocky these days. Look at all the wannabe mods jumping on them to show how much more mature they are. Fact is, Bottle and (and Star?) ALWAYS act this way...now people want to act more "sensitive". Whatever, guys. Just be yourselves. Trust me, I know Bottle is cocky...but tell me who among here isn't.

12
We know we are, and we know Bottle is. Allthough, I (and seemingly others) feel that his ego has been sky-rocketing lately, and we're just pointing it out.

I don't dislike Bottle, I still very much enjoy his presence, and I hope he stays. He knows this. But I will tell him if I think something is up, and I hope he'll do the same for me.

Claiming we're being more "sensitive" because of the Mod-Election is just plain insulting, not to mention incorrect, by the way. I've been telling Bottle this for over a few days now, long before I signed up for the election.

And I disagree with your #2 as well. Turtles have a very decent chance, to stand up against rushes with the new changes.
I proved that in my game with you. (and don't give me that bullcrap of beating me because we both know why.)

Point is, it was a good game, which could have been won by either of us.

The game is fine right now, and we first need to give the new changes some time. THen we'll talk about the second scout.

[Warcow]

3. So Bottle (and Star?) sound cocky these days. Look at all the wannabe mods jumping on them to show how much more mature they are. Fact is, Bottle and (and Star?) ALWAYS act this way...now people want to act more "sensitive". Whatever, guys. Just be yourselves. Trust me, I know Bottle is cocky...but tell me who among here isn't.


You should know by now I call things as I see them, we've had this discussion before ;)

Like I said, it had risen beyond normal levels, but I've said my peace for now.

[Twelve]

Claiming we're being more "sensitive" because of the Mod-Election is just plain insulting, not to mention incorrect, by the way. I've been telling Bottle this for over a few days now, long before I signed up for the election.
.

That's what I mean about being overly sensitive lately. I'm trying to insult you just as much as you're trying to insult Bottle by "politely" pointing out that he's being a cocky prick lately. ;)

Get my drift?

12


P.S. Oh, and Wack, our game? Play me again and I'll let you see how to position the scouts so that no turtle has a chance. ;) That form you saw was a legends form designed for one-scout combat.

[WaCk-HeAd]

That's what I mean about being overly sensitive lately. I'm trying to insult you just as much as you're trying to insult Bottle by "politely" pointing out that he's being a cocky prick lately. ;)

Only I'm basing my comments on the truth, and you are not not.

P.S. Oh, and Wack, our game? Play me again and I'll let you see how to position the scouts so that no turtle has a chance. ;) That form you saw was a legends form designed for one-scout combat.

No problem. Are those scouts depending on sides or not?

[Twelve]

Only I'm basing my comments on the truth, and you are not not.

Oh, ok. I guess I'll take your word for it.




No problem. Are those scouts depending on sides or not?

Heck no. ;) 2 scouts in the front line middle, plus a mud and a BR= pwnage of turtle every time.

12

[WaCk-HeAd]

Oh, ok. I guess I'll take your word for it.





Heck no. ;) 2 scouts in the front line middle, plus a mud and a BR= pwnage of turtle every time.

12

Oki doki! Just give me a time and place.

[Twelve]

What's up with right now, son???

12

[WaCk-HeAd]

Playing on GL, meet me there in about 10 minutes.

[Twelve]

Get ready for your second loss to me in 3 days!!

(uh-oh...I wonder if I sounded like a "cocky-prick" just now....hmmm.)

12

[WaCk-HeAd]

The funny thing is, the record would still be in my favor.
Especially when you consider how you win your matches.

:bigsmile:

[Twelve]

OH! So now I don't win my matches correctly. O.K. And here I am constantly trying to make sure the game is balanced. I'm soooo unfair. :)

12

[WaCk-HeAd]

Hahaha, just come to GL, fool. I don't have that much time.

And you know you won the last because of a misclick.

[WaCk-HeAd]

DISCONNECTED

God damn it!

[Office_Shredder]

I don't get it. Before the changes, you had people claiming they could beat rushes with turtles either way. Now that the game favors turtles more, no one seems to be able to beat a rush with their turtle (except me, on my first try. Hmmm....).

Throwing out the mudquake damage would be the wrong way to go. Instead of balancing it out, it would make the mud golem useless. The mudquake is a nice unit finisher, and is also good at banging up groups of units. Other than that, the muddy is just a glorified punching bag (no blocking, no armor, are you kidding me?). The only people using muddies would be those who know they're playing another turtle, and we would be in the same situation as before, but in reverse: people would be asking for non-turtle games so they don't need to worry about sacrificing a unit for a 60 hp piece of crap (literally.... that's definitely not mud :D )

[Twelve]

DISCONNECTED

God damn it!

:)

Well, I think both you and I can agree that I had the game in hand, right? Thereby proving my point. Even when you know what my form will look like, even when I play dumb on purpose(as I told you I would, demonstrating a noob player), two scouts makes it an easy win against a turtle.

12

[WaCk-HeAd]

:)

Well, I think both you and I can agree that I had the game in hand, right? Thereby proving my point. Even when you know what my form will look like, even when I play dumb on purpose(as I told you I would, demonstrating a noob player), two scouts makes it an easy win against a turtle.

12


Oh come on, this is just weak. It would have been a knight + dragon + lward + stoney against Dragon, 2 knights + 9 health scout and then I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt that you would kill my 24 health muddy before it could hit your scout the third time.

You didn't have that game in your hand. What would you have done after I could easily stone both my knight and dragon, without you hitting either of them, and I stayed at my Lward?

And you played stupid? How did you play stupid? The only thing you said was that you'd make a dumb move, but then proceeded to make the best move you could have made.

Another point, if I would have been on the other side, it would have been much easier for me. I challenge you to try it.

Not even to mention it was my first time with that setup.

Fact is, it is true that rushes still have somewhat of an advantage, but turtles are definitely not easy to beat.

If it is so easy how come both matches we played were close and could have been won by either player?

[Twelve]

Alright. I got a screenie of when you disconnected.

12

Edit:

Here it is:

http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/1613/wackvs12part29gf.png

12

[WaCk-HeAd]

Yes, your beastie on 18, ready to be killed at any time.

After hitting your dragon from behind with my scout, I would move next to my muddy, preventing you from killing my muddy with your dragon. I would then hit your beastie from the side again. Lets say it blocks, since I hit it once already. I would then mudquake next to your scout, dropping it to 9. Assuming you're able to kill my muddy I can hit your scout again.

Your beastie could die any second after that blocked move, I move my knight next to my dragon and stone it. All of this when you're busy killing my mud and scout.

I move all units next to my lward and then what would you do?

[Twelve]

Wack...LOL! I'm not going to get into a woulda-coulda-shoulda about this. That goes nowhere and forever. I'll just let the screeny speak for itself. Even in that scenario where I must be standing still for you to do everything you want (lol), you still needed to know exactly how I would bring my dual scouts to prepare for it. Can turtles only have a chance if they know exactly what's coming?

12

[Hellblazer]

I think the mudquake's fine the way it is. It doesn't do too much damage to any unit.

[WaCk-HeAd]

Wack...LOL! I'm not going to get into a woulda-coulda-shoulda about this. That goes nowhere and forever. I'll just let the screeny speak for itself. Even in that scenario where I must be standing still for you to do everything you want (lol), you still needed to know exactly how I would bring my dual scouts to prepare for it. Can turtles only have a chance if they know exactly what's coming?

12

We can play again from where we left of, if you wish. I'm actually not kidding. You would need those moves killing my scout and muddy, since my muddy still needed two hits from your scout. And what would you have done? You couldn't even come close because of my Lward.

Seriously, that game was still undecided.

And about knowing where your scouts would be? I didn't, I just asked because I wondered if you were going to make your setup side-dependant. Which you did.

If I would have adjusted my setup to yours, I wouldn't have placed my furgon to block LOS from the side, instead of from the middle.

Seriously, just face it.

[Office_Shredder]

Wack...LOL! I'm not going to get into a woulda-coulda-shoulda about this. That goes nowhere and forever. I'll just let the screeny speak for itself.

You mean the screenie where the turtle went head to head against the rush? :rolleyes:

[Twelve]

Seriously, just face it.

Bro, only thing I know right now is that arguing with you on a point that is "seemingly" wide open to interpretation is futile because you'll post the last word just to do so(remember, you told me that that's how you debate at times....lol). I guess you win this time around. What a timely disconnect. :bigsmile:

In no way did I feel out of control of that match, nor was it a form depending on sides, though that may be what you think. But, yeah...I guess we'll never know. *rolls eyes*

12

[WaCk-HeAd]

Bro, only thing I know right now is that arguing with you on a point that is "seemingly" wide open to interpretation is futile because you'll post the last word just to do so(remember, you told me that that's how you debate at times....lol). I guess you win this time around. What a timely disconnect. :bigsmile:

In no way did I feel out of control of that match, nor was it a form depending on sides, though that may be what you think. But, yeah...I guess we'll never know. *rolls eyes*

12

I can be very stubborn, yes. But I always admit it when I'm being proven wrong. I just really don't see how the next 5 or so moves could have been different.

I won't take that "timely disconnect" serious, because I shall not be provoked! :)

There is a way to get to find out whether your formation depends on sides or not, and that is by playing again, only diff sides now.

By the way, Don't take it as I'm offended or anything. I know I come across this way, sometimes.

I just really don't see how that game was already decided.

[Twelve]

I won't take that "timely disconnect" serious, because I shall not be provoked! :)



Yeah, and don't be accusing me of trying to insult you again. That'll simply never happen.

12

[WaCk-HeAd]

Yeah, and don't be accusing me of trying to insult you again. That'll simply never happen again.

12

Ok.Yes, I said I wouldn't post anymore, but I couldn't resist.

[Twelve]

Ya over-sensitive chump. ;)


12

[Nova]

Don't feel like reading all the posts... in my opinion the muddy is the only thing rushers have left... take that away and there wouldnt be much of a rush... i think its perfectly fine the way it is... also turtlers should be able to freeze the mud and block up the LOS (did that in my game today)... so i think the mud's a well balanced unit... and if made less of a threat would practically end rushing all together...

EDIT: Turtles can also be set up to keep muds far enough away from cleric so they cant be hit by scout and killed...

[Lonely Tylenol]

Well, I haven't lost to a turtle with my rush yet since the new rules arrived.

...

I do believe the status-quo won't necessarily be changed by the weakening of the GA, especially since it was the Mud Quake follow-up that made it deadly in the first place.

Should something be done about it? Probably not. Perhaps give the Mud Quake the same disapproval as the Golem Ambusher, but like the Ambusher I believe it has tactical advantages as well.

[Office_Shredder]

Let's keep in mind that bottle's also the one that brags about not losing to rushes with his rush. At some point you just have to accept that the people aren't going to beat him no matter WHAT they use

[Bottle]

Antis aren't turtles, LT. :)

Antis can still beat me if they're used well.

[Forest_Archer]

I think that the mudquake is fair. We the turtlers are spoiled and reducing the mudquake would just be unfair to rushers.

[x-useme]

Mudquakes dont do that much damage. Especially if your units are stoned.

[R G]

Don't feel like reading all the posts... in my opinion the muddy is the only thing rushers have left... take that away and there wouldnt be much of a rush... i think its perfectly fine the way it is... also turtlers should be able to freeze the mud and block up the LOS (did that in my game today)... so i think the mud's a well balanced unit... and if made less of a threat would practically end rushing all together...

EDIT: Turtles can also be set up to keep muds far enough away from cleric so they cant be hit by scout and killed...


Well I think that was Bottle's whole point...hardcore turtlers want to make rushing completely useless. Seems like a whole scheme here.

First Twelve gets Seed to cave in and make new rules for the GA, the wait in first turn, and weakened wisp...

Next someone else(Bottle) suggests to get rid of the muddy...then the extra scout will be next(look at the words under Bottle's name - 2 scouts = bad)

Only problem is not many people are jumping in on this bandwagon like they did Twelve's bandwagon.

Bottle I suggest that you follow Twelves method of how he got things changed....which really was brilliant.

-Ask for people not to put opposition in your thread
-Make it seem as though as if anyone is in favor of the muddy to be a noob - or to be some masterful player if they don't use a muddy
-Last but not least ask people(people just love to sign petitions - really don't matter for what) to sign a petition and write a big letter to Seed to show your support for you idea

Your try this time looks as though as if it has failed, but bring it back up in a few months.

Hope that helps...

Hope that helps....

[Office_Shredder]

Well I think that was Bottle's whole point...hardcore turtlers want to make rushing completely useless. Seems like a whole scheme here.

First Twelve gets Seed to cave in and make new rules for the GA, the wait in first turn, and weakened wisp...

Next someone else(Bottle) suggests to get rid of the muddy...then the extra scout will be next(look at the words under Bottle's name - 2 scouts = bad)

Only problem is not many people are jumping in on this bandwagon like they did Twelve's bandwagon.

Bottle I suggest that you follow Twelves method of how he got things changed....which really was brilliant.

-Ask for people not to put opposition in your thread
-Make it seem as though as if anyone is in favor of the muddy to be a noob - or to be some masterful player if they don't use a muddy
-Last but not least ask people(people just love to sign petitions - really don't matter for what) to sign a petition and write a big letter to Seed to show your support for you idea

Your try this time looks as though as if it has failed, but bring it back up in a few months.

Hope that helps...

Hope that helps....

RG, Twelve's idea worked because people had been complaining about the GA nonstop since it came out.

[R G]

OS,

You ignore the way he went about it. It was textbook manipulation of the populous...BRILLIANT I SAY!!!

[Lonely Tylenol]

Antis aren't turtles, LT. :)

Antis can still beat me if they're used well.

If you say so...But a formation with only 4 attackers in a back-rank stone cluster isn't an anti...

[bludhoundz]

12 and wack, I've seen this kind of discussion about the aftermath of unfinished games too many times before, and there's never been a conclusion. There are always 2 opinions when the game is that close.

Thus, wack, you don't have to defend your d/c so vigorously to maintain your ego, and 12 you don't have to stroke yours telling wack that you "had the game." :p

Thank you for your time :D

[Jeffery]

Kid gets some pink name, and think he knows it all now...... :rollseyes:

[Cuathon]

i agree with bottle about not enough games. im the only member that was 1600 at the last ranking who has played a game on army, except the big kahuna because me and manonfire101 were being really annoying to him. its too hard to find games, some days i get a few, but others i can sit there for hours and not get one, a couple people even told me i was too good and they didnt wanna lose stats, its ridiculous. i pay my 20 a month for my 4 golds and i payed 50 for my 3 on legends, i want a game! this mostly applies to banff and GL.

[Bottle]

Kid gets some pink name, and think he knows it all now...... :rollseyes:
It'll last a few days, then he'll go back to being normal old blud again. :)

[bludhoundz]

It'll last a few days, then he'll go back to being normal old blud again. :)
Actually, I always thought 12 and wack argued over silly things, I just didn't voice it before.

Oh, and I'm still me.

[WaCk-HeAd]

Actually, I always thought 12 and wack argued over silly things, I just didn't voice it before.

Oh, and I'm still me.

Boo hoo.

Really, we just keep fighting over petty things, because he always lies :bigsmile:

[Twelve]

12 and wack, I've seen this kind of discussion about the aftermath of unfinished games too many times before, and there's never been a conclusion. There are always 2 opinions when the game is that close.

Thus, wack, you don't have to defend your d/c so vigorously to maintain your ego, and 12 you don't have to stroke yours telling wack that you "had the game." :p

Thank you for your time :D

Blud, hehe.

As if.

12