Thoughts on Feedback

[kegsworth]

Even if he were unbanned, he may never come back, but at least the choice would be his, not sergiy's.

I'd rather see 12 say he's not coming back, than for sergiy to force that decision upon him.

[ReTodd]

RG has a legitimate point. 12 wasnt banned from the game, just the forums. His leaving was about in his eyes unjust punishment. Therefore he wont come back just because he is unbanned. He feels his ban was unwarranted in the first place.

Twelve may not be here now but that does not mean he will not return. Has it occured to you he may be busy with life outside of TAO? I can think of several examples of players and administrators leaving to return later. I left a little while ago to enjoy a chicken sandwich. You really shouldn't jump to any conclusions bnased on assumptions. 12 along with many others feel his banning was unwarranted.

I was permabanned once. It was a bar called the In Between. I spoke to the owner of the establishment, Basher, and was unbanned a few weeks later because as it turned out the banning was not justified. The bouncer who banned me was so upset over the situation he decided to quit. I see many similarities between the two incidents.

[Hatchet Klown]

12's Ban in itself was justified, its the duration is where I agree with many opinions.

There is no questioning that twelve was out of line in that PM. Even after his expectation of privacy, you cannot talk like that to an authoritative figure. Just wont end up well.

[yall are ded]

Hmm I know for a fact that Twelve would come back for at least a little while if he was unbanned. Just wanted to clear that up. ;)

[EatMine]

Sorry, but i disagree.
It doesn't matter whether Twelve wants to come back or not.
The ban was not justifiable in the first place (imho) and thus should be canceled.

[ReTodd]

12's Ban in itself was justified you cannot talk like that to an authoritative figure. Just wont end up well.

1.3 Trolling
Trolling is the act of constantly posting negative comments about TAO and it's members/staff. It is a serious offense. Users that troll will be given a temporary ban. Repeated trolling will incur a permanent ban.

12 did not post his Private Message, Sergiy did. According to the definition of trolling, Sergiy was the one who trolled.

[kegsworth]

I have a feeling Bills will attempt to make the situation right (however shallow it may be).

With all the controversy it started and evidence out in the open, he might just make it right.

[Hatchet Klown]

1.3 Trolling
Trolling is the act of constantly posting negative comments about TAO and it's members/staff. It is a serious offense. Users that troll will be given a temporary ban. Repeated trolling will incur a permanent ban.

12 did not post his Private Message, Sergiy did. According to the definition of trolling, Sergiy was the one who trolled.


Twelve had trolled in the past. His argument to him was trolling by calling his actions immature, and his behavior cavemanish. The fact of "is PM's considered posting a comment to someone privately or not" is open to interpertation.
Even at that, it says a temporary ban will be issued. Which is why I feel his ban should have ended by now.

[LosPollos]

Twelve had trolled in the past. His argument to him was trolling by calling his actions immature, and his behavior cavemanish. The fact of "is PM's considered posting a comment to someone privately or not" is open to interpertation.
Even at that, it says a temporary ban will be issued. Which is why I feel his ban should have ended by now.

Twelves past actions that you refer to, he did not recieve a warning and are therefor irrelivant. That being so, even if you consider him sending the pm as "posting" badly of an admin. thats only one time, its not repeated posting....

[R G]

Here's what I don't get and maybe you guys could explain it to me...In Twelves goodbye post he wrote the following:

I won't go into my reasons for having made the choice to leave the community even before I was banned;

If that is truely the way he feels then what is the point of unbanning him anyway? Is it just symbolic?

I think if he really wants to come back he should appologize for his PM and I feel that it would help to resolve the problem faster....but if he is not interested in coming back then all of this is rather pointless.

Maybe you don't think Twelve should appologize, but sometimes it takes the bigger man to put his foot forward to rectify a situation like this.


PS Los Pollos don't you think you kind of contradict yourself? If he had past actions of Trolling he had more than one time...

[Hatchet Klown]

Los, for it to be repeated, it doesnt have to be warned. Most people tolerated twelves actions due to his past service to the community, and the things he has done for TAO in general.

Again, I DONT condone his permaban. Rather a temp ban (which is already time served)

[LosPollos]

According to the definition, you are supposed to recieve a warning befor a ban of any type

[Hatchet Klown]

You are arguing against the person who makes the definitions. -_-

[ReTodd]

Sergiy by definition trolled when he posted Twelve's private message. Why hasn't this been addressed by changing the definition of trolling or by giving sergiy a ban?

[LosPollos]

You are arguing against the person who makes the definitions. -_-
Sorry budy, but you don't define forum rules :p

[Hatchet Klown]

Sorry budy, but you don't define forum rules :p

no no no, Sergiy. You are arguing with me, but your arguing against sergiy. :dry:

[LosPollos]

Ok, wording confused me......but i can hardly call it an argument if he never posts a darn thing

And yes, i am arguing against him and his decision

[DOCTOR DEVICE]

Id like to ask a few questions here, hopefully useful to this topic :)

1. We can agree 12 was a functioning, loyal, great member of the TAO community, right? But does that make him exempt from the rules?

2. If 12 HAD trolled in the past, why wasn't it caught? Because he was so famous? If so, TAO must be corrupt :(

3. What would unbanning do persay? Make some people angry, make some people happy? Isn't that kinda whats happening now?

[LosPollos]

Id like to ask a few questions here, hopefully useful to this topic :)

1. We can agree 12 was a functioning, loyal, great member of the TAO community, right? But does that make him exempt from the rules?

2. If 12 HAD trolled in the past, why wasn't it caught? Because he was so famous? If so, TAO must be corrupt :(

3. What would unbanning do persay? Make some people angry, make some people happy? Isn't that kinda whats happening now?

1. No, it doesn't....i do believe that he deserved a warning as to what he was doing was trolling(which is the 1st step of 3 that the definition/rules say will take place).
2. TAO is corrupt for multiple reasons.....but to put it into basic logic, it's corrupt because imperfect being can't creat perfection, therefor anything somone does will be considered corrupt by atleast one person
3. It's not necesarily about making people happy, its about doing what is right. Perma banning him was not right, therefor should be corrected. I think that unbanning him would make a lot more people happy than angry, unlike the current course where the banning made more people angry than happy.

[Bottle]

1. We can agree 12 was a functioning, loyal, great member of the TAO community, right? But does that make him exempt from the rules?
No, he should be punished fairly if he breaks the rules. The rules state that the punishment for a first-time offense is not a permanent ban.

2. If 12 HAD trolled in the past, why wasn't it caught? Because he was so famous? If so, TAO must be corrupt :(
12 hasn't trolled in the past, unless you follow uniq's definition, in which case 90% of the TAO forums has trolled at one time or another.

3. What would unbanning do persay? Make some people angry, make some people happy? Isn't that kinda whats happening now?
No. It would be seen as the correct punishment being applied to the situation and would make nobody but sergiy angry.

[Jeffery]

You;re all smoking Crack if you think Bills gives a damn about any of you or anything you have to say.

The issue is settled as far as he is concerned. He won the second everyone babied up and let it drop initially.

[serg]

His perm ban was replaced with 1 month ban starting from now.

Don't start bargain about the term or it will be switched back.

[Moose]

Wow...we won? Kinda?

Heh, it only took a couple of weeks.

POWER TO THE PEOPLE!

[Office_Shredder]

When two groups reach a compromise, everyone's a winner.

Except Tiny Tim. That kid's just a loser

[Wizzy`]

Wow...we won? Kinda?

Heh, it only took a couple of weeks.

POWER TO THE PEOPLE!


He said dont say anything about it..

[yall are ded]

Yay!

[Moose]

He said dont say anything about it..

He said don't bargain for a shorter ban, which i'm obviously not doing.

I'm expressing delight that 12 will be back.

[Wolfman]

***wolf cant say no more for the time being.
***claps.

wolfy

[Hatchet Klown]

Good call sergiy, good call!

And who said that this situation would never be resolved?

[yall are ded]

I vote YES!

[ExpectDeath]

Nice decision Sergiy.

A little late, but what can 'yah do...

[Spirit_Monger]

Thanks for doing what is right, even if it was a little late, sergiy.

[Hatchet Klown]

Hopefully since sergiy made the decision, not Bills over-riding sergiy, 12 will decide to return. Id be happy to have him back!

[Bottle]

I think the whole community will respect you for realising that you went over the top slightly, sergiy. Props.

Now this matters is resolved... other matters can be turned to.

[TheSilverRider]

Great discision sergiy. Props.

[yall are ded]

*Plays old survivor organ music*
Farwell bottle:(

[Glamdring]

Before anyone gets uppity... it was I who banned Bottle, and it was per his request. I'll post this in the band thread, too.

[Wolfman]

it was I who banned Bottle
so this 12 thingy is a one for one thing deal huh?

12 comes back n Bot is taking his place?!

Gee.... take me if it pleases u glam!

:( :P

wolfy

[Moose]

so this 12 thingy is a one for one thing deal huh?

12 comes back n Bot is taking his place?!

Gee.... take me if it pleases u glam!

:( :P

wolfy

I guess it's time to change your sig wolfy ;).

[DOCTOR DEVICE]

Im happy the right decision was made... But may I inquire the change of heart? *adds sergiy to cool people list*

[Spirit_Monger]

If Bot had to be exchanged for 12 to be unbanned, I don't feel that a good decision was completely made. 12 should have never been perma-banned in the first place. ;)

[Hatchet Klown]

BOTT WASNT EXCHANGED!!!

He just decided to leave...

[Spirit_Monger]

BOTT WASNT EXCHANGED!!!

He just decided to leave...

>.<

My bad. I guess I'm still confused about this. :(

[kegsworth]

We'll just have to trust that things will work-out, we can't do much more at this point. It's all history.

[Northwind]

His perm ban was replaced with 1 month ban starting from now.

Don't start bargain about the term or it will be switched back.
Am I the only one who feels unsatisfied by this?

First Sergiy violates the stated rules of the forum and bans 12 for "trolling" when that clearly was not remotely what 12 did.

Then Sergiy effectively disappears for weeks, being largely unwilling to justify his actions or even explain his thinking.

Then he pops back up and states that 12 is un-perma-banned, but is banned for an additional month from this point.

Then he pulls a little power play threatening to reinstate the permanent ban should anyone question his thinking.

I'm sorry, but this is pathetic. Sergiy, I think an apology to the community is in order and you need to actually look at your contribution to this whole ridiculous mess.

Not that you're likely to listen to me, but I thought it reasonable to clarify where some of the community still stands on this.

[Learz]

serg*y is around the bottem of my list right about now.
He posts a pm to the public.
Then bans 12 when people side against him (serg*y).
Then hides.
Then comes back when people refuse to let it die.
Then gives 12 a four-week ban on top of the three weeks he's already been banned.
Then tells people to not argue or he'll overstep his bounds as an admin... again.

What a great guy. The other forums don't know what they are missing.

I'm not arguing, or barganing. What's the point in reasoning? All it'll do is get me a ban.

But then again, who cares? It's not like I'm mad if someone wants to play god.
I bet that will get me a ban. Unless stating my opinion is suddenly against the rules like sending pm's are.


Edit: lol northy.

[Excaliber]

Am I the only one who feels unsatisfied by this?

First Sergiy violates the stated rules of the forum and bans 12 for "trolling" when that clearly was not remotely what 12 did.

Then Sergiy effectively disappears for weeks, being largely unwilling to justify his actions or even explain his thinking.

Then he pops back up and states that 12 is un-perma-banned, but is banned for an additional month from this point.

Then he pulls a little power play threatening to reinstate the permanent ban should anyone question his thinking.

I'm sorry, but this is pathetic. Sergiy, I think an apology to the community is in order and you need to actually look at your contribution to this whole ridiculous mess.

Not that you're likely to listen to me, but I thought it reasonable to clarify where some of the community still stands on this.

Segiy is an Administrator here. He was the power to ban anyone he wants.

People need to get over it.... don't piss off the staff and you don't get banned...

[kegsworth]

Segiy is an Administrator here. He was the power to ban anyone he wants.

People need to get over it.... don't piss off the staff and you don't get banned...

I like you bro, but I have a feeling your going to get . . . negged. There, I said it.

[Northwind]

Segiy is an Administrator here. He was the power to ban anyone he wants.

People need to get over it.... don't piss off the staff and you don't get banned...
You've missed my point Ex. OBVIOUSLY he has the power to ban people. The question is whether or not he made the right decision and whether or not he should apologize.

Might does not make right. And I'll "get over it" when Sergiy accepts responsiblity for his actions.

[Excaliber]

I like you bro, but I have a feeling your going to get . . . negged. There, I said it.

lol I am just tired of people thinking that they can piss of the staff and get away with it... I am not saying that Twelve should have been bannd or anything(I disagree with his leave of absence) but no matter if you troll or not if you get the staff mad enough at you they will ban you..

You've missed my point Ex. OBVIOUSLY he has the power to ban people. The question is whether or not he made the right decision and whether or not he should apologize.

Might does not make right. And I'll "get over it" when Sergiy accepts responsiblity for his actions.
I see your point and I agree with you on how you think Sergiy's reasons are for his decisions may not be good.
I just have to say that I highly doubt that Sergiy will appologize for his actions in banning anyone because frankly that is what he is here to do.. and even though most people think that his actions should noto have been made he is still an Admin and dosen't have to take orders from mebers...

I agree with you though Northy

[green97sierra]

north, i too feel it to be, lackluster at best. but, as O_S stated earlier in this thread, there has been a compromise. not qute the t-bone we were lookin' for, but at least we got a cheeseburger. all we can do now is throw our own condiments on the 'burger to make it taste that much better

[DOCTOR DEVICE]

Look, while the way the way there was... lets say messy. I do believe we can all agree on the conclusion, instead of arguing over the past, look forward to the future, what good does it do to say he SHOULD have done this?

[Aro23r]

That's quite an analogy...

[meat.eater]

He obviously doesnt want to unban 12, but he is doing it BECAUSE the community asked him and showed him thier concern.

Is it ever enough? Now he not only has to correct his wrong, but he has to apologise for it too? Jesus christ, be grateful.

Sorry for the harshness, NW, but what I think is rediculous would be your post.

He's not going to apologise, because thats not how he feels about it. But he changed it anyways, because thats what his community wanted, and brought up. To me, that shows one hell of a guy with awareness. And I applaude him for it.

You cant say he has to change his stance on it. He did what you asked.

EDIT: And he wasnt absent for 2 weeks, he was talking to Bills, myself, Bottle, anyone who dsired to PM him. He was nto being public, you're right. And I think that was a good decision too. Nobody likes being attacked.

It's now OFFICIALLY time to leave it alone.

[DOCTOR DEVICE]

Meat, i agree with almost all you said, except the last sentence. If you wish to divulge yourself from this topic, do so. Others (not I) who wish to continue arguing over this should be free to do so.

[meat.eater]

You're trying to post exactly like Bottle now - just with a different stance.
You say you dislike him or disagree with him, but you have totally took after his way of posting.
How hypocritical.

There is nothing more to argue about.

I dont see how you can even disagree with my statement.

[DOCTOR DEVICE]

I said I agreed with all of your statement except the bottom line, now clearly there is something to argue about (not that I will) because you and northwind have different stances on Sergiy, and so does TAO, there is something to argue about, petty as it may be. And who are You to tell someone that they can't disagree with your statement? Again: Who are you to tell someone that they cant argue over something that clearly isn't resolved? (yours and Northwinds, and others disagreements)

And as for the Bottle comment: :huh:

[meat.eater]

EDIT: Bah.

[DOCTOR DEVICE]

What words am I using identical to Bottles? I do not aspire to be Bottle, I aspire to be myself, if me and Bottle have similiarities in our posts... So be it

[Aro23r]

Stop.

Right now.

[meat.eater]

Just know that trying to better someone to your image, one day, will get you exiled from people who you think care about you.

[serg]

If you are going to continue "constantly posting negative comments about TAO and it's members/staff" it will be taken as trolling (you were warned, right?).
Everybody already had a chance to express their opinions. It is time to stop.