Thoughts on Feedback

[Bills]

I have seen a lot of people talking about the threat of mass account cancellation as a method of being heard on TAO.

I am just letting you all know there are other more effective ways to get the point across. For example recently we added Gold drops and the majority of our forum users requested we change the drops back, and soon after we did.

It's a natural reaction to think anyone running a company which needs to make money to support its staff, costs and make profit is naturally evil by nature. I don't think this is the case with us or TAO.

In the last year we have added so many features to the site and game it's not even comparable to what we started with. We were able to do this by reading and acting on your feedback.

The support for the game has gone up, the interactive features on the site have increased and the game has continued to develop. We did all this without raising the cost or other money making schemes. We did add banners to the site but that was something we had taken out so really it was nothing new, and recently we switched a lot of our inventory to the less bothersome goggle ad types.

We are all on the same team in this, we take all constructive feedback into consideration when we plan changes to TAO, and expand TAO.

But it's hard to plan and expand features under threats, trolling and factless flaming.

The point of this post is not to convince people from creating mass account cancellation threads and rallies.

The point of this post is to let users that do leave feedback for us, that we are listening and their contributions are the ones that are helping us making TAO a better game.

Anyhow... my money counter jammed I gotta go fix it :P

[banditto]

Haha, class mate but you also have to understand we like the TAO the way it was, simple, yet so god damn complicated >.<

I think one of the other main problems that no one has the guts to admit, is Sergiy. Yeah he was a good guy, might still be, thoughI havn't talked to him in a while, with his ways using his power to ban those against him he drew alot dislike. I guess this is our way of sticking it to the man.

[yall are ded]

We respectfully feel, that Twelve a kind strong diligent leader was blatently banned.

That is all.

[ck1]

Last time people complained, there were mass bannings. So now, we take action.

Dont be scurred, Bills. I mean, you must have ENOUGH money. ;)

[yall are ded]

Be a little more respectful to autority then ck1...Maby that is a good aproach after all.

[TheSilverRider]

Last time people complained, there were mass bannings. So now, we take action.

Dont be scurred, Bills. I mean, you must have ENOUGH money. ;)

That would probably be why not so many people are complaining.


Keep it real.

[ck1]

That would probably be why not so many people are complaining.


Keep it real.


People are still complaining...Read Jefferys thread.

Noob -_-

[HeadHunter343]

From what i know, which isn't much, i'm the only one who cancelled...but that was for other reasons also. I realize that all of TAO is very helpful and open minded, for the most part. And I think you guy were doing an excellent job. That is of course until recently. Yeah i'm gonna say it....I hate the update :P But I'm only one man.

[Bills]

We respectfully feel, that Twelve a kind strong diligent leader was blatently banned.

That is all.


My post was not a reaction to 1 event, it's just general ramblings about the entire feedback system.

I want to get into a system of good feedback, not just straight to flaming and negative postings.

Ideally it would be nice to see posts like...

That last change you guys made was no good, here's why, and note me name among any other to change it back.

We want this change to tao because it will make it alot better for these reasons, get coding Canadain scum!

_______________________

Stuff like that, not...

OMG LOL)Z im going to can43ll my account fux0rs jou!#

[Bottle]

Aha, now Bills is starting to worry about something really important... people cancelling golds. :p

That said, that's a good post, Bills. Unfortunately, too many people are too angry now and since they feel they can't even PM an admin about it now without risking a ban (I wonder where that idea came from?), you're not going to get people doing it the way it always has been done.

Put quite simply, all this recent forum emnity could all be solved in a simple way: sergiy apologises for posting Twelve's PRIVATE message in public and removes the ban. And then, you can restate the rules that trolling includes PMs and reps, and people will know to be careful with PMs.

I appreciate that this might be seen as the admins "losing power" to the community, but actually, I think most will see sergiy as being a better man for recognising that banning 12 was wrong.

Anyway, the admins are here to improve the gaming experience for players, correct? Not to show that they have absolute power?

[TheSilverRider]

People are still complaining...Read Jefferys thread.

Noob -_-

I meant about Twelves banning.:dry:

[ck1]

un-ban everyone that was banned..maybe people would shut up :p



I meant about Twelves banning.:dry:


This thread is not about 12's banning.

[x-useme]

Take out the 1 wait turn!

[yall are ded]

Peoples's feelings mixed with emotions are a delicate balance. It seems that there will always be a person who whole heartedly agrees with a change and alwaya someone who will threaten the kill someone if it is not changed back.

Point being. You can't please everyone but if a mass suggests something and it does not seem unreasonable. listen.

Now, there will ALWAYS be flaming and that is sad. what do you suggest?
notice how so far we are being respectful in this thread.:) or were.:dry:

[Bottle]

Actually, Bills, no news is generally good news. If people aren't complaining about a change or improvement, give yourself a pat on the back for it, because it's good.

Now, we want Twelve to be unbanned by sergiy because it'd improve the forum by reducing all these top posters leaving or demodding. Get going, Canadian scum! :)

[HeadHunter343]

Ideally it would be nice to see posts like...

That last change you guys made was no good, here's why, and note me name among any other to change it back.

We want this change to tao because it will make it alot better for these reasons, get coding Canadain scum!


I did it right :p except for the whole canadian scum thing...i mean i hate canadians don't get me wrong but isn't seed canadian? anyways BLAME CANADA

GO CANADIAN BACON!

[battle composed]

Anyhow... my money counter jammed I gotta go fix it.

There's something obscenely wrong about this sentence.

[ReTodd]

I feel that Sergiy's thread was inappropriate and hope that it did not represent the feelings of TAO corp. Please see to it that the problems created by his thread are rectified and I will stop trolling as zfilter. I will not post as zfilter either way. I just thought that since he has so many posts, he should get one on the TAO forums as well.

[Bills]

Oh ya the money country thing.. I have a really dry sense of humor hehe

About bannings,

Sergiy has been in charge of TAO for over a year now, and I think almost everyone can agree your tickets, these forums and the changes he has made have all made this a good place to chat with friends about TAO and other things.

Sergiy in this time has banned hundreds of people. Hundreds of spammers, trolls, script kiddies and all sorts of net trash that would have made this a crap place to spend time at.

If 99 percent of the people he banned deserved it, then even at that overwhelming success rate a few people pissed him off on the wrong day or said the wrong thing at the wrong time.

I think Sergiy has a 99 percent batting average. Which means if he thinks he banned someone for a wrong reasons he will change the banning, but I don't expect him to do so under threats or harassment.

I think people need to give feedback that he can use, to simply turn your back on an admin after 1 call you might not like undermines the hundreds of good calls he made, and believe me Sergiy goes out of his way to help people on TAO.

[yall are ded]

In fact I feel that alot of threads are not prompted for constructive critisism and feedback. May it be from an arogant n00b, An expirienced forum member, or TAO authority.

That said the forums are a fun place and are a great place to hang out when I am bored.:) I am not afraid to take on a flamer. They will ALWAYS be there. I just deal with it.

Edit: that is true bills and I think the other 3 people that got banned deserved it. They took the wrong approach. That in fact does not help :/

[ck1]

If 99 percent of the people he banned deserved it, then even at that overwhelming success rate a few people pissed him off on the wrong day or said the wrong thing at the wrong time.


We're not saying unban everyone, we're saying unban the people that didnt deserve it:

Twelve
Wizzy`
Marijuana
Sluff(dunno what he did, actually..)
GreenSamurai(All though, he might have deserved it. . .)

[yall are ded]

Careful what you wish for ck1...

[Merdoc.]

Unban 12, do it, just do it. Make the people of the community happy.

[Pieface1337]

Anyhow... my money counter jammed I gotta go fix it :P

..um..haha.. ;)

Don't you just hate it when that money counter gets jammed? It never seems to work!

[TheSilverRider]

We're not saying unban everyone, we're saying unban the people that didnt deserve it:

Twelve
Wizzy`
Marijuana
Sluff(dunno what he did, actually..)
GreenSamurai(All though, he might have deserved it. . .)

I would say that those are importance order correct? At least to me they are.

Keep it real.

[Jeffery]

Bills, the only person here who turned there backs on someone due to one bad call was Sergiy.
Someone PMed him their private opinion of a situation, And good old sergiy dragged it into the forums, and when people reacted badly to his attempt to humiliate a long standing member, he banned him.

There are MANY more poeple, including Twelve, who have spent more time and effort on TAO that your paid employee. (gee, imagine an employee being forced to deal with customers). You compare Sergiy to a person "batting" 99 out of a 100/ Look at it more like a cop arresting people. Sure, he got 99 criminals off the street. But that one innocent he beat the crap out of and threw in jail is SILL INNOCENT.
Sergiys actions caused much more than a few people to cancel their accounts. It lead to 2 respected mods to step down in disgust, and a slew of members to beasically write off the community that Sergiy attacked.

I agree, people threatening to cancel their accounts is foolish. Threats like that rarely work, because those willing to give up accounts and leave have usually done so long before a threat can be made.

Threats do not work, but to sit and be afraid that any negative comment made, even in private, will result in being banned is just as bad. TAO Administration has threatened every single person in the community that if they speak up, they will be banned. What a great way to ask for peopel to communicate with you.

BTW, CK1, these people DID deserve their bannings:
Wizzy`
Marijuana
Sluff
GreenSamura

[yall are ded]

The last four I belive are actually worthy of the ban trolling...though this is not what the thread is about. I would rather this not become what the other 4 arguement threads became. Please refrain from flaming...

Edit: (lol 3 edits in a row) Jeff said it well.;)

[TheSilverRider]

It lead to 2 respected mods to step down in disgust

Did Aro step down or did he get de-modded by sergiy. To my knowledge he was de-modded. If so, then i believe that he should be awarded his moddership back along with Twelve's unbanning. Just my thoughts.

Keep it real.

[Jeffery]

Did Aro step down or did he get de-modded by sergiy. To my knowledge he was de-modded. If so, then i believe that he should be awarded his moddership back along with Twelve's unbanning. Just my thoughts.

Keep it real.
Aro reclosed a thread that should not have been made, after Sergiy warned him not to. His actions ended up in his being de-modded, but he took those actions KNOWING what would happen. It was a choice he made, in much the same way Hugh has made his.

[Bottle]

About bannings,

Sergiy has been in charge of TAO for over a year now, and I think almost everyone can agree your tickets, these forums and the changes he has made have all made this a good place to chat with friends about TAO and other things.

Sergiy in this time has banned hundreds of people. Hundreds of spammers, trolls, script kiddies and all sorts of net trash that would have made this a crap place to spend time at.
Fully agreed.

I think Sergiy has a 99 percent batting average. Which means if he thinks he banned someone for a wrong reasons he will change the banning, but I don't expect him to do so under threats or harassment.
Yes. But what happens when sergiy feels he is right, and almost the entire rest of the community, many of whom have stuck up for the administrators in tough situations before, say that he was wrong? Do you trust the admin, or the community?

I think people need to give feedback that he can use, to simply turn your back on an admin after 1 call you might not like undermines the hundreds of good calls he made, and believe me Sergiy goes out of his way to help people on TAO.
If a leader makes 99 good calls and 1 bad one, he should still have to answer for the bad one. Again, all he needs to do is realise that what Twelve did was not a bannable offence, and remove the ban. Afterwards, you can make it clear that sending a PM to an admin saying that you disagree with them is classed as trolling if you deem it necessary (although the purpose of introducing the trolling law was primarily to prevent a thread from making other forum members go against the admin team, which a PM does not do). But first sergiy needs to accept that he made a mistake and put it right, which is his duty to the community now.

The decision was completely unnecessary in the first place, other than to satisfy sergiy. The PM caused no damage to the community... just sergiy's pride. When a ban is the response, people getting angry is inevitable.

Aro should also be reinstated, although that may not now be possible, as it would cause friction in the mod/admin team. He was doing his job of closing bad threads.

[TheSilverRider]

Aro reclosed a thread that should not have been made, after Sergiy warned him not to. His actions ended up in his being de-modded, but he took those actions KNOWING what would happen. It was a choice he made, in much the same way Hugh has made his.

So by saying that two mods stepped down "in disgust" you mean that Hugh by making this thread and obviously choosing to step down, and Aro by doing something he was told not to by Sergiy so basically in the same sense intentionally stepping down. Ok if thats what you are saying i fully agree. Thank you so much for your clerification.

Keep it real.

[ck1]

BTW, CK1, these people DID deserve their bannings:
Wizzy`
Marijuana
Sluff
GreenSamura


Explain to me why.

[Bottle]

The others did deserve their ban. They all called sergiy an idiot IN PUBLIC. That is trolling.

[ck1]

The others did deserve their ban. They all called sergiy an idiot IN PUBLIC. That is trolling.


So did everyone else. But whatever.

[Swift]

No he didn't. A few on that list asked to be banned, and outright swore at the admin. Twelve acted quite civil IMO.

[yall are ded]

they did it repeatedly. That fills 75% of the quota for trolling. Twelve filled 0% to my knowledge in the fact that he pmed NOT posted and it was not repeated.

[Jeffery]

Explain to me why.
Because they used language that was inappropriate and made public attacks against an admin. They did not disagree with his actions, but attacked him personally in public. There is a big difference there, and many more people have been banned for such over the years.

[R G]

Bills, the only person here who turned there backs on someone due to one bad call was Sergiy.
Someone PMed him their private opinion of a situation, And good old sergiy dragged it into the forums, and when people reacted badly to his attempt to humiliate a long standing member, he banned him.

There are MANY more poeple, including Twelve, who have spent more time and effort on TAO that your paid employee. (gee, imagine an employee being forced to deal with customers). You compare Sergiy to a person "batting" 99 out of a 100/ Look at it more like a cop arresting people. Sure, he got 99 criminals off the street. But that one innocent he beat the crap out of and threw in jail is SILL INNOCENT.
Sergiys actions caused much more than a few people to cancel their accounts. It lead to 2 respected mods to step down in disgust, and a slew of members to beasically write off the community that Sergiy attacked.

I agree, people threatening to cancel their accounts is foolish. Threats like that rarely work, because those willing to give up accounts and leave have usually done so long before a threat can be made.

Threats do not work, but to sit and be afraid that any negative comment made, even in private, will result in being banned is just as bad. TAO Administration has threatened every single person in the community that if they speak up, they will be banned. What a great way to ask for peopel to communicate with you.

BTW, CK1, these people DID deserve their bannings:
Wizzy`
Marijuana
Sluff
GreenSamura


Bills is clearly asking for people to give suggestions on how to improve the game...not for people to question the decisions after they have been made....don't cloud the issue.

[TheSilverRider]

The others did deserve their ban. They all called sergiy an idiot IN PUBLIC. That is trolling.

The only reason Twelve should be unbanned is because he dealt with the situation PRIVATELY until sergiy decided to make it public. The others made no attempt to deal with it privately and were dealt the concequences (trolling as bottle stated). So for this reason we are asking that Twelve be unbanned becuase he dealt with the matter to the best of his knowledge in PRIVATE until sergiy made it public. Thank you for your time.

Keep it real.

[Jeffery]

Proper administration of the game and forums ALWAYS improves the game and community in and of itself. RG, please don;t take your hatred of me out on the rest here. You will lose as always.

[Bottle]

IRT ck1 (post slower guys): No. Twelve did it via PM. Aro did his job and closed a bad thread, and got demodded. Those were the unfair decisions.

Heck, Bills, even those who are losing their gold accounts because Jeff's not doing the mail-in payments any more support the general "sergiy was wrong" movement:

You're doing a good thing, Jeff, if you believe that they shouldn't recieve all this money. And I sincerely thank you for paying for the account for the time that you have.

[:-)]

Yes, it is true, I think serigy did go a little to harsh... But something else was harsher, when twelve got banned and hugh left modding, that was a sign of something bad. Somebody has to fix it.

[yall are ded]

You are turning wise silver. I put that clan in good hands I believe.:)

[Bottle]

Actually, Bills, you're looking at something unusual here. The community is almost 100% united in their belief that Twelve's ban and Aro's demodding was unfair. You don't normally get that.

Like you yourself said, you're trying to make the game experience better for the players. Make it better for us. Reinstate Aro and unban Twelve.

[yall are ded]

Notice this thread is void of threats. and to bots post.
WORD.

[TheSilverRider]

Actually, Bills, you're looking at something unusual here. The community is almost 100% united in their belief that Twelve's ban and Aro's demodding was unfair. You don't normally get that.

Like you yourself said, you're trying to make the game experience better for the players. Make it better for us. Reinstate Aro and unban Twelve.

Should i start a poll on GD? I would be glad to see what the general thoughts are of the entire forum. Instead of having everyone post a "yes" or a "no" in this thread i will gladly make a poll that has 4 options:

1. Reinstate Aro and bring back Twelve
2. Reinstate Aro and leave Twelve banned
3. Do not reinstate Aro and bring back Twelve
4. Do not reinstate Aro and leave Twelve banned

Should i do that? I would be more than happy to.

Keep it real.

[:-)]

Actually, Bills, you're looking at something unusual here. The community is almost 100% united in their belief that Twelve's ban and Aro's demodding was unfair. You don't normally get that.

Like you yourself said, you're trying to make the game experience better for the players. Make it better for us. Reinstate Aro and unban Twelve.

Bottle is right, if you look at it this way, this is just a big understanding. Have you ever thought why aro did what he did? did you ever think why twelve was trolling. Serigy is a nive guy but he's setting a bad example for us and making some players mad.

This is not right, something has to change.

[Bottle]

Should i start a poll on GD? I would be glad to see what the general thoughts are of the entire forum. Instead of having everyone post a "yes" or a "no" in this thread i will gladly make a poll that has 4 options:

1. Reinstate Aro and bring back Twelve
2. Reinstate Aro and leave Twelve banned
3. Do not reinstate Aro and bring back Twelve
4. Do not reinstate Aro and leave Twelve banned

Should i do that? I would be more than happy to.

Keep it real.
No, there's no need for the 4 options. The two matters go hand in hand. If 12 did not deserve a ban, Aro was within his rights to close the thread. Otherwise, he was not. Simple as that.

Anyway, I think the forum opinion is quite evident without a poll.

[bludhoundz]

I don't think the banning of 12 was right, but people are still making it sound like he was completely in the right.

He wasn't. He took the moderator decisions way too emotionally. Yeah, I'm one of them, so this definitely sounds biased, but thats what I think.

Despite my opinion on this, I agree with the community, I think the 12 should be unbanned and that Aro should be reinstated.

[TheSilverRider]

So i have left the question open for almost a half hour and i only got a "no". If i do not get at least 2 "yes" i will not post the poll on GD. Thanx so much for anyone else's further input. I will leave the question open until tomorrow. Thanx again for your time.

Keep it real.

[Jeffery]

I don't think the banning of 12 was right, but people are still making it sound like he was completely in the right.

He wasn't. He took the moderator decisions way too emotionally. Yeah, I'm one of them, so this definitely sounds biased, but thats what I think.

Despite my opinion on this, I agree with the community, I think the 12 should be unbanned and that Aro should be reinstated.
Espec ially since Realist just stepped down. Having two mods, one who is almost never on, and the other who rarely does anything, is not exactly looking good.

Silver, I say no also. Why do we need a poll, when the feelings of those here is already evident.

[Mitosis]

I don't think the banning of 12 was right, but people are still making it sound like he was completely in the right.

He wasn't. He took the moderator decisions way too emotionally. Yeah, I'm one of them, so this definitely sounds biased, but thats what I think.

Despite my opinion on this, I agree with the community, I think the 12 should be unbanned and that Aro should be reinstated.


exactly. I know 12 wasn't completely right in what he did, but he didn't do it in public. He sent a PM between himself and Sergiy...no one else. Sergiy then made the PM public to the forum. Then accused him of trolling. I have to disagree with what Sergiy did because it was not right in this case. 12 should be brought back. I fully agree with blud on this.

[yall are ded]

To Silver: no thanks. I believe this thread is good enough.:)

[R G]

Proper administration of the game and forums ALWAYS improves the game and community in and of itself. RG, please don;t take your hatred of me out on the rest here. You will lose as always.


I agree with your statement. If rules are broken then they must be enforced...and the administration are the ones who will enforce the rules...I guess we are in agreement...:confused:

But because you love this so here it is for you.

BLAH BLAH BLAH I hate Jeffery BLAH BLAH BLAH

[Cuathon]

realist is gone two? holy s***! now we have almost zero forum moderator activity.
i agree with the aro/twelve thingy.

[Teacher]

I am no where near the veteran as many of you are, but I have been enjoying TAO for a few months now and just finally getting into the forums. I hope that I am not going to be seen as sticking my nose where it doesn't belong since I have not been involved up until now. I have spent approximately and hour and half reading all of the post so that I would hopefully know what it is I’m talking about and a little bit more of what is going on.
I'm not sure how much my opinion would count with me being new, but my thoughts are this. I have never met anyone of these people that has been banned. So by reading what I have seen, I would have to agree that if a particular player had an issue and chose to keep it in private, then it should have been handled in private. I'm not quite sure what is meant by Aro closed a bad thread. So that I will not make a comment on. I do agree that everything said in here should be in a professional manner, therefore in reference to the other participants that apparently were disrespectful, and ill-mannered, I would assume they got what was warranted.
As far as Bill, you stated that what Sergiy has accomplished in over a year has had good % ratings, but you have to also remember, you can do a hundred things good, but it only takes one bad decision to ruin the good decisions. I have managed a business and can understand that you have to stand by your employees, but I am in hopes that you have at least communicated with him and shared any disagreements you have had with his decision. As I have said this is no way an attack against anyone in particular as I don't really know anyone. I'm going off the feedback that has been left, in hopes that I have an understanding of where the forums stand. I'm in hopes this isn't considered trolling, since I have no idea what that means. lol

[Bottle]

Hmm, I must rep for over 90 points. That guy's got an extra box after 1 post. :)

Teacher, nice post, your analysis is very accurate for someone unfamiliar with the forum. Let me fill you in on a few things: trolling is the term given to a derogatory comment made about an admin on the forum, so you're fine on that point. Aro23r used to be a mod, but got demoted when he closed sergiy's thread "Treated like dogs" because he felt it was a poor thread (and the community agreed, but sergiy did not, amazingly).

Again, congrats on probably the best first post I've seen from any new member of this forum. :)

[TheSilverRider]

Hmm, I must rep for over 90 points. That guy's got an extra box after 1 post. :)

Teacher, nice post, your analysis is very accurate for someone unfamiliar with the forum. Let me fill you in on a few things: trolling is the term given to a derogatory comment made about an admin on the forum, so you're fine on that point. Aro23r used to be a mod, but got demoted when he closed sergiy's thread "Treated like dogs" because he felt it was a poor thread (and the community agreed, but sergiy did not, amazingly).

Again, congrats on probably the best first post I've seen from any new member of this forum. :)

I totally agree with Bot on this. Teacher is probably the best newb i have ever met. That was a great analysis about the situation and a great post to read. Also, just to get you more familiar with him, Twelve was one of the well respected members of the forums and PMed sergiy (administrator) about something he had a problem with. Sergiy decided it was "serious enough" to make public so he posted Twelve's PM in a thread for all to view. This was inappropriate because they are PRIVATE messages after all. Anyway Aro23r (a moderator at the time) closed the thread deeming it "inappropriate". This pissed off sergiy so he demmoded Aro and also around this time (no one knows exactly when) Twelve was banned permanantly from the forums. I hope that this post has helped you gain more light on the situation. Once again i want to congratulate you on doing a great job of reading up and all that. One more thing.....Welcome to the TAO forums! lol

Keep it real.

[yall are ded]

I gave out to much rep.:(

Edit: On my first post I did a 3 paragraph analysis on the DL is gone thread.:) I'm in competition for that award bot.:p

[Bills]

This thread has gone a little off topic, but some things to clear up.

Trolling, and harassment are not limited to public areas. I don't know why any of you would ever think that. If someone is being a pest and breaking the rules over PM, that counts the same as any other part of the forums.

This is just generally speaking, not talking about the problem many of you are talking about. But if someone keeps pming someone in public or in private messages they are still under the same guidelines as everyone else.

Perhaps, Sergiy posted 1 message out of a bunch of messages and that one was the final straw. Perhaps he wanted to send a message to that person and others to clean up their acts when using the pm function. Perhaps people have been ignoring previous warning to drop the subject they were contacting admins about... Perhaps, perhaps perhaps.

No one really knows what is going on, I do think that if everyone tries to calm down from these few bans things will get sorted out.

I mean for up to a year now everyone loved Sergiy and trusted him. Don't you think he will in the end will treat everyone the same as he has over the last year. I'm sure a larger percentage of you have had tickets or problems solved by him.You know he's a pretty level headed guy.

I think a lot will get solved if you let the people involved handle this, ei Sergiy and the people that were banned handle it. I think 9 times out of 10 after a few days people calm down and compromise on things.

Just look at Jeffery, I think I've banned him at least a few times over the years, but he's still here...still taking pot shots at us :P

So in short on this one issue, everyone needs to put down the Red Bull and relax.

[Bottle]

The problem is, Twelve got banned for making ONE PM. He didn't harass sergiy repeatedly, he just PMed his opinion that sergiy should have chosen some other members as mods. If others had also PMed or posted this, and this was "the final straw", they should have been banned too. I think you'll find, if you asked sergiy yourself, that he was just annoyed that 12 didn't agree with him.

Yes, he's done a great job, you'll not find me saying anywhere that he hasn't. THAT DOESN'T GIVE HIM THE RIGHT TO HAVE A MISTAKE IGNORED.

How, exactly, will the matter get resolved if we leave it be? Twelve can't argue his point, because he's banned, and coming back would be a breach of the ban (leading to IP ban). So we're left to do it for him. And sergiy has been deaf to our opinions that he made the wrong decision; in fact, he hasn't even posted on the matter except to make a lame joke about people being immature.

Basically, what you have is a lot of angry people who feel that an admin has made a bad decision, and then shut up shop about the matter. THAT is why you have had a mod resignation, THAT is why Jeff is no longer helping you get an extra $50 a month, THAT is why everyone is getting up in arms on every thread on the topic.

As head admin, you need to step in and decide now, Bills. Talk to sergiy. You've heard our side, now hear his side, and then make a decision about what should be done.

[Lonely Tylenol]

I think a lot will get solved if you let the people involved handle this, ei Sergiy and the people that were banned handle it. I think 9 times out of 10 after a few days people calm down and compromise on things.

Actually, it's been over a week.

In response to the feedback on 12's banning--I honestly don't think 12's ban was fully justified. Not only did he carry out the matter privately until the post by sergiy, but he did not actually insult sergiy, despite his discontent.

However, I think a lot of the aftermath of his banning is smoke and mirrors. Two mods have resigned (Hugh and Realist) and a third was de-modded by force (Aro23r), and many other golds have been cancelled as a result of this. In all actuality, the response to 12's banning has caused more damage to the TAO community than the banning itself, and although I can understand why the ban is considered wrong in its own respect, the response was blown ridiculously out of proportion.

As for my own feedback...

I have a very strong dislike of the new changes to the Golem Ambusher and the Poison Wisp, which eliminate most of their usefulness. The first turn rule, ehh, don't hate so much, but I'm still not a fan.

It is in my opinion that the weakening of the GA and Wisp essentially eliminate an [although it be very unreliable] form of setup, when the Berzerker and maybe the first turn rule would have been more than enough. I think the unit changes were excessive and eliminate the variety in freestyling games.

However, I find myself in a very distinct minority on this one, and since I'm not willing to cancel my accounts over this dispute, I think I can live with it. :)

This in-game text limit outright blows though. I can understand where it would reduce the amount of obnoxious long-message spam, but that's why we have the spamfilter and in-game moderators. Plus, now I can't type any of my long [though substantial] messages.

And Jeffery cancelled payment?! Damn! Must write angry response!

EDIT: Oh, I get it.

Yes, I must concur with bills in that I think these threats, petitions and public demonstrations (but mostly petitions) are an inefficient and disrespectful way of getting things done. If you want changes made, you can use muscle like everyone else. :aggress:

[Bottle]

Agreed with LT on most matters. The ambusher is now far too weak to be used effectively, and wisp is weak even in turtles, but I wouldn't say the changes have made the game worse. I do disagree with the one-line limit. I'd recommend allowing clan chat and in-game mod chat to be as it used to be, and keep chat in the lobby down to 1 line only. I have suggested this in the suggestions forum, but no one seemed to notice. :rolleyes:

[Lonely Tylenol]

Agreed with LT on most matters. The ambusher is now far too weak to be used effectively, and wisp is weak even in turtles, but I wouldn't say the changes have made the game worse. I do disagree with the one-line limit. I'd recommend allowing clan chat and in-game mod chat to be as it used to be, and keep chat in the lobby down to 1 line only. I have suggested this in the suggestions forum, but no one seemed to notice. :rolleyes:

[Now loves Bottle]

And I just noticed that Realist didn't resign in protest. So. My bad. :huh:

[meat.eater]

I have been asked to edit this.

[Bottle]

Here's another point.

I mean for up to a year now everyone loved Sergiy and trusted him. Don't you think he will in the end will treat everyone the same as he has over the last year. I'm sure a larger percentage of you have had tickets or problems solved by him.You know he's a pretty level headed guy.
If you're going to play the "good previous record" card, Bills, I can trump it.

The man who was banned wrote the definitive TAO review (http://www.netjak.com/review.php/548), which has almost certainly attracted several new players to TAO, many of whom have upgraded. He's run the (joint) longest-serving clan almost single-handedly, encouraging people to go gold and support TAO throughout. He's been a calm and cool personality on the forum. He was in the top 3 posters reputation-wise. And most importantly, everyone respected his opinion.

This is the man who was banned for TROLLING. Something seem strange to you here?

The idea of banning "trolls" is to protect and help the forum and admins. All the loss of 12 will do is damage the forum and hasn't helped sergiy at all. He provided more to the forum and game than almost anyone.

[Madars]

Hmm, I must rep for over 90 points. That guy's got an extra box after 1 post. :)


He now has 3 boxes with 1 post....

He's making us look like fools.Get him boyz! :butcher:

-Mad-

[battle composed]

I don't think the banning of 12 was right, but people are still making it sound like he was completely in the right.

He wasn't. He took the moderator decisions way too emotionally. Yeah, I'm one of them, so this definitely sounds biased, but thats what I think.

Despite my opinion on this, I agree with the community, I think the 12 should be unbanned and that Aro should be reinstated.

This and the following posts Bills, Bottle and Teach made sums up the whole situation. Whole. Holy. The crowd needs blood, no, justice.

And I disagree with ck1's idea that the rest other than Twelve are just as undeserving of the ban. Not too sure about marijuana's case since I did not read about the post that got him banned, but the others trolled intentionally after Twelve got his red card. Not to mention Wizzy kept coming back, even though he is under a ban.

I'm not too sure about it, but I think I belong in that dry-humour category too. Maybe I should have added a :p to that last post.

[serg]

Looks like we have here what they call mass hysteria.

Lets clear things up a little with Twelve's case because the majority of those who are complaining here just see what they want to see.

If you try to read the reason why Twelve was banned, you will see this: "trolling and administration offence". I could ban him right after receiving that PM. If you think that you can offence somebody via PM without any punishment you are wrong. Mods and I by myself have got tons of complains from users who received offensive PMs or even rep messages on our forum, and such actions were always punished.

But because I knew that this PM was not from just a regular member, I decided to ask others if they support the points Twelve made in his PM (because he was talking there not only about himself but about the whole community). When I asked him to post his message on the forum he refused it, so I posted it by myself because I had to know either what he said is true and there is a problem with me or false and there is a problem with him. You may say that I shouldn't post his PM. I say that a person shouldn't bring accusations which he is not able to repeat in public (if those are real accusations of course, not just a try to offence somebody).

Again if you try to read what I said in that thread and what other mods said you will see that everything Twelve wrote in his PM was disproved and all his posts there where he was saying that my actions were wrong were considered as trolling.


So, if you ask me again: did he deserve his permanent ban? I would answer: absolutely.

[Hugh Junit]

Again if you try to read what I said in that thread and what other mods said you will see that everything Twelve wrote in his PM was disproved and all his posts there where he was saying that my actions were wrong were considered as trolling.


So, if you ask me again: did he deserve his permanent ban? I would answer: absolutely.

How in the world was Twelve's personal opinion "disproved", sergiy? His opinion was that you insulted several deserving, veteran members by not considering them for modship. Members that applied and were nominated. I said from the beginning that the mod selection process was fair, and that all the mods chosen were nominated by at least one mod.
But that has nothing to do with the fact that many vets were indeed passed over. Vets who expressed interest in the positions. Why can't Twelve tell you that he was upset with the choices? Why couldn't you just tell him that the decisions were made, and that was final? Why not tell him that Realist had no more say than any other mod? Why not explain the mod selection process to him? That's what a person in your position of authority should have done.
After you replied that he was "talking shit", as you put it, and told him to post his PM in the forums, only then did he say you were handling the situation like a "caveman".
Are you seriously saying that if anyone offends you, in any way, that you'll ban them? It's not like Twelve cussed you out, sergiy. He was upset with an administrative decision, and upset with how you handled his complaint.
As far as all of Twelve's posts being "trolling", Twelve was voicing his anger with your choice to publically post his private message. He was right, too, and many people who also posted agreed with him. Myself included. Once again, his opinion that you were wrong to post his PM was not disproved.
Sergiy, the bottom line is the major majority of people on these forums think you were wrong to bring a private matter to the forums. The majority of members also think that you were wrong to permanently ban Twelve for this.
Have you even bothered to notice how many people have agreed that the banning of Twelve was wrong? Read my resignation thread, or the "trolling" thread I made last week.
You've lost 2 mods over this issue, and a third picked today to leave the forums for an undisclosed amount of time. Mods that have worked hard to try and make TAO a better place. I didn't want to resign as moderator. I genuinely liked helping people, and I was helping people every day in here. But I didn't know what else to do, or how else to make you see your mistake. You're the admin here, sergiy. This situation should have been easy to handle, and all this mess should have been easy to avoid.
Many members, new and old, are talking about leaving or quitting because of the drama surrounding this situation. But you still say you were completely right in how you handled it. I honestly don't know how you can say that.

[El Cid]

Again if you try to read what I said in that thread and what other mods said you will see that everything Twelve wrote in his PM was disproved and all his posts there where he was saying that my actions were wrong were considered as trolling.


What I gather from your post is the following:

1. A member of the community PMs a contrary opinion to a forum administrator
2. His or her points are disproved.
3. The member should be banned for trolling.

Now, those points could be summed up to:

If you PM an administrator, and your opinions are disproved, you will be banned for trolling.

Such is the idea that some of the forum members have reacted to. Even if Twelve had completely misinterpreted how the selection of the mods was made (which is understandable, since only the mods can know what really happened), he should not have been banned for the mere happening that he was mistaken.

Trolling, concerns the manner in which the accusations are made, not whether the accusations can be proved or disproved. Sergiy, you tried to make the forum community believe that Twelve's accusations were made in an offensive manner by saying:


When I asked him to repeat his own words in public he called me an immature caveman.


When what Twelve really said was:

Based on your immature way of handling my concerns, and your caveman solution to the problem, I now see why you chose as you did.

That's all I wanted. I wanted to understand. Now I do.

12


So, if you try to read what the community said in that thread and yet others threads created by mods and regular forum members alike, you will see that the words I have quoted from your post were disproved and that we believe that what Twelve was saying should not be considered as trolling.

[meat.eater]

You've lost 2 mods over this issue, and a third picked today to leave the forums for an undisclosed amount of time.

Dont drag Realist into this argument. His temporary leave has NOTHING to do with this.

[Hugh Junit]

Dont drag Realist into this argument. His temporary leave has NOTHING to do with the this.

I didn't say it did, meat. I said that 2 mods were lost over this issue, and stated that another left today for an "undisclosed" period of time.
I thought I was pretty clear on that.

[meat.eater]

If you werent bringing him into this, you wouldnt have mentioned him at all in the midst of this argument. He is as neutral as it gets on this issue, much like I am. I dont mean to be snappy, but I am very tired of all this.

And I would post my opinions, if I wouldnt get booted or piss off people.

[Hatchet Warrior]

You can state anything you want meat. You just have to state in the right way to not be kicked. I agree with what El Cid, Hugh and Bottle have said so far on this entire thing.

[meat.eater]

Ha. I wasnt talking about being "banned", HW.

[Hatchet Warrior]

I didn't directly say anything about being banned. You're the one who said " I'd post my opinions if I didn't get booted or piss anyone off". I was saying if you word it in the right way so you're heard in the correct way you won't be booted. It may piss a few people off, but I doubt they will boot you for what you have to say.

[meat.eater]

I doubt they will boot you for what you have to say.

Why do you think my above post was edited, Hatch?

Anyways. Netjak leaders know how I feel about this. And, as requested, im going to shut up until after this is settled to a point where I see it being settled. If I need to, then, and only then, I will say exactly what was originally on said edited post.

[Hatchet Warrior]

Why do you think my above post was edited, Hatch?

I never got to read your edited post, so I had no idea. This is my bad, but I still pwned you on this one :D

[Hugh Junit]

And I would post my opinions, if I wouldnt get booted or piss off people.

That's the problem, meat. You won't post your opinions, because you're afraid of getting "booted". That's not the way it should be.
I know you're trying hard to please everyone, meat, and not make anyone mad, but your concerns are not the same as mine on this issue.

[Sensai]

Bills, Sergiy. I give you an on-topic post.

Suggestion (http://www.tacticsarena.com/forum/showthread.php?p=725075#post725075)

[Jeffery]

Looks like we have here what they call mass hysteria.

Lets clear things up a little with Twelve's case because the majority of those who are complaining here just see what they want to see.

If you try to read the reason why Twelve was banned, you will see this: "trolling and administration offence". I could ban him right after receiving that PM. If you think that you can offence somebody via PM without any punishment you are wrong. Mods and I by myself have got tons of complains from users who received offensive PMs or even rep messages on our forum, and such actions were always punished.

But because I knew that this PM was not from just a regular member, I decided to ask others if they support the points Twelve made in his PM (because he was talking there not only about himself but about the whole community). When I asked him to post his message on the forum he refused it, so I posted it by myself because I had to know either what he said is true and there is a problem with me or false and there is a problem with him. You may say that I shouldn't post his PM. I say that a person shouldn't bring accusations which he is not able to repeat in public (if those are real accusations of course, not just a try to offence somebody).

Again if you try to read what I said in that thread and what other mods said you will see that everything Twelve wrote in his PM was disproved and all his posts there where he was saying that my actions were wrong were considered as trolling.


So, if you ask me again: did he deserve his permanent ban? I would answer: absolutely.
Yeah, it makes a lot of sense for people to say they agree, just so you could ban them as well.
It was clear from the second you made that thread that you were planning on banning Twelve, especially when people were more upset over YOUR behavior than Twelves. Most people here are afraid of being banned, and like Meat, will cowtow to the Admins, and not say what they truly feel.

Twelve PMed you once, and your reaction was to start chanting "go on, do it!" I;ve often heard that statement given by grade schoolers, trying to dare another kid to do something they all know shouldn;t be done. After you took his replies to you out of context, he posted ALL of the communications between you.
At no time did you warn Twelve that his opinion was out of line, and he should back off. At no time did you warn him that continuing to PM you or Bills with such accusations would result in his banning. You simply egged him on, then got pissed when your attempt to humiliate him failed.

Sergiy, all the "good things" you have done here are great. But as an employee of the company, that;s your job. Please don;t expect baskets of cookies.

Bills, as Bottle said, if you want to claim prior good actions should negate one bad action, then reconsider the case of Twelve. He's done more for TAO than Sergiy has over the year he's been here, and was never payed a single dime to do it.

[Executioner]

Two pennys on everything in regard to making comments and some arguement response to other non admin posts:

On new changes:

For the people complaining about the weaking of the GA, i feel it can now serve a different and overall more satisfying purpose now. Before it was seen as very cheap, wheras now it can be used as an effective focus breaker in an anti (the middle of the anti NOT frontline). Also, with 4 range in can potentially be used to DEFEND, now THATS an unheard of statement. All units in TAO bar a few are for offense. Therefore making ONE unit worse at attacking isnt that much of a problem. Overall i think the changes to the GA are very good.

The Wisp changes are not that well recieved. I like that but that is only because i hate going aginst the wisp and i dont use it. I personally think this change should be reset. Although, it was a nice possible improvement.

The Changes to 1 Turn wait. This rule is fantasic. Without expressing my views regarding rushes and bombs, i believe a good rusher can adapt to this rule presuming that rush does truly require skill :rolleyes: Seriously, 1 turn should NOT make all the difference. Same as before, if a turtle got first turn against a rush, would you hang your head in despair, of course stinking not. You wouldnt give a flying pile of monkey poo. So why does it matter now? Fair enough, now turtles are guranteed to blast that front row dsm. The horror. If this rule gets reversed, it will be a sad day for TAo. The benefits of this rule far out weight the negatives, oh, there isnt really any major ones :cool:

Chat: This is horrible. It was fine before. Id rather have to shout at spammers, laugh as they get auto kicked for spamming and banned/kicked by mods and have my long messages than letting the same stuff as above occur but with slightly more screen more space taken up... :p

On future changes:

My first thin id like to say on future changes is to keep up the fabulous work that you have managed to maintain so far. Despite the occassional complaints about certain things, everyone still enjoys the game so you MUST be doing something right :D

As always, ill look forward to new units, hopefully by 2007 :dry: :p

Maybe a slant to some more/better defence units would be good?

I know there is a stickied suggestion thread of "Stuff all the noobs post everytime" but seriuosly. People keep thinking the same ideas over and over again for a reason, because they would be very popular and would make you need to buy a money counter with ALOT more digits on it. A few of my personal favourites:

Battle Watching
Double Battles
Whisper Function

If anyone feels they should flame me for writing that, so be it. Yet if you honestly think about it, those functions would be a fantastic addition to the game (whisper not as important). I know it would be hard to program but i would willingly pay 20% increase in subscription to see those changes instated (Yes i know its only $1 which is about 60p for me :rolleyes: )

On Twelve:

This situation has caused much grief for all parties involved. I am of the opinion that Twelve was treated too harshly. I am not stating whether i agree with what happened or not, that is irrelevant. I feel that Twelve has been treated worse than a spammer, booster, cheater or cyberer. They at least get a warning. Also, after that warning they are not normally permenantly banned. I know the situation differs due to this being the forum but i think twelve should be unbanned with the new trolling rules as stated by bills being CLEARLY stated. If this doesnt happen, i can honestly see a big downfall occuring due to people harbouring feelings of resent. Surely it is better for the future of TAO for what happened to be but behind us.

Thank you for reading this.

[Volcom]

sergiy = admin
Twelve = member
twelve = trolling = banned
thats what was written in the forums rules http://www.tacticsarena.com/forum/announcement.php?f=13
if you have a problem with this maybe you should leave.
and as for him doin more for TAO than anyone.. thats crap... one person doenst make a community, every one does

[Pieface1337]

But Volcom, He only sent ONE PM at that time.

1.3 Trolling
Trolling is the act of constantly posting negative comments about TAO and it's members/staff. It is a serious offense. Users that troll will be given a temporary ban. Repeated trolling will incur a permanent ban.

Twelve was given a perma ban right away..

[Jeffery]

And how is ONE pm to an admin "constantly posting"? By the definition you gave there Volcom, Twelve did not troll, and did not deserve a permaban if he had.

[Volcom]

actually... fair play...that true..
i spose im just expressing my dislike to 12

[Mithrandir]

1.3 Trolling
Trolling is the act of constantly posting negative comments about TAO and it's members/staff. It is a serious offense. Users that troll will be given a temporary ban. Repeated trolling will incur a permanent ban.
The thing that confuses me more than anything else is that a single PM expressing displeasure is enough to get Twelve permanently banned but we can all make REPEATED threads filled with comments much more negative about Sergiy's judgement and not even get a slap on the wrist. This is one of the most inconsistent administrations I've ever seen.

Before you ban for me saying this, take a good look at what the definition of trolling is. I think permanently banning Twelve for one "offense" is ludicrous but there is no question in my mind that all of us are much more deserving. How can Hugh start two threads filled with negative stuff about one of Sergiy's decisions without any repercussions, while Twelve can't send one PM about another one of Sergiy's decisions without a permanent ban?

[battle composed]

That reminds me. Does the witch has a 1 wait turn? Because my opponent moved his witch forward at the very first turn of the game. Or did the first turn wait just changed? I played at legends.

So, my own conclusion, everyone who had made "trolling" remarks get bans and it will be fine. Ha. Hee. Bam. Die.

1.3 Trolling
Trolling is the act of constantly posting negative comments about TAO and it's members/staff. It is a serious offense. Users that troll will be given a temporary ban. Repeated trolling will incur a permanent ban.

Looking at this, it seems clear. There wasn't any repeated trolling involved unless you count those who came in the stream.

[Forest_Archer]

TAO is corrupt. And that's all I'm going to say. Please don't ban me.

[Sensai]

The third on-topic post of the thread -.-

Here you go sergiy, Bills.

http://www.tacticsarena.com/forum/showthread.php?p=725183#post725183

[DOCTOR DEVICE]

While I believe 12 was banned for ther WRONG reasons, I believe the outcome was the correct one.

12 sparked a lot of not only doubt in the TAO minds, but made people think they could own the forums, as he thought.

Ever notice how wherever 12 was, there was always a mud-slinging?

As volcom said, i could just be expressing my views of 12 (dislike :dry:) but I think its more. How is TAO going to advance when some people think they can control the admins. As hugh said in his goodbye mod speech, 12 was experienced and paid for many golds, and made a site devoted to TAO. So? Does that give him a virtue to troll? What if carlos (22) said he was the best TAO player ever! Does that give him a right to troll? No. While they are on different topics of things, experience and a site do not give you the right to troll, just like high stats.

Regards,
DD

[Jeffery]

The third on-topic post of the thread -.-

Here you go sergiy, Bills.

http://www.tacticsarena.com/forum/showthread.php?p=725183#post725183
Sensei, Max handled that idea quite well.

[DOCTOR DEVICE]

Gadzooks! Previously Suggested Ideas DID steal his idea :eek:

[TheSilverRider]

1.3 Trolling
Trolling is the act of constantly posting negative comments about TAO and it's members/staff. It is a serious offense. Users that troll will be given a temporary ban. Repeated trolling will incur a permanent ban.

One point that i dont think has been brought up about this is that it says POSTING or repeated POSTING. To my knowledge Twelve PMed sergiy and did not POST it publicly. That does not fall under the definition of Trolling as stated above. Please explain this to me. Thank you for your time.

Keep it real.

[Sensai]

Sensei, Max handled that idea quite well.

Yeah I told him to. When I first checked I didn't take into consideration the stickies. When I looked back I needed someone to fix it, so I went to the best mod ever :P

[Jeffery]

Yeah I told him to. When I first checked I didn't take into consideration the stickies. When I looked back I needed someone to fix it, so I went to the best mod ever :P
Not to mention the only mod left. Almost.

[battle composed]

I will enjoy watching tao games like chess games. We always love being spectators. This is a simple and yet great idea. It's the simple things in life that seems to make it so wonderful. :D

Yeah I told him to. When I first checked I didn't take into consideration the stickies. When I looked back I needed someone to fix it, so I went to the best mod ever :P

Not that we have many left to choose from.

edited: hits Jeffrey on the head, and mutters a prayer.

[Sensai]

Not to mention the only mod left. Almost.

Yeah, when you look at the forum leaders page you have 6 mods left. But when you look in detail into it it's quite depressing.

Glam = Hardly
Max = Regular
Real = Gone for 4 months
Seed = Only if is suits him
snarr = Once a blue moon
thebu = Disappeared

Sad state...

[TheSilverRider]

Yeah, when you look at the forum leaders page you have 6 mods left. But when you look in detail into it it's quite depressing.

Glam = Hardly
Max = Regular
Real = Gone for 4 months
Seed = Only if is suits him
snarr = Once a blue moon
thebu = Disappeared

Sad state...

You could most def say this sux. We have lost soooo many mods in these last weeks not to mention Twelve. This is truly one of the sadest times i have ever known on TAO. :(

Keep it real.

[HeadHunter343]

I would like to be able to watch other people play games...but lets say in the Birds old school turt tourny...you would get people watching and then making a set to counter the other person set, the only way you could get it would be to make it so some from the outside has to ask to watch and both people have to agree.

[Sensai]

I would like to be able to watch other people play games...but lets say in the Birds old school turt tourny...you would get people watching and then making a set to counter the other person set, the only way you could get it would be to make it so some from the outside has to ask to watch and both people have to agree.

I hadn't thought of that possibility myself however it is quite blatently apparent that this function could be used to spy on your next opponent. I think that this may be a good method.

The person wanting to join has to type /watch and then click on a space that I labelled [name]. One this has happened the two people playing get:
***[name] has requested to view this match, type /accept to appect the request or /decline to decline the request.***

If both agree you are automatically joined. If one or both participants decline the person wanting to watch sees:
***Your request has been declined***

[freddyadu]

Yeah, when you look at the forum leaders page you have 6 mods left. But when you look in detail into it it's quite depressing.

Glam = Hardly
Max = Regular
Real = Gone for 4 months
Seed = Only if is suits him
snarr = Once a blue moon
thebu = Disappeared

Sad state...
How do you get to that page about the forum leaders, i can't find it.

[TheSilverRider]

I hadn't thought of that possibility myself however it is quite blatently apparent that this function could be used to spy on your next opponent. I think that this may be a good method.

The person wanting to join has to type /watch and then click on a space that I labelled [name]. One this has happened the two people playing get:
***[name] has requested to view this match, type /accept to appect the request or /decline to decline the request.***

If both agree you are automatically joined. If one or both participants decline the person wanting to watch sees:
***Your request has been declined***

I think that would be one of the greatest additions to TAO in a long time. That would attract alot more people and a very good idea. Now me being a grey in the game i dont really want to say this but i will: I think that if you want to attract more money to TAO then just make this a gold feature. I do really wish that i could do it but it would make way more people to go gold if it was only available for golds. Anyway those are my thoughts, great suggestions Sensei.

Keep it real.

[Sensai]

How do you get to that page about the forum leaders, i can't find it.

http://www.tacticsarena.com/forum/showgroups.php

I think that would be one of the greatest additions to TAO in a long time. That would attract alot more people and a very good idea. Now me being a grey in the game i dont really want to say this but i will: I think that if you want to attract more money to TAO then just make this a gold feature. I do really wish that i could do it but it would make way more people to go gold if it was only available for golds. Anyway those are my thoughts, great suggestions Sensei.

Keep it real.

Thankyou. It has been previously suggested, I knew it had but I thought i would add more depth to the idea.

[DOCTOR DEVICE]

I love that idea, and once the new in-game mods get their feet under them, they'll be made forum mods.

Regards,
DD

[Moose]

I have seen a lot of people talking about the threat of mass account cancellation as a method of being heard on TAO.

I am just letting you all know there are other more effective ways to get the point across. For example recently we added Gold drops and the majority of our forum users requested we change the drops back, and soon after we did.

It's a natural reaction to think anyone running a company which needs to make money to support its staff, costs and make profit is naturally evil by nature. I don't think this is the case with us or TAO.

In the last year we have added so many features to the site and game it's not even comparable to what we started with. We were able to do this by reading and acting on your feedback.

The support for the game has gone up, the interactive features on the site have increased and the game has continued to develop. We did all this without raising the cost or other money making schemes. We did add banners to the site but that was something we had taken out so really it was nothing new, and recently we switched a lot of our inventory to the less bothersome goggle ad types.

We are all on the same team in this, we take all constructive feedback into consideration when we plan changes to TAO, and expand TAO.

But it's hard to plan and expand features under threats, trolling and factless flaming.

The point of this post is not to convince people from creating mass account cancellation threads and rallies.

The point of this post is to let users that do leave feedback for us, that we are listening and their contributions are the ones that are helping us making TAO a better game.

Anyhow... my money counter jammed I gotta go fix it :P


Nice...very nice, but what your saying is bs, except for the money part.

You really want feedback? Do you? Because I don't you do, all you care about is how much green you can fit into one pouch at a time on your overly expensive 500 dollar leather jacket with gold trimmed shoe linings. So don't play "Mr.Nice Admin" to us when we all know you better then that.

If you really wanted to hear what we have to say, you would never have invented trolling, never banned people without good cause, and never made a commercialized gaming platform where customer support often comes 2nd when it comes to personal issues.

But anyways here's my feedback, I don't believe your qualified to be a game representive, the only time I had ever really talked to you in the game when I was having problems with the ticket system, you immediatly assumed I was making the problems up when I was reporting strange ticket numbers that I was getting when upgrading my forum status. The numbers were much higher then what they coninsided with on "your" ticket system, but again you didn't care, you didn't try at all to help a paying customer who was having a problem with your ticket system. You banned me and after resolving the issue with sergiy (who at that time was a good and kind hearted admin who helped me more then you ever did), was un-banned.

As for your statement on the website saying "Thanks for all the great reviews on the new website". That is just propaganda, from what I saw in the forums and the lobbys of the servers, most people thought FPS was becoming to legendized, and didn't want to change like this...so if that is considered "constructive reasoning" well....then I guess what i'm typing as feedback most defently be trolling.


So yeah, if you wanna ban me on this post for trolling go right ahead, but you'll just be throwing your whole "harrasing/arguing/insulting an admins capability speech" right out the window, because you are asking for feedback, you never specifcally stated it should be positive or negative.

*Pulls out latest cheque"

Mmmmm, I do enjoy making 25-35 dollars per hour and the canadian market is super great for me, how about in 9 months i'll buy TAO from ya for 50 grand. I'll let you stay in charge to, afterall, if this is your only form of your life you have to hold on to, you must feel great about boasting yourself to random strangers on the internet ;).

[Moose]

2nd post:

Oh ya the money country thing.. I have a really dry sense of humor hehe

About bannings,

Sergiy has been in charge of TAO for over a year now, and I think almost everyone can agree your tickets, these forums and the changes he has made have all made this a good place to chat with friends about TAO and other things.

Sergiy in this time has banned hundreds of people. Hundreds of spammers, trolls, script kiddies and all sorts of net trash that would have made this a crap place to spend time at.

If 99 percent of the people he banned deserved it, then even at that overwhelming success rate a few people pissed him off on the wrong day or said the wrong thing at the wrong time.

I think Sergiy has a 99 percent batting average. Which means if he thinks he banned someone for a wrong reasons he will change the banning, but I don't expect him to do so under threats or harassment.

I think people need to give feedback that he can use, to simply turn your back on an admin after 1 call you might not like undermines the hundreds of good calls he made, and believe me Sergiy goes out of his way to help people on TAO.

Nice...your basically generalizing and not focusing on the specifics, just like Bush.

You are now doing what officals do and that is avoiding the true arguement. Your trying to focus on the good instead of the bad, trying to rationalize decisions without bringing in all of the pieces together so that everyone has a fair view on what the "whole" event was in the first place.

So stop trying to hide behind false pretenses Bills, your just diggings yourself into a bigger trap, especially now that Jeffery has you in his focus.

[Jeffery]

I already offered Bills $50,000, and he said he would not sell for any amount.


Bills, here is some constructive feedback:

Follow through with what you promise. You say there will be a new server? PUT UP A NEW SERVER. You offer a contest to redesign the forums? Choose a winner and do it. You offer a contest for screenshots? Pick a winner and use it! Your admin says you are working on bringing back mailin payments? Being back mailin payments!

Do you see the direction I am heading here?

[Moose]

3rd Post: Sorry about the posting, every reply Bills has made deserves a seperate comment on.

Trolling, and harassment are not limited to public areas. I don't know why any of you would ever think that. If someone is being a pest and breaking the rules over PM, that counts the same as any other part of the forums.

I agree with you, if your pming an admin/mod and basically giving him a run down on "why he sucks" or "you stupid admin" kind of talk, then yes, that is trolling, but thats not what were questioning, and again your avoiding the main problem. Sergiy publically posted a private message to the TAO forums, he also deliberaty wanted to continue his discussion in public so that he would be seen as the hero in all of this, however the majority didn't agree with what 12 did or what Sergiy did, and when he saw that he was losing his ground, he closed the thread, clearly this was a personal wannabe gain attempt from Sergiy, and not becoming of an admin. So like I said, I agree with the trolling, but both 12 and Sergiy were 100%, even if Sergiy has a so-called 99-batting%, there is an odd time when a person can screw up, and in this case, he screwed up big time.

This is just generally speaking, not talking about the problem many of you are talking about. But if someone keeps pming someone in public or in private messages they are still under the same guidelines as everyone else.

Agreed, but thats not in question like I just said.

Perhaps, Sergiy posted 1 message out of a bunch of messages and that one was the final straw. Perhaps he wanted to send a message to that person and others to clean up their acts when using the pm function. Perhaps people have been ignoring previous warning to drop the subject they were contacting admins about... Perhaps, perhaps perhaps.

Perhaps you should have taken a closer look at this when a key member of the community was in trouble, perhaps YOU should have been the guy to break up the duspute and pubically admit both parties were wrong, perhaps Sergiy really was boasting but your allowing him to get away with it because of his status, perhaps, perhaps...perhaps.


No one really knows what is going on, I do think that if everyone tries to calm down from these few bans things will get sorted out.

As the rule master and owner of TAO gaming Inc, shouldn't you Know whats going on? Shouldn't you be on top of things that deal with administration disputes, shouldn't you be in charge of making sure the customers are happy? Shouldn't you? Shouldn't you.....?

I mean for up to a year now everyone loved Sergiy and trusted him. Don't you think he will in the end will treat everyone the same as he has over the last year. I'm sure a larger percentage of you have had tickets or problems solved by him.You know he's a pretty level headed guy.

Hey, I was more trusted and respected for a long time until that whole fake Seed debacule came up, and i'm just starting to recover back my status. Yes, he did help resolve my tickets when you chose to ignore me and considered a ban was in order for my problem. But again your trying to generalize, were not disputing his past events, were disputing his call in the bannings and choosing of mods. And as are obviously on walls trying to lash back out in his defense, obviously we the community have a point.

I think a lot will get solved if you let the people involved handle this, ei Sergiy and the people that were banned handle it. I think 9 times out of 10 after a few days people calm down and compromise on things.

Just look at Jeffery, I think I've banned him at least a few times over the years, but he's still here...still taking pot shots at us :P

It's been a a week, and things haven't calmed down. Now aren't you taking a pot shot at Jeffery with that comment though? Besides, he can choose when or when not to pay to keep certain gold accounts that He pays for active. Again Bills, gj with that rational ideal, you just keep trapping yourself.

So in short on this one issue, everyone needs to put down the Red Bull and relax.

Put down your fake exterior of superiorty and realize, your just getting pwned.

[Moose]

4th and final post for now:

Looks like we have here what they call mass hysteria.

Lets clear things up a little with Twelve's case because the majority of those who are complaining here just see what they want to see.

If you try to read the reason why Twelve was banned, you will see this: "trolling and administration offence". I could ban him right after receiving that PM. If you think that you can offence somebody via PM without any punishment you are wrong. Mods and I by myself have got tons of complains from users who received offensive PMs or even rep messages on our forum, and such actions were always punished.

But because I knew that this PM was not from just a regular member, I decided to ask others if they support the points Twelve made in his PM (because he was talking there not only about himself but about the whole community). When I asked him to post his message on the forum he refused it, so I posted it by myself because I had to know either what he said is true and there is a problem with me or false and there is a problem with him. You may say that I shouldn't post his PM. I say that a person shouldn't bring accusations which he is not able to repeat in public (if those are real accusations of course, not just a try to offence somebody).

Again if you try to read what I said in that thread and what other mods said you will see that everything Twelve wrote in his PM was disproved and all his posts there where he was saying that my actions were wrong were considered as trolling.


So, if you ask me again: did he deserve his permanent ban? I would answer: absolutely.

I'm gonna keep this one really simple, were not disputing the reason for the ban, were disputing how the ban was put into effect, you Sergiy and 12 were both 100% wrong on how you both dealt with the situation (in my humble opinion anyways). But again, you scare people away with trolling so our voice won't be heard, and believe it or not Sergiy, but we pay to keep the servers up, not you, us.

[Aro23r]

Sergiy said what you just quoted, not Bills.

[speaker4thedead]

I think i feel the same as most other posters 12 was wrongly banned :(

[HatchetKlown17]

I think his ban should have been 2 weeks. But that is just that, my opinion.

[Sensai]

2 weeks would have sufficed. Can anyone enable me to use html on Banff please?

[DOCTOR DEVICE]

If you really wanted to hear what we have to say, you would never have invented trolling, never banned people without good cause, and never made a commercialized gaming platform where customer support often comes 2nd when it comes to personal issues.

So what exactly? People can just walk all over the admins without punishment? Here's a little clue for you buddy: He provided this game! While I think nearly all of your points our valid this one isnt. Like it or not he RUNS this game, and when someone is blatantly disrespectful... they should be punishesd.

But anyways here's my feedback, I don't believe your qualified to be a game representive, the only time I had ever really talked to you in the game when I was having problems with the ticket system, you immediatly assumed I was making the problems up when I was reporting strange ticket numbers that I was getting when upgrading my forum status. The numbers were much higher then what they coninsided with on "your" ticket system, but again you didn't care, you didn't try at all to help a paying customer who was having a problem with your ticket system. You banned me and after resolving the issue with sergiy (who at that time was a good and kind hearted admin who helped me more then you ever did), was un-banned.

He handled that wrong and made prejudices, yes. But how many posts did you have at that time? How long were you a member of the forum? Im guessing you were a n00b on the forum. If you wanted to send your ticket in now, i have NO doubt that bills and serigy would take your problem much more seriously. While they SHOULD treat everyone with the same set of mind going in, thats just not real. A 5000 poster with 11 rep boxes says that this 50-poster with a red box is just spamming, while the 50-post accuses the 5000-poster of spamming... Which case will be taken more seriously in a REALISTIC world?


As for your statement on the website saying "Thanks for all the great reviews on the new website". That is just propaganda, from what I saw in the forums and the lobbys of the servers, most people thought FPS was becoming to legendized, and didn't want to change like this...so if that is considered "constructive reasoning" well....then I guess what i'm typing as feedback most defently be trolling.


So yeah, if you wanna ban me on this post for trolling go right ahead, but you'll just be throwing your whole "harrasing/arguing/insulting an admins capability speech" right out the window, because you are asking for feedback, you never specifcally stated it should be positive or negative.

*Pulls out latest cheque"

Mmmmm, I do enjoy making 25-35 dollars per hour and the canadian market is super great for me, how about in 9 months i'll buy TAO from ya for 50 grand. I'll let you stay in charge to, afterall, if this is your only form of your life you have to hold on to, you must feel great about boasting yourself to random strangers on the internet ;).

Entirely valid, props on that :bigsmile:

Posts 2, 3, and 4

Entirely 100% spot on :bigsmile:

[Jeffery]

Just look at Jeffery, I think I've banned him at least a few times over the years, but he's still here...still taking pot shots at us :P

I would like to point out, that I have only been "banned" twice from these forums. Once was a longer duration ban that I fully deserved.
The second was an IP ban and deletion from the servers over a misunderstanding, one that would have never occurred if I had not tried to be honest with the Admins to begin with. (TAO would never have known about it, since cpanel does not log such things. My contacting and letting you know lead to an overreaction and IP ban)

And if you call my refusal to do the jobs the admins used to do, then fine. Take it as a potshot that I won;t do what you are paying Srergiy to do. Sorry if that inconviences you.

[meat.eater]

He handled that wrong and made prejudices, yes. But how many posts did you have at that time? How long were you a member of the forum? Im guessing you were a n00b on the forum. If you wanted to send your ticket in now, i have NO doubt that bills and serigy would take your problem much more seriously. While they SHOULD treat everyone with the same set of mind going in, thats just not real. A 5000 poster with 11 rep boxes says that this 50-poster with a red box is just spamming, while the 50-post accuses the 5000-poster of spamming... Which case will be taken more seriously in a REALISTIC world?

That, some would argue, would be the problem.

An no. Moose was not a 'n00b' when that happened.

[DOCTOR DEVICE]

I guessed, cant get em all right :)

[Bottle]

Grr... I wrote a great long post, tried to post it, and the forums crashed. Now I'm going to have to try and remember what I said. :dry:

OK, Bills, here goes. This is what you've lost from this little episode.

2 forum moderators.
$50 a month.
Forum members. (Not important to you, I know.)
Sergiy's respect from the community.

All this could be solved by simply admitting that an immediate, permanent ban for a first-time offence that wasn't even trolling in the usual sense of the word wasn't right, and removing the ban and remodding Aro. But you seem to want to continue along this path of trying to placate matters.

I'm afraid that's not going to work. Too many forum members are too angry at this disgraceful decision. It's not going to die down like many other contentious issues have; Hugh, Jeffery, myself, and many others will continue to put across this argument. If you respond with bans, that will just rile the community further. If you ignore it, as you currently are, that will just make matters worse.

The entire community think that 12 does not deserve to be still banned for what he's done. Indeed, almost the entire community (with a few exceptions) felt that the ban was wrong in the first place.

I realise that you have to protect your employee's credibility and overturning a decision by him would just undermine him, but consider the alternative: sergiy now has hardly any respect anyway, to the point where he has hardly posted at all in the past few days, knowing that he'd just get a hostile reception. You can't let this carry on. You can't just try and shrug it off; it's been a week already and there's no sign of a compromise, and more people are getting angry. What's next? You've already lost 2 mods, and with the way the current ones were treated, which suitable member would want to become one now? Sure, you'll get the "Oh give me a cool blue name" applicants, but not the ones who'd do a really good job. Are you willing to risk the forum over one poor banning decision? You started this thread with "threats to cancel accounts are not the best way to get through to us". Well, it seems that way at the moment; we ONLY got you and sergiy to post when Jeff stopped providing you with $50 a month. People will see this, and people may start to cancel if you don't start LISTENING TO YOUR CUSTOMERS.

Bah, the first post I wrote was better, but this still gets my point across.

[Jeffery]

I disagree. Moose has always been a n00b. ;)

And tickets should be handled without consideration of who sent it.

[Moose]

I guessed, cant get em all right :)

There are probably about only 9 people who can call me n00bs, and even then, 2 hours after the game launched really doesn't make me a huge "n00b" :p, and I only know 2 of them that play anymore(rarely).

That was back on Oct 29th 2003.

Edit: Gee thanks Jeff, I feel so special now....n00b.

[DOCTOR DEVICE]

Could HAVE, should HAVE. All the past tences need to stop, because even if bills lifted the ban, tension would only grow between him and serigy. What's done is done and anything right now thay would solve the situation for a few would be shameful for the rest:

Choices:

1. Lift the ban

Outcome: Some vets are happy while still some people on TAO are mad. Tension between bills and sergiy starts to the point that when their views cross they both become horribly useless.

2. Keep it as it is

Outcome:

Some of TAO is mad, while a little is happy. Vets leave, people hate sergiy, and people continue to bash bills while he trys to help.

3. Make it a temporary ban (prolly the best)

Outcome:

Vets are back, 12 is back, the majority of TAO feel s the right has been done. Sergiy isn't toally undermined, the message gets across that trolling is bad, while STILL he feels backstabbed a lil' by bills. However, some of TAO is still mad and will ramble on forever how the "un-banning of 12" was the worst decision ever nad more trolling begins.

So there you have it, the best analasys I can provide... with one simple bottom line.

You cant please all of them some of the time, but you can please some of them all of the time.

And sorry for the 'noob' Moose, I thought most of your argument was great.

[Jeffery]

There are probably about only 9 people who can call me n00bs, and even then, 2 hours after the game launched really doesn't make me a huge "n00b" :p, and I only know 2 of them that play anymore(rarely).

That was back on Oct 29th 2003.

Edit: Gee thanks Jeff, I feel so special now....n00b.
/me mutters about people who still don;t know the difference between n00b and newb.

[Moose]

/me mutters about people who still don;t know the difference between n00b and newb.

Almost 20k of posts and you still can't spell "don't" properly :p.

[Jeffery]

The difference between your ignorance of definitions, and my typing ; instead of ' is more than you will ever know.

[yall are ded]

I think perma bans should be voted on by moderators. I mean a short ban until they are able to vote. That way it seems a little more fail and a little less one sided. To me democracy is the best kind of government.My thoughts.:)

Also on the very off topic idea of battle watching: I think it might be useful for a tryout. The tryout person watching a game with someone outside of the initial clan.

[Moose]

The difference between your ignorance of definitions, and my typing ; instead of ' is more than you will ever know.

Well I know being lazy with spelling is what you do with those words so it's no biggy :p.

[DOCTOR DEVICE]

Sorrry guys, I was wrong, Moose is a n00b :dry:

[Jeffery]

Well I know being lazy with spelling is what you do with those words so it's no biggy :p.
How is ; instead of ' a matter of laziness? I am still typing the same number of letters and symbols.
But, i already said your ignorance would never be able to understand. I'll let you continue to frett over it.

[Moose]

How is ; instead of ' a matter of laziness? I am still typing the same number of letters and symbols.
But, i already said your ignorance would never be able to understand. I'll let you continue to frett over it.

I'm just acknowledging the fact that you know you do it, and after my lil rant against Bills and Sergiy have used up most of brain power for today, so basically any further discussion we have i'll let you automatically win :p.

That made no sense...but yeah....hmm................................yeahhhh

[Jeffery]

Ranting takes brain power???

/me makes note to turn brain on before pointing out failures in the matrix.

[DOCTOR DEVICE]

Moose has a brain!!!! :eek:

[Poop Slinger]

I know this is a new concept... But instead of everyone whining about 12's undeserved ban.. :rolleyes: he could just make another account.. Apologize for trolling over the past two of the three years here and we can all move on.. I think another leader who has brought just as many people to the game as well as gold members.. did the same thing. Don't get me wrong I respect 12, i think he meant to have good intentions.. but I also thing he has been riding the fame too long and pushing it for every dollar.. You cannot honestly say he didn't deserve the ban. Constantly ripping on the mods (Realist for one, which in itself deserved a ban, never received to my knowledge) and encouraging mob mentalities and group flaming/trolling.. hell he even apologized for that in the NJ thread. 12 was trolling bottom line. Had Sergiy just banned him for the pm.. the situation would be no different.. Sergiy did his job.. just as he HAS been doing. And also.. if you read 12's reply.. it was more than ONE pm back and forth. I think the perma ban is rough.. but is a smack in the face to say.. look at what your doing. Also by doing the perma ban no one else can lift it. I think if the community as a whole would react better. or 12 apologized.. The ban could be lifted.. As someone without his main account.. I actually understand both sides.

Now Mods leaving is their own decision.. If they feel its making a statement I'm kinda saddened by it. To me it means "I respect 12 more than the community." or "I'm popular enough I can sway others to have my opinion" Come on guys the community needs you.. If you think that there were poor decisions made as to who the mods are.. who do you think is gonna be picked to replace you? Suck up your stupid pride and act like mods not toddlers.

So Now Let's all move off of the wasted discussion of a deserved ban and discuss things like this, bills wants to hear our opinions about game improvement.. lets address it for the three days he will be here reading the forums.. or this will be just another wasted thread.

Follow through with what you promise. You say there will be a new server? PUT UP A NEW SERVER. You offer a contest to redesign the forums? Choose a winner and do it. You offer a contest for screenshots? Pick a winner and use it! Your admin says you are working on bringing back mailing payments? Being back mailing payments!

Do you see the direction I am heading here?

Yes honesty Bills.. Honesty. You're worse than me in the "create threads that have no meaning".. or throwing out red herrings. I think before there are any new units.. new features whatever you should FINISH the contests you started over a year ago and show your involvement in the community.

Then.. I would love to see the rest of the suggestions in the suggestion thread at least addressed. I'm glad to see the challenge feature, I would just like Grey's to be able to challenge Grey's as well.

Then when all that is said and done. Actually have some kind of prizes or awards.. or even like Seed used to do on his old site.. have a section that states the winners of the tournaments.

And then finally.. You have the CAU section. A waste land of creations and some good ideas. If there is any intentions of making a new unit.. Look there before another mistake like the GA is made. For three years that sections has become a vast wasteland of ideas..

[Jeffery]

Meh, if you are let back into the community, you should be able to use your normal name.

[mantis33]

I know this is a new concept... But instead of everyone whining about 12's undeserved ban.. :rolleyes: he could just make another account.. Apologize for trolling over the past two of the three years here and we can all move on.. I think another leader who has brought just as many people to the game as well as gold members.. did the same thing. Don't get me wrong I respect 12, i think he meant to have good intentions.. but I also thing he has been riding the fame too long and pushing it for every dollar.. You cannot honestly say he didn't deserve the ban. Constantly ripping on the mods (Realist for one, which in itself deserved a ban, never received to my knowledge) and encouraging mob mentalities and group flaming/trolling.. hell he even apologized for that in the NJ thread. 12 was trolling bottom line. Had Sergiy just banned him for the pm.. the situation would be no different.. Sergiy did his job.. just as he HAS been doing. And also.. if you read 12's reply.. it was more than ONE pm back and forth. I think the perma ban is rough.. but is a smack in the face to say.. look at what your doing. Also by doing the perma ban no one else can lift it. I think if the community as a whole would react better. or 12 apologized.. The ban could be lifted.. As someone without his main account.. I actually understand both sides.

Now Mods leaving is their own decision.. If they feel its making a statement I'm kinda saddened by it. To me it means "I respect 12 more than the community." or "I'm popular enough I can sway others to have my opinion" Come on guys the community needs you.. If you think that there were poor decisions made as to who the mods are.. who do you think is gonna be picked to replace you? Suck up your stupid pride and act like mods not toddlers.

So Now Let's all move off of the wasted discussion of a deserved ban and discuss things like this, bills wants to hear our opinions about game improvement.. lets address it for the three days he will be here reading the forums.. or this will be just another wasted thread.



Yes honesty Bills.. Honesty. You're worse than me in the "create threads that have no meaning".. or throwing out red herrings. I think before there are any new units.. new features whatever you should FINISH the contests you started over a year ago and show your involvement in the community.

Then.. I would love to see the rest of the suggestions in the suggestion thread at least addressed. I'm glad to see the challenge feature, I would just like Grey's to be able to challenge Grey's as well.

Then when all that is said and done. Actually have some kind of prizes or awards.. or even like Seed used to do on his old site.. have a section that states the winners of the tournaments.

And then finally.. You have the CAU section. A waste land of creations and some good ideas. If there is any intentions of making a new unit.. Look there before another mistake like the GA is made. For three years that sections has become a vast wasteland of ideas..
Spectacular post!

[meat.eater]

*Standing ovation for Mel*

You have more balls then I do. But that is exactly what I have wanted to post about this situation.

EDIT: Not exactly, but the jist of the currect issue. I disagree that 12 has trolled people for a long period of time. I think that is very false.

[Bottle]

*shrug*

The fact that this guy is the leader of a clan that has been rivals with 12's clan for almost 2 years doesn't make him at all biased either. :rolleyes:

I especially love the "he's been trolling for months" comment. Saying that a mod is biased isn't trolling... your definition is even more warped than sergiy's.

[Poop Slinger]

Rivals has nothing to do with it.. Check the forums and I'll post our pms if need be' 12 and I have ALWAYS been civil to each other and held great respect for one another.
But this is off topic.

Awaiting bills contest and sever name winners.

[Jeffery]

*laughs and watches Mel's face turn blue from holding his breathe forever*

[HatchetKlown17]

Mel, I dont think you will be getting that anytime soon. I cant even remembered when I entered that name in there. Wow, it saddens me to even think how long ago that was; and yet we havent heard a single word about it since.

[Moose]

On a side note, when do I get my l-ward avvy back on Rev?

[uniquinous]

Intent

Look at intent.

The fact of the matter is, 12 trolls a lot; and I'm not just talking about sergiy. The pm to sergiy had absolutely *no* intention of asking for clarification, progating respectful dialogue, or making a respectful comment. It has one intent and one intent only: to insult. I can show you a large number of posts of 12's that were blatant trolling, many of which he flat out admits to, and further says he doesn't really care that he's trolling.

Let's just say flatout what everyone knows: 12 has an alpha-dog personality. That's fine, that's great. He is very kind and supportive to those who don't challenge that, and has been a great help to this community in that regard. However, this was a situation when that personality didn't get what he wanted. In short, he wasn't in the alpha-dog position and that upset him.

Sergiy put him in his place. Yeah, he was trolling. Yes, his only intent was to insult and not provide the smallest scrap of constructive criticism. Yes, he does this anytime he feels threatened by another alpha-dog, or anytime he feels like it for that matter. It's his personality. The largest place I disagree with sergiy is the duration. To be fair, the ban should be as long as any other troller, about a month or so, with a second offense to be longer.

To those who say sergiy lost all respect from the community: dare I say, be Realistic - that's not the case at all.

Bills-
Can we please get some feedback from your end regarding a new server, character limits, etc? I think that would be great for the community.

[Bottle]

Another completely unbiased observer? :rolleyes:

If 12 has trolled so often before, why has he not been been banned, or even warned, by the admins before? Hmm?

[meat.eater]

To be fair Bottle, your view is a biased view as well.

[Hugh Junit]

Now Mods leaving is their own decision.. If they feel its making a statement I'm kinda saddened by it. To me it means "I respect 12 more than the community." or "I'm popular enough I can sway others to have my opinion" Come on guys the community needs you.. If you think that there were poor decisions made as to who the mods are.. who do you think is gonna be picked to replace you? Suck up your stupid pride and act like mods not toddlers.


If standing up and making a sacrifice for what I think is right is acting like a "toddler", mel, then you and I have very different definitions of the word.
I've helped a lot of people with a lot of different issues, and always tried to resolve the issues brought to me as a mod. So don't think that I don't care about the community. I do.
But my status on an online forum isn't more important to me than doing what I honestly think is right. I'm not trying to sway anyone, either. I didn't create a petition, or ask anyone to stand with me. The fact that people did proves that many of us believe this is wrong.
I agree that being a moderator is about helping the community. It was for me, at least. I don't think I can do that if I disagree with the system that's being established. A system where people who support this game are banished for speaking against an administrative decision.
And I never said that I thought the new mod choices were "poor". I don't think any moderator said that. Twelve was upset because he thought several deserving vets were passed over, and he should have been able to express that opinion to sergiy ( in a PM ) without being kicked off the island.

[Office_Shredder]

Another completely unbiased observer? :rolleyes:


Three of the four people in your sig are from netjak, coincidence? I suppose they were all totally unbiased observers also :rolleyes:

[Hugh Junit]

Don't get me wrong I respect 12, i think he meant to have good intentions.. but I also thing he has been riding the fame too long and pushing it for every dollar..

I almost missed this. Classic.
"Riding the fame too long", mel? Yeah, it's obvious that you respect him.
No jealousy or bitterness in that statement.
:rolleyes:

[dominion138]

Intent

Look at intent.

The fact of the matt