The "Star Wars" project

[TheBlazedAce]

Check this article out:
http://www.slate.com/?id=2073642

If you don't know about the background of the star wars project initiated by reagan you can read the following:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_Defense_Initiative

For most of the scientific community it was a joke, a farce on the name of science, and now it's being brought up again. Great...

[Dove]

Check this article out:
http://www.slate.com/?id=2073642

If you don't know about the background of the star wars project initiated by reagan you can read the following:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_Defense_Initiative

For most of the scientific community it was a joke, a farce on the name of science, and now it's being brought up again. Great...

I don't care anymore if I'm offensive.

I'm sick of people complaining. Bush might not be the most brilliant political mind. Who cares? He's trying to protect us in one way. It's annoying that people bash executive decision just because they're made by Bush.

I understand that it might be more efficient to spend money on another system. Well people, do some research and find out what's necessary. If you want change, make it happen.

That aside, yes, he's spending money. Yes, it may not be in the most logical place. But it's for our defense, and we continue to whine.

Meh. I'm tired of pessimism about Bush and his administration. He's not my favorite person, but heavens, he should be venerated because of his position if nothing else... nobody deserves to be a punching bag when they're genuinely trying to help.

[Match Strike]

I don't care anymore if I'm offensive.

I'm sick of people complaining. Bush might not be the most brilliant political mind. Who cares? He's trying to protect us in one way. It's annoying that people bash executive decision just because they're made by Bush.

I understand that it might be more efficient to spend money on another system. Well people, do some research and find out what's necessary. If you want change, make it happen.

That aside, yes, he's spending money. Yes, it may not be in the most logical place. But it's for our defense, and we continue to whine.

Meh. I'm tired of pessimism about Bush and his administration. He's not my favorite person, but heavens, he should be venerated because of his position if nothing else... nobody deserves to be a punching bag when they're genuinely trying to help.
Your (lack of) logic is astounding Dove.

You're basically saying; "hey, he's trying really, really hard! Stop picking on him!"

Dove, do you know what his job is? I think it's rather important that he does that job well.

[Dove]

Your (lack of) logic is astounding Dove.

You're basically saying; "hey, he's trying really, really hard! Stop picking on him!"

Dove, do you know what his job is? I think it's rather important that he does that job well.

I'm not saying he's competent. Really, I'm not arguing that at all.

Considering that, yes, it's key to note that he's making an effort to improve things.

Doesn't mean we can't pick someone more competent next time. I hope we do. But I'd say it's better to have someone slightly incompetent making an effort as opposed to someone highly qualified that doesn't give a rip about the American populace.

[EleMENTAL]

The way I think of it is:

If you don't like bush, why did you make him your president.

[Match Strike]

I didn't.

[Office_Shredder]

Blazed, anti-missle defense systems can be incredibly effective; Israel currently has the most up to date and effective system in the world (from what I've heard), and it's no joke.

The star wars program was specifically a poor weapon design in which a nuclear explosion took place inside of a focusing chamber, which used mirrors to direct a narrow X-ray at a target. There were numerous flaws in the system, such as the short time between when the x-ray can be targetted and when the entire satellite is blown to smithereens (it's a one time shot), trying to actually point the satellite at a low target in the necessary period of time, and actually generating the x-ray using current technology (in fact, they tried generating an x-ray once, and got absolutely nothing. This was a controlled underground experiment).

The concept of shooting down a missle, on the other hand, is not necessarily a bad one. You just need a more effective mechanism (such as your own missile)

[Dove]

Blazed, anti-missle defense systems can be incredibly effective; Israel currently has the most up to date and effective system in the world (from what I've heard), and it's no joke.

You should have heard the stories that some of the Seniors from my school had when they got back from Israel. While slightly off topic, it's quite interesting.

In numerous spots there were massive towers sitting in plain vision guarded by tons of military forces.

Many times the question was asked what purpose they served, and as many times the answer was "what tower?" Literally, they denied the existence of these things despite them being in plain sight.

Better yet, and this may or may not have ANY verity or interesting implications at all, but a NUMBER of people tried taking pictures of them at different times of day, different locations, different cameras, all of which turned up blank. I'm no conspiracy theorist, but that's just weird.

At any rate, continue...

[TheBlazedAce]

You should have heard the stories that some of the Seniors from my school had when they got back from Israel. While slightly off topic, it's quite interesting.

In numerous spots there were massive towers sitting in plain vision guarded by tons of military forces.

Many times the question was asked what purpose they served, and as many times the answer was "what tower?" Literally, they denied the existence of these things despite them being in plain sight.

Better yet, and this may or may not have ANY verity or interesting implications at all, but a NUMBER of people tried taking pictures of them at different times of day, different locations, different cameras, all of which turned up blank. I'm no conspiracy theorist, but that's just weird.

At any rate, continue...
I've been to Israel tons of times and on camping trips with basically tour groups all through Israel. I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. Even if a tower was seen I don't see what's so special about it. I think either you misunderstood your friends or they just exagerated a story like the person they asked just once said what becuase they didn't hear them and all of a sudden they can't see a tower. Cameras all turning blank, now Israel has anti-picture techonology?

Sorry.

OS: That's very interesting to know, and I can understand more the reasoning behind actual missile-defense systems, I was more bashing the star wars one like you were and pointing just to an interesting article I found. I wasn't insinuating anything particular about it. It's also very interesting to me becuase I'm doing a freshman design project which we got hooked up with a senior design project doing a guided missile for the military (got a research grant for it). At first we were doing almost nothing, but now becuase we've been doing such a great job we're designing everything about the aiframe and the senior group is basically just making 3 curcuit boards and the programming to guide it.

Just today I finalized the pro-e files and send the schematics finalized which are being checked over one more time and sent to a machinist in maryland (which we already went, me, a friend in the group of mine, and the advisor and main guy heading the seniors, to the machinist to explain exactly what we want, a lot of it is made already, just holes and certain changes need to be made).

Sweetly enough the head guy is getting me a job this summer at army research labs in maryland and I think I'm going to be working there this summer. Underground, high tech, probably good pay, sounds good right?

Dove: I wasn't bashing anyone, if anything I think the article bashes rumsfield (probably mispelled his name, sorry), not Bush. I was just pointing out an interesting article, I didn't even mention a name.

[battle composed]

I think they are working on this anti missile plan with Japan. I remember seeing this in the news. It is said to revolutionise range wars in the region if this plan succeeds. Is America the most advanced in the arms race?

[Jeffery]

The problem that has ALWAYS plaqued the SW project is simple.

If they create and deploy an effective ABM system, then those working on the project are out of money. Hence, you make Billions of dollars more by continued "work' towards making one, than in actually making one.

As for the Israeli ABM system, they have a few modified Patriot systems, that in tested combat situations had roughly a 60% kill ratio on low flying missiles.

The problem to all this is quite simple. Attacks are not going to be made by a country declaring war by shooting ballistic missiles at us. If they want to attack us, they will simple smuggle a warhead over the border, and explode it in a van somewhere.

Having a "ballistic missile shield" is going to do no more than make people feel better.

[plusminus]

Thank you Jeffrey for bringing the obvious paddle into this thread and smacking people with it. Badly needed.

[Hellblazer]

The way I think of it is:

If you don't like bush, why did you make him your president.
There are those who think he's a "smart choice", like my social studies teacher last year.:rolleyes:
This has to be by far one of the dumbest things he's trying to do, though.

[Match Strike]

The problem that has ALWAYS plaqued the SW project is simple.
Did Reagan forget to brush?

[Office_Shredder]

The problem to all this is quite simple. Attacks are not going to be made by a country declaring war by shooting ballistic missiles at us. If they want to attack us, they will simple smuggle a warhead over the border, and explode it in a van somewhere.


That's not necessarily the point though. A missile defense shield places the nation with it in a position of superiority at any bargaining table. For example, if China decided to invade Taiwan, and during a diplomatic meeting with them we said "You have 24 hours to pull out or we'll nuke you", at the current point in time they would just laugh, and threaten to nuke us back. Firing a missile is easy.

Smuggling a bomb into the country, on the other hand, is much more difficult and time consuming. Smuggling enough bombs to destroy every major city, and getting to those locations, becomes even more arduous. And china would only have 24 hours to get these bombs into position through what would be an obviously heightened port security (or possibly no security, because the ports are all shut down to prevent this from happening). In the end, china would HAVE to listen to us, because we can destroy them, and they can't destroy us. The only solution would be to have an agent with a nuclear bomb residing in each city, with a secure and fast mode of communication with the Chinese government, which would be easier to unravel than trying to take out nuclear silos in China

[plusminus]

Did Reagan forget to brush?

Reagan tended to forget a lot of things.

[Jeffery]

Your example fails on one simple fact.

Nuclear devices will not be deployed by a superpower because they know what MAD is. The US will not even threaten with a nuke over something as silly as Taiwan, or anything else.

The problem is you are mind set that there is going to be a massive world war three involving the major countries firing nukes at each other. Time to wake up and smell reality. World war three is here already, and it has very little to do with nuking each other.

[TheBlazedAce]

Your example fails on one simple fact.

Nuclear devices will not be deployed by a superpower because they know what MAD is. The US will not even threaten with a nuke over something as silly as Taiwan, or anything else.

The problem is you are mind set that there is going to be a massive world war three involving the major countries firing nukes at each other. Time to wake up and smell reality. World war three is here already, and it has very little to do with nuking each other.
That's very deep man... :cool:
Care to explain? I want to hear more...