Hargyn

[Cross Punisher]

HARGYN
"Hargyi may have descended from the mythical heavens themselves for the power they possess seems not of this world. Unbeknowst to man as of how, a Hargyn actually has the ability to grant damage invulnerability to beings. Said beings can't by hurt while under the Hargyn's spell though they do tend to have less stamina as the Hargyn's spell puts those effected under a great deal of stress."

STATISTICS
HP: 34
Power: 0
Armor: 22
Movement: 3
Recovery: 4
Range: 2*

H - Hargyn
X - Square Attacked

X
X or X X
H H


INFORMATION
Game Guide - Rule Book - 4. Special Abilities - 4.6 states, "Unbreakable units cannot be damaged or destroyed" here (http://www.tacticsarena.com/guide/rules.php). Strange thing is there are no units currently that possess the ability of this "Unbreakable," so I thought I'd give you all my take on it.

The Hargyn's attack is a focus attack that can effect a maximum of two units. These two units now possess the ability "Unbreakable." Unbreakable units' HP are not effected while focused on by the Hargyn though any other attack effects still happen. When an Unbreakable unit is effected by ANY HP effecting attack(positive or negative), it suffers the same effect as if it was stunned(1 recovery will be temporarily added to its wait), and 1 movement will be permanently removed from its movement as long as the Unbreakable unit is focused on by the Hargyn. Unbreakable units do not block.

If that confused you in any way here's an example: I attack my scout with my Hargyn making the scout Unbreakable and my opponent heals or something. I then use my scout to attack a square without moving giving it 1 recovery. My opponent now attacks my scout giving it now 2 recovery instead of the 1 it had and permanently reduces its movement from 4 to 3. I then perhaps do something else and my opponent attacks my scout with their Berzerker which would actually stun the scout twice giving it now a pretty high 3 recovery because the Berzker stuns when it attacks in one turn and the scouts movement is further reduced to 2. etc, etc. There may come to a point where my scout has 0 movement and is unable to move anymore, but it can still attack from where it is, which is a good reason to make a unit with a high range Unbreakable. If I move the Hargyn to break the focus it has over the scout, the scout will keep any recovery it might have at the moment, but it's movement will be automatically return to 4.

As you can see a Berzerker could be an Unbreakable units worst enemy aside from a wisp which actually attacks twice per turn EVERY turn it's in focus. You may think that the Unbreakable units are too susceptible to extremely high recovery and not being able to move, but don't forget that that means that your opponent is using their turns to attack your units without actually doing ANY damage to your units, and most people seem to think that if they haven't done any damage in one of their turns, then they've wasted their turn.

[Smiley_Girl]

1. I love the idea
2. Originality = A+
3. Balance = A+
4. I can't find any problems with this unit and I believe it would make the game more fun.
Good Job!:cool:

[smokeyham94]

Umm yea smiley...
I really don't get it. Unbreakable units r good or bad?
Do u mind explaining in ur own words punisher..

[Cross Punisher]

I'd also like to thank Hellblazer who I forgot to mention before, it was 5:41 in the morning :p , for taking a look at the unit before I posted it because I haven't made one in about 4 months.

Umm yea smiley...
I really don't get it. Unbreakable units r good or bad?
Do u mind explaining in ur own words punisher..Unbreakable units are good and bad. Good because they cannot be damaged in anyway and bad because if you rush them right into your opponent's setup because they are undamagable, then you run the risk of getting them stuck in your opponent's setup without being able to move anymore. At first there was no movement penalty when an Unbreakable unit was attacked, and no matter which way I turned and looked at the unit, I kept coming to the conclusion that it was just a better Barrier Ward in effect. Thing is most golds don't use Barrier Wards... most golds would use this. It starts off pretty much better in every respect to a barrier ward, but as the Unbreakable units become more fatigued (e.g. get attacked) they will become useless forcing you to waste one of your turns to break the Hargyn's focus allowing you to use your units once again.

or something like that.

[deleryn]

I think that poison doesn't count as an attack, just a status, so poisoning an unbreakable unit wouldn't mess with its recovery.

This is interesting to consider, but does attacking an unbreakable unit break focus? This would cause frost golems and chanties to pwn, because you'd have to break the hargyn's focus, then the unit's.

[Cross Punisher]

I think that poison doesn't count as an attack, just a status, so poisoning an unbreakable unit wouldn't mess with its recovery.Whether poison is as attack is arguable, but the whole process the Wisp goes throught is attacking in this case simply because at the end of each turn 4 damage is done; because an Unbreakable unit takes no damage it has no choice but to suffer +1 recovery and -1 movement.

This is interesting to consider, but does attacking an unbreakable unit break focus? This would cause frost golems and chanties to pwn, because you'd have to break the hargyn's focus, then the unit's.The Unbreakable units are not in focus, they are being focused on by the Hargyn, so all you need to do is break the Hargyn's focus. Note though that since paralysis deals no damage, if an Unbreakable unit is paralyzed, it will still be paralyzed but it won't suffer +1 recovery and -1 movement from simply being paralyzed.

[smokeyham94]

Ok, I get this now. So the unbreakable unit doesnt have to be killed for the game to be over. I see

[deleryn]

The Unbreakable units are not in focus, they are being focused on by the Hargyn, so all you need to do is break the Hargyn's focus.

You misunderstood me. I was talking about an unbreakable unit with a focus attack. Could a normal attack break focus if it doesn't do any damage? Does it work like a barrier ward or like 100% armor?

[yall are ded]

Nice one crossy:)

[Cross Punisher]

You misunderstood me. I was talking about an unbreakable unit with a focus attack. Could a normal attack break focus if it doesn't do any damage? Does it work like a barrier ward or like 100% armor?Oh, yes an attack can break an Unbreakable unit's focus.
Nice one crossy:) Thx:)
Ok, I get this now. So the unbreakable unit doesnt have to be killed for the game to be over. I seeActually I'm afraid that yes Unbreakable units do have to be killed. It doesn't serve any purpose to say Unbreakable units don't count as endgame units because the Hargyn DOES count as an endgame unit and without the Hargyn, there are no Unbreakable units. By saying, Unbreakable units don't count as endgame units, you're basically making the Hargyn the ultimate endgame unit behind a frost golem and enchantress.

[yall are ded]

Ok I can only see one problem with this corss.
Consider this. Your opponent rushes at you all gave but he sucks and you just pwn the crap out of him. The only problem is your muddie and scouts and frosty are gone. Now your opponent has a knight and a cleric left alongside his hargyn. You have 6 units ready to pwn him.He huddles his units along the corner like this
oxkoe
oche
eee
e=edge of arena
0=empty space
c=cleric
k=knight
h=hargyn
Now if you have no ranged unit left you will not be able to break this formation. becasue to unbreak his focus you need to get past the unbreakable units and to ge to the unbreakable units you need to get to the hargy. Now this situation may be cool but it will be annoying. It also changes the way that you play. You ussually try to save knight or dragon for the end but this way you will need at least a scout,mage frost,poison wisp,dmw,or chanty.

[The Coder]

Game Guide - Rule Book - 4. Special Abilities - 4.6 states, "Unbreakable units cannot be damaged or destroyed" here (http://www.tacticsarena.com/guide/rules.php). Strange thing is there are no units currently that possess the ability of this "Unbreakable," so I thought I'd give you all my take on it.



I noticed they didn't have any trophies either, but I couldn't think of any good ones...

[lthlinjction]

nice unit, props Cross

[Cross Punisher]

Ok I can only see one problem with this corss.
Consider this. Your opponent rushes at you all gave but he sucks and you just pwn the crap out of him. The only problem is your muddie and scouts and frosty are gone. Now your opponent has a knight and a cleric left alongside his hargyn. You have 6 units ready to pwn him.He huddles his units along the corner like this
oxkoe
oche
eee
e=edge of arena
0=empty space
c=cleric
k=knight
h=hargyn
Now if you have no ranged unit left you will not be able to break this formation. becasue to unbreak his focus you need to get past the unbreakable units and to ge to the unbreakable units you need to get to the hargy. Now this situation may be cool but it will be annoying. It also changes the way that you play. You ussually try to save knight or dragon for the end but this way you will need at least a scout,mage frost,poison wisp,dmw,or chanty.Thats situation is possible when you look at it like that, but it's very unlikely to happen in a real game. First off that scenario requires at least 2 most likely 3 full turns and you already having your Hargyn in a corner. I think it's very unlikely that somone would just make 2 units Unbreakable and then keep the Hargyn enclosed in the corner with them. If that happened you really shouldn't have a problem dealing with their remaining 7 units with your 10 units. Lastly that situation is just like putting your cleric in a corner and surrounding it with a Barrier Ward and a Lightning Ward; your opponent should be able to see what you are/have done and counter it before things go so far as that he's not able to get to the unit in the corner.

That is a good concern you have though, but I think it's naturally balanced that way.

[Death Shot]

Kudos to Cross for an awesomo unit.

[$20 Gold Coin]

Great unit idea, but the range you specified would be impossible to use because you can't change an attack pattern.

[Cross Punisher]

Great unit idea, but the range you specified would be impossible to use because you can't change an attack pattern.I don't really understand what you exactly mean, but you should just try to think in more creative ways because I see a quite easy way the attack pattern can be implemented thats the same basic principle that the pyromancer and stone golem uses. When you're in the attack phase select the Hargyn and you will see these squares in yellow:

H - Hargyn
X - Pattern

X
X
H

If you select the "X" that is adjacent to the Hargyn your targets will be:

H - Hargyn
X - Targets

X
X
H


If you select the "X" that is 2 squares away from the Hargyn your targets will be:

H - Hargyn
X - Targets

X X
H

See not as impossible as you thought.

[Cross Punisher]

EDIT: oops m fngr slppd
:sorry: :sorry:

[actionjack]

A good and orignal idea, very nice.

I think should increase the movement to 3, and maybe a attack pattern of
X
X
XHX

But I also think the special ablity is bit too complicated. So it make units Unbreakable, which take no damage, but can still be heal? I am also assume Hargyn need to maintain focus. To some degree, seem very much like another version of the barrier ward.

Also might make a lock game, by making a Barrier ward unbreakable, than cast a barrier on the Hargyn. (or just have two Hargyn)

[Cross Punisher]

A good and orignal idea, very nice.

I think should increase the movement to 3, and maybe a attack pattern of
X
X
XHX

But I also think the special ablity is bit too complicated. So it make units Unbreakable, which take no damage, but can still be heal? I am also assume Hargyn need to maintain focus. To some degree, seem very much like another version of the barrier ward.When I was working on the unit I was actually thinking of a movement of 3 which might not be a bad thing, but I really don't think it's needed. It's like the HP and recovery of the Hargyn - they just don't really matter. Would it really matter if a Stone Golem had 100 HP? Not really because once the focus of said unit is broken that unit is temporarily useless until you can get units into it's attack pattern. Also only potentially in-game mods would have the possibility to have more than one Hargyn, and like I said just because a unit is Unbreakable doesn't mean its focus can't be broken.

I don't really like that attack pattern because it allows a total of 4 units to be Unbreakable which I feel is just too much. 3 would be pushing it but 4 really is just too much. The thing about healing I already mentioned that an Unbreakable unit suffers the same effect when effected by an HP effecting attack, so yes healing an Unbreakable unit does give the +1 rec,-1 mov penalty, and yes I agree it can be seen as very similar to the BW.

Also might make a lock game, by making a Barrier ward unbreakable, than cast a barrier on the Hargyn. (or just have two Hargyn)You know actually that situation you just mentioned never crossed my mind while I was making this unit... but luckily I do such a great job of balancing my units that situations like this just balance themselves out ;). In the situation you mentioned simply attack the focused BW to break the barrier on the Hargyn, and even if the BW wasn't in focus remember that Unbreakable units do not block.

:)

EDIT - Sorry I had the same sentence in here like 4 times, now it should only be 2

EDIT to actionjack's post below this one
Unbreakable units cannot be damaged or destroyed but yes focus can be broken. I guess you could say it's like whatever damage(or healing) is reduced to 0, so even though no damage is done any focus the Unbreakable unit might be in is lost. In your question about poison, after the poisoned unit becomes Unbreakable it will stop taking damage and instead take the +1 rec,+1 mov penalty and will suffer the other side effects of poison, that is not being able to move aside for friendly units, or attack while poisoned.

[actionjack]

So to make clear (maybe add it in in your edit)

Unbreakable will make a unit not take any damage or be destory, but can break its focus if it is maintain a focus of some sort? And what about posion?, if you are already posion before you become Unbreakable, will you still take damage?

----------------------------
2nd reply

If so, than I found this unit to be limited (unless I am not seeing some stategy for it) since its target range is so short, most units would be able to attack the Hargyn whitin the next turn, breaking it, before it got hit from any other source. (I don't think making them Unbreakable count as one stunt). You could say it would work better on recovering units, but given its recover and movement, Enchantress would be much better for the task.

[Cross Punisher]

2nd reply

If so, than I found this unit to be limited (unless I am not seeing some stategy for it) since its target range is so short, most units would be able to attack the Hargyn whitin the next turn, breaking it, before it got hit from any other source. (I don't think making them Unbreakable count as one stunt). You could say it would work better on recovering units, but given its recover and movement, Enchantress would be much better for the task.I'm not really sure what you're actually talking about anymore. How would an enchantress be a better choice?

[Alaric]

the diffence between a bw and hargn is that unbreakable units can attack and, for a while, move. if u barrier a scout near a lw to protect it it is useless. if u make a scout near a lw unbreakable, it can still kill then enemy cleric etc. That the stategy. Like the chanty it would be foolish to throw th hagryn unto the front earlier. that means it will inevitably require skill to keep alive and apply. So yes, I do like it and understand it and think it is very balanced.

[Cross Punisher]

I found the Hargyn itself to vulnerable to movement has been upped (as suggested :dry: ) to 3.Oh well

Though I'm glad everyone likes the unit because focus units are the tightest :)

[ks5bns]

i like the idea

[The AIDS Virus]

Oh la la. Me likey mucho cross. 10/10

[Biohazard77]

Wow......
I haven't seen anything this good in ages.
Excellent job.
P.S. How long did this take you ?

[Cross Punisher]

Wow......
I haven't seen anything this good in ages.
Excellent job.
P.S. How long did this take you ?
This was my first unit in about 4 months and I usually just go from one unit to the next, but this one took about a week to think up all the stats and then maybe another week of just playing with it in my head.

[Biohazard77]

Well, it is an excellent idea.
Just wish i would have thought of it first :P

[Cross Punisher]

I currently have something else in the works but it won't be as *CantThinkOfTheRightWord* as this.

But the OH/JH/JA will own :cool:

[scb]

I think barrier and unbreakable are the same thing...

[Cross Punisher]

I think barrier and unbreakable are the same thing...
:huh:

I think barrier and unbreakable are not the same thing...

[scb]

Ah, I think unbreakable is only a feature of "trophy units" (mentioned on the same page and als nonexistent). It isn't a status change, it is an ability. So no, not a barrier :) But I think that treating it as a status change would make it far too much like a barrier.

[Cross Punisher]

Ah, I think unbreakable is only a feature of "trophy units" (mentioned on the same page and als nonexistent). It isn't a status change, it is an ability. So no, not a barrier :) But I think that treating it as a status change would make it far too much like a barrier.That's what I do. Take something bend it's boundaries a bit and make it mine - "One who walks in another's tracks leaves no footprints." Trophies are meant for showing off hence the name. I have no Trophy, and I've never faced anyone who used a Trophy. While I know Trophies are Unbreakable, "Trophy units: (a)have no HP (b)AND cannot be destroyed (c)AND cannot be the target of Healing or Focus Spells (d)AND cannot move or attack." Notice however that nowhere is there a set connection between Trophy units and the special ability of Unbreakable. The unit closest to this in the game is the Barrier Ward leaving you with no choice but to compare the two, but they are also different in drastic ways.