Is CAU pointless?

[deleryn]

Well, I was going to post something in Suggestions about letting someone moderate CAU, but I searched and saw that Hellblazer already suggested it. I read through some of the pages there and saw something that Jeffery posted. "CAU is nothing but a waste of diskspace" or something like that.

Well, considering that the committee's totally laxed out and that I haven't seen a really good unit for a while, I've sort of been thinking about it. I used to think that things would be higher quality if there were some moderation or if the newbies would take a hint from the vets. But then I started thinking, "even when things are in full swing, does CAU ever amount to anything more than something to keep the n00bs out of GD?" Or maybe its actually something to keep "new unit" ideas out of the Suggestions section, for some sadistic sort of "organize away everything you don't care about".

I mean, Seed never looks at these. Nothing in CAU has ever developed into the game. Sure, a good unit is interesting to think about for a while and then everyone forgets about it. And noobs are always around to cause headaches and negfests. It doesn't take up anywhere near as much as GD, but what if giving up CAU could benefit the rest of TAO somehow? Is this even anything but a joke at Bills' expense?

I dunno. But this poll should be interesting. :D

Edit: I took a little while in the malicious crafting of this poll. :butcher:

[I BEAT MATHEWS]

Poll?

I don't think it is worth anything other than fun for some people, I have tried to get into it, but it is too boring. Seed won't even glance at the units.

[smokeyham94]

I was starting to think about that a few days ago...
Maybe CAU is a recycle bin forum...
I don't like GD. You have to start your own thread or atleast read about 3 pages to figure out what people are talking about.
I'm thinking of leaving TAO forums... It's better to just hang out in server lobbies or talk to your clanmates.

[Riathmus]

It is sort of pointless. None of the units that are suggested are good. It's become a degrading experience to me to have to shoot down every unit suggested because either:
A. It's overpowered
or:
B. It's unoriginal and overpowered

[lthlinjction]

Maybe, because it doesn't really matter and I don't care.

yea, i voted that. because its true.

[Kyir]

It's hella fun, and gives me chances to flame, 5 stars!

[lthlinjction]

well of course its fun, but does it actually mean anything?

[Riathmus]

You made the poll MC dude;)

[Kurdish]

Im quiting rite.......................... NOW! And maybe ill be on.......... NOT!!!! Im gone, cya guys and Im gone foreva, this guy has a point. Cause theres no action in this game, and if you win. All you win is some Stats that dont help you at all! Congrats! And then it takes like 30 minutes before the game is over! K bye bye guys!

[Cuathon]

CAU is worthless in that it will never effect the game. the intellectual excercise however was fun and valueble.

[Kyir]

well of course its fun, but does it actually mean anything?

Possibly, but it costs next to nothing (if anything) to keep up

[Stupendous Man]

How is CAU any more pointless than TAO?

[lthlinjction]

Possibly, but it costs next to nothing (if anything) to keep up
the cost isnt really a problem, but the fact that it is completely useless does make you think whether or not its worth having.

[Hellblazer]

Actually, CAU used to be pretty cool. Now it's full of noobs.

[lthlinjction]

yea, used to be. like when LT still made units. after that, it got kinda stupid.

[Hellblazer]

yea, used to be. like when LT still made units. after that, it got kinda stupid.
No offence, but you missed the golden CAU days. Mith left before you joined, I believe.

[lthlinjction]

no, i was here for a little bit before mith left. not sure i saw many of his units, but my real join date is somewhere around September.

[Hellblazer]

no, i was here for a little bit before mith left. not sure i saw many of his units, but my real join date is somewhere around September.
Ah....my mistake.

[gryph89]

Im not sure, or if I've been lead to a false angle, but I remember hearing the Beast Rider was made in one of these CAU threads.

[Cross Punisher]

Do any of you guys actually ever search the forums and look at units that have been suggested before instead of saying stuff like "I was here for a little bit before he left, but I didn't see many of his units. CAU isn't as fun as it used to be because most people like Riathmus are convinced none of the new units are good because everyone would rather respond to Ducky Doodoo's random posts and make fun of him when he's not even responding to your post, then post on a good thread

[uniquinous]

This is a space to share and discuss ideas, no different then any other subforum on these boards. It just happens to be a bit more focused and this can amount to a rather dull experience for most people. Now, three things I must discuss:

1) Personally I also believe the large majority (99%+) of the units created here are poorly made (and I do come in with an open mind). The fact is, there's not too much we can really do with the current game, and thus choices of good new units are incredibly limited. Regardless of this fact, people continue to spew out unit after overkill-unit. They do so in a manner, most times, which would change gameplay. Some people post in a manner that actually changes the core of the game paradigm itself. Regardless, there is clearly a need for such an outlet, even if most people can only flame what comes out of this subforum. If the creativity exists in some great quantity, it should be fullfilled regardless of quality - simple as that. People who don't like it need not visit.

2) Given the fact that a ton of units are made here, chances are somehow an actual created unit might exhibit similar qualities. Again, there are so many options, and the *good* creators know how to extrapolate the few things that could be unique and great. There are a set number of variables creators can mess with, and hundreds of units created. Yeah, you'd expect a match here and there.

3) The create a unit committee (or equivalent name) is useless. That's not meant to offend anyone on it, as (to be honest) I don't even know who is on it. It's the idea itself that I find bogus. Again, the purpose of these forums is to share ideas and promote discussion. To say a certain group of people are better at assessing ideas/opinions is just a setup for trouble. Yes, an older experienced player *will* have a better perspective then a complete noob, but coercing some title for that player to hold some sort of dominion over the other is unnecessary. I'd rather see every single unit have a poll attached to it (perhaps that can be designed as the last decision of this committe) which allows players to see how the general community views their units. The only problem with this is that top units wouldn't necessarily be placed in a sticky, but I ask how many of the hardcore CAU-ers actually reference that sticky (for more then just their own works). I can assure you no noobs do. Furthermore, this can be rectified by allowing units that break a certain % of yes votes into the sticky. Lastly, votes should come in *after* discussion and tweaking (so polls don't open until 3 days after the thread is created).

Just my 10002 cents.

[Kyir]

Anyone who has any idea what they're doing here should no that there's no chance of anything being made, It's just somthing fun to do. It is less and less fun with the lack of vets, and overload of nubs though.

[Hellblazer]

Anyone who has any idea what they're doing here should no that there's no chance of anything being made, It's just somthing fun to do. It is less and less fun with the lack of vets, and overload of nubs though.
That about sums it all up.

[Teacher]

Anyone who has any idea what they're doing here should no that there's no chance of anything being made, It's just somthing fun to do. It is less and less fun with the lack of vets, and overload of nubs though.

Would it not be beneficial then to train the overload of nubs to make it interesting again? I don't CAU because my imagination sucks, but I do look at the new units that come out. I agree most of them are lacking in power or over powered. What I mostly see is about 99% of people telling the "nub" that his unit is "overpowered, underpowered, or not original" then say very little to actually explain as to why it is this way. So the "nub" asks why it's over, under powered, and this seems to infuriate the CAU community more and he begins to get flamed for being a "nub".

My next question I wonder about is how someone comes up with an original unit that isn't over or under powered. I'm not sure how long CAU has been going on but I would think at least a year or two. This is a lot of units that have come out, where would one begin to come up with something original when having to sift through 1000's of units already made.

As far as getting rid of it, although it apparently is not going to be helpful as far as the game is concerned it does give people a place to try to use their imagination and talk with one another. I personally don't believe the trouble is in the "nubs" the trouble is all the people that have been here a long time and do not know how to give proper constructive criticism, they would rather just tell the person, his/her units sucks and to leave. So if you fix the problem, (poor attitudes towards nubs) then the nub can grow and possibly make better units.

[deleryn]

"Training"? We already do a number of things to try and get them to post intelligently. We ask them to search for similar units and use good grammar. Certainly, many CAUers don't support their statements because they find their reasoning obvious, but there's only so much vets can do to get the newbies on the right track.

I think that there's been a lack of will or something. The newbies don't care about polishing or strategy, they just want to see the game get bigger and better. TAO already has an excellent unit library, but the newbies must think that their useless posts here can expand it. There are enough hints and statements in these threads to figure out what constitutes a good unit, some people just need to get serious about finding them.

[Teacher]

Ok, but nubs are just that, nubs. It is possible that their main function in the forums is the CAU in which case they apparently don't read enough to know how to search for these rules. I'm not saying all of them are good there are quite a few, like Ducky for example who are perfect examples of a waste of time. Others really do try, but your dealing with different age groups, maybe they don't comprehend the rules they are reading. There are a lot of different variables there.
I suppose that if the majority share your veiwpoint, then maybe CAU should be shut down to cause less headaches for everyone.

Back to the unoriginal concept, how does someone come up with an original unit when so many have been done before? I have seen some extremely far fetched units and wondering how it even belongs on TAU's battlefield ie. (water based units) yet they are still told that the unit is unoriginal.

[Hellblazer]

Would it not be beneficial then to train the overload of nubs to make it interesting again? I don't CAU because my imagination sucks, but I do look at the new units that come out. I agree most of them are lacking in power or over powered. What I mostly see is about 99% of people telling the "nub" that his unit is "overpowered, underpowered, or not original" then say very little to actually explain as to why it is this way. So the "nub" asks why it's over, under powered, and this seems to infuriate the CAU community more and he begins to get flamed for being a "nub".
The vets do, at least. I don't as much as I should, but you'll see people like CP or legacy giving help.

My next question I wonder about is how someone comes up with an original unit that isn't over or under powered. I'm not sure how long CAU has been going on but I would think at least a year or two. This is a lot of units that have come out, where would one begin to come up with something original when having to sift through 1000's of units already made.
Do what I do: get an idea from something you may have seen, give it stats and some ability that matches the idea. Most of the time that ability is original.

As far as getting rid of it, although it apparently is not going to be helpful as far as the game is concerned it does give people a place to try to use their imagination and talk with one another. I personally don't believe the trouble is in the "nubs" the trouble is all the people that have been here a long time and do not know how to give proper constructive criticism, they would rather just tell the person, his/her units sucks and to leave. So if you fix the problem, (poor attitudes towards nubs) then the nub can grow and possibly make better units.
That is a great point, but aimed wrong. The newbs are fine and are to be helped. The nubs, like ducky, are complete idiots that deserve nothing short of flaming.

[deleryn]

Well, unoriginal can actually mean a lot of things. I tend to use it when a certain unit idea has been butchered, i.e. a necromancer, dark knight, war horse (even though Mith made one, heh), catapult, or another kind of scout. I also use it with vayring degrees based on how many times I've seen it, so if someone tried to make a necromancer, I'd say "That's completely unoriginal," whereas some kind of water golem would get "Your idea isn't too original". I try to give examples when I think that a certain unit is similar to maybe one or two other units.

I don't think that complete originality is possible, but it is neat when units have an interesting background. I sort of stressed this a little more than I should have way back in the day. The descriptive paragraph is purely for aesthetic pleasure, but sometimes I find myself thinking that a unit is "original" when it isn't just looking at the excess.

Some people might tend to use the "originality" when talking about an attack type, though. I don't know if this is what you were talking about, but a water unit made a while ago was basically a dark magic witch with a different description. Similarly, a unit that is basically a scout with less range and more power isn't very original because it doesn't add anything really interesting.

Semantics is annoying. :dry:

[weasel35]

Maybe, because it doesn't really matter and I don't care. = my answer

[Hellblazer]

Maybe, because it doesn't really matter and I don't care. = my answer
So why bother posting if you don't care? Not a great first post, my friend.

[Kyir]

Would it not be beneficial then to train the overload of nubs to make it interesting again? I don't CAU because my imagination sucks, but I do look at the new units that come out. I agree most of them are lacking in power or over powered. What I mostly see is about 99% of people telling the "nub" that his unit is "overpowered, underpowered, or not original" then say very little to actually explain as to why it is this way. So the "nub" asks why it's over, under powered, and this seems to infuriate the CAU community more and he begins to get flamed for being a "nub".

My next question I wonder about is how someone comes up with an original unit that isn't over or under powered. I'm not sure how long CAU has been going on but I would think at least a year or two. This is a lot of units that have come out, where would one begin to come up with something original when having to sift through 1000's of units already made.

As far as getting rid of it, although it apparently is not going to be helpful as far as the game is concerned it does give people a place to try to use their imagination and talk with one another. I personally don't believe the trouble is in the "nubs" the trouble is all the people that have been here a long time and do not know how to give proper constructive criticism, they would rather just tell the person, his/her units sucks and to leave. So if you fix the problem, (poor attitudes towards nubs) then the nub can grow and possibly make better units.

They can learn themselfs, that might sound mean, stupid whatever, but I highly doubt half the people here could make a good unit if their life depended on it.

[uniquinous]

You can't train the noobs - that's impossible, and here's why: There is just too large a turnover. What I mean by that is that a noob will come here, post 2-3 poorly made units, and leave, never to return. Sometimes this is in fact because of the flaming, but mostly, they just don't have the intellectual attention span to constructively discuss these types of things past "that's cool!". As such, many noobs come and go very frequently. As none stay here long enough, it makes the teaching targets rather inaccessible and hard to actually teach.

[The AIDS Virus]

Couldn't the mods put like a post limit on that part of the forums though...like 500 posts and you can look at CAU, that way you don't get complete noobs posting horrible units.

[Teacher]

Uni you made a very good point and I must admit I didn't account for the people that only posts a few times then dissapear. Well those were my only ideas that may help it out some. T.A.V.'s idea is good but I think the posts count should be a little lower and maybe add in a limit of rep. Other than that I guess all one can do is continue doing what has been done, flaming the people for making bad units and complaing about it. I still think that it should remain here, there are people that apparently take CAU very seriously and enjoy using their imagination to make new units.

[The AIDS Virus]

Uni you made a very good point and I must admit I didn't account for the people that only posts a few times then dissapear. Well those were my only ideas that may help it out some. T.A.V.'s idea is good but I think the posts count should be a little lower and maybe add in a limit of rep. Other than that I guess all one can do is continue doing what has been done, flaming the people for making bad units and complaing about it. I still think that it should remain here, there are people that apparently take CAU very seriously and enjoy using their imagination to make new units.
I was just giving an example, I think it's a litle high myself. I don't think it'll ever happen though due to the unchanging forums that refuse to change. At least some people still make good units that are worth looking at and try to be original, I'm thankful for that much.

[Kurdish]

What is CAU? Anybody tell what it stands for?

[Kurdish]

Im not sure, or if I've been lead to a false angle, but I remember hearing the Beast Rider was made in one of these CAU threads.

Wait? Are u serious? Can u give me the link plz!

[Serge]

No it's not useless. It's fun.

[Cross Punisher]

Is CAU pointless?In short, it's just as pointless as every other section of the TAO forum.
My next question I wonder about is how someone comes up with an original unit that isn't over or under powered. I'm not sure how long CAU has been going on but I would think at least a year or two. This is a lot of units that have come out, where would one begin to come up with something original when having to sift through 1000's of units already made.I can't go around telling all my secrets now can I?;)

Uni's reason for not being able to help most noobs is also my reason: most of them don't want any help; most don't read the guidelines; most don't look around at units that were considered good in their threads; most don't do a search for similar units; most don't know how to conduct a proper search; most don't even ever come back to look at the replys they got. Many times I've been busy responding to a post that I felt was kinda interesting only to notice that the creator has like 10 posts and hasn't ever responded to the thread or even been online since they made it. Most "noobs/nubs" don't listen to what I have to say anyway because as mostly anyone that knows me will tell you I really do mostly only give you constructive critisicm. I can't really dumb down what I'm saying so most of the time any concern I have is ignored because they can't understand what I'm saying.

What is CAU? Anybody tell what it stands for?
:huh: CAU = Create A Unit
Stuff like this just drives people crazy. Why don't people at least TRY and think for themselves?

[Kurdish]

Yeh Serge... Its fun for you because you made The Berserker! But its not like you got credit. Barely anyone knows you made him.

[Cross Punisher]

Yeh Serge... Its fun for you because you made The Berserker! But its not like you got credit. Barely anyone knows you made him.
I'm sure for Serge, it's not about being recognized and getting credit for it. I know the unit you're talking about and it does greatly resemble the Berzerker, but I'm sure not even Serge would take credit by saying he made the unit that closest resembles the newest unit.

[DeadFishGuy]

I think CAU is a lot of fun. It's an excellent creative outlet.

But perhaps we could place some restrictions on it, just to filter out all the crap that the forum has become saturated with.

If there is a newbie with a good idea, they should be ok with waiting for clearance.

[Serge]

Come on, I expected better from you, DFG.

No facism here! If you want to make a thread, make it, so long as it falls within forum guidelines. No, the better solution is for us CAU vets to ignore stupid threads completely. Don't even post in them to flame, if they get no replies, they'll stop making stupid threads.

[DeadFishGuy]

I suppose you're right about restrictions being a bit harsh.

Ignoring them seems like a good idea, but I'm not sure if it will work. It will definitely clear up at least some of the bad threads, but you will still get people who just don't get it and keep posting bad units. They are usually the most annoying and the most difficult to ignore.

[Serge]

Just ignore them! I've been doing it for, well, ever since I started CAU'ing. Just don't post in their threads, the hard part is the idiots posting in other idiots threads. Anyways, good to see you again!

[DeadFishGuy]

Thanks!

I'll give ignoring a shot. However, it would involve not posting in several threads, which sort of defeats the point of returning.

[Serge]

Haha, I didn't think of that, if we ignore all the idiots we have nothing to do unless there are some non-idiots posting threads. *Posts Thread*

[DeadFishGuy]

So we desatuarate CAU by getting more smart people to post?

That could work. It would make the bad units easier to ignore too.

[Jeffery]

I like the last two opetions. ;)

The ONLY useful thing to come out of here (or almost) was when a seperate game completey said it would try and develope one unit from here for it;s game.

Basically, CAU is a creative graveyard, because as soon as a unit is designed, it's dead here.

The ONLY benefit CAU has is that it gives people a place to try and be creative, and almost feel like something they say might be used.

[Serge]

Jeffery is useless.

Actually, that's not true, Jeffery knows almost everything, because he is the internet.

[Anarchy_United]

CAU used to be cool and shit, when I first started playing. (November 05')
Ents, Grapnel Warrior are my to favorite units. I know that most of you are like, WTF is the worlds funniest noob talking about CAU for, and I will tell you. I used to just read, and read the units as a guest, back when almost all the units were good, and thought provoking. Then, when I came back in september, I came back to find that my CAU had been trashed, adn fallen to the noobs. CAU used to be great, and tons of fun for those who liked it, and everyone who doesn't like it, just doesn't understand.