ToS & Filter

[drakonfire]

okay here is what the Tos (Terms of Service) says in regards to language/explicit content

4. Your Use of Tactics Arena Online.

A. You are entitled to use Tactics Arena Online for your own personal use, but you shall not be entitled to

(viii) transmit or post sexually explicit images or other content which in the sole discretion of Flash Player Studios, Inc. is deemed to be offensive; nor shall you transmit any unlawful, harmful, threatening, abusive, harassing, defamatory, vulgar, obscene, hateful, racially, ethnically, or otherwise objectionable content



now then, Flash Player Studios Inc. (Bills, DivineRight, etc.) has apparently deemed swaring to be objectionable content, and have thusly implemented a filter to remove such content from their servers... u as a paying member or not, have no right to complain about the filter, when u signed up, u agreed to the ToS, its like a contract, if u signed up to work somewhere and in ur contract it said u could not swear while u were working (I.E. from 9-5, excluding ur lunch break) and u proceded to swar to ur boss because u didnt like this clause, AFTER U SIGNED, u would be canned, no questions asked, and believe it or not, the ToS outlines that FPS Inc. can in fact, WITHOUT NOTICE (I.E. no warning) kick u

B. In the event that you violate any of the foregoing provisions, Flash Player Studios, Inc. may at its option and without notice to you (i) temporarily suspended your access to Tactics Arena Online; or (ii) immediately terminate your access to Tactics Arena Online;


now that nice lovely warning they posted on the home page about the filter? thats far more warning than they were ever required to give the rest of us, they wrote a script that detects words they have deemed objectionable, and once it finds this content, supspends access from the person who posted said objectionable content, this suspension results in a disconnect and a loss on ur part if u r in game, but this is only temporary, u can instantly reconnect, be thankful they didnt invoke the second part of that clause and just ban u the instant u swore


now if anyone can provide one valid argument as to why the TAO admins r not within their rights to implement this filter, by all means, do so


but if u cant, then stop whining and moaning, make suggestions such as "Does hitler really need to be considered objectionable? i've never his name used in a dorogatory manner, could we remove this word and see if ppl start abusing it and then maybe put it back on if it becomes a problem?"

not "I JUST GOT KICKED FOR SAYING HITLER!!! WHAT IN THE WORLD?!?!?!?! WHY DONT U JUST TAKE AWAY OUR CHAT TAO ADMINS?! IT WOULD HAVE THE SAME EFFECT!"


now i've seen several reasonable suggestions, such as a filter disable button once a match starts, so that if both players agree, all bets r off as far as language goes, why dont u all get behind that? the admins r much more likely (in my opinion anyway) to make this small concession to u guys instead of just removing the filter all together


in closing i say get use to it or get out, this is my 2 cents, my rant, my opinion, feel free to add to it or refute as u see fit, just make sure u actually have a point

[Rescorlian]

Did you miss the point where the filter was implemented because of memebers or just decided to conveniantly ignore it? The filter was designed to stop those who aren't gonna follow the terms anyway. And I thought you said this was like a dictatorship, now it's a business make up your mind. As for the business you ever hear of a union? And how about you get paid to be at work, not pay to be there.

Now I have a question for you. Are you happy being a sheep? Hiding under the fox hole letting people walk over you? Well I personally prefer to take the risk and try to make something better. As I paid for it I have a right to do so.

You just keep coming up with the arguments and I'll keep giving you logical arguments. Also I have responded to each of your posts with logical arguments. Please show me the same respect and respond to mine on my thread. If by the time you read this you have already done so, my apologies this one took like 6 or 7 minutes to write.

[drakonfire]

yeah i did reply to ur other one


this IS a business, businesses r dictatorships, at least until they sell their stock


and the filter being implemented because of players, players complained and most likely wouldnt have gotten any results unless there was already something in the ToS, if the filter were merely because enough players complained and had no basis in the ToS, i would probably be on ur side in this, but it has a basis for being here, so i'm stickin with it

as to am i content to be a sheep? sure, as long as i've got a shepard who'll watch out for me, but to many times i have NOT gotten involved in games where a swear filter has become an issue, i trusted the makers of the game would stick with their ToS, but instead i and others of like mind got walked all over with curses every other sentance after the ppl complaining got their way, this time i am taking a stand for something i beleive in, if FPS Inc. implements something in the future that i believe is un-fair to those of us who play the game, i will raise questions, but this filter, to me, is not something that needs to be debated, but since u and others feel it does, i'm sideing with the admins and stickin this out showing them they have support from ppl, i'm not gonna hide in a hole this time and wait for them to buckle, i'm gonna fight this at every turn until a reasonable compromise can be reached, or no compromise and the admins make it crystal clear that they r not removing the filter, no way no how

[meletus]

Bills, DivineRight, and whatever other staff they have locked in a closet out there are all listening. It shows since they did put the filter in place, they did bring back the Five Drop..(limited time only act now), they added two other servers as the interest grew, clan support was created, they are "working" on getting a gold server up, they are trying and with most start-ups it is these times that will make or break ya. There are so many fires that need to be put out what would you do first?

It is hard to argue or agree with anyone on the filter subject. There are so many posts on the subject it is unreal, however most of the posts are againest and that should really be considered.

As I have posted in the past, look at the ppl trying to get it shut-down or fixed. People aren't happy. And who are the majority of people not happy, Gold Members. Who pays for the servers? the Gold Members? The more who get upset and decide, "What is my five bucks paying for ?" the less and less likely it will be to watch things grow.

I think what TAO has does is put themselves in corner. They wanted to solve a problem and in some rights they have. Yes it is in their power do whatever they want, it's their rules their company. It is hard to make all the ppl happy all the time. There will always be problems.. It is just a matter of what are your more importnat problems.

The biggest problem is the enviroment they created. The game promotes have a good ranking and good tactics, but when your tactics become making sure you don't type the wrong thing it has become a irritant and the game suffers.

I currently agree the boot seems like a bad choice.. As many have mentioned words that don't make any sense for a blocked word are and all the filtered words are easily convertable like @sshole, Fvck, B@stard and everyones favorite g@y..

I think it would be in the best interest to continue to test the filter by blocking these choice words with the @#$% like Bills always mentions when he is asked what to do about the filtered words.

I don't see happy ppl and I would hate for a great game to go down the shitter for lack of support.

Sometimes it is better to take baby steps rather then jump. And this also goes for some of the post'ers who have their causes. Flaming isn't gonna get anyone anywhere.. just ask my buddies.

[drakonfire]

Originally posted by meletus
I currently agree the boot seems like a bad choice.. As many have mentioned words that don't make any sense for a blocked word are and all the filtered words are easily convertable like @sshole, Fvck, B@stard and everyones favorite g@y..

I think it would be in the best interest to continue to test the filter by blocking these choice words with the @#$% like Bills always mentions when he is asked what to do about the filtered words.



granted, but the ultimate point is the filter isnt gonna be totally removed, which is what most ppl seem to want, i've seen suggestion for the symbols before, and i honestly wouldnt mind, but so many ppl jump on the fact that the filter should just be straight up removed that it seems they wont settle for anything less

and sometimes u gotta fall before u can fly, give it time guys

[Snork]

Why do you consider it neccessary to swear during games? It's not a hard thing to avoid. It comes with manners.

I'd like to point out that the majority of the players around here seem to be young teens, even as young as 10. It's not about taking away your 'right to swear', it's about keeping them from being forced to see all the profanity and cybering that was happening.


However, there's only one fact that matters.
You signed a user agreement that indicated you wouldn't use bad language. And agreed that they could kick you out if they want to, for that or any reason.

It doesn't matter what we think should be allowed.
We signed a legal agreement, so we're bound by it.

Unless you had your fingers crossed when you signed. Although that's a grey area when it comes to legal challenges. :)

[Bills]

Originally posted by Rescorlian
Did you miss the point where the filter was implemented because of memebers or just decided to conveniantly ignore it? The filter was designed to stop those who aren't gonna follow the terms anyway.....


Rescorlian I have given up on you, all you do is complain either way...

Second cmment I'd like to make. Stop swearing you twits. It's not that damn hard. If you get booted this often I think it's a good time to learn some new words REALLY quick.

Geez grow up a little....

You all make huge "adult" sounding posts because you feel for some reason you think you have the right to call people gay? of fags? or yap about sex?

Shut up already. This is a game lobby not a "meet a mate" chat lobby. You want to be treated like adults then act like adults.

[S_K_O_F]

:):):):):):):):)

[Ali]

YEA TAKE THAT!

[ultraexactzz]

Summary of material originally posted by Bills


Stop swearing you twits.

Geez grow up a little....

Shut up already.

/fixed

[Joei]

It is within thier right, its just really annoying and really not that effective.

instead of kicking them everytime they say "ass" they could implement a warning first.

But it is thier right to kick you or even ban you without a warning for saying that. But most of the poeple are complaining are to make it a little more user friendly.

[Hashish_Scout]

Now, Bills, I think that was a little bit harsh on some of the people who have trying to come up with reasonable arguments.

I don't think we have a right to swear, and I don't think it should be removed. I don't think we should call people gay for kicks. In fact, i hate when people do that, since one of my absolute closest friends is a lesbian. What I suggest is that the swear filter be modified, since the people who seem to be suffering most are gold members who by accident swear once in a while. As a teenager, as most of us are, if their witch blocks from the side with 6 hp two spaces from your cleric and 1 turn left recovery, then it's practically ingrained in us to say "$@*#, why did she have to block?" in which case you are booted. Their record suffers because of that, and meanwhile people go around abusing the contract as much as ever with "HEY F@GGOT FACE, YOU SUCK!" and not getting booted.

BTW, has Shore and Chore been fixed yet? It seems to me that it's the only bug, so that's good, but I've gotten several losses from saying them with my slow learning curve.

I just wanted you to know that there are reasonable people out there, me yes but also others, who politely ask that the filter be changed. I'd also like to note that I'm hurt that you replied with such venom to this thread.

[ocorious]

it seems alot of people are using the i paid for it i should have it my way philosophy. but excuse me, what did u pay for? u paid to play the game. and paying does not give u a better voice then greys. so please drop im gold excuse. by playing this game we agreed to the contract. which gives us as much say as the admins will allow us. they can run this game how ever they see fit. they even offer us the chance to pay so that we can get new units and spice up the game. the filter stays. drakon has it right. stop trying to kill the thing. improve it. make it better. not much more u can do other then the words need to be tweaked. props to the admins. and thanks to drakon for finally giving a voice to cause of not changing the filter.


bit behind the timing of the threads i know, but school just started back up.

[Bills]

ass was removed from the filter after a few hours and whores and a bunch other will be removed soon, other wise it only blocks really pointless words.

[Hashish_Scout]

Well, i don't think I mentioned gold superiority anywhere in my post...and I think I specifically said I didn't want it removed. I don't see where this rebuttal is coming from, it's arguments don't match my post. I agree on most of those posts. Well, except that customers absolutely should have an important say in what goes into their product.

[ocorious]

wasnt in refrence to u mate, sorry.

[Ri'Orius]

Ocorious - I must point out that you're wrong when you say that Golds don't have more say than Greys. While officially they have no say, they have the Power of the Purse, a timeless strength.

(note that I'm reaching way back into my memories of junior high history, so please excuse any innaccuracies; I think my main point is correct, although some facts may be wrong)

In medieval Britain, when the people wanted a more democratic government, they created parliament, with two houses: House of Lords, which was an inheirited position, and House of Commons, an elected position. The House of Commons was the house that paid salaries to the King and the Lords. Thus, one of their greatest powers was that the King and Lords, who had the power, had to stay on their good sides or they would have their salaries cut.

The same sort of thing applies here: while the Golds can't really force their way, the administration must keep on their good sides to continue to be paid.


Back to the main argument, I must say that I am incredibly heartened by Bills' post. "Stop swearing you twits" will have to go into my signature.

About the request to have swear words replaced with symbols: I was amazed by the administration's decision to put some bite in their swear filter. They aren't trying to just keep the swear words out, they're trying to keep the swearers out. If someone is so rude that they lack the restraint necessary to not type (not even say, but type, which is a step behind in even the most net savy person's train of thought), frankly I don't pity them for receiving a loss.

[Joei]

And they say you can't learn anything from games...

[Rescorlian]

Let me start off by saying to bills, that was far from necessary. I'd even go so far as to say the same to you. I saw no post backing me up when the filter first came out and everyone was complaining and I immediatly jumped to it's defense. Nor did I see a post on nice guy's when I had nothing but nice things to say. You have given up on me? Well it doesn't seem you ever put to much into me, so I aint to surprised or hurt.

Now I will say, that as I have read all (and I mean all) the posts a second time, I will agreee that it does good, and that @#$@ would be sufficient. I was really contesting the booting, but said it totally wrong. However my points still stand as they still have not been proved wrong by anyones arguments. Just flamed, offended and attempted assasination.

[Hashish_Scout]

I just had a brilliant idea! stands up, triumphant*

well, so its not that amazing. So bear with me.

make two new commands: /bleep and /remove, or so,ething to that effect.

/bleep turns the swear into nonsense characters

/remove erases the swears

The game is booting by default, and you have to be sixteen or older (or maybe older/younger, I don't know) and gold to use the bleep and remove commands.

That way, its more incentive to join, the younger and nonpayers still have the boot, and older golds still can't see the swears for good measure, but can make those evil boots go away.

[Rescorlian]

nice.. NICE!!! Now thats some construcitve thinking. Veryg ood. Better than I did.

[Ri'Orius]

I'm not sure what you're proposing, Hashish. Are you saying that 16+ Gold members would have their swears replaced by nonsense characters, but everyone else is booted?

Just trying to make sure that's what you're saying. It seems a bit... weird.

[DivineRight]

Rescorlian, before you jump all over Bills, before you go on this crusade against censorship I would just like to point out that you sent me quite a few e-mails about problem users who were extremely rude, vulgar and malicious. I would also like to point out that you were the one who made posts about the problem with cyber sex and other trash on our game servers. You were one of those people who pushed us to come up with the filter in the first place, so like it or not you were a big reason the filter came about.

Hashish, rather than refuse users who are under the age of 16, why not act like adults instead? You ask us to treat the members of TAO like adults but there are a large majority that refuse to act with decency and respect. If everyone was like you Hashish, then we would not have this problem, it would not even be a concern.

I can understand Bills and his frustration, you guys don't know the amount of hours and the level of commitment that he put (and continues to put) into Tactics Arena Online. While we are looking at improving the game, by implementing more fun and exciting changes (Clan options, Gold's server, ect.) time and time again we are forced to waste our time on something so trivial as the swear filter.

Its a new year, with new opportunities and possibilities. Its time to move on and focus on moving ahead, rather than remaining in the same place.

[Rescorlian]

I hear ya divine, I just felt my comments were warranted as his I felt had no objective except to offend me. And I have seen that the admin of this site are way above that.

I would also say that not once did I ask for a filter, (I don't think so anyways) I asked for in room mods. But once again I hear ya. I can only imagine the work you guys put into this site. And I don't imagine you get paid for it iether. I do however value the sanctity aswell as the conveniance of the players higher than the clan option or gold server. And that's saying alot as I have been looking forward to the gold server anxiously since I first heard of it. And I also like to add that as bills put in time so did I, (not even on the meter in comparisson but still) I was willing to give out my e-mail address and commit whatever time it took to help this site. And will continue to feel and do so for as long as I am here. I may sound hypocritical but if you read my words carefully you will realise they are not.

Yeah, hashish did better than I did. He is a larger part of the solution than I am, aswell as less of a problem.

[Bills]

Paert of the reaon live moderation is not effective is because banning IP from this app requires hardcoding them into the servers app.

It takes admin time to do that, mods would not be able to make these changes only boot out people swearing, but they can just create a new account and come back in.

Live moderation is not an option.

This game is very advanced but we are still limited as to what flash can do, IP banning with ease is currently not an option or we would have taken steps to make a mod team that can boot and delete accounts.

I shoudl have posated more on the backend info so people would underatand why this type of filter is in place and not other options as seen on other gaming sites.

[abyaly]

no ip banning in the near future, then?

[drakonfire]

not unless they hardcode it, which is a pain in the butt

[S_K_O_F]

Thank you bills for shedding a little light on the subject...

[Stormneedle]

A moderator on another board has this in her signature.

It seems to me that a lot of our potential bannings could be avoided with some very basic good manners. -Caterinka @ ipodlounge

I thought I loved that moderator. I love Caterinka more.

[Mike the Mauler]

now i've seen several reasonable suggestions, such as a filter disable button once a match starts, so that if both players agree, all bets r off as far as language goes, why dont u all get behind that? the admins r much more likely (in my opinion anyway) to make this small concession to u guys instead of just removing the filter all together

I like this idea. That way, if two consenting "adults" agree, they can talk as much smack to each other as possible. If this is not possible, tthen maybe clan speak could be made unfiltered? I would love to be able to say whatever I wanted to my own clan - if they found it objectionable they could simply boot the offending person out of the clan.

[Bills]

The filter is not something we want to keep coding or changing, it's a waste of time we have far better things we could be working on.

[Half-Mad]

The filter is a great thing. As is. There are gold members who would eventually leave if the filter was not there. Myself being one. I would not want to come here if it was filled with toddlers acting like toddlers.

I have been booted by the filter myself, due to forgetting it's there. I can deal with that.

I see no reason for the addition of ways around the filter. It would just encourage the toddlers. Also, as most toddlers don't have credit cards, most won't be getting gold accounts, and so won't be helping to pay for the game's existance.

There are a lot of people who do not complain or comment, because they believe the filter is a good thing, just as it is. So, any arguement about so many people complaining must mean the majority dislike it is wrong. A small number of people complain, and usually only when they first learn about the filter. Anybody else who continues to complain, or swear in the game, are idiots.

[Bills]

With the new filter we just put in place today you should only get booted off for saying really offensive stuff. I gave it a test and it seemed to work very well.

Also I'm am happy not to be seeing as many cuss words in the lobby chat area anymore.

Getting booted out of a game is like a slap on the wrist.:)

It's nice to see people standing up for this.

[Half-Mad]

The part of the filter that has gotten me booted a couple times has been removed! After being thanked for something, I typically say "you're whale cum". Used to get me booted, and is now allowed.

So much for getting drunk and forgetting about the filter. Now I just have to worry about getting drunk, and making stupid moves.


Why do I suspect that people will start complaining about language that should be added back on to the filter soon? There is always somebody to complain about whatever currently exists.

[BoBo The Fool]

First off, the issue of the filter was never one about rights and censorship. It's about customers not being happy. Yes, it is perfectily within the rights of TAO to do whatever they want with their game.... it IS their game. But it's like McD's putting black olives on all of their burgers. It's their right to do it, and some people may like it, but i'll garauntee that they'll go out of business if they stick to it.

ok, i now understand the admin's frustration with dealing with this filter instead of improving the game in more substantial ways. But to me, blocking or removing the swears instead of booting seem like an easy and benficial change (i'm really just guessing at it's ease).

One more point i'd like to make. 100% of my personal swearing is what i'd consider non-offensive. That is, none of my swear are directed directly at a person. I swear when there are bad blocks, not at the person, but just in general. The last tiem i got booted was because i mentioned something about "sitting on my ass". I know this may be a weak excuse, as swears for some reason are offensive in virtue of being swears, but in my own eyes i don't believe myself to be offending anyone.

[DivineRight]

Bobo, you are essentially saying "None of my crimes affect other people, I commit crimes to get a point across to and to show people my individuality".

YOU ARE STILL COMMITING A CRIME!

You actually expect me to take you seriouslly when you flat out admit that you are violating TAO's Terms of Service? You are offending others, you are offending me for one!

If you are right and all of my customers are rude, vulgar and malicious people then quite frankly its time to look for new customers don't you think? We are not introducing "olives", we are bringing to light our promise of a safe and comfortable gaming enviornment that people of all ages can enjoy.

You are right, we should not be babying our customers, replacing swear words would be exactly that. We are kicking people out who don't follow the rules and etiquette of our private company.

[BoBo The Fool]

Well, the reason why a crime is bad is because it affects other people..... isn't it?

anyway, i'll concede that point, i know it was a weak one.

But i've always thought the purpose of filters is to protect those in the community from offensive words. Blocking or replacing swears would do just that.

i'm dealing with the reasons behind the rules, not just the rules.

[Snork]

Originally posted by Half-Mad
"you're whale cum".

That's disgusting.
We need a filter for the discussion about the filter. :)

[dakar]

Originally posted by BoBo The Fool
But i've always thought the purpose of filters is to protect those in the community from offensive words. Blocking or replacing swears would do just that.

i'm dealing with the reasons behind the rules, not just the rules.

I think the aim they are going for is for something that can go into a child's cartoon show. You see fighting, you see attacking, but no blood, and nothing offensive is even suggested. You never saw the characters in TMNT bleep out words, for example.

If it couldn't get into a late-NES/early N64 game, it won't fly here. That's my guess as to the goal.

[jaydude6]

Originally posted by jaydude6
well, although i know what side i want to argue on, i have decided from the start that i'm going to try to be a mediator.
Look, I understand how both sides feel. Personally i don't like swearing either, and i understand some of you feel that you need to get the point across/ have a habit.
And the fact stands that something needs to bend.
look, group that needs to swear, when you signed on here you agreed to a fact that you wouldn't use vulgarity in your speak, ect.
and swearing is considered vulgar.
i'm sorry but you're going to have to give up on getting rid of the filter. if you feel mad about it, you do have one right. the right to leave.
And for those that want it out because of the use of chores or something like that, i can simpithise. the exact same thing happened to me.
But this system doesn't need to leave, it needs to be tweated.
I suggest this. Bills, if you can, you need to make it so that the system simply puts in @#$!@% symbols- with words that are not even anywhere near vulgar in the system you have to agree that this isn't fair to people that don't swear ever, let alone here. either that or the list needs to be modified.
To the rest of us-
the people that swear need to give up swearing
the people that want the filter out need to give up- it aint gonna happen.
the people that want change to happen- WAIT! ROME WASN'T BUILT IN A DAY!
i hope this might stop continuing arguements
edit- never mind... i didn't see the updates in the home page.
sorry for starting things up again if i did

[Rescorlian]

What to say. I'll start off by saying, Half-mad. I take your comment personally. I am not an idiot but feel that I have a voice and it should be heard. If you have a problem with the "complaining" then don't read. As for in game swearing wer're all human and we make mistakes. And I swear in everyday conversation failry often.... Damnit I waited 18 years to be old enough to do it I'm gonna do it now!!!!:D

Next I will re-iterate the filter is good, I was wrong with the removing, I will agree with this. I still don't like it but when weighed with pros and cons it is. One can not argue with logic. I agree toatlly with bobo (and all others) in that symbol replacement is plenty. The goal is to remove the offensive element from TAO. Also the suggestion for swear control (being members of age can choose) is an excellent idea.

And I still feel that resolving this situation is more important than unit development or gold server (even thoug I REALLY REALLY look forward to it). You have to get real work done before you get to play. Thus is the rule of responsability.


To bills, I had no idea that the other solution would be so difficult. thanx for the info, and, sniff, it hurts my feelings that you will, sniff, support and back others up when they defend sniff, the filter but when I did I was left to do it all on my own. I was the only one backing it up. And then when others do it sniff, they get praised?WAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!:D:D:D:D J/K

And I would like to leave a special note to jaydude6, hashish_scout, and all other who made suggestions. Nicely done. the next time something like this comes up, I will take the time to listen to you guys more carfeully.

And another special note to s.k.o.f Half_mad and all others who complained about our comments. Your input was the most useless of all. Infact it was useless period. Just another annoyance to muddle up affairs You were even less of the solution and more of the problem then I was.


And to both admins, thank you for taking the time to listen to us. We are paying customers and have a right to complain, but you don't have to listen to us, or explain yourselves. I left a post in nice guy's thread that says a little more.

Thios post is so huge as I felt it was necessary to get my thoughts (as of recent) down as it seems some people still have misconceptions. And some people needed some credit, and others needed to be informed that they were useless.

[S_K_O_F]

Thank you rescorlian, I continue enjoying your posts...They always give me this warm, fuzzy feeling inside! :):):)

[jaydude6]

well, i just got an idea.... i don't know if it is good or anything
since no matter what, even with all the filters and everything, people will get through, should we have an option where we can't recieve incoming chat, but can't send also?
just a thought.

[BoBo The Fool]

Originally posted by DivineRight
We are not introducing "olives", we are bringing to light our promise of a safe and comfortable gaming enviornment that people of all ages can enjoy.


I was thinking today at school about my McD's analogy and i've expanded it a bit. I think you ARE introducing olives.... humour me on this analogy.

Lets say McDonald's is getting a lot of complaints that the burgers are too bland. (like Resco complaining about the swearing). So the powers that be decide to give the burgers more kick by adding olives (implementing a swear filter). Sure, it solves the problem of the burgers being bland, but unfortunately there are a lot of people that hate olives. The head chef of McD's loves olives, and can't understand why people are complaining. Some people suggest replacing the olives with pickles, or mustard, since not as many people mind pickles or mustard. But the chef says "no, you have to learn to like olives, trust me, they're really realy good." The complaining customers get picked on for complaining, with replies like "just deal with it, i don't like olives either, but complaining's not going to change anything" and "it's within McD's rights to add olives to their burgers" etc. etc. McD's replies by saying "We are bringing to light our promise to serve great tating food"

does this story sound a little ridiculous to anyone? Divine, you say that you're not adding olives... but doesn't all of this resistence to the booting show that you are?

[Half-Mad]

Then stop buying hamburgers.
Or, in this case, take your gold account, and leave.

I'm sure you will be easily replaced.

[meletus]

Originally posted by Half-Mad
Then stop buying hamburgers.
Or, in this case, take your gold account, and leave.

I'm sure you will be easily replaced.

Its attitudes like this that are unnessecary. What good would come of telling everyone who doesn't think like you to leave?

[drakonfire]

Originally posted by BoBo The Fool
does this story sound a little ridiculous to anyone? Divine, you say that you're not adding olives... but doesn't all of this resistence to the booting show that you are?


yeah that sounds marginally ridiculous to me, perhaps because IT WOULD NEVER HAPPEN?! ya kno what, forget McDs anologies, THIS ISNT A RESTUARANT! this game is not something that caters to every indivuduals needs, it is mass produced to plz most everyone and if u dont like a certain aspect of it, u can get over it, its a minor annoyance at most, if u dont like the gameplay, well then u wouldnt be here, u dont like the clan system, u would probably just ignore it or ask that it be changed in some way that most ppl could agree on, u dont like the swear filter... STOP SWEARING this suggestion has been made over and over again and i dont see why its such a big deal! i mean honestly, u wanna swear, go ahead, swear at home when the witch makes a lucky block, but dont type the stupid thing out there isnt a point! goodness, i think the issue has been settled, the admins have said its not going away, and i doubt anything u say or do will change this


bobo the fool, how appropiate a name

[BoBo The Fool]

Drakon, i'm not sure if you understand the whole point of making analogies. At least you agree with me that it's ridiculous and would never happen. So, why would they do it on TAO?


Originally posted by drakonfire
u dont like the clan system, u would probably just ignore it or ask that it be changed in some way that most ppl could agree on

THAT'S A BRILLIANT IDEA!!!!!! oh wait.... except that if i asked them to change it in a way that most people agree on then i get people like you tell me to stop complaining and to leave if i dont' like it and all the other flame we get from you.



drakonfire, you spelled dragon wrong, what an appropriate name

[BoBo The Fool]

when the witch makes a lucky block, but dont type the stupid thing out there isnt a point!

There isn't a point to saying 'ow' when you get punched in the face either. You wanna bet that you'd say it anyway?


One of the best ways to make an internet game fun is to make it personal. The reason why i like multiplayer internet games is because i'm not playing a computer. Why are people better to play than computers? well there are several reasons, but the main reason is because of human interaction. This includes hearing them say things when they react to moves that you make, and vice versa.

[drakonfire]

DUDE?! really?! i did?! CRAP!!!! i cant believe that!!! i'm gonna go change it right now!!! oh and that story i've been wirtings, whos main characters name is Drakonfire, i'm gonna change that to, i cant believe i've ben such and IDIOt! wow!


what do u mean my obsession with making anologies, ur the one that sound around at skool thinking up ways to convince the tao admins with an anology


and when i said it would never happen, i mean at a McDs or arbys, or whatnot, those r resuraunts, made to cater to what u, the customer want, u order something, its made on the fly, here, this is a programmed game, u cant just say "i'd like one game with a grey, go light on the strategy oh and i wanna curse as much as possible... oh yeah and no catsup plz" this game is intended to be taken as is, at face value, and face value is what is programmed into it, u dont like part of it, u cant just order it a different way, u might be able to get enough ppl to convince the admins to change it, but at the rate things r going, i think it aint gonna happen... i mean the excuse "I curse all the time i'm a paying customer i want it my way" is wearing a tad thin at the moment

[drakonfire]

Originally posted by BoBo The Fool
There isn't a point to saying 'ow' when you get punched in the face either. You wanna bet that you'd say it anyway?


yeah i would say it, r u kidding? its a reaction, when something hurts i'm gonna say so, but it takes a little bit of effort to type something out and tap the enter key to let the guy in guam kno how u feel, whereas saying ow, or oh crap, or something like that is reactionary, it helps ease the pain, go get urself punched in the face, really, really hard, i dare u to not make a sound, now go play TAO, get blocked by a witch and i dare u yet again not to type that swear out, i bet its a lot easier to do the latter than the former

[BoBo The Fool]

holy crap man, talk about missing the point of an analogy. Ok, lets modify it a bit so that you might be able to grasp it.

Lets say that you aren't able to make special orders at McDonalds. You HAVE to get olives on it.

[drakonfire]

gee that arbys across the street looks real good about now

[BoBo The Fool]

And McD goes out of business.

So you're encouraging every single one of us who has a problem with the filter to just go play some other game? I don't think that's what the admins want. Sure, we've heard that they don't care about our five bucks, but if every single person who doesn't like the filter left, then it'd be a lot more than 5 bucks they'd be missing.

I'm gonna stop talking to you now, you miss every single point i make and then tell me that i'm stupid for it.

[drakonfire]

i bet i could count on one hand the number of ppl who would actaully leave because of a filter, how stupid of a reason is that?! ur gonna stop playing a game u love just because they added a feature u dont like, but doesnt affect how the game is played? (yes it affects how u may speak, but that should in no way shape or form affect how well u play) thats the lousiest excuse for not liking something i have ever heard


oh and another thing, at McDs... i just get their chicken nuggets anyway ;)

[BoBo The Fool]

DUDE! it wasn't me who made that suggestion, it was you who told me to go to Arby's!

bah.... ok... now i'm gonna stop

Look, They'll teach you about analogies in grade 9 or 10 or something. Wait a couple years and eventually you'll learn all about them

[S_K_O_F]

Well...until another game jumps up and competes with TAO, I would say we have no other place to go. So I would say TAO kinda has a monopoly on turn based strategy online gaming at the moment...sounds to me if you wanna play an online turn based strategy, you gotta play it here.

Constructive criticism is a great way to make change happen as long as it is respectable...but my point the whole time has been that incessant whining is nothing but annoying...so to those who are making suggestions, I salute you ...to those who are just whining and crying, the ignore feature is starting to sound mighty pleasant

[BoBo The Fool]

sigh .... yes... i agree. I get knocked off track by these lousy non-sensical arguments.


My official posiont on the filter: Filtering out swears is a good thing, but booting is too harsh a punishment. Replacing or blocking the text would protect the community just as well, and it seems that this is acceptable to almost all of the members, so why not do it?

[S_K_O_F]

because it obviously isn't acceptable to Bills!

[Ri'Orius]

The point behind booting isn't to keep the swearing off the servers, it's to kee the swearers off the servers. People who lack enough restraint to not type swear words, despite a couple mistakes that gave them slap-on-the-wrist discipline, are not welcome here.

That's what Bills wants, that's what some of us want, that's what it shall remain.

About your analogy:

So, a customer at McDonald's is faced with a choice: should he eat the olive burger, or should he go down to Arby's. Well, if he prefers the olive burger to the Arby's roast beef, he should stay at McDonald's. If he prefers the roast beef to the olives, he should eat at Arby's. Just like all the other Arby's customers who prefer their food over other restaurants' food.

That's what competition is. Everyone tries to make a product (in the analogy, food) that will result in profit. If more people like one person's product than like another's, the more liked person will make more profit. So, if more people would prefer playing, for example, Everquest than playing ToA (swear filter and all), Everquest will do better. ToA will still have business (people who still prefer a filtered ToA to EQ). It might not have as much business as it could without the filter, but that's their choice as businesspeople.

If the head chef of McDonald's decides that his olive-flavored ideals are more important than the added profit of yeilding to the masses, he shall keep with the olives. Bills has ideals, standards he is trying to maintain here, and is willing to keep those at the cost of potential profit. And for that he deserves respect, in my opinion.

[bigmikeasdf]

You know what sucks about the new add's? Makes me wanna stop playing and go surf for porn ;)

J/K, im way to addicted to TAO, but thier is so much nonsence being posted as of recently that I felt the need to do the same.

Screw it, while I'm here...

"The filter rocks
It just needs tweaked
And some of the posters
should be beat

We need to calm down
and collect our thoughts
sugjestions were made
and people have fought

Now time is needed
to sort it out
The staff sleeps too
So please dont pout.

[bigmikeasdf]

Speaking of nonsence posts, im not done yet. I need to vent about some posters ;)

Rescorlian-My brother from another mother! He just needs a hug. Alot of people are attacking him because of the way he posts. He is trying to do something very good, he just gets alittle excited trying to prove his point. His style is to aggressive for some people, especially for some of the very hot tempered flamers on this thread who miss out on his point.

Meletus-My sister from another mother ;) J/k. If anyone sees me give Meletus a hard time im so kidding. He is a very valuable member of this community and has donated alot of time trying to help others and make this a better community/game for all.

Bobo The Fool-I hate olives too ;) Hang in there bud, we will work this out. No reason to respond to people who dont listen to you anyway. dr@k0nf!r* {name was changed to protect his identity}

Ri'Orius, Snork, S_K_O_K, jaydude6, joei, and hashish_scout-I hope people are paying attention to your posts because you guys have posted lots of good Ideas and I can tell from how you post that you actually pay attention to others. I thank you.

Side note, Snork and SKOK, you two are hilarious ;) And Ri'Orius I love your well thought out posts. At least some people think before they post and you are a great example of that.

Bills and Divine-I know were my $5 is going. To buy some asprin!! I get a headache just reading this stuff, I don't even run the company. And as was said before, thank you for being so involved with this. Not many bussiness men are this hands on, and that is how to run a successful company.



I only listed some people from this thread. There are ALOT of other great people that I wish would put thier 2 cents in.

[BoBo The Fool]

ah bigmike, your positive posts have inspired me to put some of this bad blood aside.

Bills and Divine, even though there is much contempt between the lines in your posts (and some in the lines), it is very much appreciated that you post at all. I've played other online games while they were in development and got NO response from anyone that had any sort of power. The frustration of such lack of participation is overwhelming. Thanks for putting in your input, even if it's completely opposed to my own views.

[ocorious]

amazing, could this be the begging of a truce? i hope so. asprin? i dont think $5 is nearly enough asprin for the headaches this subject has caused. i think it is a good idea to just settle down and not get so heated of these things. discussin gooood, fighting, baaaad. oh and there is nothing wrong about drakonfire ;).

[S_K_O_F]

Actually if you stop and just feel the aura of the forums...it actually feels less tense in here...hmmm...things have settled down

OK everybody take a deep breathe and lets see how long this lasts.

*Happy thoughts, Happy thoughts, Happy thoughts*

[Rescorlian]

It felt that way, until I got back,, MUAHAHAHAHAHAH!!! J/K,

Nicley done Mike, the poem and comments were sweet (lol meletus the sister:D:D:D it's funny cause it's true:D) And very diffusing. I have a whole bunch of things to say about all the posts since my last one. However I will only address one.

Half_mad, cease and disiste posting on this thread. You provide nothing, you simply flame and that is useless. Even the people I disagree with bring something to the table and that is the other side of the coin. All you bring is annoyance.

As for eveyone else. I have heard your opinions and respected the majority of them. Those who have brought nothing to the table are useless and should not be allowed to post.

For now I am willing to let this sit. As jaydude said we have all presented our points, and I am in aggreance with him. Since that posts most seem to be flaming or bickering. (except bobo as he finished his analogy and I found it to be failry accurate to this situation)

I will leave this until something new is brought to the table, or someone says something I don't like. I suggest everyone does the same thing.

[Half-Mad]

Originally posted by Rescorlian
Half_mad, cease and disiste posting on this thread. You provide nothing, you simply flame and that is useless. Even the people I disagree with bring something to the table and that is the other side of the coin. All you bring is annoyance.


Oh, I'm crushed. Somebody doesn't want to hear what I have to say.

Stop acting like a spoiled brat, and I'll stop treating you like one.

[Snork]

Originally posted by bigmikeasdf


Snork -I hope people are paying attention to your posts because you guys have posted lots of good Ideas and I can tell from how you post that you actually pay attention to others. I thank you.

Side note, Snork and SKOK, you two are hilarious ;)

Thanks. :)
I try to make a difference. :)

We have a great game and a great bunch of people here.
Glad to be a part of it. :)