Penalty of Non-Acceptance of Challenges

[R G]

I read the sticky and did not see this as a suggestion - if I overlooked it I appologize in advance.

The game is becoming more of a chat party than a game of whit, stategy and intellect like it once was.

To counter this sad state of affairs I suggest that players who are challenged via the new /challenge command either enter into battle or decline. If they decline or do not enter into a battle within a set amount of time they lose half the stats that they would lose if they were in battle and lost the battle itself.

The premise is simple. If you come to a online game you should be playing the game. If you are not playing the game then you are taking up space for those that are there to play.

I think there should be a built in delay of say two minutes before the challenge feature takes effect. This would give people ample amount of time to set up clan wars or look for people. After the two minute you can be challenged by other players. If you do not enter the arena then you lose half the that you would have lost if you lost the battle.

I also think that a person who looses stats from another person via this new feature can only do so once per day.

The only exception to this rule are those that are leaders of the clan as they may be conducting clan business.

Comments???

[powza]

I see your point. However it could raise problems. What if a brand new noob gold challenges a top gold? They may not want to play as it is a waste of their time and they will gain no stats. If they dont then they could lose up to 15 stats. That sort of sucks.

It could also result in cheating and boosting by golds targetting high stat greys.

Also what if you are challenged and cannot play at that time? You lose without even a fight. I know that sometimes I go onto Great Lakes simply to chat and see who is around. You shouldn't be stopped from doing that. Once youve payed your money, whether you actually play the game or not is irrelevant. There is nothing wrong with mooching in the lobby.

Your idea, while being worthwhile, is not viable (in my opinion). Better than most other peoples ideas though :bigsmile:

[Jeffery]

Or, you just got out of a long game, and are talking to your friends for a few to report the battle, and plan to be logging off very shortly.

Then BAM, you get challenged and lose points???


If you are serious about this, then simply make it so that if after you are challenged, and do not accept within say... a minute, it boots you from the lobby. Or something else that may be annoying, btu doesn;t affect legitimate business.

[imagination]

i like jeffs idea of being botted out of the lobby, but you also have to make some kind of limit. say some 900 gold challenge a 1700 gold, minute goes by 1700 gets booted, relogs on, same person challenges repeat until 1700 gets annoyed and leaves. maybe say you get booted if you turn down challenges by golds within 200 stats of yourself and you can only be booted by a single person once or twice. or say you turn down like 5 different challenges in a row you get booted for 30 min.

[R G]

[QUOTE=powza]I see your point. However it could raise problems. What if a brand new noob gold challenges a top gold? They may not want to play as it is a waste of their time and they will gain no stats. If they dont then they could lose up to 15 stats. That sort of sucks.[QUOTE]


Good point...I think to rectify that then you put a 200 stat range of players that you can challenge for stats battles. IE A 1400 stat gold can only challenge for points players from 1200-1600. That way there are stats to gain by everyone and it would create parity in the game. As it would eliminate what we see now in some of the golds who just grey jump for stats and would force them to keep their high stats or risk lossing them if not accept challenges.

The challenging of greys is also a good point, but it is another problem that I feel would take care of itself. The gold that does that(challenging only greys) does not get any better from playing greys, as to become better in anything in life you play or work with people whose skills are better than your own. His demise would be that other golds would recognize his actions and they would start to challenge him and he would lose stats.

Whereas playing greys is frowned upon by the community it is not against any rules...whether you agree with that or not is up for debate. That being said it is highly frowned upon by the community at large and this would give the community a way to "police" a gold who only grey jumps.

[BaxVarlet]

I think this idea is just stupid. If I pay five dollars a month I should be able to do whatever I want with my gold, including refusing games from people. I know getting games has become a problem recently, but it always has, it comes in waves. This idea will not get golds to play more, it will just annoy them.

[Poop Slinger]

I think if your having that much of a hard time finding a game PM or IM one of your friends and play them. The lobby is what its. Its designed for 40ish people really 30, after that the whole server lags.

People shouldn't be punished for not accepted challenges. We don't want to create abuse of the Challenge feature.

[R G]

I think this idea is just stupid. If I pay five dollars a month I should be able to do whatever I want with my gold, including refusing games from people. I know getting games has become a problem recently, but it always has, it comes in waves. This idea will not get golds to play more, it will just annoy them.

The only people that it will annoy are those whose main purpose is cybering and or playing like "cats" or "dogs" or lying in trees and other stupid lobby antics. I would not think that would be you, so it really should not bother you any.


There use to be a time in history when it was honorable to step up to challenges...;)

[KBHoleN1]

Are you really serious? The problem is there, not a lot of people play games like they used to, I will give you that. But this is about the worst solution possible. A lot of the time when I am on, I get on to find a clanmate, and ask something, or try and strategize for a tournament. If I am waiting on my tourney opponent to finish a game, 2 minutes is hardly enough time. Besides that, I should not be limited to the amount of time I can be in the lobby without playing (past the already built-in kick if you aren't active). You seriously think people should be punished stat-wise for being in the lobby, but not playing. This may encourage cyberers and spammers to go elsewhere, but it also punishes many, many people who are trying to do normal things.

The implementation of this would cause massive problems with the stat system. As already pointed out, noobs would challenge high-stated golds, and then it is upon the golds to find a game in that one minute, or they must play the noob to avoid losing stats. Its just an all-around bad idea if you ask me. I may not understand exactly how its implemented, but the general idea is unsound. No, just no.

[monkus]

How about something like players lose 5 stats per week. This would get everyone to want to play games or lose their precious stats.

[R G]

Are you really serious? The problem is there, not a lot of people play games like they used to, I will give you that. But this is about the worst solution possible. A lot of the time when I am on, I get on to find a clanmate, and ask something, or try and strategize for a tournament. If I am waiting on my tourney opponent to finish a game, 2 minutes is hardly enough time. Besides that, I should not be limited to the amount of time I can be in the lobby without playing (past the already built-in kick if you aren't active). You seriously think people should be punished stat-wise for being in the lobby, but not playing. This may encourage cyberers and spammers to go elsewhere, but it also punishes many, many people who are trying to do normal things.

Very simple solution to one of your problems that you mentioned....If they are in your clan then you can battle your clan mate and chat all you want in battle...no stats are lost. ;)

The tourney thing is a good point though. Maybe the simple solution for this would for this rule to no apply on REV as that seems to be where most tourneys happen anyway.

I feel we have more to gain than to lose.

The implementation of this would cause massive problems with the stat system. As already pointed out, noobs would challenge high-stated golds, and then it is upon the golds to find a game in that one minute, or they must play the noob to avoid losing stats. Its just an all-around bad idea if you ask me. I may not understand exactly how its implemented, but the general idea is unsound. No, just no.

Read the whole thread KBHoleN1...someone did mention the point about noobs challenging high stated golds and my solution was that you can not challenge anyone/or anyone challenge you with in a +/- 200 stat range and suffer a penalty. So if you have 1400 you can not be challenged by anyone other than someone with 1200-1600 and you can not challenge anyone with stats in the range of 1200-1600. Really simple solution.

[monkus]

Read the whole thread KBHoleN1...someone did mention the point about noobs challenging high stated golds and my solution was that you can not challenge anyone/or anyone challenge you with in a +/- 200 stat range and suffer a penalty. So if you have 1400 you can not be challenged by anyone other than someone with 1200-1600 and you can not challenge anyone with stats in the range of 1200-1600. Really simple solution.

Not really. First, maybe I want to challenge someone higher or lower than me. Like, let's say I'm on my 1850 account and I want to play a 1300. He can't challenge me? I can't challenge him?
And what if I'm on a 1400, and I want a good opponent, and a 1200 challenges me while I'm trying to work out a challenge with a few 1400's. What then?
Or, what if I just finished a game and want to speak to a few people before signing off. What then?

[Lord Sesshomaru]

I think this idea is just stupid. If I pay five dollars a month I should be able to do whatever I want with my gold, including refusing games from people. I know getting games has become a problem recently, but it always has, it comes in waves. This idea will not get golds to play more, it will just annoy them.

I couldnt have said it better myself. Thanks for sparing me the time bax. :yes2:

[Cuathon]

how about not? this idea is ridiculous and stupid.

what if i am about to log off? i should be penalized for this?
im sorry RG, but this must be the stupidest thing youve ever suggested, and that says a lot:) j/k, but it is still a horrible idea.

other than that, i pay five a month to do anything that can be done with in the confines of tao. i like to sit in the lobby till i find a good game, or sometimes just chat with the clannies. i dont want to deal with random 1450 players challenging me. either play grey or get golds on more servers, if this is too much for you, just quit.

[R G]

Not really. First, maybe I want to challenge someone higher or lower than me. Like, let's say I'm on my 1850 account and I want to play a 1300. He can't challenge me? I can't challenge him?

He can still challenge you but it would not be a penalty as this would be your choice or his to accept the challenge at this point as this would be out of the +/- 200 stat range

And what if I'm on a 1400, and I want a good opponent, and a 1200 challenges me while I'm trying to work out a challenge with a few 1400's. What then?

In this case you would need to challenge faster as you have now been challenged. Don't accept the challenge you only stand to loose just a few stats.

Or, what if I just finished a game and want to speak to a few people before signing off. What then?

After you come out of a game you would be given 2 minutes again as you have just come back to the lobby.

Kind of confusing but I think you can get it...;)

[Hellblazer]

I find this idea to be retarded. Who cares if someone doesn't accept your challenge. Maybe they just don't want to fight you. golds pay five bucks a month to do whatever the hell they want, and there's no reason to penalize them for not accepting a simple challenge.
I forgot to speak on the greys' behalf. It's basically the same principle. Who cares?...Other than you, RG.

[Cuathon]

yeah, all logical arguements aside, why shouls i stand to pay any penalty just because you cant get a game?

[R G]

I find this idea to be retarded. Who cares if someone doesn't accept your challenge. Maybe they just don't want to fight you. golds pay five bucks a month to do whatever the hell they want, and there's no reason to penalize them for not accepting a simple challenge.
I forgot to speak on the greys' behalf. It's basically the same principle. Who cares?...Other than you, RG.


Oh there are others that care...to just pin this on me is rather narrow minded. Never heard of ya Hellblazer so maybe you are one of those people that try and pretend like you are some kind of an animal or you like to cyber - I don't really know.

I am just trying to come up with an idea to get rid of the crap. And this would do precisely that - maybe that is why you are against this idea so heavily.


yeah, all logical arguements aside, why shouls i stand to pay any penalty just because you cant get a game?

Oh yea Cuathon why don't we just throw logic all away...but you never were one for logic in the first place were ya?

I didn't state anywhere in this thread as a reason to do this was so I could get a game....It is to merely clean the damn place up...but you do bring up a good point as it would have more people actually playing the game rather than just acting like a bunch of imbeciles.

[Cuathon]

nice personal attack old boy. :)
i know that others are mad, one of the reasons that i have quit previously, but i never asked for anything. unless you make this such a bitch to code that seed will never do it(or bills,) i dont see how it would help more than hurt. if you want games play grey. a simple solution to all of your problems. you could also pay another measly 5$ a month to be gold on other servers, thus increasing your gold playing pool. there are plenty of ways to fix problems of no games without greatly inconveniencing innocent people.

your comment to hellblazer was ridiculous also, he is a fairly well-known member and veteran tao player.

if the problem were easily fixable it would have been done(since this has been complained about for years). all those new stat codes to be put in? make a petition so that bills knows this is important to a large number of community members.

i defy you to find 3 illogical arguements in that post since you commented on my "lack of logic."

[Office_Shredder]

Oh there are others that care...to just pin this on me is rather narrow minded. Never heard of ya Hellblazer so maybe you are one of those people that try and pretend like you are some kind of an animal or you like to cyber - I don't really know.

Posts: 7,919

He has more than 8 times as many posts as you. I bet a lot of one time spammers post nearly 8,000 times on the forums.

:rolleyes:

[Jeffery]

He has more than 8 times as many posts as you. I bet a lot of one time spammers post nearly 8,000 times on the forums.

:rolleyes:
Why not, there is one with like 20,000 posts.

R G, for as long as you've been around TAO, it is amazing how little you actually know of the game, it's admninistration, and how things work.

[R G]

nice personal attack old boy. :)
i know that others are mad, one of the reasons that i have quit previously, but i never asked for anything. unless you make this such a bitch to code that seed will never do it(or bills,) i dont see how it would help more than hurt. if you want games play grey. a simple solution to all of your problems. you could also pay another measly 5$ a month to be gold on other servers, thus increasing your gold playing pool. there are plenty of ways to fix problems of no games without greatly inconveniencing innocent people.

Well if you know that there is a problem then why not listen to ideas rather than take it as a personal attack Cuathon? Spamming, Cybering, Role playing and Grey Jumping Golds have gone on way too long. I am just trying to come up with ideas to improve the community...open your mind just a tad before you just want to criticize.

The idea is in it's infancy and sure it has some work to go to improve upon.

your comment to hellblazer was ridiculous also, he is a fairly well-known member and veteran tao player.

My comments to hellblazer were no more ridiculous than his post. You yourself said it...i know others are mad yet he wanted to turn this into something just about me...;)

if the problem were easily fixable it would have been done(since this has been complained about for years). all those new stat codes to be put in? make a petition so that bills knows this is important to a large number of community members.

Before a petition is made all the details and issues should be planned out and studied - that is what this thread is suppose to be about.

i defy you to find 3 illogical arguements in that post since you commented on my "lack of logic."

My comment was because you said you wanted to throw all logic aside...Dont take things so personal:cool:

[mantis33]

No offense, but terrible idea on so many levels, which for the most part have already been discussed.

Yuck.

[BaxVarlet]

Well if you know that there is a problem then why not listen to ideas rather than take it as a personal attack Cuathon? Spamming, Cybering, Role playing and Grey Jumping Golds have gone on way too long. I am just trying to come up with ideas to improve the community

So tell me how your idea of making people lose stats if they don't accpet a challenge will stop the three things you mentioned?

Spamming: the individual could simply span for a min, log off, rinse and repeat.
Cybering: likewise
Roleplaying: Not sure what kind of roleplaying you are talking about, but if people want to roleplay, I say let them.
Grey Jumping: you challenge a gold, he jumps a grey so he doesn't lose the stats.

Your idea does not solve anything, it would be too hard to code as some people previously mentioned, and it would be too easy to get around, such as just logging off and back on again.

[Dan_F_U]

If people dont want to play the game..they dont have to...

That just shows how great this game is now. Bill or seed need to actually give a rats *** then maybe this game can expand. Until then...lets just keep paying for our gold accounts and keep supporting this game !!!

Maybe I should start a rebellion against the game itself....anyone up to join.

*slaps on white arm band* Viva la resistance !!!....hmm what to call this orginization :P

[Cuathon]

the you should have started with a better idea. this is like the filter supposedly fixing the language problem. you can just add more conding to fic an idea that wont work. this indeed affects norma players far more than cyberers and grey jumpers.

bax i love you!

when you come up with an idea that requires lots of logic to defeat i will apply it. otherwise i will make ridiculous arguemnts to hold off boredom. spamming has been prevented as best it can, the secret sam assault weapon, and in-game mods. you cant prevent grey jumping without lots of other obnoxious conding, the only effect this can possibly have is bugging the hell oout of innocent people.

as for the clan leader bit, another coding nightmare. not playing is in no way a crime. this fixes nothing else and really doesnt even fix that. the idea of making people play if they want to chat for a bit is so F'ed up.

obviously the support for such a thing isnt as big as you think, since no one supports you. the forcing of play is what really gets me. Anyone who thinks that should exist... cant have any understading of online games whatsoever.

[bludhoundz]

RG, this is just a bad implementation of a good idea.

If anything, one should lose stats if they don't decline in a certain amount of time (because people are sometimes looking for other players in tournies, have to go, have just finished a tough game), but even so, then people who are not at the computer because they decided to go make some food will be punished unfairly.

You should rethink the implementation entirely.

[R G]

So tell me how your idea of making people lose stats if they don't accpet a challenge will stop the three things you mentioned?

Spamming: the individual could simply span for a min, log off, rinse and repeat.
Cybering: likewise
Roleplaying: Not sure what kind of roleplaying you are talking about, but if people want to roleplay, I say let them.
Grey Jumping: you challenge a gold, he jumps a grey so he doesn't lose the stats.

Your idea does not solve anything, it would be too hard to code as some people previously mentioned, and it would be too easy to get around, such as just logging off and back on again.


Spamming - I am sure there will be idiots who try to avoid this by this way but it will make it harder to do so.

Cybering - It would be much harder to hook up or look for people with like intentions as the lobby would force people to games.

Role Playing - Don't tell me you have never seen people role play?

Whereas it would not totally get rid of these it would reduce them by a large margin...;)

[Office_Shredder]

Spamming - I am sure there will be idiots who try to avoid this by this way but it will make it harder to do so.

Cybering - It would be much harder to hook up or look for people with like intentions as the lobby would force people to games.

Role Playing - Don't tell me you have never seen people role play?

Whereas it would not totally get rid of these it would reduce them by a large margin...;)


Actually, if I'm getting on to spam or cyber, I'm probably not very interested in my stats either way. And most cyberers are grey, nobody's going to challenge one and risk getting into a pointlessly drawn out and boring match against a staller (which the cyberer would probably do, in hopes of not getting challenged again), or even the risk of a good player getting on, and cybering to get a match against a gold to stat rape. All this does is punish people who get on to chat.

And I've never seen somebody roleplay before

[Cuathon]

Spamming - I am sure there will be idiots who try to avoid this by this way but it will make it harder to do so.

Cybering - It would be much harder to hook up or look for people with like intentions as the lobby would force people to games.

Role Playing - Don't tell me you have never seen people role play?

Whereas it would not totally get rid of these it would reduce them by a large margin...;)

it wouldnt reduce them. it might even give them joy that they surpassed the restrictions placed on them, the stat arguemtn is correct, the three groups mentioned would not be at all affected: chatters, cyberers, and spammers wouldnt care about stats and grey jumpers could just jump a grey. i fail to see how this would stop them at all. as for being kicked off, the mods are more effective adn dont disrupt the innocents nearly as much.

[the bird]

rg u are my man and everthing and we did have a good battle, butsometimes there are times that i don't want to battle but i just want to come on and see whos on and talk to them. u even know how good i battle but there is just times that i just don't want to battle if u know what i mean.

[Anarchy_United]

Heres a solution! If you challenge someone, and they don't accept, DONUTS rain out of the sky above you! Now, all we need to do is get seed to program this in, and who wouldn't pay for a gold?

[Serge]

How about something like players lose 5 stats per week. This would get everyone to want to play games or lose their precious stats.
Awesome.

[Cuathon]

or we can leave something that isnt broken alone. its penty easy to get games if your not going for stats.

[shatterstar]

i say just leave it well alone. sure there are plenty of cyberers and idiots in the lobby but there are even more serious players who'll be harmed more than the potential gain of the cleanup.

something that forces a reactivation of the top 100 sitting on their stats would help thouhg. it will raise the talent again and force out the cyberers .

edit: anarchy you are my god.

[Punishment]

What I think should happen should be something like

If you rating doesn't change at all for 2 weeks in a row, you should get knocked off the top 100. This forces you to play at least 1 game against a non-clan member... And if by some chance you play a bunch of games and your rating ends up the same, then it stinks for you. It would weed out a bunch of the top players who don't ever play anymore, and force them to play someone...

[uniquinous]

i thought something similar to that already happens....

[Punishment]

I think you just have to log in, not play games right now. If you log in weekly but don't play, your rankings will still be there. By making your rating change, it forces you to play against a non clan member in an actual game.

[monkus]

What I think should happen should be something like

If you rating doesn't change at all for 2 weeks in a row, you should get knocked off the top 100. This forces you to play at least 1 game against a non-clan member... And if by some chance you play a bunch of games and your rating ends up the same, then it stinks for you. It would weed out a bunch of the top players who don't ever play anymore, and force them to play someone...

Jump a 750 each week.

My suggestion works best. You need to play competitive games to keep your ranking.

[Jeffery]

My suggestion is even better, and even better yet, will be fully implemented.

[Punishment]

Monkus, None of the people ranked would get stats from a 750 :p

They wouldh ave to play a 1000 +ish :-p

My suggestion is even better, and even better yet, will be fully implemented.

Very nice Jeffery, glad to see some new changes occuring inthe game :)

[Alaric]

I have trouble getting games. and your idea is tempting. but i doubt seed will ever do anything against golds.