IP ban bug

[Fallin_Demon]

Well for the second time in 2 days I have tried to post in the forums and this message comes up telling me that my IP has been banned. This makes no sence because I havent done anything and don't think it really has infact been banned. Is this a bug or just my crappy AOL screwing with me?

[Punishment]

Well, AOL's IP changes every connect, i think? So, maybe someone near you was banned, and you're just banned when AOL connects with that IP or whatever :/

Try to sign out and back on aol, maybe that'll fix it?

[Fallin_Demon]

Well, I kinda see what your talking about but the odds of that happining twice in two days is kinda slim dont you think. But ill try it next time. Does that mean people with AOL cant be banned?;)

[Megabyte]

no, I think it's general policy to ban anyone who uses AOL, or at least it's just good sense



honestly though, wtf? AOL?

[Fallin_Demon]

no, I think it's general policy to ban anyone who uses AOL, or at least it's just good sense



honestly though, wtf? AOL?
Wait....what:huh:
and its not like i pay the bill and get to choose what form of internet i get to use...:dry:

[uniquinous]

ha we were just talking about this problem in the mod lounge. Yes, it's AOL. Your ISP has a habit of pooling IP addresses, meaning what is normally a unique computer identifier (for simplicity's sake) is shared by you and a few banned naughties.

[dirka dirka]

An IP doesn't identify a computer, but regardless. TAO should ban by hdd snn, which can be aquired through API in flash. This would make it so the actual computer is banned, by means of the serial number of the hard drive.

Edit: and last I checked, you can change your IP on aol fairly easy.

[Fallin_Demon]

ha we were just talking about this problem in the mod lounge. Yes, it's AOL. Your ISP has a habit of pooling IP addresses, meaning what is normally a unique computer identifier (for simplicity's sake) is shared by you and a few banned naughties.
Is is a problem that just started resently, b/c i have never had it till 3 days ago?:confused: So would just logging off and logging back on fix the prob?

[Megabyte]

Is is a problem that just started resently, b/c i have never had it till 3 days ago?:confused: So would just logging off and logging back on fix the prob?

more likely some AOL user recently got themselves banned

The problem will persist (to some extent or another) until you change your ISP, or TAO changes the system it bans by (i.e. Dirka's or some other suggested setup). Though yes, disconnecting from the service then reconnecting will change your IP and fix it in the short run.


are you on AOL dialup? Because really...like $10 and you can get yourself a different dialup ISP a month...

[uniquinous]

AOL dialup is still ~$23 somehow. and yes, dirka, i know it's not - this is why I put "for simplicity's sake".

Yes, ideally we should use MAC-48 and EUI-48 addresses, but IP is simpler, and laziness prevails.

[dirka dirka]

Mac addy's are easy to change now days.

[EatMine]

TAO should ban by hdd snn, which can be aquired through API in flash.http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/4522/bullshit7uq.gif

[dirka dirka]

http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/4522/bullshit7uq.gif
What?

[Jeffery]

I belive he just said bullshit.

And since he was complaining about his forum account, there woulkd be no changes, Vbull uses IP to identify people, and ban then by name or IP. Without modifications there is no other method for the forums. And TAO will not change the forums through custom mods.

[dirka dirka]

Why would he say bullshit? Doesn't make much sense.


but never the less, there are better ways to ban than IP. IP is a horrible way.

[Jeffery]

And yet that is what the forums offer. Discussing anything else is useless when it pertains to his forum account being banned.

[dirka dirka]

Just because its useless doesn't mean it shouldn't be posted.. I mean.. hell you post, don't ya?

[Fallin_Demon]

more likely some AOL user recently got themselves banned

The problem will persist (to some extent or another) until you change your ISP, or TAO changes the system it bans by (i.e. Dirka's or some other suggested setup). Though yes, disconnecting from the service then reconnecting will change your IP and fix it in the short run.


are you on AOL dialup? Because really...like $10 and you can get yourself a different dialup ISP a month...
Well i cant get DSL or cable where I live at the moment. The only thing I can get is a $90 internet....so like a 68 dollar hike.:dry: And will reconnecting fix the prob?:huh:

[Jeffery]

Usually.

What he is saying is you should look into other more local dialup plans. Many of them offer better service at a cheaper rate that AOL.

[dirka dirka]

Not to mention that AOL software LAGS your computer without question.

[Jeffery]

If you do get stuck with AOL, use them to connect, then use ANYTHING else for browsing.

For once I agree with Dirka. AOL has got to be the worlds worst program to have to use.

[Fallin_Demon]

If you do get stuck with AOL, use them to connect, then use ANYTHING else for browsing.

For once I agree with Dirka. AOL has got to be the worlds worst program to have to use.
I dont undrstand the "ANYTHING else for browsing" thing...you mean like use FF or something?

[uniquinous]

Why would he say bullshit? Doesn't make much sense.


but never the less, there are better ways to ban than IP. IP is a horrible way.
I think he said bullshit because, well, it is. EatMine and I never agree, yet we are now, for once. hdd snn? I consider myself somewhat computer literate. I identified hdd as hard disk drive but snn? Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SNN) had little information, google (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22hdd+snn%22) had none. Now, how do you feel a flash object will pull the hdd snn from the bull's ass? It's located next to your non-existant graphics card, right?

On the other hand, I suggested MAC and EUI addresses, which is much more readily attainable. You claimed they could be changed. You do realize that EUI literally stands for Extended Unique Identifier, correct? Wikipedia can help you here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EUI-64). Lemme also give you a bit of advice, since you seem to think that people can change this identifier: people can change any identifier if they so put their minds to it. However, we don't need to be too paranoid to believe people are getting new computers and ISP's every few weeks or banz0r. The actual problem, as originally presented in this thread, was to stop innocents from being inadvertently banz0r3d. Even IF we fear people changing their MAC/EUI-48, it still takes care of the problem.

[EatMine]

I think he said bullshit because, well, it is. EatMine and I never agree, yet we are now, for once. hdd snn? I consider myself somewhat computer literate. I identified hdd as hard disk drive but snn?He meant Hard Disk "serial number". Which of course is bullshit too. There is no way for flash to get the serial number, maybe the "volume id" of the drive, but not the serial number. And i'm pretty sure Flash needs user authorization to access the volume id, besides it can be changed in a matter of seconds. So it would be a completely useless way of identifying people.
And most important: like already said, the original poster doesn't even have a problem with the game, but with the forum.

So, uhmm, yes, utter bullshit ...

[Jeffery]

I dont undrstand the "ANYTHING else for browsing" thing...you mean like use FF or something?
Firefox, Opera, hell even Internut Exploder.

[Zander]

Wait....what:huh:
and its not like i pay the bill and get to choose what form of internet i get to use...:dry:
Funnily enough I happened to be discussing people who think they don't pay for AOL late last night..You don't pay yet my sad naive friend:( And once you do start paying, they won't let you stop

[mantis33]

no, I think it's general policy to ban anyone who uses AOL, or at least it's just good sense



honestly though, wtf? AOL?
I use AOL. :(

And yeah... I had to log on and off 4 times just to read this thread and confirm that it was in fact the same thing I was dealing with. It's the most annoying thing ever and as much as I know it WON'T be fixed, it NEEDS to be!!! I can't stand logging off and on 4 or 5 times just to get an IP suitable for me to forum. :mad:

[dirka dirka]

I think he said bullshit because, well, it is. EatMine and I never agree, yet we are now, for once. hdd snn? I consider myself somewhat computer literate. I identified hdd as hard disk drive but snn? Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SNN) had little information, google (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22hdd+snn%22) had none. Now, how do you feel a flash object will pull the hdd snn from the bull's ass? It's located next to your non-existant graphics card, right?

On the other hand, I suggested MAC and EUI addresses, which is much more readily attainable. You claimed they could be changed. You do realize that EUI literally stands for Extended Unique Identifier, correct? Wikipedia can help you here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EUI-64). Lemme also give you a bit of advice, since you seem to think that people can change this identifier: people can change any identifier if they so put their minds to it. However, we don't need to be too paranoid to believe people are getting new computers and ISP's every few weeks or banz0r. The actual problem, as originally presented in this thread, was to stop innocents from being inadvertently banz0r3d. Even IF we fear people changing their MAC/EUI-48, it still takes care of the problem.

HDD SSN Information:
http://www.codeproject.com/csharp/hard_disk_serialNo.asp
and it is very hard to change. Thank you. You must suck at googling.

and mac addy's can be changed kinda easy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MAC_address#Changing_MAC_addresses


HDD SSN is much easier and much more secure. Thanks, but you guys really have little idea what you're talking about. So don't call me on bullshit without doing some homework.

[Jeffery]

PSsST, that is HDD SN. Drop the second N when you use it. ;)

[dirka dirka]

PSsST, that is HDD SN. Drop the second N when you use it. ;)
Lol.. that is kinda hard for me to type for some reason actually.

[DarkMethod GL]

Yea, I used to use AOL and this would happen to me a lot but i changed my internet service so it doesn't happen anymore.

[uniquinous]

lol you shouldn't quote us on being dumb when you can't even type the acronym of what you're talking about properly. I *did* try to do my homework, as I said, and neither google nor wikipedia had any useful information because you thought "Serial Number" was abreviated "snn". Nice.

I will reiterate my original point: ANY identifier can be changed. Yes, a computer can have a different HDD SN after getting one banz0r3d. However, the *original* problem of this thread is solved with the much more easily accessible MAC address. I'm also pretty sure that you can't just access that information upon securing a connection. Instead you'd need to ask permission for it each time (in an executable file, not a flash file). Notice how your example is about software installation, an incredibly invasive opperation that is performed once. We would need it performed every single time the user logs on to the game itself (which I can see asking permission to invade your computer... eek) as well as the forum (which would be unreasonable to ask if it can executable file each time you log on).

Any questions?

[dirka dirka]

lol you shouldn't quote us on being dumb when you can't even type the acronym of what you're talking about properly. I *did* try to do my homework, as I said, and neither google nor wikipedia had any useful information because you thought "Serial Number" was abreviated "snn". Nice.
Google corrects it for me, I still can't type it. My keyboard puts two in for some reason, I have to go back and hit delete. Thats what you get for buying a really expensive keyboard that nobody else has probably ever bought.

I will reiterate my original point: ANY identifier can be changed. Yes, a computer can have a different HDD SN after getting one banz0r3d. However, the *original* problem of this thread is solved with the much more easily accessible MAC address. I'm also pretty sure that you can't just access that information upon securing a connection. Instead you'd need to ask permission for it each time (in an executable file, not a flash file). Notice how your example is about software installation, an incredibly invasive opperation that is performed once. We would need it performed every single time the user logs on to the game itself (which I can see asking permission to invade your computer... eek) as well as the forum (which would be unreasonable to ask if it can executable file each time you log on).
You are wrong, uniquinous. Not any identifier can be changed. If you change a volume serial number on windows it causes many problems. There is no safe way to change it. There are many safe ways to change your Mac Addy. That is why generally Mac Addys arn't used, because it unquestionable can be bypassed. Anybody can change their Mac Addy in a matter of minutes. That is a bad way to ban people! BTW, don't talk about programming, because you have almost no clue what you're talking about in the first place let alone programming it into flash.

[uniquinous]

yes it's... not like i have a degree in CS or anything...
if you think i'm wrong, back it.

I can assure you tho, I can change what you see as my hard drive serial number quite readily. Really tho - please, tell me, how do you allow a webpage such as this forum thread track HDD SN? You think the javascript will do it automatically? How bout PERL? Come on, show me how you think this page can track my hard drive without asking the user for any input whatsoever.

[dirka dirka]

yes it's... not like i have a degree in CS or anything...
if you think i'm wrong, back it.
That's cool. Photoshop M$ Certified through local community college. Working on my programming certification for C++. Although, being certified is just the start as far as C++ goes. I did back my thoughts on what you were wrong about.

I can assure you tho, I can change what you see as my hard drive serial number quite readily. Really tho - please, tell me, how do you allow a webpage such as this forum thread track HDD SN? You think the javascript will do it automatically? How bout PERL? Come on, show me how you think this page can track my hard drive without asking the user for any input whatsoever.
Yes, changing the serial is extremely easy. Then try and reboot the computer. That is the hard part. It is used in some of the M$ activation scripts. Also, it is stored in two places. One is read only, while the other can be changed.

Anyway, you would have to use a flash interface somewhere hidden on the page that communicates with a php script. It is actually fairly easy and it could just be done on login to make it even more simple. As its been said before, by Jeffery, it doesn't matter though. Any custom programming on this level won't happen in TAO. Nor will anything you're talking about. So any argument, while futile on your point, is still for education purpose.

[uniquinous]

Tell me, if it's so easy, why isn't it the industry standard? The fact is, it's not that easy, and you know it. You need permission to access that information. In the link you provided, it was in installation software, an executable file.

Neither photoshop nor C++ help you in this field, and you have yet to show me how you think you can implement this without asking the users permission to run a file on their computer each and every time. "use a flash interface somewhere hidden" wouldn't cut it alone, even with a php script.

[dirka dirka]

Tell me, if it's so easy, why isn't it the industry standard? The fact is, it's not that easy, and you know it. You need permission to access that information. In the link you provided, it was in installation software, an executable file.

Neither photoshop nor C++ help you in this field, and you have yet to show me how you think you can implement this without asking the users permission to run a file on their computer each and every time. "use a flash interface somewhere hidden" wouldn't cut it alone, even with a php script.
It isn't the industry standard because it is custom. It is hard to program at first, because it uses things that arn't really everyday programming. More or less.. the script would be make-shift, unclean, but it would work.


Flash files can access your local machine. Link that to a php script.


btw, C++ is very much like php, that is why it helps me.



OH! and one last note. Flash and PHP is the easy way. You can ask through a certificate and all that garbage, which the user can enable to do without asking every time.. but that is overboard.

[uniquinous]

Listen - computer science is all about hard programming. The field is paved by people pushing the envelope and breaking barriers - hard coding. Look at google, pixar, bungie. Heck look at Seed! You think TAO was just some easy coding? Xerent would suggest otherwise. No, the computer industry does not avoid useful tools such as intricate tracking methods because they feel the coding is too hard. It's a cutthroat field - the best who code the hardest get the jobs.

Flash files can only access so much, and last I checked can not obtain hard drive serial numbers. In fact, a search of the Adobe product website (http://www.adobe.com/cfusion/search/index.cfm?loc=en_us&term=%22hard+drive+serial+number%22&action=Search) for that very identifier yielded no results. Much like your graphics card which you can't seem to produce actual documentation for, you haven't exactly shown how this would work. In fact, the only thing you have shown is how to retrieve this identifier from a C sharp .exe file.

btw, C++ is very much like many languanges, all of which are based around the same logic theories with different ease, accessibility, and semantics. If you tell me know know OpenGL you would start to impress me. :p

[dirka dirka]

Listen - computer science is all about hard programming. The field is paved by people pushing the envelope and breaking barriers - hard coding. Look at google, pixar, bungie. Heck look at Seed! You think TAO was just some easy coding? Xerent would suggest otherwise. No, the computer industry does not avoid useful tools such as intricate tracking methods because they feel the coding is too hard. It's a cutthroat field - the best who code the hardest get the jobs.
Xerent is correct. That isn't hard coding. That is putting together a ton of easy coding. You completely take what I said out of context and you overlook words. MAKE-SHIFT. A script like I am talking about isn't a script that is flawlessly coded. It is a script that maybe does things that don't make much sense, it has trial and error, backwards kinda things. I don't expect you to understand this after saying that TAO was hard coding. TAO was hard graphics, the coding was easy (I've looked at the code).

Flash files can only access so much, and last I checked can not obtain hard drive serial numbers. In fact, a search of the Adobe product website (http://www.adobe.com/cfusion/search/index.cfm?loc=en_us&term=%22hard+drive+serial+number%22&action=Search) for that very identifier yielded no results. Much like your graphics card which you can't seem to produce actual documentation for, you haven't exactly shown how this would work. In fact, the only thing you have shown is how to retrieve this identifier from a C sharp .exe file.
Are you kidding me? You search the website for a script? You think they are gonna give you a script! That is hilarious. Listen, uniq. Your volume info is stored as a win32 folder, but it is past hidden to explorer. This is very easy to get to via flash. The problem would be interfacing the actual flash with the ban system.

I am not talking about something you can go and google. I am talking about something you have to actually write. Read before you reply. You have to write a script. You can't find this on google. It is more complicated than google, which I know is hard for you.

btw, C++ is very much like many languanges, all of which are based around the same logic theories with different ease, accessibility, and semantics. If you tell me know know OpenGL you would start to impress me. :p
LOL! C++ is very much not like many languages. It has alot in common with its family, which includes php. I know programming. Try dos level, actual programming, which is WHAT C++ WAS BASED OFF. I've programmed things you'll never understand, OpenGL in comparison. Try delphi, dos, stuff like that. However, I don't brag about that because I have no actual education basis behind it.

[EatMine]

That is hilarious. Listen, uniq. Your volume info is stored as a win32 folder, but it is past hidden to explorer. This is very easy to get to via flash.He asked you to show it. You still have not ...
If it is sooo easy, show how to do it.

[dirka dirka]

He asked you to show it. You still have not ...
If it is sooo easy, show how to do it.
Keep reading. As I said, it isn't something you can find on google. However, I told him how to do it. Volume information is stored in a win32 folder. From there the answer is obvious.

Edit: I'll even dumb it down! C:\System Volume Information\

Mine is d649ec51-0b9e-11db-836f-806e6f6e6963

which is the extended one. There is also an 8 digit one.

[EatMine]

From there the answer is obvious.Ok, if it is obvious, show it. Please, just once, back your claims.
Show the call how to get drive SN via flash.

[dirka dirka]

Ok, if it is obvious, show it. Please, just once, back your claims.
Show the call how to get drive SN via flash.
It isn't a call. I've been saying this the entire time. You would have to make a script to do it. However, I just showed where it is located. From there, just open it!!!!

[EatMine]

It isn't a call. I've been saying this the entire time. You would have to make a script to do it. However, I just showed where it is located. From there, just open it!!!!Not possible to "just open it"!
(C:\System Volume Information\ --> Access denied.)

Back your claims, post the script!

[dirka dirka]

Not possible to "just open it"!
(C:\System Volume Information\ --> Access denied.)

Your volume info is stored as a win32 folder, but it is past hidden to explorer.

As I said, you can't open it via explorer. I can though, gotta make some registry adjustments. However, don't need to in order to access it from flash.

Back your claims, post the script!
I never said a script existed. I said it could be written. I also said it would take some time, because it is make-shift, which is why it isn't used.

[EatMine]

So again, it comes down to cheap talk.

By the way:
Mine is d649ec51-0b9e-11db-836f-806e6f6e6963That's not a hard drive serial number.

[dirka dirka]

So again, it comes down to cheap talk.

By the way:
That's not a hard drive serial number.
Wow. Firstly, it doesn't matter if it is talk or not, it isn't applicable to TAO, nor do I even have a use for it.

Next, yes that is a HDD SN. There are two different for each hard drive. The first is 8 digits. The other is read only and I have no clue really what it is made from, looks like an encryption string.

[EatMine]

Next, yes that is a HDD SN. There are two different for each hard drive. The first is 8 digits. The other is read only and I have no clue really what it is made from, looks like an encryption string.I see, i see.
Wow, not only one serial number but actually two. I mean, identifying a device with a unique id is so 1980, huh?

Kid, the 8-digit thing is probably your volume id, the other one is a normal reg key. Neither of them is a drive serial number. And the script you're talking about can't be written, because flash can't get a serial number from that folder.

kthanksbye

[dirka dirka]

I see, i see.
Wow, not only one serial number but actually two. I mean, identifying a device with a unique id is so 1980, huh?

Kid, the 8-digit thing is probably your volume id, the other one is a normal reg key. Neither of them is a drive serial number. And the script you're talking about can't be written, because flash can't get a serial number from that folder.

kthanksbye
Nope, wrong. This info is on google. Mine is 8 digit.

[uniquinous]

He's kinda right. You keep saying things like "it's a script you have to make" and how much C++ you've coded. Kid, I could run circles around your "knowledge". You say you have no actual education in it, I got a degree. Any computer scientist knows that *scripts*, which you keep saying are imposible to look up, tend to be the basis of building coding, and that even IF a specific script weren't available at the time, the language must make reference to the ability at some point.

For example, if I wanted to make a C++ script to provide my OpenGL creation with animation, no script would be around for my project. However, I CAN very easily find documentation on time and movement changes, and *apply* that to my specific project. Unlike this example, flash has NO DOCUMENTATION WHATSOEVER on accessing or acquiring the means to access a HDD SN. None. If you disagree, reference the flash site. You will find Sun houses every built in attribute and command of java, and similarly Flash holds documentation on its own language. Knowledge of a computer language does NOT give you full unrestricted access to whatever you want - you seem to forget that, and it's ESPECIALLY true with all of Flash's security features for both coder and user.

So, you managed to tell us where on our *windows* computers we might be able to find the information? That's great. However, *you* couldn't possibly get this information, regardless of what website you needed me to go to. You have no documentation backing these claims. The industry always uses the best, and the fact is, this is unused - so I can't help but wonder why?

[dirka dirka]

He's kinda right. You keep saying things like "it's a script you have to make" and how much C++ you've coded. Kid, I could run circles around your "knowledge". You say you have no actual education in it, I got a degree. Any computer scientist knows that *scripts*, which you keep saying are imposible to look up, tend to be the basis of building coding, and that even IF a specific script weren't available at the time, the language must make reference to the ability at some point.
I NEVER said I had no education in C++, and trust me you couldn't run circles around a turtle if you can't understand how to pull system volume information. You don't even know what a script is, do you? It is something somebody writes. You would have to write the script, just like a rotation script for sigs. The coding is available. If you lookup scripts, you're a script kidding! THATS WHERE THE TERM COMES FROM! You are suppose to make your own scripts.

For example, if I wanted to make a C++ script to provide my OpenGL creation with animation, no script would be around for my project. However, I CAN very easily find documentation on time and movement changes, and *apply* that to my specific project. Unlike this example, flash has NO DOCUMENTATION WHATSOEVER on accessing or acquiring the means to access a HDD SN. None. If you disagree, reference the flash site. You will find Sun houses every built in attribute and command of java, and similarly Flash holds documentation on its own language. Knowledge of a computer language does NOT give you full unrestricted access to whatever you want - you seem to forget that, and it's ESPECIALLY true with all of Flash's security features for both coder and user.
Flash has info on how to obtain files, doesn't it? Yeap. It is just as easy as that. I even showed the folder the file was located it.

So, you managed to tell us where on our *windows* computers we might be able to find the information? That's great. However, *you* couldn't possibly get this information, regardless of what website you needed me to go to. You have no documentation backing these claims. The industry always uses the best, and the fact is, this is unused - so I can't help but wonder why?
You definitly can get that info via a certificate. That isn't a good way though. I even said it was unused - because ITS MAKESHIFT!

This will be my last post. Mac Addys can be changed in seconds. Using them to ban is a horrible idea. Might as well stick with IPs.

[EatMine]

Flash has info on how to obtain files, doesn't it? Yeap. It is just as easy as that.I'll try to make it even more easy:

Though far from complete, the following is a list of types of sensitive information that Flash Player cannot access or make available to Flash content:

* Personal information about users, such as names, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, addresses, or anything that can be used to identify users or their locations
(http://www.adobe.com/devnet/flashplayer/articles/privacy.html)

[dirka dirka]

I'll try to make it even more easy:


(http://www.adobe.com/devnet/flashplayer/articles/privacy.html)
Right, that isn't what its meant for. That tells me nothing I already didn't know or talk about here.

[uniquinous]

Notice tho the large red text isn't talking about *meant for*, it specifically states CAN NOT. Let me put it in easier to understand terms. A SOLID LEAD BRICK can not be used for FLOATING.

This will be my last post. Mac Addys can be changed in seconds. Using them to ban is a horrible idea. Might as well stick with IPs.You're giving yourself away too easily now dirka. Now everyone knows "i'm not posting here anymore" really means "I'm admitting I'm full of crap". Extended Unique Identifiers would EASILY work fine for the problem of this thread - in no way do people pool and share such identifiers, and as such, random bystanders won't find themselves banned. There are *always* ways of hiding identity on the internet. Always. If you don't know that, you don't know anything at all. The point *this* thread is trying to address is how to avoid harming innocents - something you failed to grasp numerous times. Furthermore, changing a MAC addy for the unknown noob would not be as easy as signing onto AOL the next day.

If you lookup scripts, you're a script kidding! THATS WHERE THE TERM COMES FROM! You are suppose to make your own scripts.Actually, the term comes from the same place a movie script comes from: it's a set of lines, be it dialogue lines or coding lines. But ok, I'll look up the definition if you'd like. Webopia (http://www.webopedia.com/TERM/s/script.html) defines it as "a list of commands that can be executed". It doesn't mean you need to make it for yourself. If every computer scientist needed to create every line of code from scratch we'd still be playing Mario Bros. The field is specifically designed to share ideas and scripts. When you get to advanced computer classes, your professor will encourage you to research, utilize, edit, and implement external scripts. Don't worry, you'll grow up to do that some day.

Flash has info on how to obtain files, doesn't it? Yeap. It is just as easy as that. I even showed the folder the file was located it.Not only are you unable to find any documentation of flash that allows for file/information access of that sort, but Eat Mine has specifically found documentation which states flash can not obtain this information in any way, shape, or form.


This is where you again repeat "yeah I was wrong"
I mean, "I'm not posting here anymore". ;)

[Jeffery]

Actually, doing a little research shows that there are scripts written that retrieve such information quite easily. Unfortunately none of them are website based scripts, and the majority of them work only on certain windows based machines.
What happens to Mac users, or Linuz users? Do you really want to shut out a growing part of the population from accessing sites?

[dirka dirka]

Actually, doing a little research shows that there are scripts written that retrieve such information quite easily. Unfortunately none of them are website based scripts, and the majority of them work only on certain windows based machines.
What happens to Mac users, or Linuz users? Do you really want to shut out a growing part of the population from accessing sites?
Yeap, it is very easy.. however I had not considered any other operating systems.. Jeffery actually has the valid argument against me. Edit: Jeff I'd pos ya if I could, but I can't. I like being actually proven wrong.

Notice tho the large red text isn't talking about *meant for*, it specifically states CAN NOT. Let me put it in easier to understand terms. A SOLID LEAD BRICK can not be used for FLOATING.
Right, because the Volume System Information is usually denied to all programs. There is an algorithm to get past it..

You're giving yourself away too easily now dirka. Now everyone knows "i'm not posting here anymore" really means "I'm admitting I'm full of crap". Extended Unique Identifiers would EASILY work fine for the problem of this thread - in no way do people pool and share such identifiers, and as such, random bystanders won't find themselves banned. There are *always* ways of hiding identity on the internet. Always. If you don't know that, you don't know anything at all. The point *this* thread is trying to address is how to avoid harming innocents - something you failed to grasp numerous times. Furthermore, changing a MAC addy for the unknown noob would not be as easy as signing onto AOL the next day.
Stop. Read this slowly. I never said Mac Addy's wouldn't work against not getting the wrong people banned. I said that banned people would be able to unban themselves. What is the point in that?

Actually, the term comes from the same place a movie script comes from: it's a set of lines, be it dialogue lines or coding lines. But ok, I'll look up the definition if you'd like. Webopia (http://www.webopedia.com/TERM/s/script.html) defines it as "a list of commands that can be executed". It doesn't mean you need to make it for yourself. If every computer scientist needed to create every line of code from scratch we'd still be playing Mario Bros. The field is specifically designed to share ideas and scripts. When you get to advanced computer classes, your professor will encourage you to research, utilize, edit, and implement external scripts. Don't worry, you'll grow up to do that some day.
WOW! You are claiming to be a programmer, and you go and steal code? A script is something you make yourself. That is what I said. Now look at how I said it. Obviously someone else could make it. However then it isn't your script and you're a script kiddy. BTW, I've taken enough classes, stealing work is called plagiarism. No teacher wants you doing that.

Not only are you unable to find any documentation of flash that allows for file/information access of that sort, but Eat Mine has specifically found documentation which states flash can not obtain this information in any way, shape, or form.
I didn't search for any such information, I've done such things before. I've never done this specific project, but never the less.

[uniquinous]

I've also stressed how it's only windows your talking about (my first post of this page). Yes, Jeffery and I are on the same page, as I've stated several times, exe files would do this, but it wouldn't work for flash based or other regular internet applications.

Right, because the Volume System Information is usually denied to all programs. There is an algorithm to get past it..You do realize this magical algorithm you speak of is also known as a type of script, right? Where is this magic algorithm, might I ask? Oh right, forgot, it still doesn't exist for flash. Using words like algorithm, although out of layman's terms, still doesn't cover your crap. You can't use the tools of flash to access that information. I've searched, and the only mention I've found comes from Adobe stating that you can't do it. Yet you insist the algorithm is out there. Do tell where or what it is. Surely you know *something* about its existence, right? What function does it use? What pathway?

WOW! You are claiming to be a programmer, and you go and steal code? A script is something you make yourself. That is what I said. Now look at how I said it. Obviously someone else could make it. However then it isn't your script and you're a script kiddy. BTW, I've taken enough classes, stealing work is called plagiarism. No teacher wants you doing that.You've clearly not taken enough. Let me know when you get past "Hello World!", and I'll use small words to describe what a citation is. Don't you remember a line of video games which came out using the Quake 3 engine on non-Quake games? Was that plagiarism? Or how about open source coding projects? Is deadjournal just large-scale plagiarism of livejournal? Do you even know what open source code is? Clearly not if you think *any* use of external code is by default plagiarism.

[dirka dirka]

I've also stressed how it's only windows your talking about (my first post of this page). Yes, Jeffery and I are on the same page, as I've stated several times, exe files would do this, but it wouldn't work for flash based or other regular internet applications.
No, you really didn't. It is possible via other OS's to get the SN. Just not in the same way you would as Windows.

You do realize this magical algorithm you speak of is also known as a type of script, right? Where is this magic algorithm, might I ask? Oh right, forgot, it still doesn't exist for flash. Using words like algorithm, although out of layman's terms, still doesn't cover your crap. You can't use the tools of flash to access that information. I've searched, and the only mention I've found comes from Adobe stating that you can't do it. Yet you insist the algorithm is out there. Do tell where or what it is. Surely you know *something* about its existence, right? What function does it use? What pathway?
No, its an algorithm, not a script. You found adobe saying you can't get identifying information. HDD SN isn't used for identification. It isn't conventional.

You've clearly not taken enough. Let me know when you get past "Hello World!", and I'll use small words to describe what a citation is. Don't you remember a line of video games which came out using the Quake 3 engine on non-Quake games? Was that plagiarism? Or how about open source coding projects? Is deadjournal just large-scale plagiarism of livejournal? Do you even know what open source code is? Clearly not if you think *any* use of external code is by default plagiarism.
Source coding projects arn't plagiarism, because they are just that.. it is welcomed. All code isn't for you to steal. I'm done talking about this. You stealing code can't be called anything but being a script KIDDY!

[uniquinous]

who said anything about stealing it? You're the first one to mention that. All I said was research, reference, and use code. It's not like I suggested you decompile a prog and snag code. I said search, openly. Note the difference. Most common scripts are readily available on the internet as free code. Even more advanced scripts are referenced, as yours was in C#.

No, its an algorithm, not a script. You found adobe saying you can't get identifying information. HDD SN isn't used for identification. It isn't conventional.We found Adobe state it can't access anything of the sort. IF you knew about CS you would realize that computers dont compartmentalize what is "identifying information" from normal information. It's just information, with values set to r, rw, rwe, etc. What you just said was a human categorization. But please, tell me the difference between an algorithm and a script, and then explain how the former is not a type of the latter. Ya know, you keep saying you're gonna stop responding, but each time I prove you a moron you keep returning...

[dirka dirka]

who said anything about stealing it? You're the first one to mention that. All I said was research, reference, and use code. It's not like I suggested you decompile a prog and snag code. I said search, openly. Note the difference. Most common scripts are readily available on the internet as free code. Even more advanced scripts are referenced, as yours was in C#.
If you look at others code in order to understand how to do something, you're a script kiddie and not a programmer and that is stealing. If it isn't stealing the code, it is stealing the idea behind the code.

We found Adobe state it can't access anything of the sort. IF you knew about CS you would realize that computers dont compartmentalize what is "identifying information" from normal information. It's just information, with values set to r, rw, rwe, etc. What you just said was a human categorization. But please, tell me the difference between an algorithm and a script, and then explain how the former is not a type of the latter. Ya know, you keep saying you're gonna stop responding, but each time I prove you a moron you keep returning...
What you found is adobe stating it can't access things that are used for identification. This isn't used for ident. The quote said "anything that can be used to identify users." An algorithm is math, a script is math and functions. Each time you prove you've little understanding of how things work.

BTW, I'm way past little things like chmod understanding. It is sad you had to say that to qualify it in your mind.

[uniquinous]

dirka - you have yet to provide even a single function that would allow a coder to access that information freely without running a .exe. I'm not even asking for a full script, just a small portion - the key that would access it. Or do you plan on building a new language within flash and give it its own security access? How exactly does your magic algorithm break down the access barriers? Do tell. Pseudocode it plainly if you'd like.

If you look at code in order to understand something, you are referencing. This is actually how you are learning to program currently. Or do you believe you've never looked at a single line of code not completely constructed by your own hand? However, if you needed to build a large project which utilized a 5D array of some common struct, which was very widely used in your particular field and open source, there's no reason your entire project should lose even a minutes worth of worktime because you want to code and debug what would otherwise be a simple copy and paste background structure. You have taken data structuring, right?

[dirka dirka]

dirka - you have yet to provide even a single function that would allow a coder to access that information freely without running a .exe. I'm not even asking for a full script, just a small portion - the key that would access it. Or do you plan on building a new language within flash and give it its own security access? How exactly does your magic algorithm break down the access barriers? Do tell. Pseudocode it plainly if you'd like.
This is really hard for you to understand, isn't it? Okay, I'll start by saying I'm not writing a portion of it or all of it. Writing a portion isn't enough, it is an entire script, nothing would be proven from a portion of code. The algorithm is beyond my knowledge, but I came upon it on google while searching through the many VB projects that had done it before. Considering I don't know it, and I'm not a script kidding like you so I won't steal it, we'll leave that at that.

If you look at code in order to understand something, you are referencing. This is actually how you are learning to program currently. Or do you believe you've never looked at a single line of code not completely constructed by your own hand? However, if you needed to build a large project which utilized a 5D array of some common struct, which was very widely used in your particular field and open source, there's no reason your entire project should lose even a minutes worth of worktime because you want to code and debug what would otherwise be a simple copy and paste background structure. You have taken data structuring, right?
I've taken many classes, however most were simply downloads of lectures and stuff like that. I don't steal a single line of code. Infact, I'll show ya this. You would figure PHP databasing.. simple, use MySQL, right? Not me.


<?
// Class > Node > Data
//Note: folder "db" must be chmod 777
// new_class, exist_class, delete_class,
// exist_node, delete_node, edit_node, get_node, new_node


function new_class ( $name )
{
$fh = fopen ("db/$name.php", "w");
fwrite ($fh, "<?\n?>");
fclose ($fh);
}

function exist_class ( $name )
{
if (file_exists ("db/$name.php")) {
return true;
} else {
return false;
}
}

function delete_class ( $name )
{
unlink ("db/$name.php");
}

function exist_node ( $class, $name )
{
$exist = false;
clearstatcache();
$fs = filesize("db/$class.php");
$fh = fopen ("db/$class.php", "r");
$data = fread ($fh, $fs);
fclose ($fh);
$sdata = split("\n", "$data");
for($x = 0; $x < count($sdata); $x++)
{
if($sdata[$x] != "?>" && $sdata[$x] != "<?")
{
$cname = substr($sdata[$x], 1, strrpos($sdata[$x], "=")-2);
if($cname == $name)
{
$exist = true;
}
}
}
return $exist;
}

function delete_node ( $class, $name )
{
clearstatcache();
$fs = filesize("db/$class.php");
$fh = fopen ("db/$class.php", "r");
$data = fread ($fh, $fs);
fclose ($fh);
$sdata = split("\n", "$data");
for($x = 0; $x < count($sdata); $x++)
{
if($sdata[$x] != "?>" && $sdata[$x] != "<?")
{
$cname = substr($sdata[$x], 1, strrpos($sdata[$x], "=")-2);
if($cname != $name)
{
$buffer = $buffer . "\n" . $sdata[$x];
}
}
}
$fh = fopen ("db/$class.php", "w");
fwrite ($fh, "<?$buffer\n?>");
fclose ($fh);
}

function edit_node ( $class, $name, $newdata )
{
clearstatcache();
$fs = filesize("db/$class.php");
$fh = fopen ("db/$class.php", "r");
$data = fread ($fh, $fs);
fclose ($fh);
$sdata = split("\n", "$data");
for($x = 0; $x < count($sdata); $x++)
{
if($sdata[$x] != "?>" && $sdata[$x] != "<?")
{
$cname = substr($sdata[$x], 1, strrpos($sdata[$x], "=")-2);
if($cname == $name)
{
$buffer = $buffer . "\n\$$name = \"$newdata\";";
}else{
$buffer = $buffer . "\n" . $sdata[$x];
}
}
}
$fh = fopen ("db/$class.php", "w");
fwrite ($fh, "<?$buffer\n?>");
fclose ($fh);
}

function get_node ( $class, $name )
{
$nodedata = "";
clearstatcache();
$fs = filesize("db/$class.php");
$fh = fopen ("db/$class.php", "r");
$data = fread ($fh, $fs);
fclose ($fh);
$sdata = split("\n", "$data");
for($x = 0; $x < count($sdata); $x++)
{
if($sdata[$x] != "?>" && $sdata[$x] != "<?")
{
$cname = substr($sdata[$x], 1, strrpos($sdata[$x], "=")-2);
if($cname == $name)
{
$nodedata = substr($sdata[$x], strrpos($sdata[$x], "=") +3);
$nodedata = substr($nodedata, 0, strrpos(nodedata, ";") -2);
}
}
}
return $nodedata;
}

function new_node ( $class, $name )
{
clearstatcache();
$fs = filesize("db/$class.php");
$fh = fopen ("db/$class.php", "r");
$data = fread ($fh, $fs);
fclose ($fh);
$sdata = split("\n", "$data");
for($x = 0; $x < count($sdata); $x++)
{
if($sdata[$x] != "?>" && $sdata[$x] != "<?")
{
$buffer = $buffer . "\n" . $sdata[$x];
}
}
$fh = fopen ("db/$class.php", "w");
fwrite ($fh, "<?$buffer\n\$$name = \"\";\n?>");
fclose ($fh);
}

?>

[uniquinous]

So you're saying you *heard* of it on google, that you don't know of it yourself, that the ONLY information you can provide to back your claim is an executible from C#, and that you refuse, as usual, to in any way reference this ghost script. Interesting.

I'm sure you learned all that impressive code by never looking at a single line of other coding in the language, right? If you think the best CS people are those who memorize languages, you are sadly mistaken. The best are the ones who can go into a new language cold and, given nothing but basic referencing create whatever they so choose.

When I used to give piano lessons, I always found the traditional chinese homes had children that would memorize the music perfectly. Unfortunately, they couldn't grasp it or use the same theory on other pieces.

EDIT: we haven't had a "i'm not responding anymore" for about 3 whole posts now dirka! :)

[dirka dirka]

So you're saying you *heard* of it on google, that you don't know of it yourself, that the ONLY information you can provide to back your claim is an executible from C#, and that you refuse, as usual, to in any way reference this ghost script. Interesting.
No. I'm saying I saw the algorithm on a site linked from google while doing homework on it many years back. I was asked to explore a means of securing an AOL Internal Host Account without using SecureID. See, the problem is that SecureID costs way too much. Although, that would even be a perfect way to go in this situation. One of those, I hacked Steve Case's account and only didn't do time because I agreed to help them fix it, kinda things.

I'm sure you learned all that impressive code by never looking at a single line of other coding in the language, right? If you think the best CS people are those who memorize languages, you are sadly mistaken. The best are the ones who can go into a new language cold and, given nothing but basic referencing create whatever they so choose.
I learned all that code by reading books. Books that were on basics, yes "Hello World" kinda bullshit. I've never stolen a line of code.

The best programmers are those who can think outside the box. Languages are set in stone now days. There arn't many new ones coming about. You can't think far enough outside of the box to use system volume information as a means of ident because simply put.. it isn't used for that in the first place. Then if you can think that far outside the box, you think that because flash claims it can't retrieve ident info, means it can't retrieve info that can be used for ident that wasn't suppose to in the first place.

When I used to give piano lessons, I always found the traditional chinese homes had children that would memorize the music perfectly. Unfortunately, they couldn't grasp it or use the same theory on other pieces.
Thats cool. I've done both. You're slow if you have to look stuff up, that is never good. You're dumb if you can't apply it, or atleast thinking wrong, to other situations of the same basic concept.

[xerent]

Xerent is correct. That isn't hard coding. That is putting together a ton of easy coding.

I think it's hard. It's hard for me at least. I've spent nearly 2 years on and off trying to understand all the intracies. Some of it's easy... some of it stumps me for a while.

Just to name a few things that I spent some time on:

- A* Algorithims (Proactive and Reactive Pathfinding) (!!!)
- Socket Servers
- Learning PHP and SQL, getting them to play nicely with Flash
- Converting a 2D board into a 2.5D enviroment (Isometrics)
- Configuring Plugins
- Move Validations and Executions
- Trying to figure out dozens upon dozens of logical 'bugs' within the game, when there's no one to help you.

Tutorials are great, and so are books, but they can only show you the tools. You have to teach yourself how to use them. And it's not easy... not for me at least.

[EatMine]

Goooood post!

xerent, i have a problem which is driving me nuts since weeks. While reading your reference to pathfinding, it occured to me that this might be a way to solve my problem.
So, uhmm, before i start spending a lot of time reading about it, maybe you can answer me this question:
is pathfinding only about "finding the shortest path"?
Cause unfortunately i'm not interested in that. I'm looking for a concept to "explore a huge unknown map and find the mountains". Did you ever stumble across something like that when you dealt with pathfinding?

[xerent]

is pathfinding only about "finding the shortest path"?

Cause unfortunately i'm not interested in that. I'm looking for a concept to "explore a huge unknown map and find the mountains". Did you ever stumble across something like that when you dealt with pathfinding?

The definition of pathfinding is to find a path from point A to point B. Efficency is usually desired, but not necessary.

However, you have to have a starting point, A, and an ending point, B.

With your problem, you either have no pre-defined ending point, or you have LOTS of pre-defined ending points.

If all you want is to map out an unknown area, one option you have is to write a function that sees if there are any unknown parts, and travel there, perhaps using A*. The problem with this is that there might not be a possible path to the unknown destination, leading the character to walk around endlessly.

Another, probably easier and more reliable method is to take the left-turn approach.

With any 2-Dimensional maze, if you make a left turn every time you are able to make a left (this works with right turns too, if you're into that sort of thing.) turn, or if you turn left every time you hit a wall, you will reach the finish. You can apply this logic to your unknown area, assuming it's 2D-ish. If you're exploring an unknown area, continue, and make left turns as applicable. If you hit a patch of known area, do a 180 and continue making left turns as before. If at any time you find yourself in the same area facing the same direction, then you've explored all there is to explore, You should then convert all 'explored' territory to 'known' territory, and see if you can find a destination to the next piece of unexplored land, if it exists.

This is off topic though. Any more questions, feel free to PM or AIM me. My AIM should be pretty obvious. ^^:

[dirka dirka]

I think it's hard. It's hard for me at least. I've spent nearly 2 years on and off trying to understand all the intracies. Some of it's easy... some of it stumps me for a while.

Just to name a few things that I spent some time on:

- A* Algorithims (Proactive and Reactive Pathfinding) (!!!)
- Socket Servers
- Learning PHP and SQL, getting them to play nicely with Flash
- Converting a 2D board into a 2.5D enviroment (Isometrics)
- Configuring Plugins
- Move Validations and Executions
- Trying to figure out dozens upon dozens of logical 'bugs' within the game, when there's no one to help you.

Tutorials are great, and so are books, but they can only show you the tools. You have to teach yourself how to use them. And it's not easy... not for me at least.

Maybe I am weird. Everything there comes easy to me. The debugging is the shitty part though. Thats why putting the code together is the hard part, but aside for that its all easy coding.