How Hard is it to move out?

[Punishment]

Well,

As of late I've been having quite a few arguments with my parents, mostly me disagreeing with them on what to do. I am 17 years old, I was wondering how hard it is to move out. I have some money in the bank (Probably enough for a few months rent in most places) and I was just wondering if it is a big transition to go and live by yourself. (Please don't respond saying I should just listen to my parents, I know this, but it is quite hard to agree with them on some things, and they've been threatening to kick me out , and I would like to be the one to decide what to do , not just leave because they tell me to :p)

(And sorry for the rather meaningless thread >_>)

[boogieman]

Not a meaningless thread.

*Goes off to edit*

EDIT:

Alright, after editing for awhile, I've come up with some advice that may sound odd coming from another 17 year old male, but here goes... I'd say that it depends on your plans... If you want to go to college, tough it out and maybe your parents will help you. If not, then it depends on what job you want to get... Something like a bank teller will get you enough money to live in an apartment with a roomate... and to live rather nicely. If you want something like McDonald's, well then good luck.

Your best bet is if you go off and don't plan on college, to get a good job somewhere like Target like my friend, and work your way up to management. He joined Target a few years ago... and through putting his mind into it, he worked his way up to the coleader of the security force there. His job now consists of walking through Target in plain clothes most days, looking through the store for shoplifters and apprehending them if he catches any. The rest of the time he's manning the cameras.

So whatever your choice, go for management or ownership. The pay and benefits are better, and you get more out of it... maybe even a chance to get a college degree...

Hope this helped... :)

[|ReNeGaDe|]

Hm.. I think it would be a huge transition by moving out, Your parents threatening to kick you out.. Wow.. I'd move into an apartment with a friend..

[Punishment]

Yea, I was thinking of renting a room close by, but I think I would like it more if i moved a few states away (Also, the fact that I live in a rather expensive neighborhood, and I know i can't afford anything here even if i work full time (except a room))

[|ReNeGaDe|]

What's your job? And don't you have any close buddies you'd move in with? then you can split the pay 50/50

[boogieman]

Edited. :)

[Punishment]

Well, all of my friends still live with their parents. Right now I'm a swim coach, I work part time, but I've been saving my money for a while. Have a couple thousand saved in my bank at the moment.

[EricH]

It really all depends. At 17, even if you move out, your parents still own you. Infact, until you're 21 in NYS (and probably other states too) your parents are responcible for stuff. Moving out isn't hard. Any dolt can do it. The question is, where is your life going if you can't learn to get along atleast in some way with your parents for a few years.

[Serge]

Yeah, it sounds to me like you should tough it out at home. Moving out will make your few thousand dollar disappear _very_ fast. Better if you save that for college or a car.

[boogieman]

[subliminal message]Go to college.[/subliminal message]

[Punishment]

Yeah, it sounds to me like you should tough it out at home. Moving out will make your few thousand dollar disappear _very_ fast. Better if you save that for college or a car.

Have a car already :p

I don't know, I still have a year of high school left, although, Right after I turned 16 I took a California High School Proficiency Exam, and it is sort of an equivalent to a High School Diploma, however, I would have to go to community college for a year or two in order to transfer to a real college :/

[Hatchet Klown]

Your best bet is to toughen it out, go to college and live in the dorms your first year, work/attend school, get an apartment your next few years. Come out of college and live in some shithole for a year, pay off as much student loans as you can, save ~5 grand, and get a nicer place the following year.

Optimal and do-able.

[Coffin Fedder]

I mean, sure I'm pretty young in all. But, do you know what you want to go up for in collage.Because by the time your there getting your bachelors degree. You can be making money that you want and easily get your on apartment near the collage or stay at your parents and save the money for a house. By the time your going for another degree, your probably gonna make more money because a lot of jobs look at if you have a high school degree and if your in collage. I have a cousin, he's going for his PHD in psycholgy. He's doing really well right now because he got a scholorship to a school so there paying for him to live in the apartments that are apart of the school. He has to pay for a couple of things though which it isin't that much though.

He goes to his hometown to go to the hospital and works with people he has clients already and he has to work with the preschoolers with all of the things there learning. Enuxation and words and how smart they are for there age. So I suggest toughing it out and saving.

[Merdoc.]

So, I am moving out with a buddy next summer, I will be 17. Should be fun. :) I enjoy it. But I expect to come back for the school year, since I wont be working full time.

[Punishment]

Well, Coffin, couple things

1) Sadly, I fucked around wayy too much in my first 3 years of high school to transfer to a good school. (Not F's, but mostly B's and C's) , So, I'm not thinking there is any chance I'll be getting any free housing with my grades.

2) For a while, I wanted to be a doctor (years ago :p) And then I realized how much more school i would have to do. It is a crazy amount, and frankly, I do not have hte patience to stick it out.

[Coffin Fedder]

Well, lets see. I can name one big person that was really Succesful. LeBron James, he wasn't even gonna graduate high school from what I heard. But, look at him now, one of the best players to ever play the game of basketball, so this is what I can say to you. Go out, do your best at something. If you don't get it, keep trying and trying. Never give up, I've learned that before, trust me.

[shatterstar]

well, there are plenty of ways to get free housing without having stellar grades. do what i did in college and work for the housing department. i got 65% off of rent a semester, a free meal plan, priority and best-pick selection on all room. you can work for student govt., financial commitees and many other things and cut $$.

I really wouldn't recommend moving out till you really have to. First a couple of thousand is absolutely nothing. (no offense, but its true). you'll blow that just on the security/utilities deposit+ 1st month's rent. Then are a lot of little things that a family support system take care of that you'll now have to deal with. biggest will be dealing with bills. then there will be other mundane stuff like maintaining your apt, groceries, managing money etc etc. With a job it can all add up and at 17 you wont have the financial freedom and i doubt the life experience to make it easier.
you'll learn a lot on dealing with life, people and yourself between now and 22-24. dont jump the gun and hurt yourself. a great step to make is moving out and going to school and if possible staying on campus. it makes the mechanics of living easier when you're starting out on yr own, any college degree anywhere is a good investment, it helps you network into good opportunites, list goes on.

heh everyone wants to be a doc till they count the years in school.

[EatMine]

EDIT: looks like shatterstar was faster :)

Have a couple thousand saved in my bank at the moment.Well, i can tell you, if you're all on yourself and don't have a regular income, that money won't last long.
You can't imagine how many scumbags knock on your door every month and want a piece of yours, until you see it with your own eyes. That's the only reason you'll have a letterbox, so that they can put their bills into it...

I moved out with 20, never regretted it.
Though 17 probably would have been too early.

[Darth Malak]

Punishment, I had the same exact problem as you do right about now. I actually dropped out of High school my senior year and only had half a credit left to get. I went back and got the Credit, ( I went to a privite school which I disliked a lot ) I'm going to collage right now to become a Techincian. So I suggest you stay with your parents and keep saving. A couple Grand aint gonna get you anywhere now a days trust me, I learned that hard way. But now, I'm working in oil fields part time for my father and I'm making 26.50 an hour. Long hours but there worth them.

[RAGING INFERNO]

hey pun, I know that I'm not the best place to look for help but I really think that you should wait a while. I'm not sure if that amount of money is really enough to go arond either.. And of course the parents always seem stupid, foolish and wrong but you're only seventeen? not that it's too yong but you know, enjoy not having to pay rent and bills for a little longer. I know it's still pretty hard to live with parents and stuff. I think my mom and dad have really bad jugdement. I still think you should maybe get a degree in college or somthing. that ups the chance of landing a good job and sometimes ups the pay. it's really your decisision but you know..:) parents can really suck at times

if you leave will you be leaving TAO?? and also it is super cool to have a car?

[Anarchy_United]

Punish, I have only one piece of very important advice on your decision. No matter what you do, don't regret it. If 15 years down the road, and you start wondering what would happen if you made the other decision, your gonna get all depressed. Do what ever you want to, but don't let yourself regret your decision.

[ffr]

Well, lets see. I can name one big person that was really Succesful. LeBron James, he wasn't even gonna graduate high school from what I heard. But, look at him now, one of the best players to ever play the game of basketball, so this is what I can say to you. Go out, do your best at something. If you don't get it, keep trying and trying. Never give up, I've learned that before, trust me.

This, is probably the best advice in the whole thread. :)

[Cuathon]

are you kidding? trusting AU is a horible idea. : )>
for as much as my opinion is worth on this tpic, i suggest staying at home. although it would be easier to help you f we knew what kinda stuff your parents want you to do that you dont like.

[speaker4thedead]

Well,

As of late I've been having quite a few arguments with my parents, mostly me disagreeing with them on what to do. I am 17 years old, I was wondering how hard it is to move out. I have some money in the bank (Probably enough for a few months rent in most places) and I was just wondering if it is a big transition to go and live by yourself. (Please don't respond saying I should just listen to my parents, I know this, but it is quite hard to agree with them on some things, and they've been threatening to kick me out , and I would like to be the one to decide what to do , not just leave because they tell me to :p)

(And sorry for the rather meaningless thread >_>)
Well ill probley find it easyer to move out then offers, I moved out from my mums when I was 6, I went to live with my sister and ahve been ever since then, so it depends how close you are to your parents

[Pinkie TDP]

I moved in with my fiance at 18 and here were my expenses:

1.) Apartment - $1075/month + 2 dog fees of $20/month
2.) Electricity - $80/month
3.) Gas - $60/month
4.) Cable/internet/TV - $100/month
5.) Gas for the car - $200/month
6.) Groceries - $200/month
7.) Insurance for cars - $125/month
8.) Renters insurance - $15/month


That doesn't include things like cell phones ($40/month for each of our phones), subscriptions to magazines, games, newspapers, etc, or our tuition. And this especially doesn't include buying any clothes, going to the movies, etc.

And one more expense, if you're moving into an apartment for the first time expect to pay about $500 security deposit, 2 months rent, application fees, and not to mention the furniture, plates, silverware, etc you need to live in your apartment. So unless you can save up about $4,000 just to get into an apartment with something in it, then afford the $2,000+ a month I'd recommend dealing with your parents daily.

I'd just recommend working more hours so you don't have to be around your parents, then you can make apartment living more realistic once you turn 18.

[EricH]

Heretofore you've approached your fathers management as you would with any malevolent supremacy. While in the act of defiance you can not win, such defiance is colloquial to your fathers cryptic rule. As the adage goes, "If you can't beat them then join them." In the case of Punishment versus Punishments Father, this adage shalt be milled to death. Alternatively of fairly crying objection to every bid your ruler makes, double his demand on your own. Such principles that dictate life must be forfeit to prostrate your ruler in his own request. At which point in subsequent time that which said ruler no longer can demand any more, prolong a reversion to near normalcy. In the end of said manipulation of ruler, not only will you be free of dictation but you will also asset a new work ethic in your own that if the time require could be called upon.

[xerent]

I moved out when I was 17.

The actual moving out part is the easiest thing in the world.

I had a couple friends that I could stay with, and they were pretty understanding. I was able to get a job, eat ramen and fried dumplings, and have a pretty good life.

The thing is, in today's day and age, you shouldn't expect to be completely independent. It's neigh-impossible.

Either do what dirka suggests above, which might be your best option, or if you do move out, it's infinitely easier if you have a friend or four living on thier own already that you can rent a closet from or something.

Also, as a sidenote if you plan to go to gollege, you aren't completely independent in NYS (Or anywhere in the US for that matter (I think)) until you reach the age of 24, there are a few exceptions to this rule, but unless you fought in any wars, or your parents beat you when you were a kid and the police had to take you away, it's steadfast. That means, as far as financial aid is concerned, you will have to claim your parent's income if you hope to get any money through the school for college. This basically means you'll have to stay on decent terms with your parents in order to obtain thier tax information from year to year, and if your parents make a substantial amount of money, you aren't getting aid.

[Lucien Lachance]

It's hard, but stick it to the man!

[Mr.Wister]

It's really hard for me..I had to move to a different state and start a new school and life, I always got picked on becuase I was the new kid, but I got along pretty good after all that stopped..I made 5 new friends the first day..It's pretty hard though...

[EricH]

It's really hard for me..I had to move to a different state and start a new school and life, I always got picked on becuase I was the new kid, but I got along pretty good after all that stopped..I made 5 new friends the first day..It's pretty hard though...
How does thou qualify the muse in which they make a certain number of friends? Is something to that regard not undefined?

[~~CaTaNa~~]

im 16 and ive moved out....it wasnt too hard until my parents started crying them the guilt kind of starts to kick in and wonder if your doing the right thing..truth is you are leaving home is a big step in someones life as it makes them become more independant

just think.. are you moving out for the right reasons?

[uniquinous]

First- it's not "moving out" if you're MOVING IN with another relative (father, sister, anyone else already financially established and supportive).

Second- Pre-emptively moving out because your parents threatened it is the equivalent of "you can't fire me! I quit!". What I mean by that is that your parents probably won't do it, and you doing it first isn't gaining any control of the situation, it's just you trying to think you have control.

Third- This is not uncommon with teenagers around your age. However, if you tough it out the last year and then go away to college things can only get better.

Fourth- you don't have enough money. Pinky was the best person to demonstrate this. I'd say if you lived *really* cheap, you'd be at $900 per month, and that's just basic housing, utilities, and food. If you plan on paying for "your car" (which I'm sure is really your parent's car), if you plan on having a social life, if you plan on doing anything, this number will go up. The few thousand dollars you have will be sucked dry before you could find a job, which brings me to...

Fifth- The jobs you can get at that age are not going to be able to support the lifestyle you currently live. You will be going from upper middle class to lower class overnight, and you will NOT be happy about it. You don't realize it now, but trust me on that one.

Sixth- You're, too sexy for your shirt. Too sexy for your shirt. So sexy it hurts.

Seventh- Think of it as a right of passage for all teenagers, to put up with their parents. Besides, you and I both know, despite the fact that they may seem to be overdominating and rui9ning your life, they mean well. Not only are their intentions well-placed, but they are based on the accurate learning experiences of their own life - they simply don't want you to make the same mistakes they've seen so many others make over the years, or perhaps even their mistakes. Despite all the fighting, all the threats, all the crap - they love you. Keep that in mind. :)

[EricH]

Seventh- Think of it as a right of passage for all teenagers, to put up with their parents. Besides, you and I both know, despite the fact that they may seem to be overdominating and rui9ning your life, they mean well. Not only are their intentions well-placed, but they are based on the accurate learning experiences of their own life - they simply don't want you to make the same mistakes they've seen so many others make over the years, or perhaps even their mistakes. Despite all the fighting, all the threats, all the crap - they love you. Keep that in mind. :)
Try to reminisce every time your captors get the worse of you to surface that genuinely it is a "right of passage," nevertheless there exist no book of rules that declare you may not have fun concurrently. Manipulation is vital.

[uniquinous]

Manipulating your parents? I don't think moving out is really manipulation, not do I feel your idea of manipulating while remaining is smart- in fact it's much more likely to worsen his situation. This is where you tell me "not if the manipilation is done correctly", and that's when I call you a moron again. (so let's just skip that part).

btw, i'm guessing that's a language script you made/found? Some other noob did something very similar to it a few days ago, but clearly didn't know what the words exactly meant as the grammar was completely shot.

[EricH]

Manipulating your parents? I don't think moving out is really manipulation, not do I feel your idea of manipulating while remaining is smart- in fact it's much more likely to worsen his situation. This is where you tell me "not if the manipilation is done correctly", and that's when I call you a moron again. (so let's just skip that part).
I see no complication in manipulating anything. We do ultimately manipulate everything we interact with. What is wrong with morphing it to a conscious level and using it the best you may?

btw, i'm guessing that's a language script you made/found? Some other noob did something very similar to it a few days ago, but clearly didn't know what the words exactly meant as the grammar was completely shot.
Incorrect, its an adventure to better myself.

[Jeffery]

Well,

As of late I've been having quite a few arguments with my parents, mostly me disagreeing with them on what to do. I am 17 years old, I was wondering how hard it is to move out. I have some money in the bank (Probably enough for a few months rent in most places) and I was just wondering if it is a big transition to go and live by yourself. (Please don't respond saying I should just listen to my parents, I know this, but it is quite hard to agree with them on some things, and they've been threatening to kick me out , and I would like to be the one to decide what to do , not just leave because they tell me to :p)

(And sorry for the rather meaningless thread >_>)
1) Do you have a job that, by itself, will pay for all rent, utilities, food, transportation and entertainment costs?
2) Would your parents allow you to move out on your own?

[Cuathon]

dirka, you are mis-using so many words. just give up.

[R G]

This is one of those ironies of life...

You think you know everything there is to know and your parents are a bunch of old people who know absolutely nothing about your life or what you are going through.

The truth of the matter is that you really don't know shit...and your parents know alot more than you, as alot of the advise comes from making some of the same mistakes they see you about to make or are making.

You look as your parents as people who are just nagging you. Ironically your parents are nagging you because they care about you....yea I know you might not see that now...and sure each generation has their own pitfalls for teenagers, but if you really break them down alot of them are the same.

It will be many years later when you have your own children and get a few years under your belt that you will appreciate your parents. I just hope that you can later look your parents in the eye and tell them that you finally get it and appreciate them for what they did for you and for what they did try to teach you.

How would I know all of this? At 17 years old I felt the same way you did. I wanted to be out...spread my wings...get away from my nagging parents...all that horse shit.

It wasn't until I had my own kids that I realized that my parents were nagging me so that I would not make some of the same mistakes that they made...to help me out through my own journey of life.

If there was one thing that would make this world a better place it would be that children would listen to their parents for their advise...they aren't right all of the time...just most.

[EatMine]

DoubleU.O.R.Dee

By the way, dirka, don't listen to the naysayers, i believe in your adventure.

[Cuathon]

intellectually most of us teenagers understand that. but it doesnt help much.

and sometimes the parents are actually being real dumbasses. this kind of parent might try to make their kid follow their(the parent's) dream which they did not succeed with themselves or the ones, like my friends who go over the edge with the school and such. seriously, these people grounded him for B's. and after he complained and they finally stopped he's still getting straight A's.
this also applies to parents who make their children do activities they know the kids hate even though it isnt necessary or the kid could(contrary to the parents beliefs) get the same value from something they actually enjoy.

[Realist]

This is one of those ironies of life...

You think you know everything there is to know and your parents are a bunch of old people who know absolutely nothing about your life or what you are going through.

The truth of the matter is that you really don't know shit...and your parents know alot more than you, as alot of the advise comes from making some of the same mistakes they see you about to make or are making.

That's ridiculous.

I don't see how you can possibly make any of those judgements based solely on what Punishment has stated on this thread.

It just isn't true that everyone goes through this, that this is some generational constant. Some people have more serious problems with their parents than other people. Some relationships between familiy members are far more harmful to keep than to abandon.

Quit the pretentiousness. Stop talking down from your biased and extremely limited vantage point. Maybe you had mistaken and bad ideas when you were 17 which you now realize to be false, this does not mean that every 17 year old has an incorrect view of their own situation.

[Cuathon]

and of course, Realist came in with another often correct view.

[R G]

That's ridiculous.

I don't see how you can possibly make any of those judgements based solely on what Punishment has stated on this thread.

It just isn't true that everyone goes through this, that this is some generational constant. Some people have more serious problems with their parents than other people. Some relationships between familiy members are far more harmful to keep than to abandon.

Quit the pretentiousness. Stop talking down from your biased and extremely limited vantage point. Maybe you had mistaken and bad ideas when you were 17 which you now realize to be false, this does not mean that every 17 year old has an incorrect view of their own situation.

Spoken like a teenager who think he knows everything and everyone knows nothing at all...;)


Of course my comments were based on generalizations...sorry you failed to see that.

[Cuathon]

Spoken like a teenager who think he knows everything and everyone knows nothing at all...;)


Of course my comments were based on generalizations...sorry you failed to see that.
spoken like someone who thinks that age necessarily brings wisdom or even experience and doesnt really believe that young people know whats good for them.

[R G]

spoken like someone who thinks that age necessarily brings wisdom or even experience and doesnt really believe that young people know whats good for them.


LOL You got a lot to learn Cuathon...;)


No matter how much you think you know you probally don't know anything...only until you realize this will you really know alot.

[Cuathon]

oh i know i dont know anything, or at least i dont care enough to act on my knowledge. but some kids do.

[R G]

Ah so you have found the key to knowledge...lol

[Realist]

Spoken like a teenager who think he knows everything and everyone knows nothing at all...;)

Nice response.

Your post, on the other hand, was spoken like a smug adult who thinks his limited experiences and broad assumptions must apply to everyone in every situation.

If you want to tell us about your own life for the benefit of hearing another perspective, fine. But please don't deign to assert that other people's lives must be like yours, that Punishment can't possibly have legitimite gripes, that being a teenager necessarily means that one's judgement is absolutely inferior to anyone who has outgrown that stage.

Because you are quite wrong there.

[Cuathon]

lol. i agree with you there realist.

all the adults gang up on me though. they all say what R G said. like ten of them at one. its horrible. and they yell at me and if i say anything i get punished. power mongering dictators!

[R G]

Nice response.

Your post, on the other hand, was spoken like a smug adult who thinks his limited experiences and broad assumptions must apply to everyone in every situation.


How you get that I have no idea...Punishment did not speak specifically about his situation. I spoke in generalities about what I have seen in my own experiences and experiences from other teens thoughout my life.

If you want to tell us about your own life for the benefit of hearing another perspective, fine. But please don't deign to assert that other people's lives must be like yours, that Punishment can't possibly have legitimite gripes, that being a teenager necessarily means that one's judgement is absolutely inferior to anyone who has outgrown that stage.

Because you are quite wrong there.

Sure there are exceptions to every rule and I have seen those too. For example:

-Abusive parents
-Irresponsible parents
-Reserved for those I fail to mention...lol

But I didn't get that from reading Punishments posts. He was talking about his parents and him getting in arguements with them...and most likely that is from nagging...thus my assumptions be they wrong or right. ;)

[R G]

lol. i agree with you there realist.

all the adults gang up on me though. they all say what R G said. like ten of them at one. its horrible. and they yell at me and if i say anything i get punished. power mongering dictators!


Sorry for the double post....


GO TO YOUR ROOM CUATHON!!! and crawl out of Realist's butt and voice your own opinions...damn

[Realist]

lol. i agree with you there realist.

all the adults gang up on me though. they all say what R G said. like ten of them at one. its horrible. and they yell at me and if i say anything i get punished. power mongering dictators!

:|

It is inevitable that unchecked and absolute power will lead to abuse, and in our system, parental control is nearly that.

There aren't even many responses except to live it out...until you're punishment's age and at least have a few choices, sometimes.

[Anarchy_United]

This thread was completely devoid of spam.


I'm ugly!

[EatMine]

It is inevitable that unchecked and absolute power will lead to abuse, and in our system, parental control is nearly that.Didn't you just spurn R G for generalizing? :confused:

[Hugh Junit]

Well,

As of late I've been having quite a few arguments with my parents, mostly me disagreeing with them on what to do. I am 17 years old, I was wondering how hard it is to move out. I have some money in the bank (Probably enough for a few months rent in most places) and I was just wondering if it is a big transition to go and live by yourself. (Please don't respond saying I should just listen to my parents, I know this, but it is quite hard to agree with them on some things, and they've been threatening to kick me out , and I would like to be the one to decide what to do , not just leave because they tell me to :p)

(And sorry for the rather meaningless thread >_>)

I think the biggest challenge for a teenager in your situation is trying to grasp how decisions you make right now will affect your life down the road.
It's easy for an adult to say you "don't know sh*t", and it also serves no purpose at all. I know plenty of adults who could be correctly accused of the same thing, parents included.
I don't know your situation, but I remember how impossible it was for me to communicate with my parents at your age. They're good people, I've always thought so, but I wanted so badly to be taken seriously, and I just didn't feel like they understood or respected me at all. I didn't feel like they had a clue where I was coming from. More importantly, I didn't really want them to know.
I just wanted to be left alone, out from under them. I wanted to be an adult.
Maybe some of that sounds familiar. Maybe not.
My advice to you would be to try and look at the big picture. You mentioned that you have a hard time agreeing with your parents on some things. That's completely normal. Maybe your relationship with them will improve in years to come, as mine did, or maybe not. It's impossible for me to say, but ask yourself if moving out at 17 is truly the best thing for you.
As far as your actual question is concerned, about the difficulty of moving out, I'd say that an accurate, general answer is yes. It's probably safe to say that moving out and living on your own at 17, with limited funds and part-time job, would be difficult.
But nobody responding in here knows your situation better than you. Personally, I know now that my parents genuinely cared about me. I stopped talking to them, they worried, they tried to get through to me, I didn't respond, they got frustrated, I got mad, they got mad.
Try to ask yourself why you fight with your parents. What's behind it, on both ends. Chances are they truly do care about you. And if they don't, then do what you think is best.

[Realist]

Punishment did not speak specifically about his situation. I spoke in generalities about what I have seen in my own experiences and experiences from other teens thoughout my life.

Yes...this is exactly what I said in my first post....you spoke in generalities which may have been true for you, but are not generally true. Ok, maybe all you meant was that most of the time normally as you have seen it this is the case. But I didn't get that from your post.

Nevertheless, I am glad that you acknowledge that there are exceptions, even ones which you have seen. Good, I think that adds to the thread.

[Realist]

Didn't you just spurn R G for generalizing? :confused:

Yes, for generalizing from his own experiences to assert that it applied in a specific case. My generalization is general all the way through, as in an axiom of sorts.

By "unchecked power will lead to abuse" I don't mean that it is not possible to have a situation of unchecked power that will be positive and beneficial to all, just that it tends not to be that way.

In any case, I entered this thread just because I thought RG's statement was a rather bad thing for a teenager in a confusing life situation to read without response, not to spout my own social beliefs. This discussion has moved away from that, so I'd rather not continue to pollute Punishment's thread.

Hugh Junit just made a very good post from the vantage point of someone who's "been through all that."

[shatterstar]

edit: nvm. Hugh said it.

[uniquinous]

I have to agree wtih hugh and R G here, as my own post has previously mentioned. Yes, all of us are making generalizations, but so do doctors everytime you ask what's wrong with you - there are just some generalizations that are so common they can be expected. Light runny nose and some caughing is probably a weak cold, though there are a TON of exceptions which pop up rarely.

I have a feeling though, if Pun returns to clarify, that you will find a lot of what the post-teenagers are saying falls into place nicely. It's clear they aren't abusive parents, it's clear they have some care for their son, it's clear the arguments are coming from what one person feels is best for the other.

[Cuathon]

I have to agree wtih hugh and R G here, as my own post has previously mentioned. Yes, all of us are making generalizations, but so do doctors everytime you ask what's wrong with you - there are just some generalizations that are so common they can be expected. Light runny nose and some caughing is probably a weak cold, though there are a TON of exceptions which pop up rarely.

I have a feeling though, if Pun returns to clarify, that you will find a lot of what the post-teenagers are saying falls into place nicely. It's clear they aren't abusive parents, it's clear they have some care for their son, it's clear the arguments are coming from what one person feels is best for the other.

in puni's case you are probably correct. this discussionw ould be so much better if he told us what he's arguing about them with.

[Glamdring]

It would be very difficult to pull it off unless you drop out of high school and either work (nearly) full time or start community college and work part time. If you've got the equivalent of a GED, you can actually start getting an associate's degree at community college, and waste little or no time in the long run. You might even save yourself a year of schooling.

You might consider actually sitting down with your parents and talking to them, quite seriously, about the possibility of you moving out and starting on your own. If they really were thinking about kicking you out, it might actually show them that you're mature enough to stand up and just take that on. They may even be willing to help you out financially, if you do the college thing.

On the other hand, one more year isn't going to kill you, and then you'll be home free. Moving out now would be a struggle, but you'd grow into it, and you could do it (depending on where you live... housing is out the roof in any big city).

Anyway, my break has gone too long now. Hope this helps. If you'd like, I can talk to you about this on msn or aim or irc. PM me or something.

[Glamdring]

That's enough of that.

[Northwind]

First of all, I can’t really speak to the difficulties of moving out on your own as a teenager.

However, I do know a couple of things:

First, your parents cannot kick you out at 17. It is illegal for them to do so and the Department of Social Services would pay them a visit if they ever got wind of this. (This can depend on the state, but it is rare for parents to be allowed to kick out minors.)

Second, if you do leave, you will need to go to court (I think that’s how it’s done) to be declared an emancipated minor. Otherwise, you cannot legally sign documents like leases, electricity and water contracts, etc. This will also negate your parents’ income when looking for any types of financial aid for college, etc.

Third, you haven’t really given us much to go on regarding your interactions with your parents. Have you tried sitting down and negotiating with them? This may seem ridiculously simple, but sometime the most obvious solutions are overlooked. If they don’t want to negotiate, you can make the argument that negotiation is an important life skill and by working with you on this, they will actually be helping you learn how to be a mature adult. :)

Also, talk with them about their reasons for forbidding you to do whatever it is that they are forbidding you to do. Try to understand their reasoning even if you don’t agree with them. Once you understand where they are coming from, you will be able to more effectively figure out how to address their concerns. It is practically a fact of nature that the more worried parents are about their kids, the more intrusive and controlling they are. Figure out how to address their fears and you are likely to be able to get more leeway from them.

It is easy for parents and teenagers to get locked into battle-mode where both try to shout each other down while refusing to listen to the concerns that each have. Simply talking to one another can sometimes be surprisingly effective. If you guys can’t have a civil discussion anymore, you could look into a family therapist that can help all of you sort things out in a setting that is less likely to immediately blow-up into more non-productive arguments.

These last couple of paragraphs are moot if your parents are abusive or overly controlling. In that case, you might be better off to get out of the house. As others have mentioned, think about friends or family in the area that you might live with. This may be a far better solution than moving out on your own at your age. If your parents are abusive or overly controlling and you can’t stay with friends or relatives, it still might be worth the hassle of moving out. This will likely be a pain in the ass (when it isn’t really great to have the extra freedom) and require you to grow up quickly. However, if you have a decent head on your shoulders, it’s probably not gonna kill you.

[starwolf4888]

And if you do emancipate yourself, which you'll need to, You'll need to get your own insurance. It's not cheap.

[Jeffery]

Um, insurance hell. It;s called "rent" "utilities" "transportation" "food".

Depending on where in the country he lives he is looking at needing to earn a minimum of $600-$1500 a month just for basic survival.

[Teacher]

Wow, there are some real good posts in this thread. Even though there was an argument going on in page 3 and 4, I have to agree with both sides.

Punisher, as far as moving out, the majority is correct that it is far too big of a hassle to deal with at your age, especially if you have yet to finish high school. (Providing parent problems does not include abuse, etc...) I would greatly consider staying for that final year. I can't remember whose idea it was, but increasing your hours at work may be a good idea along with trying to have a civilized conversation with both or at least one (the calmest parent)

Since, there is little information as to what the arguments are about it is difficult to say that "the parents are right, and you are wrong." As you have already heard multiple people say, "Most" parents try to prevent you from making their mistakes. As a parent of an 11 and 7 year old, let me give you another point of view.

WE AS PARENTS HAVE NO CLUE WHAT WE ARE DOING!!!

Think about this, you’re contemplating moving out into the world, trying a new adventure, you have no clue what to do, how to go about doing it, if you mess something up, it can most likely be fixed with some work. Parents have a child, begin reading books and magazines, about how to properly change a diaper, what to feed them, etc... Up until they get to that age where the child's independence begins to show, for the most part parenting is not that difficult. You tell the kid what to do him/her normally goes and does it. May take a little discipline but they do it.

Now that your independence is showing, they may feel that you’re making mistakes in your life, they start getting on your case, and you feel provoked and fight back. You feel they have that attitude that you know nothing and they know everything. Just for example, this is how I feel with my daughter, I KNOW NOTHING!! I have no idea what to do when she decides she is going to do something, what can I do? Tell her no! Then she decides to rebel against me and does it anyhow, what can I "LEGALLY" (that is a whole other pet peeve of mine.) do now? Nothing, tell her no again. All the time I'm worried, I can let her make her own mistakes, in which case some of them may ruin or possibly end her life. If this was to happen, I would feel that I would fail as a parent. I failed to protect my child from an unknown. Or I can NAG the shit out of her, in which case, she may feel the same way towards me as you currently feel towards your parents, and she decides "FUCK IT! I'm doing it anyway."

In all honesty, the only answer I have managed to come up with so far, is talking to her. With any hope, in our talk she will share how she feels and why she wants to do something, and I will share my personal experiences and hope that she makes the right choice in the end.

Moral of the story is: Take into account, your parents are scared and traveling into an unknown part of parenting. They still feel that responsibility but are unable to come to reason that you are old enough to at least voice your opinions with out taking them as an insult. Maybe since they are failing to understand you (if they are), it would help if you understood them a little better.

Sorry for the long post, however, I hope it helped at least a little.

[Cuathon]

yeah lol, i feel sorry for my parents. but that doesnt mean im gonna do whatever they want.
teacher? let her get her way on the small things. when bad stuff happens she will learn not to do that. focus on the important things that could really, really, hurt her in life. cause unless you have an aweosme relationship with your child, in about 2 years things are gonna suck much worse for you. ive noticed that mine and and my friends parents want control over everything. they mess with the small things and it pisses us off. then, we kinda let it go and anger builds up until on something big(which causes more problems) we go over the edge and just ignore them.

as for puni, i think most of the advice on what to do is pointless unless he tells us what he argues about his parents with. otherwise telling him exactly how ahrd moving out is and letting him decide whether the problem is abd enough to justify it is about the only value he'll get.

[Jeffery]

Lock her in a closet for 1 week with almost no food or water.

That'll Teach her.

[Cuathon]

and no outside communication. like a sensory deprivation chamber.

[Teacher]

yeah lol, i feel sorry for my parents. but that doesnt mean im gonna do whatever they want.
teacher? let her get her way on the small things. when bad stuff happens she will learn not to do that. focus on the important things that could really, really, hurt her in life. cause unless you have an aweosme relationship with your child, in about 2 years things are gonna suck much worse for you. ive noticed that mine and and my friends parents want control over everything. they mess with the small things and it pisses us off. then, we kinda let it go and anger builds up until on something big(which causes more problems) we go over the edge and just ignore them.


Ahh, here is the problem that I see parents facing with their children. Our mentality is not to let up too much, if you do they may continue to "push" until we say something. Then once we do, the kids become surprised and get pissed off. So I personally don't agree with your answer either. However, coming up with an answer for all parents and kids is impossible. Each family is different. For now, I think I'll stick with talking with my kids, being brutally honest about all of my past mistakes and hope they take my recommendations to heart.

On the other hand, I'm currently looking at different designs to build a house, and I have taken the same idea Jeffery provided into account. I nice spacious walk-in closet, with a latch on the outside of it and a
3"x12" wide hole to serve her dinner through. :bigsmile:

[R G]

Yea Cuathon if you are ever a parent you will realize that children young and old will always try to push the limits of what they can get away with.

I remember my first child when he was 2 years old...He would touch everything that he could get his hands on and just look at you to see how you would react. After you "popped" his hand enough and told him no no he finally understood his boundries....but from time to time he still wanted to push them.

[Jeffery]

Yea Cuathon if you are ever a parent you will realize that children young and old will always try to push the limits of what they can get away with.

I remember my first child when he was 2 years old...He would touch everything that he could get his hands on and just look at you to see how you would react. After you "popped" his hand enough and told him no no he finally understood his boundries....but from time to time he still wanted to push them.
If you cut off the hand on the first offense, there would have been no further testing.

[cs_zero]

or, he could just poke it with his little nub.

[R G]

If you cut off the hand on the first offense, there would have been no further testing.


Damn I wish I would have thought of that sooner...Jeffery you should write a parents handbook.:rolleyes:

[Cuathon]

hey thats what they do to thieves in china, or they did, maybe they got more civilized.

yeah i know about pushing RG i do it sometimes. usually i dont go too far.

[R G]

hey thats what they do to thieves in china, or they did, maybe they got more civilized.

yeah i know about pushing RG i do it sometimes. usually i dont go too far.

Actually I think they still do that in Saudi Arabia...to their credit I have hear crime is very low.

[Cuathon]

thats what they said about china.