Ogre Mauler

[bloodreign]

OGRE MAULER
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d34/realistromeo/ogremauler.jpg
:D
These civilized beasts live in the forrests, they claim it is their domain, they hate human encroachment into their territory and seem to have a NATURAL hatred for humans.They are a fierce bunch and can do more dammage to an aproaching enemy than a knight can in certain situations.

They can swing their crude battons with wild abandon not stopping until their opponent is left in a bloody heap, yes they are fierce, but seem to be a little bit slow when moving , that seems to sap their strength the most.

STATS
HP:44
POWER:19 (at a single adjacent tile)
ARMOR:18%
MOVEMENT:3
RECOVERY:1(FOR MOVING)(NO RECOVERY UPON ATTACKING)
BLOCKING:65%


TACTICS: It seems you can use the mauler in two ways:
#1 as a defensive threat, wait for your opponents to come to an adjacent tile, then swing away! (no recovery time)
#2 get right into the thick of things (beside opponents with turn recovery) and try to bludgeon your opponents into submision.

Here is a statistical breakdown of damage.
knight vs DT: knight aproaches dt and swings 68-18 now a 1 turn wait,attacks again-18 another 1 turn wait, attacks again -18another 1 turn wait.

So it takes 6 turns to deal 54 damage...with a 1 turn wait after.

Now with my ogre mauler
ogre mauler aproaches DT swings for 16 damage, now a 1 turn wait, ogre mauler swings for 16 damage (no wait) now ogre mauler swings again! (16) and again(16) with no wait for a TOTAL OF 64

So it takes 5 turns to deal 64 damage!

KNIGHT:54 in 6 turns
OGRE MAULER: 64 IN 5 TURNS
this is entirley hypothetical and does not factor in blocking, or the DT moving,
but for sheer acumulative damage the OM win's out by 10 attack points and has the ability to move3 spaces after that!

*edits in red*

[Toledo 13]

First off, neat picture, did you make that in paint?


But seriously... the wait is really weird... unless that's a special about him.... change it to the normal, example;

Move and attack: 3
Attack only: 2
Move only: 1

Also... you have no attack pattern listed.

[deleryn]

Playing with the recovery time like that is interesting. It's feasable, though, if part of the attack includes restoring one of its own recovery. It's really funny to think that ogres have an easier time swining their weapons than walking. ;)

And again, the art is awexome. But the spelling could use work, aach. I use www.dictionary.com. ;)

It might be a little too powerful as compared with the scout and assassin. Technically, it's the same class of units as the knight is instead of the infiltrators like the other two. The stats in general seem too high, but I bet lowering movement to 3 would change all that. That would mess with recovery and stuff, but it might be for the better. I dunno, I'll think it through and respond again later, maybe.

[bloodreign]

Hey DELERYN you gave me a good idea! perhaps for this unit, he only gets a 0turn recovery for attacking if it was a SUCCESSFUL attack! if it was blocked then it goes to +1

indeed a twist......

it is like some sort of BLOODLUST attack where if he hits and see's blood he can attack right after.....brilliant deleryn brilliant.

but i think i will keep him as is....for now.


if so i think the 4 movement might be warranted!

[Toledo 13]

Hey DELERYN you gave me a good idea! perhaps for this unit, he only gets a 0turn recovery for attacking if it was a SUCCESSFUL attack! if it was blocked then it goes to +1

indeed a twist......

it is like some sort of BLOODLUST attack where if he hits and see's blood he can attack right after.....brilliant deleryn brilliant.

but i think i will keep him as is....for now.

if so i think the 4 movement might be warranted!

So he gets rewarded for hitting a unit, so not only are you angry that you didn't get a block... but now his ogre mauler doesn't have wait... I think it should be the other way around, if it hits, he has wait, if not, he doesn't.

And the attack pattern you've indicated is he can attack any adjacent tile. Can he attack diagonal tiles? or is it like a knight?

Overall I like this unit, might be a little bit overpowered, and still needs some tweaking with the special wait ability.

[deleryn]

:confused:

I didn't think of anything. :)


If you wanted to make a "berzerker/barbarian/battlerage" dude, then he'd probably have less blocking than this ;)

[bloodreign]

This balancing act is soo hard to do, i wanted a character with STATS blended and similar to the other units, true it is a tad powerful but not by much!

Basicaly i added all the other character stats (SCOUT,KNIGHT,ASSASIN,BEAST RIDER)
divided it and gave the unit a unique twist.

Here is the original blend:
hp:42
power:19
armor:15%
blocking:65%
recovery: 1 .....>twist< (upon moving)
movement:(leans toward 4) but decided on 3

maybe that will suffice

now you see out of those 4

the ogre mauler comes 2nd in HP
tied for second in POWER
tied for second in ARMOR
3rd in blocking
tied for 4th in MOVEMENT
1ST in RECOVERY TIME!

a good blend perhaps too good

[Toledo 13]

This balancing act is soo hard to do, i wanted a character with STATS blended and similar to the other units, true it is a tad powerful but not by much!

Basicaly i added all the other character stats (SCOUT,KNIGHT,ASSASIN,BEAST RIDER)
divided it and gave the unit a unique twist.

Here is the original blend:
hp:42
power:19
armor:15%
blocking:65%
recovery: 1 .....>twist< (upon moving)
movement:(leans toward 4) but decided on 3

maybe that will suffice

now you see out of those 4

the ogre mauler comes 2nd in HP
tied for second in POWER
tied for second in ARMOR
3rd in blocking
tied for 4th in MOVEMENT
1ST in RECOVERY TIME!

a good blend perhaps too good

Wait what... :confused:
Is this the same unit... or a new one? Or what?

[bloodreign]

here is another alteration

OGRE INFILTRATOR:
hp:45
power:19 (one adjacent square. in all directions aka- diagonaly)
armor:18%
movement:4
recover: 2 for movement! none for attack.

so the beast could rush in swing once, wait, wait, swing, swing ,swing,

[bloodreign]

toledo it's a WIP
WORK IN PROGRESS

it's evolving MUHAHAHHAHAHHH!:bad:

[Toledo 13]

Please don't double post... and it's better to just edit the original.

[Pheonix]

OGRE MAULER


STATS
HP:44
POWER:19 (at a single adjacent tile)
ARMOR:18%
MOVEMENT:3
RECOVERY:1(FOR MOVING)(NO RECOVERY UPON ATTACKING)
BLOCKING:65%


TACTICS: It seems you can use the mauler in two ways:
#1 as a defensive threat, wait for your opponents to come to an adjacent tile, then swing away! (no recovery time)
#2 get right into the thick of things (beside opponents with turn recovery) and try to bludgeon your opponents into submision.

Here is a statistical breakdown of damage.
knight vs DT: knight aproaches dt and swings 68-18 now a 1 turn wait,attacks again-18 another 1 turn wait, attacks again -18another 1 turn wait.

So it takes 6 turns to deal 54 damage...with a 1 turn wait after.

Now with my ogre mauler
ogre mauler aproaches DT swings for 16 damage, now a 1 turn wait, ogre mauler swings for 16 damage (no wait) now ogre mauler swings again! (16) and again(16) with no wait for a TOTAL OF 64

So it takes 5 turns to deal 64 damage!

KNIGHT:54 in 6 turns
OGRE MAULER: 64 IN 5 TURNS
this is entirley hypothetical and does not factor in blocking, or the DT moving,
but for sheer acumulative damage the OM win's out by 10 attack points and has the ability to move 4 spaces after that!
*edits in red*

I don't know if you've edited those stats since, but the way I see that now it's crazy powerful. No wait turns on anything just isn't right. You hit a side shot on something, next turn back attack, and again, and again, 19 power every turn automatically is, no. Toledo (think it was you) said something about him missing and that gives him no wait, that's much better. But no wait regardless after attacking? And you think this unit is only a little overpowered? Put in the high block, quite good armor, and decent hp...who needs knights? No way I'd rather use a knight than him, and any unit that completly overshadows the knight is just wrong. Your example shows that as he does more damage in less turns than the knight....I'm apparently either quite wrong about that kind of power or nobody else read it that way.
Maybe it's also because these are new stats and prior comments had other stats.

[deleryn]

The example with the dragon was if the dragon were to sit there and let either unit wail on it. I was worse before, with 4 movement. It isn't really overpowered because it has to be in knight range (I'm assuming) which is difficult without moving every turn.

Now, in an example where the dragon does damage too, I'm fairly certain that it would win by virtue of its ranged attack. The dragon has better movement and range, so it should usually go first, but we'll start with the Ogre Mauler moving first just to see what happens.

I'll add the % armor to both units' hitpoints to make things easier. No blocking (which favors the DT anyways), the dragon can take about 79 power due to its armor. OM = 52. Blue has OM, Red has DT.

1st turn blue: move, attack DT - 19 = 60
1st turn red: attack, moveOM - 28 = 24
2nd turn blue: recover
2nd turn red: recover
3rd turn blue: move, attack DT - 19 = 41
3rd turn red: recover
4th turn blue: recover
4th turn red: recover
5th turn blue: attack DT - 19 = 22
5th turn red: attack OM - 28 = -2

Edit: I just noticed that this example was as if the Ogre Mauler moved 4 squares/turn. If not, it has to waste a turn moving (like the scout) before another attack is made. This would mean that the unit only gets 2 attacks against the Dragon Tyrant.

Supposedly, Knights have a chance of beating Dragon Tyrants. Ogre Maulers don't. Even against an opponent who recovers for 3 turns, the Ogre Mauler doesn't really have an advantage if it moves first. In my mind, this makes it a tactical unit. Adding other units to the mix makes things interesting.

The worst thing that could happen is that pyromancers get easier to kill, as if knights didn't already do that well enough. Scouts get attacked the same number of times as if a knight did it.

Perhaps I don't like it so much because it would be a great addition to the game as much as it made me think of the game in a new way. :)

[shatterstar]

its tactical and its an interesting way to play with recovery so i commend that.

i do not like it for one simple reason, it hurts teamplay. recovery ensures that you cant just wale on a target with the same unit or 2 constantly. a rush for example has to coordinate and use the mudd, scouts, drag and whoever else; not just 'port a mudd and keep quaking, then move a scout in and keep sniping.

it creates tactics, but not in a good way.

[deleryn]

its tactical and its an interesting way to play with recovery so i commend that.

i do not like it for one simple reason, it hurts teamplay. recovery ensures that you cant just wale on a target with the same unit or 2 constantly. a rush for example has to coordinate and use the mudd, scouts, drag and whoever else; not just 'port a mudd and keep quaking, then move a scout in and keep sniping.

it creates tactics, but not in a good way.

Did you even read my post? This isn't one of those 0-recovery units that you can respond to stereotypically. :mad:

If you read all of his post, then you'd know that it gets 1 turn recovery when it moves. Only a newbie or a moron would waltz his units next to this with their backs facing toward it so it can attack every turn.

Think of what happens when you attack with your knights. You generally move sometime, right? Of course; it's free to move with knights and you can make minor tactical adjustments by moving before or after your attack. The Ogre Mauler gets penalized for this. It uses tactics to draw enemies toward it and make them face in directions that enemies wouldn't generally face. Regardless of the fact that it doesn't need to recover after attacking one turn, a smart player using it probably wouldn't attack with it every turn anyways because sound tactical reasoning provides better alternatives.

And it is a "team player" because it can keep away annoying mages and dragons and Golem Ambushers away from your weak units better than any other single unit. It would ward away other units too with a good deal of damage should they attack weaker ones 2 spaces away. In any good game, I'd guarantee you'll find yourself actually using your scouts or cleric more than it anyways. But how often does the average grey actually use his lightning ward?

Your offensive example really doesn't work at all when the player on defense can make adjustments for as close to free as things get on TAO. Because of the movement problems, it would be about as bad as a knight that attacks every turn unless you get your scout caught between it and your cleric (which would be hard because it would move down there as fast as a pyromancer of witch would).

[shatterstar]

no i hardly read your post, i just brushed through in case i was going to be repeating what you might have said. i do that to all posts till i get my thoughts in so that theres no subliminal influence. i then generally read it all in detail and edit/repost.

you bring up some good points. lemme respond:

If you read all of his post, then you'd know that it gets 1 turn recovery when it moves. Only a newbie or a moron would waltz his units next to this with their backs facing toward it so it can attack every turn.

the new blocking system rewards you fro every strike you make, blocked or not. if you hit, great. if you dont, you drain blocking and make the unit vulnerable. but other than that, yes good point. but then,

Think of what happens when you attack with your knights. You generally move sometime, right? Of course; it's free to move with knights and you can make minor tactical adjustments by moving before or after your attack. The Ogre Mauler gets penalized for this. It uses tactics to draw enemies toward it and make them face in directions that enemies wouldn't generally face. Regardless of the fact that it doesn't need to recover after attacking one turn, a smart player using it probably wouldn't attack with it every turn anyways because sound tactical reasoning provides better alternatives.

And it is a "team player" because it can keep away annoying mages and dragons and Golem Ambushers away from your weak units better than any other single unit. It would ward away other units too with a good deal of damage should they attack weaker ones 2 spaces away. In any good game, I'd guarantee you'll find yourself actually using your scouts or cleric more than it anyways. But how often does the average grey actually use his lightning ward?
i dont really agree. 1-on-1 against any unit its almost as rapid a hitter a hitter as 2 units. it can move towards a busher, hit, recover, hit and hit again all while the 'busher is still recovering. 57 damage. against a pyro/DSM/DMW it can do the same:
pyro move sin range and attacks: 3 recov.
OM moves in attacks from front: hits. 19 damage. pyro at 11.
heal. pyro and 23. pyro - 2 recov.
OM recovers.
soemthign happens. sun rises. pyro on 1 recov.
OM attacks. blcoked.
something happens. weed is made legal. pyro on 0 recov.
OM attacks. hits. pyro on 4.
you can change the block to a hit and the last hit to a recovery for the OM and get the same thing.

against mages, berz, DT and golems its nearly as powerful if not more powerful than a knight when its attacking from the front. from the side or the back it gets even more powerful. if it doesnt move first, it can attack and then move and attack very next turn. i agree that there will be better options than just using it alone especially if you're skirmishing on multipe fronts, but my points are a) its way too powerful with that power and potential rate of attack and b) to be used to full effectiveness and not be another std-issue melee unit it has to forsake teamplay. i mean, if you're not going to attack repeatedly with it, whcih is the point of the unit, how is it worth a spot on the field? and if you're going to keep on attacking with this, how will it work in tandem with the rest of the army?

i do agree that the threat of what it can do makes it a good deterrent.

[bloodreign]

Thanks for all your input guys. Some of you explain my unit better than myself!

But here is another line of reasoning

THESE ARE THE COMBINATIONS TO KILL THE OM

1 DT SHOT 1 KNIGHT HIT (44-22-18=4 ) very feasably can be killed here.
with a cleric heal it's hp go up to 16 (it still can be killed by anything excluding the scout and a pyromancer) any attack by a pyro or scout would leave it sitting at 1-3 hp

if i reduced it's HP by just one to 43 the scout could peg it off after the DT and knight got to it (even after the cleric heal)

"DRUMROLL PLEASE"
This is my favorite scenario of all, A BEAST RIDER (BR) OWNS the OGRE MAULER (OM) Here goes

BR approaches OM one space away and hits for 14 damage (1 turn wait)
OM approaches and hits BR for 16 damage (1 turn wait for moving)
BR WAITS
OM WAITS
BR attacks OM (-14) and moves 4 spaces away
OM moves toward BR 3 spaces (1 turn recovery)
BR waits
OM waits
BR attacks (-14) and moves 3 spaces back
OM moves 3 spaces toward BR
BR WAITS
OM WAITS
BR attacks OM for last time (-14) and OM fails miserably to PWN the lowly BR.

Not as nasty of a beast, and since it is a bit BEEFY i would say only 1 allowed on field.

[Cross Punisher]

I actually really like the tactics behind the recovery setup you got going bloodreign :)

[Pheonix]

Did I just read one part wrong?

If it moves, it gets recovery. If it attacks it does not. I know I have that part straight.
If it moves AND attacks, does it get recovery? I was under the impression it did NOT. And that makes a huge difference in the unit. In your example Del, I noticed this when you did not have the OM attacking every turn.

[deleryn]

Did I just read one part wrong?

If it moves, it gets recovery. If it attacks it does not. I know I have that part straight.
If it moves AND attacks, does it get recovery? I was under the impression it did NOT. And that makes a huge difference in the unit. In your example Del, I noticed this when you did not have the OM attacking every turn.

It said 0 for attack and 1 for move, so I figured add 'em together.