The Search For The Best Grey Form

[Forest_Archer]

Okay, so wew had one for gold accounts, but how about greys? I've recently explored grey formations with my Banff account, Acidic (currently rated 955. woot.), and things have been working well.

This is my grey account rush. Yes, I know, you probably think you're wise bringing up that FryLock used to rush too. Now it's my turn.

http://img309.imageshack.us/img309/9711/picture2dc8.png (http://imageshack.us)

I beat Mulato (1325 grey) and JUGGERNAUT (1401 grey) on Banff with that form. And it's versatile because they were on different sides.
_________________________________________________

Here is my grey turtle. I've beaten quite a few people with it, including Magician (1560ish on GL, I think).

http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/3550/picture3tc1.png (http://imageshack.us)

What are your formations, guys? This is a grey strategy/formation thread. :)

List of Mandatory Grey Units


• Atleast 2 knights
• Atleast 1 scout
• Atleast 1 cleric

[Cuathon]

the first one is super l-wardable.
i dont see how anyone lost to it.
the turtle is average.

and magician is 1560 on GL now.

[shatterstar]

http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/2148/greysp2.jpg

this is what i use almost consistently now. ive hit about 1180 on this. i dont play that seriously. i'm yet to find a major weakness, other than the opening near the edge. all my losses are because i lack skill, never on formation. i've lost opp-sides, at which i suck to juggernaut but beaten him with a spread on my other accnt.

f_a: both yr forms are very LW'able with this.

[Epic warriors]

the turtle isnt bad, could work quite well, i dunno about the rush tho, like cuathon said, LW would hurt, but if u get lucky with LW position, it could be good.

[Forest_Archer]

In both games, their LW was used frequently. However, the chanty helped me in both games, but with Mulato, I didn't even really need it.

[shatterstar]

http://img47.imageshack.us/img47/6518/antiturtzg4.jpg

this is a specialist anti-turtle form i made a long while ago. combines elements of a mage bomb with high flanking speed. it can hold its own against a spread as well but it does struggle against a rush if you go 2nd and get Lw'ed.

[solingro]

Any form where you can lose a unit to start off with can't be that good, and definitely not the best.

[Forest_Archer]

Then why was I able to beat two 1300-1400 greys with it? I'm 2-0 with that form.

[solingro]

Mulato I heard...well let's just say he shouldn't be 1300. And were you fortunate enough to not be zapped first turn against Juggernaut? Plus 2-0 isn't really convincing of a number :p.

[Forest_Archer]

Nope, Juggernaut zapped me first turn.

[Zander]

look at all those formations with pyromancers:rolleyes: I have the best grey form(turtle), and that's all there is to it, anyone who wishes to challenge that statement may meet me in Great Lakes.

[Cuathon]

he must be rusty. play me grey somtime on Rev with those and i will use my normal grey turtle.

[Forest_Archer]

I'm now 4-0. Just beat a couple 900's.

[plusminus]

I'll have to play vs. these sometimes. The rush looks... not good. LW will either zap a pyro/witch or the scout 1st turn. I like the turtle, though.

[Soda]

Grey rushes are useless. I haven't played one good one yet. Centre turtles are probably the best at rushing, as they can easily flank.

[Cliche]

Nope, Juggernaut zapped me first turn.


Juggernaut is very rusty. I've beat him on Banff in a grey game by 6-7.

Also, Magician isn't a grey player. Don't brag about beating him. :rolleyes:

[imback]

My grey setup:
http://img224.imageshack.us/img224/4375/formws7.th.png (http://img224.imageshack.us/my.php?image=formws7.png)

I can post a write up about how to use it if anyone's interested.

[~SlayeR~]

I will give them ago, maybe we might meet in the grey tourney and you can use it then... :rolleyes:

[Zander]

Shut up Stiff.You suck at grey.and life...oooh burn =p
lol, no actually I think i've only played you once and it was gold and...and i lost:( ....but...yeah, you're always on so i don't need to set a time, i have to go to some stupid thing at some stupid campgrounds today and meet some friends of someone who's not related to me, when I get back, you best have your grey acc ready for me, kay?;)

I challenge you to use one of those forms :)

[zzzaacckk]

F_A I would love a crack at that rush of yours. I developed a form that is almost identical to bottles form independantly from him before he posted it... that is essentially what I use.

[~SlayeR~]

And i owned it opp sides with 8 units by 6... If thats the set you used... Lol. :rolleyes:

[BaxVarlet]

I'd be happy to smack some grey sense into the likes of yous guys.

[WaCk-HeAd]

*yawn*

Again the overrated importance of a grey setup is being discussed. Practically every grey turtle'ish setup is good setup.

Grey games depend so much less on formation than gold games.

Grey rushes are useless because of the lack of range and power of the grey units.

[*TBS*_H&]

http://imageigloo.com/images/226908-19-2006_09-33-22.jpg

[~SlayeR~]

Not good? O_o

[TACTOHOLIC]

This is my anti-turtle perfect form, as all forms it has its weakness... Centered LW forms and frontline rushes. It works perfect for turtles though ;)


http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/2964/myform2vg4.jpg

[phoenixofflames]

Even if you dont use a chanty or LW, which i always use both of, i believe BWs are important. grey games NEED BWS

[Forest_Archer]

Barrier Wards are overrated. By the way, my form is now 6-0, I think.

I just owned nickm55 (used to be 1500+, but got deleted. Now he's almost 1300 on banff). His gold turtle was beat by my grey rush. And I still had about eh, 5-6 units left.

[phoenixofflames]

F_a, could you go to rev? u use your grey rush, i'll turtle. dont tell me which side your on, i dont want an unfair advantage. this isnt to prove you wrong, but rather i would like to see how that thing is any good.

[Forest_Archer]

I'm there.

[shatterstar]

This is my anti-turtle perfect form, as all forms it has its weakness... Centered LW forms and frontline rushes. It works perfect for turtles though ;)


http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/2964/myform2vg4.jpg

its conceptually near-identical to my anti-turtle form. mage heavy with high-flanking speed+ chanty backup.

Even if you dont use a chanty or LW, which i always use both of, i believe BWs are important. grey games NEED BWS

not if you rush. you wont have time to use it. at best it would be limited to witch protection. in my turt i use the BW constantly, changing between the pyro, witch, scout, chanty, LW and even my incomptetent knights. a rush moves around too much for that much BW use.

edit: this is a pretty formidable rush:
http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/2028/noobrush7dn.jpg
you just need to be wrong in the head to use it well.

[phoenixofflames]

i see you are in a game, sorry i had to eat lunch. when you are done ill play you, ill set my grey turtle up.

[Forest_Archer]

shatter, your rush is pure noob.

[WaCk-HeAd]

Barrier Wards are overrated.

:eek:

:confused:

*remembers to which level of greys he's talking to*

:)

[Cuathon]

lol wack :)

[OFFLINE]

http://img237.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pryochantysetrf5.jpg this is mine

[Forest_Archer]

It's not very versatile, OFFLINE, because yours is just a cornered turtle. Nothing really special.

[Maestro3]

i like the formation you get when you start xD

but seriously i just randomly place them and get lucky =)

[stryker]

http://img86.imageshack.us/img86/3112/droplessrushcn0.jpg

I've been using this form recently and i like it for the most part. It could be tweaked.

[Forest_Archer]

12-0.

[Match Strike]

I've been messing around with grey rushes myself and have found a few things.

1) The ideal spot (IMO, of course) for a rushing scout is one space behind the front line in the dead center. From this position it is relatively protected, esepecially if its flanks are covered, and can be extremely threatening to cornered forms, as it can hit any square on the board in one move.

2) I would suggest using only one ward. You're going to want at least one pyro, and probably two. I think wards take priotirty over enchantress. Both barrier ward and lightning ward can help offense and defense in different ways, but by using both you sacrifice too many spots for mages.

3) USE ASSASSIN. Caps because I wanted to stress the point, obviously. Assassin is the best infiltrator you have, better than knights because it can move quicker. Although of course you should use three knights. Try not to sacrifice her just for a single hit, and don't send her in 1st. Once you stretch a defense into awkward and elongated positions with mages and scout/knight, shoot her into a turtle to take out their weak points (cleric, chant?).

I know we're not talking about rushes in particular, but turtles have basically been analyzed to pieces already.

[Forest_Archer]

Thanks for the advice, match.

[Match Strike]

Thanks for the advice, match.

Well, I'm by no means an expert on grey rushes. On the other hand, there probably are no experts, as it's such a rare style.

What is a grey rush then? KBHolen1 uses grey rushes, but his, from what I've seen, contain the basic turtle units, only centered and aggressively positioned. I don't think he even uses pyros, though I've never played a grey game with him.

LoneleyTylenol, another prominent grey rusher, uses a drastically different style, favoring spreads that rely heavily on the tactical application of mage power. I think he'd let go of his wards before the pyromancers. I posted one of his forms somewhere once, I'll see if I can dig it up later.

LT was actually the one who first introduced me to grey rushes as a serious style. In some thread quite a while back, I challeged him to a game in which I would use a traditional enchantress turtle, and he one of his rushes. if I recall correctly, we dc'd from rev late in the game, and it was about dead even. In a game quite a bit later, he used the same form on me, and I countered it well, beating him, although it was by no means easy.

After that I really started playing around with rushes, center forms, turtles with pyros, etc...

However, I also think of myself as quite a good turtler (especially same-side, but that's another story).

So then, the perfect(ly balanced) grey form. Let's first go over units; what should we include?

Knights: Three, obviously. No debate there, I hope

Scout: Of course. That's four unit slots full. Six to go.

Cleric: I don't know if we can include drops, I'll assume not, and even if we could, I would lean towards one anyways. So that's 5 slots.

Lightning Ward: This is an interesting one. Almost all grey forms have one, but I have certain biases against it. I'll often ditch it for a pyro or something only to be reminded of its power in my next game and come running back to it. I'll lean towards yes, but I still don't think it's for sure.

Pro- Very high power
Pro- High health/armor/blocking (hard to kill)

Con- Immobile
Con- Very high recovery
Con- Does not to be destroyed in order for opponent to win.

Lightning Wards are great, no doubt. If anything in TAO says "back off" it's a LW with no recovery at full health. But those "cons" are still worrying. Let's come back to this one.

Assassin: In my opinion, a great unit. It's the best infiltrator available to greys, as I said in a previous post, and also it has defensive capabilities. it's the best replacement for a knight in a wall, because of its high blocking. This is another one I'd lean towards yes on, but once again, time for pros and cons.

Pro- High movement
Pro- Low Recovery
Pro- High Blocking, decent armor
Pro- Hits more than one unit (This can actually be a con, as anyone trying to use it as a defender knows, but I still think it's more of an asset than a drawback).
Pro- Potentially highest damage in the game. Mostly used as a threat.

Con- Low health
Con- No range, which is bad for an infiltrator

The pros seem to weigh out the cons by a hefty majority, but the cons, especially the low health, are not to be sneezed at. Low health can be fine, but the way it's best used, assassinw ill be sent into a group of enemy units to dispatch low health/blocking targets. It needs to be able to survive long enough to do that, and maybe even get out alive. Because of that, many prefer to just send in a knight.

I would say a hesitant yes to inclusion in our formation. So that's at least 6, maybe 7.

Barrier Ward: Its use is undeniable, but it has drawbacks.

Pro- Very useful spell. Can render nearly invulnerable a friendly unit
Pro- Long range of 6
Pro- Decent recovery time.
Pro- 100% blocking

Con- Low health, no armor, no blocking when focused.
Con- immmobile
Con- needs to be protected, to some degree.
Con- Does not need to be killed.

I would put this with Lightning Ward. Again I'm leaning towards yes, especially if our "Perfectly balanced form" is mage heavy, as mages work well with Barrier, or if we include an Enchantress. That's 8 slots full, although 2 of 8 are iffy as of yet.

Witch: Almost certainly a yes. It's low health is a problem, sure, but it is just so usefull, I don't feel the need to expand. 9 units used.

Enchantress: Ah, enchantress, if there was ever a unit I have had a love-hate relationship with, it is this one.

Pro- Massively powerful focus spell, if maintained.
Pro- Only paralyzation available to greys.

Con- Low health, no blocking, no armor
Con- High recovery
Con- Requires focus

Many have stopped using enchantress, although it remains popular. The arguement is that all good players basically know how to counter it pretty well. I agree, although, if they know how to counter it, they still HAVE to counter it. It stops, late in the game, a lone knight, scout, or anything, from taking your cleric. It requires an offense to be more committed, and if you are at the same time applying pressure on their cleric, this can be hard for them to pull off. Nevertheless, I don't know that that is enough to warrant its inculsion in our perfect form. Disagree if you want, but I don't feel comfortable putting in a unit that simply is not flexible. You can use any damage dealing unit defensively, but you can't expect to be able to rush with enchantress.:rolleyes: I'm leaning towards a big, fat, cautious NO

Pyromancer: But then there's only one other unit we could put in for enchantress, and we have two of them. I beleive I've been over nearly every pro and con of Pyros in my FAQ review in general Strategy. Run a search for it if you want to learn how great a unit Pyros can be.

I like Pyros because of their flexibility, and flexibility is a must for our perfect form. they have low damage, but the second most useful attack pattern in the grey game, after scout. that's not an opinion, that's fact. I would lean towards one of these over enchantress, and maybe even include two, dropping one of our wards.

But for now I would say our units are as follows:

Knights (3)
Scout (1)
Cleric (1)
Lightning ward (1)
Assassin (1)
Barrier Ward (1)
Witch (1)
Pyromancer (1)

Look forward to my next installment, when I get around to it: Formation placement! centered, spread, cornered, or other?

[Soda]

Those are the units I use. :)

[phoenixofflames]

i use chanty, no pyro. its just preference, but when u see chanty freezing 2 knights an assassin and has no wait, the satisfaction is unimaginable :)

[Match Strike]

I'm not saying it's not useful, but is it right in a balanced form?

[phoenixofflames]

Well that also depends on how you play! balanced for me and balanced for you could be totally different!

[steve12]

It's very tricky to use. For instance, the enemy probably would not expect you to freeze your own units, but if they have two melee threats in your base, you could freeze them along with some of your units. It acts as a jail, and it only proves useful if given enough space, but is protected. I prefer to use one next to my cleric, but that's just preference.

[Forest_Archer]

Okay, guys, I just got a witch drop, and I know I'm gonna use it. I switched out a chanty for it. What would you guys do?

[phoenixofflames]

if you are using it in your turtle, take out assassin or...against my will..chanty.

if you are rushing with it, take out a pyro.

[marklar2]

Well if we're trying to find "The Best Grey Form," I honestly don't believe that a grey rush will be it.

[phoenixofflames]

neither do i but you never know. we need to discuss all posibilities.

[Forest_Archer]

Well if we're trying to find "The Best Grey Form," I honestly don't believe that a grey rush will be it.

I honestly don't believe that you can beat it.

And phoenix, I took out a chanty because I still need firepower, if not more.

[stryker]

The way i rush is by throwing knights and Assassin at the other players ranged units. (primarily scout). I'm not stupid about it, but sometimes I will go for risky blocks if taking out the scout is at hand. This way i usually end up with my cleric, bw, lw, chanty, and one other piece vs. his three knights. With the barrier ward+chanty combo this is a preferable position in my eyes. I don't like subbing out wards or my enchantress for pyros. In the GREY game i consider them the weakest unit.

[marklar2]

I'll take you up on that offer Forest. :)

[Forest_Archer]

What server do you play on?

[phoenixofflames]

he plays GL. but i think i was winning vrs u wen i d/c F_a..

[Forest_Archer]

I'll rematch you sometime, and I can assure you... you weren't winning. :happy:

[marklar2]

You'll either find me on Mobius1 in GL, marklar2 in army, or sometimes on Pedro in Rev.

[zzzaacckk]

if it helps, I was just on legends and ran into a really effective grey rush... I bet it but it was very good. 2 knights and a witch on 1 front corner,cleric in both corners, BR and scout 1 left and 1 right of center front, and 1 knight, witch and mud on other front side.

[Match Strike]

Well that also depends on how you play! balanced for me and balanced for you could be totally different!

No, because the premise of a perfectly balanced form is one that has no major starting disadvantages against other styles. As such it needs to be versatile.

[Match Strike]

The way i rush is by throwing knights and Assassin at the other players ranged units. (primarily scout). I'm not stupid about it, but sometimes I will go for risky blocks if taking out the scout is at hand. This way i usually end up with my cleric, bw, lw, chanty, and one other piece vs. his three knights. With the barrier ward+chanty combo this is a preferable position in my eyes. I don't like subbing out wards or my enchantress for pyros. In the GREY game i consider them the weakest unit.

That's basic enchantress strategy. What I'm saying is that it's unreliable. What if they hide their scout in a corner and you can't kill it? What if they rush you and kill your enchantress?

[Forest_Archer]

Well if we're trying to find "The Best Grey Form," I honestly don't believe that a grey rush will be it.

My rush is now 13-0. I beat this guy on Rev.

[marklar2]

Yeah sure rub it in. >.< Good game, but I still don't think it will be a rush. ;)

[Rock Hard]

I liked the frey turtle but i dont think the rush is gona work

[Forest_Archer]

Yeah sure rub it in. >.< Good game, but I still don't think it will be a rush. ;)

Hey, I proved ya wrong, I'm not rubbin' it in! ;)

[marklar2]

Nah I said I could beat it, I never said I would do it 100% of the time. :)

[Calon]

I think that 4 pyro spread could give my form quite a hassle... I've been up against that type of form before, but not by a skilled player.

The hardest games I've had were breaking a good chanter/BW team apart.

I've had some good rushes thrown against me but I havent really seen any worth mentioning. If they are too spread out they can't hurt me much.

If I were to play a tourny with a bunch of greys I knew were good I might do some things different, such as tighten up my right flank, switch a chanty for a pyro or plug up my left side wall a bit better.

My form, as it stands, is adaptable - this means its not likely the best form in any one category. It seems very defensive but I can turn it into a rush quite quickly... it just takes turns... turns which I'm guaging my opponents skill level and looking for him to get impatient and open up some holes.

The downsides are:
-light on mages, I have to be prepared for the fact that the majority of my damage is blockable.
-Once I'm engaged to the right, my left side is someone vulnerable to scout suicide.
-Enchanters die too easy and are targeted early in good games.

Upsides:
-Enchanters die too easy and are targeted early in good games; I use her to set traps in this instances - if the fates allow and I catch it.
-Left side is fairly invulnerable to a melee rush with the knight drop.
-No Witch burn on the cleric.
-No first turn LW kills or hits to my scout.
-No Direct line of sight to anyone with less than 60% blocking.

I have given many good "how to respect the enchanter" lessons with this form.

Remember... versitality.

http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/8780/untitledsh5.jpg

[Zander]

if i could have any number of any units(grey) that i wanted, I'd still use this form
http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/8521/greyzx2.jpg
the only arguement i've heard to say this is a bad form is that the cleric could be "witched".It can't on first turn,and if they have one in range to do it second turn i can easily move up a knight to fill in the block

[powza]

Chanty seems quite open, but I guess you got BW backup.

[gigolojlo gl]

You are looking at the best grey >.<. No I am not the best, but I am pretty damn good I would say :p.

[Morning Star]

This form would "never" be used if the +1 wait turn wasn't implemented, that is 1 reason that I truly support it. Anyhow this is my favorite set for many reasons. Most people will see this and instantly think n00b, but as the game progresses they understand their mistake. The one thing that this set does have issues with is a one sided bomb, but i have managed on numerous occasions to overcome those obstacles. Analyze away:

Morning Star Grey Form (http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y170/mjs1107f/8g.jpg)

[powza]

I would like to play vs you some time MS

[Soda]

MS sucks at grey.
EDIT: I meant Match Strike, but you fall under the category too. :)

[Morning Star]

Is it because my set is so uber :)

Sucks? O you mean in a good way :p

[dab00z]

FA, I'd like to play your rush some time. If you can beat me with it I will be impressed.

[Jax'D]

My grey set. Dropless grey turt, I always use this and it works for me pretty much all the time.

http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/3277/jaxgreysetun0.png

[mantis33]

Well, I went gold about 1 week after starting this game and only played about 15 grey games total. So as you can imagine, I probably sucked back then. But after playing all these gold games, I naturally got used to using the units and my all-around TAO skills and now I think I am a formidable grey. This is imag's set that he showed me when we were teamed in some tourney and I had to play grey. I never got to try it out before I played Slayer and obviously he whooped me. But then after that I decided to play some more grey games just to see how it was, since I had only played like 15 games in my life. I played about 20 more games with this set against just random people on GL and Army (the highest stats being 1250+) and I won every single one of them.

Here's the set:

http://img161.imageshack.us/img161/3993/greysetyp3.th.png (http://img161.imageshack.us/my.php?image=greysetyp3.png)

[Forest_Archer]

mantis, the witch looks really useless in your form. I think it was your skill that won those games.

[Tetraodon]

Well, firsts of all, i think that the rush wouldn't work that well, since a lightning ward can easily knock you off guard. I like the turtle though, it's hard to try getting through to the sides and attack the units in the back.

Thanks for posting this thread ^^

[Match Strike]

I think that 4 pyro spread could give my form quite a hassle... I've been up against that type of form before, but not by a skilled player. They can be beastly, but three often works better than four- with room for a barrier ward.

The hardest games I've had were breaking a good chanter/BW team apart.
I think scouts on the wall are better than center scouts at targeting enchantress in opp. side games, but both have advantages.
I've had some good rushes thrown against me but I havent really seen any worth mentioning. If they are too spread out they can't hurt me much.
That's where I like your form. I think it could mold itself into a variety of defensive positions quite easily.

If I were to play a tourny with a bunch of greys I knew were good I might do some things different, such as tighten up my right flank, switch a chanty for a pyro or plug up my left side wall a bit better.

My form, as it stands, is adaptable - this means its not likely the best form in any one category. It seems very defensive but I can turn it into a rush quite quickly... it just takes turns... turns which I'm guaging my opponents skill level and looking for him to get impatient and open up some holes.
I think a pyro would work well. You could use it defensively, to shoot at flankers from behind your knights which again, could collapse quite easily to provide protection for cleric.
The downsides are:
-light on mages, I have to be prepared for the fact that the majority of my damage is blockable.
-Once I'm engaged to the right, my left side is someone vulnerable to scout suicide.
-Enchanters die too easy and are targeted early in good games.
I think your left side is vulnerable already.
Upsides:
-Enchanters die too easy and are targeted early in good games; I use her to set traps in this instances - if the fates allow and I catch it.
-Left side is fairly invulnerable to a melee rush with the knight drop.
-No Witch burn on the cleric.
-No first turn LW kills or hits to my scout.
-No Direct line of sight to anyone with less than 60% blocking.
I don't quite understand the first one... how is that an upside?:huh:
Also, hate to burst your bubble, but there are ten places a scout can get a hit on cleric in its first turn. Most of them are on that left side-- I wall scout followed up by mages/assassin could give you a major headache. There are also to places for a scout to hit your cleric from the right side of the lightning ward. Something placed up two and right one of the cleric would prevent one (a pyro, perhaps?) and the other could be solved by moving forward the knight nearest lightning ward. I still worry about the left side though.
I have given many good "how to respect the enchanter" lessons with this form.
I do worry that enchantress may not be useful that far "inside" the form, although I suspect things get more spread out later on, when she is more valuable.
Remember... versitality.
I think Pyros are more versatile than enchantress :):)
http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/8780/untitledsh5.jpg

[Forest_Archer]

My rush is still undefeated. It has to be atleast like 20-0 now.

[Geoffrey]

F_A, if i see you on rev i will gladly play your grey rush vs my grey turt. :)

[deleryn]

default pwns all.

'nuff said.

[Syko99]

i have a question sence bottle use to be one of the greatest players ever what did his grey set look like?

[Geoffrey]

Bot is the best grey...

His Set

http://img47.exs.cx/img47/3320/greyform5wj.jpg

[Syko99]

thanks but zack gave it to me like 1 min before u posted that :P

[Match Strike]

Bot is the best grey...

His Set

http://img47.exs.cx/img47/3320/greyform5wj.jpg

No, as turtle play has become more refined since he wrote his guide, there are certain flaws in his formation.

For one, enchantress becaomes dead weight that far inside the form, in most games. Also, while some like it, that barrier ward position is makes it *almost* impossible to use the ward for offensive purposes, although it is great for defense.

[some1udontknow]

Freaking Match, i wa trying to post in every secion, and s/s it. You just ruined it.

[Match Strike]

Freaking Match, i wa trying to post in every secion, and s/s it. You just ruined it.

Umm... sorry...?

[some1udontknow]

:p

I gave up already.

[Geoffrey]

Match, even though his set may have flaw's in it, he is still most likely the best grey.

[Forest_Archer]

Match, even though his set may have flaw's in it, he is still most likely the best grey.

I hate it when people say "omfg he iZ t3h best" because maybe he isn't. Ever think of that? He's human. Have you ever even played him?

[Syko99]

i like bottles set alot better if u switch the chanty and bw i dont know if it makes it ne better but i like it and....

alot of ppl say that u should use dropless sets but dont drops make the set better?

[bludhoundz]

I hate it when people say "omfg he iZ t3h best" because maybe he isn't. Ever think of that? He's human. Have you ever even played him?
The question is.. have you ever played him? (grey)

[Forest_Archer]

Nope. Never said I did. And he's amazing at turtle. I have like a 1-5 record with him.

[Anarchy_United]

My bets on 10 witches.

[Syko99]

ok should u use dropless sets or sets with drops? alot of ppl tell me to do dropless but i dont know

[solingro]

dropless because it's how you play in tournies. Play with drops just to get a feel for different types of sets, strengths and weaknesses. But I'd play mostly with dropless sets to get better.

[Forest_Archer]

<-- Just choobed up Anarchy_United with it.

[Syko99]

with ur rush thats like 21-0 now?

[Match Strike]

Match, even though his set may have flaw's in it, he is still most likely the best grey.

OK, but this isn't a "who is the best player?" thread, it's "The search for the best grey form." I'm saying that that form is NOT going to be the best.

[Forest_Archer]

with ur rush thats like 21-0 now?

Yeah, but I'm sure someone's gonna beat it soon.

[Realist]

Forest Archer. Rev. Now.

[Geoffrey]

Did you play him Real, Forest i played Bot long long long time ago and i got beat just.

All i can say to this topic is...Grey sets doesnt really matter, its how much skill the person who uses has. Some people may think one sets is the Best grey form others will no thing the same thing. There is no best grey form, and i seriously doubt there ever will.

[monkus]

Anarchy beat me to it. I was gunna come on and just slap down my GL gray form. Well, I can do it anyway.

http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/7001/witchfz0.jpg

I altered it slightly and beat 10 pyros with it too, fyi. I'm not amazing with it, because I have no conception of strategy in terms of a massive assault anyway.

[Geoffrey]

That just loks kool.

[plusminus]

I beat those 10 witches with my grey turtle, back when I was just returning to the game! :D

[powza]

All i can say to this topic is...Grey sets doesnt really matter, its how much skill the person who uses has. Some people may think one sets is the Best grey form others will no thing the same thing. There is no best grey form, and i seriously doubt there ever will.
I agree with Geoff.

Anyways I have a heap of different grey sets that I will post here for you all to critique......soon, once all the grey tournies are done :)

[Geoffrey]

Ill Post mine after Puns Tourney ends.

[Forest_Archer]

Ill Post mine after Puns Tourney ends.

That might be a while, considering that we aren't even on round 4 yet.

I made a list of mandatory units on the first page. It's pretty limited.

[powza]

2 clerics = nub :)
Thats all I got to say for now

[shatterstar]

i hope we never find anything even near resembling the so-called 'best grey form'. if anyone proves that theres a single form superior to or lacking weaknesses against all other forms, i'll go start playing chess.

if anyone sees me on rev or banff gimme a yell and we'll give my 4-pyro form a workout.

[Varix]

can soebody rate this? (tips for improvement welcome)
http://www.freeimghosting.com/images/Varix/p1157737566227.jpg

[Punishment]

Very common.

Looks good.

I use same one sometimes,

Maybe put BW back row, and the chanty in front of cleric, but it's fine as is.

[Varix]

chanty is quite useful there, since many players try to get through on the right side.
where is the difference?

completely unrelated:
why can't i see my signature

[Ed The Azure]

Very common.

Looks good.

I use same one sometimes,

Maybe put BW back row, and the chanty in front of cleric, but it's fine as is.


Same side, having a BW in the backrow aint always such a good idea, especially in the case the Chanty would be an easy LOS shot from the beginning, you'd be stuck barrier-ing it from the start, unless you're actually aware of what you're doing in the long run. Ocassionally, I'd throw up my BW up a little bit, just to get deeper into my opponents form, as well as have an extra square into barrier-ing. But then again, to each his own.

(and yes I'm aware there is no hyphon in Barriering, it just looks weird...)

[Punishment]

Same side, having a BW in the backrow aint always such a good idea, especially in the case the Chanty would be an easy LOS shot from the beginning, you'd be stuck barrier-ing it from the start, unless you're actually aware of what you're doing in the long run. Ocassionally, I'd throw up my BW up a little bit, just to get deeper into my opponents form, as well as have an extra square into barrier-ing. But then again, to each his own.

(and yes I'm aware there is no hyphon in Barriering, it just looks weird...)

I like the back row BW, because it is very hard for a scout to hit with (without going into LW range), especially same sides. In opp sides, It provides a bit of flank protection to cleric, and it doesnt' block the cleric in (like a bw in front of cleric) does.

[Geoffrey]

can soebody rate this? (tips for improvement welcome)
http://www.freeimghosting.com/images/Varix/p1157737566227.jpg

Nub, Just copy one of the best greys set :p, if want to see how its used to play i suggest playing its creator and being flawlessed by him. :)

[Match Strike]

It's not copying Bottles set, as I assume your reference to be, because that general type of form is so common, several people are bound to come up with very simialar unit positions.

I like the idea of a lightning ward a little more centered than is usual, I think it creates balance as far as which side you get. That's just a thought though. Someone else should test it out :cool:

[Cliche]

http://img311.imageshack.us/img311/2171/greyformch6.png

I've had really great results with this form. Possibly the best grey form I've ever used, in terms of all-around ability. Such as gold on grey, grey on grey. I've yet to lose with it.

[Coffin Fedder]

It looks good, strong agasint same side. But, what if they had a drop set like a mud and all of that greatness

[Matt 34.5]

it is a nice set, mine works realy well for me -- Im guessing your a beter gray than me, but you should give this set a shot. Its biggest downfall I think is the open B ward, but I use for many things, and I rarely lose it.

http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/1781/grayset01mu5.jpg

I like it for the position of the scout. Its well deffended, and its conveniant when jumped by a noob -- its in an excellent place to go for a cleric right off the bat. And the B ward; nomatter where my scout or chanty move their first turn, their fully protected by it.

But then again my set is based a little more on being ready for all players, instead of just good players, because I don't jump anyone, I let everyone jump me.

I like it better witht he second chanty tho...

[Trophy]

the only place you could find the best grey set is on legends

[Cliche]

the only place you could find the best grey set is on legends

With drops? No thank you.

[Forest_Archer]

Drop sets = Oh-Ver-Rated *clap, clap, clapclapclap* :)

[the bird]

there is no perfect setup for grey or gold. remember it takes skill to use each setup. no matter what setup ya'll post there is always a weakness.

[The Ultimater]

there is no perfect setup for grey or gold. remember it takes skill to use each setup. no matter what setup ya'll post there is always a weakness.

Yeah, that's true. i remember that one time a grey beat me with the original setup.:dry:

[the bird]

Yeah, that's true. i remember that one time a grey beat me with the original setup.:dry:


alot of people say my gold setup is very weak cause of flanking but if u kill one scout then move the cleric to the other side of the frostie then there is no way there getting my cleric. i love how people waste there time coming up with perfect setups even though there is no perfect setup.

[Geoffrey]

it is a nice set, mine works realy well for me -- Im guessing your a beter gray than me, but you should give this set a shot. Its biggest downfall I think is the open B ward, but I use for many things, and I rarely lose it.

http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/1781/grayset01mu5.jpg


:) I would beat you since my LW placement can hit your BW.

Cliche your set looks good, very good same side, except opp i think it woulod be alot easier to win.

[The Pirate]

http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/4591/untitledrp0.jpg
2 Drops; 1 drop; No drop.

Most fun forms I have ever used.

[Punishment]

Cliche

Your grey form is almost Exactly like one of my regular ones :p

My scout is up one though, so it can hit the other corners if i need to....

[The Pirate]

Mine is not cliche, I am one of two people that use that Lightning ward position that I have played.

Edit: I just got that there is a member named cliche. :-)

Stupid me.

[powza]

Interesting LW placement Pirate. We should have a game some time.

And I agree with Geoff in relation to Matt 34.5's set. I would go for the BW immediatley if I were playing you. In a few of my sets I could fry it first turn with LW. Its always a hard question about BW's. How far up do you put them? Solely for defence? Or do you want to have scout coverage over the whole board? I have never 100% made up my mind on this and different sets of mine differ greatly in their BW placement. But one thing is uniform with all my sets, I always have a BW somewhere, they are vital

Edit: I lied, I actually have 1 set that has no BW.

[The Pirate]

http://i8.tinypic.com/4556grm.jpg

Another one I have a lot of fun playing with.

Dual Pyros are actually very fun in a no enchantress no LW formation. I win almost all my games with this form.

[Matt 34.5]

:) I would beat you since my LW placement can hit your BW.

Cliche your set looks good, very good same side, except opp i think it woulod be alot easier to win.

Except, if you kill my B ward that isn't the end of the game. ;)

[powza]

I realise that, but it screws up your defences quite substantially. Mages, chanty and cleric will be easy pickings after thats gone

[Trophy]

10 withes would work thats what i use :)

[SoilWorker]

my grey has 10 DMW on legends

[Magician]

7 witches, 3knights...I got owned against that!

[Punishment]

7 witches, 3knights...I got owned against that!

Ahahaha

Noob :p

[Noda]

i really want to see how FA does with that rush against dabooz and real.

[Geoffrey]

Heh. I hope he uses agasint me in Puns Tourney :p

[shatterstar]

:) I would beat you since my LW placement can hit your BW.

Cliche your set looks good, very good same side, except opp i think it woulod be alot easier to win.

word. i was thinking the same thing. we need to get a game sometime. :)

[planktiffy]

guysguys i think iv'e found the "perfect" gray formation im currently 93-0 and yes i have been counting... when i first started with the set-up i beat all the grays in the lobby and no1else would play me cuz they were scared, so i played a gold (some noob i forget his name but he was like 1200) and then better grays came on and i beat them also... all around 1300 one of the 1300's i flawlessed with this set-up, maybe it's jus because im mad nasty :) i will show this set-up after puni's gray extravaganza is done because i don't want my competition lookin at my set... you can pm me if you wish to see it.

[Hatchet Warrior]

F_A i'll play your rush.

Plank, maybe a gray game sometime?

[planktiffy]

ok any tiime except for now because i have to go :) peace

[Geoffrey]

It is not the perfect grey formation, there is no perfect formation, it is the Skill which matters, most 1300's are noobs anyway who only play crap players to get stats.

[Match Strike]

It is not the perfect grey formation, there is no perfect formation, it is the Skill which matters, most 1300's are noobs anyway who only play crap players to get stats.
Maybe if you would care to look at the premise of the thread that inspired this one, you would see that we are not searching for an "unbeatable" form, but one with which a skilled player can play any other grey formation and not be at a major formation disadvantage, the way enchantress turtles are at a disdvantage directly opposite a mage turtle, default form is at a disadvantage against multiple frontline witches, etc.

Back tot he discussion at hand, I've become fond of scouts placed one space back from the front row, center tile. From this position it can be reasonably surrounded on both flanks with some lightning ward coverage, and can hit every square on the board in one move, including clerics in either corner. It works best, IMO, with a lightning ward with three spaces between it and the wall. The form becomes vaguely cornered, but spread enough that it can turn any game into a quick or drawn out one, depending on what suits it. The major disadvantage is that a centered lightning ward can hit the scout int hat spot, which is troubling, but perhaps not as bad as it may seem, with a barrier ward and a good place for thescout to retreat to, if need be. Besides, centered lightning wards aren't all that common.

[Soda]

I am the best.

[powza]

I agree

[Magician]

I don't :)

[marklar2]

I'm 1-0 against you Soda. Won by 6 or 7 as well. ;)

[Soda]

6 or 7 don't make me laugh, I don't remember that far though. It is also funny how I challenge you everytime I see you and you refuse me everytime. Grow some balls mate or come up with better excuses. ;)

[Geoffrey]

Lol There is that aussie spirit :p

[powza]

You gotta love Soda. Says it like it is. No useless niceties! Haha. owned

[Soda]

Cause he is a dumbass, beats me once and thinks he is so great. I ask him for rematches, he is either always "busy" or has to get his friend's stats up.

[Geoffrey]

Haha I <3 Soda, Mark play him again and lets see you will lose :)

[dab00z]

i really want to see how FA does with that rush against dabooz and real.

*cough*

[Soda]

Might have to see the doctor about that cough of yours. :)

[dab00z]

I keep calling the doctor, but he says hes busy getting his friends stats up. What can you do? :P

[marklar2]

Soda shut up. You are the most overrated grey in this game. I have denied you one time that I have seen you. I played your 900 grey account on my 1390 Mobius account, you think I'm scared of losing stats? You're not that great of a player and I beat you fairly easily so shut your mouth noob.

[Forest_Archer]

Please take your arguement somewhere else. And no need to apologize.

[Anarchy_United]

Soda shut up. You are the most overrated grey in this game. I have denied you one time that I have seen you. I played your 900 grey account on my 1390 Mobius account, you think I'm scared of losing stats? You're not that great of a player and I beat you fairly easily so shut your mouth noob.

lol, everyone who knows anything knows I'm the most overated grey player in the game. Conversly, I'm also one of the most underated gold players.

[phoenixofflames]

lol, everyone who knows anything knows I'm the most overated grey player in the game. Conversly, I'm also one of the most underated gold players.

tru dat.

[Soda]

Soda shut up. You are the most overrated grey in this game. I have denied you one time that I have seen you. I played your 900 grey account on my 1390 Mobius account, you think I'm scared of losing stats? You're not that great of a player and I beat you fairly easily so shut your mouth noob.
Play me again if I am so easy. :)

[marklar2]

I get on around once a week on Mobius1 if you want a game.

[Soda]

About time...

[Magician]

Haha, Go Soda! I've got money on you to win this ;)

[The Ultimater]

ok this is the best gold form
http://img53.imageshack.us/img53/1511/beastyrulezib0.png (http://imageshack.us)

and this is what i win my battles with when i'm on gray.

http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/8666/bestgrayformdn1.png (http://imageshack.us)

well there are other good ones for gray but this is the one I use because it is oldschool and it is really defensive and you can attack really well with it too so i would recomend this gray form.

[Magician]

Lol!! My turt would totally own your dsm's ass. Well, in opposite sides anyway. Same side I'd have a bit more difficultly, but I think I'd survive.

On the other hand, the grey form is solid. We should get a grey game sometime :)

Edit: 500th post! w00t!

[powza]

Hes clearly one of those Legends wankers. One scout. Pssh!!
You are right Mag, and half decent turt on oposite sides would own that gold form.

The grey form is decent, nothing special, just a semi-standard turt really. I have a form similar to that with only about 4 pieces varying their locations by one square. I have the sassy back 1, the scout in 1, the witch across 1, and the BW in front of the chanty. Its the form that got me to 1450 as a grey so it definetely works.

[marklar2]

Haha, Go Soda! I've got money on you to win this ;)

Thanks for the support. :)

[Syko99]

lol marklar and soda r both good greys this is gonna be a good fight ( idk who will win ):p

[Geoffrey]

Ultimater, try putting the scout on the wall, helps alout when flanking.

[parking lot]

question. how will you know when youve found the perfect form?

[Cliche]

question. how will you know when youve found the perfect form?


When noobs stop asking questions. :rolleyes:

[Magician]

Thanks for the support. :)

Anytime mate :)

[Syko99]

When noobs stop asking questions. :rolleyes:

LMFAO:p

[marklar2]

Remind you of someone syko? :)

[Syko99]

Remind you of someone syko? :)


o yea i was just thinking about it...... it kinda reminds me of u:p

[marklar2]

I'm not the one who bugged Pedro for an hour straight about how to take a screenshot. >_>

[Syko99]

lol marklar im not gonna fight with u and that was like the first week i started playing :P

[~SlayeR~]

Soda will beat marklar.

[Match Strike]

ok this is the best gold form
http://img53.imageshack.us/img53/1511/beastyrulezib0.png (http://imageshack.us)

and this is what i win my battles with when i'm on gray.

http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/8666/bestgrayformdn1.png (http://imageshack.us)

well there are other good ones for gray but this is the one I use because it is oldschool and it is really defensive and you can attack really well with it too so i would recomend this gray form.
Neither of those are very good. The Gold one is so blase that I won't even comment on it, and the grey one has what is probably one of the worst barrier ward positions--you put it right where it not only doesn't protect the flank of the cleric, it actually prevents the cleric from retreating, meaning if your opponent parks a knight there, you're done for.

[The Ultimater]

Neither of those are very good. The Gold one is so blase that I won't even comment on it, and the grey one has what is probably one of the worst barrier ward positions--you put it right where it not only doesn't protect the flank of the cleric, it actually prevents the cleric from retreating, meaning if your opponent parks a knight there, you're done for.

Well to tell you the truth. there is no perfect form. you just have to know how to use it. my cleric doasn't get trapped and when i use the gold form I just know how to use it and try to think like the opponent.

So F.Y.I. there is no perfect for, you just have to know how to use it.

[marklar2]

Soda will beat marklar.

This coming from someone I'm 3-1 against. ;)

[dab00z]

This coming from someone I'm 3-1 against. ;)

You've lost to slayer? n00b :P

[marklar2]

Meh he had a huge same side advantage. >_>

[dab00z]

ahh he used that form...yeah I played him same side to a tie recently (he DCed with a couple of knights vs my chant/wards/cleric so woulda been a tie).

Soda and Noda are the only people I can think of who have beaten me more than once, but I've played them both a lot and am about even with them, and usually one of us is under the influence :) lol. Cool guys... I guess anyone who has a name ending in oda is the man.

[Geoffrey]

Match in reply to your comment, that set works well. I Have won many games with a set simialr to it, and gotten over 1400 with that exact set. Slayer is average thats why im 8-0 with him :), and he hasnt gotten me under 7 units once.

[stryker]

This just in: Soda Beats marklar. I saw it myself. I assume it was a gg though.

[Soda]

My name ends in oda, that means I am the man...woohoo!
EDIT: Yes it was a gg actually.

[marklar2]

Indeed it was. Hoping for a rematch if I have the time to get around to it.

[~SlayeR~]

ahh he used that form...yeah I played him same side to a tie recently (he DCed with a couple of knights vs my chant/wards/cleric so woulda been a tie).


I had 3 knights, BW and a cleric... you had bw, cleric, scout and chanty.

So ... who knows how it would have turned out. :-/

[parking lot]

question. how will you know when youve found the perfect form?

When noobs stop asking questions. :rolleyes:


forgive me if im wrong, but id say the person who flames somone without good reason is more of a noob than somone who just started

[Magician]

This just in: Soda Beats marklar. I saw it myself. I assume it was a gg though.

*takes his earnings* :cool:

[parking lot]

edit

[zzzaacckk]

Neither of those are very good. The Gold one is so blase that I won't even comment on it, and the grey one has what is probably one of the worst barrier ward positions--you put it right where it not only doesn't protect the flank of the cleric, it actually prevents the cleric from retreating, meaning if your opponent parks a knight there, you're done for.

I agree with matches BW idea. I use my BW either one spot infront of where it is (although it is vulnerable to scout attacks) or switch it with the chanty to cover the cleric's flank (what I normally use). If you are palying defensive, use the ladder, if offensive or same side, use the first.

[Match Strike]

Well to tell you the truth. there is no perfect form. you just have to know how to use it...So F.Y.I. there is no perfect for, you just have to know how to use it.
You only typed three sentences, and two were nearly identical.

How do you know there is no perfectly balanced form? And we've already established that the Perfect form must be used by someone good enough to be flexible in their style... yes, soemone who knows how to use it.

[Imortal]

How do you do a mage bomb? Is it special attack?

[VAMP7]

yes you press F5 right as you are about to attack with the mage.

[The Gigolojlo]

The search is over...

The best grey form is the best gray player playing with a natural grey form. Chew on that for a bit. :cool:

[The Coder]

I has my grey sets. They own good enough. Standard grey turts.

[gigolojlo gl]

Who the hell is stealing my name :rtfm:?

[Thy_Mage]

The turtle is nice, Forest_Archer those are both GREAT forms!

[Geoffrey]

I beat his turt, some-one else was using it. Was weird playing same sides against, but i still came out on top :)

[Thy_Mage]

Congrats. :cool:

[Thy_Mage]

What the heck who negged me... For no reason also.

EDIT: Thanks for whoever said that to me, added some rep!

[zzzaacckk]

Dont double post... there is an editbutton for a reason.

[bloodreign]

MY COSBYS grey dropless form is hard to beat. I think it could use some tweaking but as you can see there are many positives about this form. you can rush the scout to the opponents corner and hit SOFT units,you then have the option to barrier him.I can move my knights to that corner also to prevent another unit attacking my BARRIER WARD.This set is hooped when the barrier ward is destroyed, as i rely on it heavily for defense, and as a physical barrier to mele units.Here is my FAVORITE SET...

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d34/realistromeo/cosbykid.jpg

It may not be the best "GREY FORM" out there but it must rank among the best in "DROPLESS GREY FORMS" i routinley beat 10-15 people in a row then maybe the occasional gold that comes my way (:D usualy via chanty) i hope you like my form...its not realy heavy on the firepower but it is a durrable and versatile form that is amost always competitive in any situation.

Do not pay attention to the stats as i have been "DISSCONECTED" in several close games (3)and lost precious stats.I also chalenge anyone(golds included) and try my best to compete.The few that have beat me with "GREY SETS" have similar sets(same units different form) and it usualy takes a long time to beat me. Unlesss they have A LW/DMW/2 PYROS and a BW SAME SIDE to out muscle me.

[Geoffrey]

No, that set sucks balls, i played you on my grey Koala, and i owned you. That BW posistion sucks balls. Seriously you either play many noobs who are the 10-15 people you beat and you dont play any good greys. Seriously you play a good grey they should rip that set apart.

/EDIT: If i remember correctly my grey dropless set (3 knights, Wards, Scout, Pyro, Witch, Chanty and Cleric) beat your grey set within 10-15 mins, not that long. Even without the pyro same side which i had, i could take that set very easily, and im sure if you got a very good grey maybe 1200+ they should be able to do so aswell

[powza]

Yeah I agree. The BW position is not so great. If I got same sides vs you I'd witch the BW and scout the first chance I got, even if it meant giving my own knight a little bit of damage.

[bloodreign]

I think i do remember getting my ass handed to me on a silver platter by you koala.But to say it sucks balls is an overstatement and for the acusation that a GOOD grey can RIP ME APPART ....well i say a better than good grey can RIPP ME APART . plus this is my dropless form..i just can't play enough to get drops.

I was looking as sets and MORNINGSTARS SET looks deadly i love it more than my set!

[powza]

Meet me on Great Lakes now and Ill give you a same sides match. My account is azwop

[Geoffrey]

Dude, DONT USE DROPS!. I play dropless about 99% of the time, i only use drops for fun like 3-4 chanties lol.

[powza]

Hmmmmm....he left

Hope I didn't scare him away :p

[pils]

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g125/b-battery/zzz.jpg

that is my grey set, i like it and it works for me. my normal rating for that set is abot 1250 but thats because i have been playing for over 3 years and i have some skill. If u think this set sucks then come find me on GL my name is pils or the lil music note, if u see it u will know.

[Coffin Fedder]

I think i do remember getting my ass handed to me on a silver platter by you koala.But to say it sucks balls is an overstatement and for the acusation that a GOOD grey can RIP ME APPART ....well i say a better than good grey can RIPP ME APART . plus this is my dropless form..i just can't play enough to get drops.

I was looking as sets and MORNINGSTARS SET looks deadly i love it more than my set!

Its the truth. I would easily rape you with my same side formation or even the oppisite side. Your scouts to wide open and important to lose that fast. The BW is easily hit with LOS so the units screwed. To many LOS spots also.
Nice formation also Pils. Netjak strong.

[Match Strike]

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g125/b-battery/zzz.jpg

that is my grey set, i like it and it works for me. my normal rating for that set is abot 1250 but thats because i have been playing for over 3 years and i have some skill. If u think this set sucks then come find me on GL my name is pils or the lil music note, if u see it u will know.

I worry about your barrier ward position. I think it's best used there only if you have alot of mages, even that, one to the left is better if you want a lot of range for it.

[powza]

That form seems to be a little open to a same side scout shot straight through to the cleric. Considered putting a unit directly in front of the cleric?

[Cliche]

That form seems to be a little open to a same side scout shot straight through to the cleric. Considered putting a unit directly in front of the cleric?

Then the Scout would get zapped by the LW and he could just put something in front of the Cleric. It's like putting the Scout into a dangerous state and the other person would have to waste a heal or BW the Scout. After that, he may be able to kill the Scout at little cost to himself.

[Bobcat]

There is no best form. There are forms that can survive reasonably well against all forms.

[Coffin Fedder]

Exactly. There will some day be a great form. But to every single formation. Theres an exact = counter formation.

[~SUPERNATURAL~]

There is no best form. There are forms that can survive reasonably well against all forms.

true any set can work good if u no how 2 use it unless its a really bad form I and alot of other ppl can beat guys with frost muds furgons with a default set

[Match Strike]

There is no best form. There are forms that can survive reasonably well against all forms.

You're not exactly the first person to say that.

I don't think any of us have many illusions as to whether or not a "perfect" grey form will ever be created, however byt trying to get there we hopefully come across some interesting ideas along the way.

[Morning Star]

I think i do remember getting my ass handed to me on a silver platter by you koala.But to say it sucks balls is an overstatement and for the acusation that a GOOD grey can RIP ME APPART ....well i say a better than good grey can RIPP ME APART . plus this is my dropless form..i just can't play enough to get drops.

I was looking as sets and MORNINGSTARS SET looks deadly i love it more than my set!


Just had to quote this since I'm getting some much needed Love *hugs everyone in thread*

[Nexes]

As most people say here, it obviously IS l-wardable. But I appreciate your effort on trying to show us great rushes and turtles. Other than the L ward drawback, I think it is great. =)