Got Band From A Brother

[Samsgroin]

Hey guys this is Samsgroin. i am currently on auto-banned because of my brother and because SI-leader and veratas. didnt believe my story. i typed tho the bit#her going to take my dog for a walk lol brb. I let my little brother take over just to lose to SI-leader. You can ask the bit#her all of that. I took my dog and when i got back SI_leader goes im going to ban u for spamming or false report. i have no clue whats going on push my little brother to the side and ask him what happened he said he swore to the guys because he was losing and then ran away. i finished the game lost to only find that i would be d/ced and put on auto-ban/kick. so i am asking for a second chance ill change my pass, i wont let him on i wont do anything. Plz, let me bak in. every1 i know from my clan know i wouldnt swear thanks, and plz let me get off auto-ban. :cray: :roulette:

[Coffin Fedder]

if he was spamming ur off the server for 3 hours I believe.

[zzzaacckk]

its an ip ban... if he did something worth banning... its a problem.

[Wizzy`]

your band like bottle :eek:

[savanna]

i gave him a green boxy, wizzums.

[meat.eater]

Whining over a 3 hour kickban... You're lucky I didnt delete you.

The screenshot (http://img157.imageshack.us/my.php?image=samsct1.jpg) provided by 'the bird' was not conclusive evidence that it was excessive swearing, and unfortunately (and luckily for you - I'm inclined to believe Bird) it wasn't enough to delete you account, in my eyes, even though Bird claimed it continued for a long time.

YOU are responsible for your account. Do not blame your younger brother or anyone else. If you are comfortable enough with your brothers behavior (if it really was him - I'm also inclined to believe it was you) to give him your password and let him play, then you are responsible for the actions that he decides to take while on your account.

After this episode, I'm sure no more "Little Brothers" will be logging on the account, eh? Oh and one more kickban is headed your way, as I told Bird would happen (2 kickban offense), and if you (meaning your brother, your account, your responsibility) and your account are charged with any more evidence that you have been acting inappropriately, I will list your account for deletion. But, I decided to let you go with a couple warnings (because that's really what kickbans are for golds).

If I were you, I'd be thanking me, not whining about it. Your account's behavior cannot go unaccounted for. Maybe your account will behave next time.

-meat.eater

[uniquinous]

I agree - veritas did you a favor by not deleting you on the spot. Remember, YOU are responsible for your account and everything that appears to come from it. The staff members ONLY look at accounts - we are user blind - meaning it doesn't matter if you, your brother, your dog, or a hijacker breaks our rules, we take action against the account.

Learn from your mistake, at the very least.

[the bird]

i was on si leader at the time and u was crusing at me so deal with your ban. he was saying go fuk a tree and all this other shit. i think the ban should stay. i can say i was walking my dog too when it was really me saying all that stuff. it was on that account so that account is deleted. i didn't get u for spamming even though i could have since everytime i got a side hit at 90%+ chance of hitting u would say fuk u, u lucky bastard. the screen would look like this.
fuk u, u lucky bastard
luck
luck
luck
u lucky bastard
it is not my fault i can hit every time at 90%+ of hitting the unit.

[the bird]

now i wish i got all the s/s's from him. i don't know if it was your bro but one sec u was nice then the other sec u mean. maybe milti personialties or something but hey it is noy my fault i just did what i had to do.

[meat.eater]

Dont feel guilty or incomplete, bird. Any help is appreciated for our tasks.

[the bird]

i will catch him cusing again, i see him on army all the time. he was pissed cause i stole his clan member kingtut. but anyway how would your bro know i stole him from your clan if he dosen't know anything about tao really. u are the clan leader and i stole him and u got pissed so u challenged me.

[Snork]

Actually Bird, now you deserve a ban.

You typed out everything he said.

If it was bad enough for him to get banned, by all fairness you should be banned too.

I know Bird didn't use this excuse, but, thinking ahead;
Repeating what somebody said and then saying you shouldn't get in trouble because you were only repeating it is as bad as a person saying their brother did it.
You chose to break the rules.
It's your fault.
By your own statements, you should be banned.

[uniquinous]

except - this isn't the game. Game is open to any age - forums clearly house the older audience (I would point to the 13 year old technicality for viewing the forums but...)

so... if he repeated all that in game, you'd have a point.

it's not the case as it's a different space with different rules for these things. Rep boosting doesn't result in deletion here. Spamming doesn't consist of a few lines of repetition but rather a few posts. And you certainly don't see too much cyber, aside from meat eater, on the forums.

apples and oranges

[meat.eater]

The swearing rules are around on the forums, but less strict. Altered swearing on forums isnt a big deal.

As Quin said, Apples and Oranges.

[Draquist]

And I expected this thread to be about the war series on TV...meh, what a let down. :p

[BaxVarlet]

So bird steals his clan member.
He challenges Bird.
Bird gets really lucky.
He loses it and starts cursing.
Bird tells the mods to ban him.
Bird starts a vandetta against him.

I think you both need to cool off. This sort of things happens on a daily basis, and for you, bird, to make it your life goal to get him to curse again, that's pretty sad.

[Snork]

apples and oranges

No it's not.
The other violations have nothing to do with this. You're just trying to distract from the real issue.

He violated the rules for language.
Show me where the rules say that swearing is more acceptable in the forums than it is in here.

Point to the age button all you want. Instead I'll use common sense. All they have to do is click a button. Wow, that's certainly proof.
Anybody under that age probably doesn't have the maturity to say, hey, I'm not old enough, I won't play. There are many underage people in here.
In fact, a large number of people under 21 have that problem. People with Fake ID's for example.
Of course, since that hurts your arguement, let's just ignore it.

As for being less strict; I won't argue against this as my own posts have been given leeway(sp?) at times.
But, what he said was pretty severe. It was clearly an intentional violation, not just a word thrown in to emphasize a point.
Cutting a little slack shouldn't work when they are that far over the line.

As well, I think the claim that alternate spellings don't count is silly.
If they count in the game, they should count here.
People understand what they mean here. It's not hiding anything.
I think what has to be considered is intent.
What did the poster mean to say, and did people understand.
In this case, it's clear what he meant, and anybody that can read English can understand it. (I'm not being sarcastic)


If another person violated the rules and he demands a ban, fine.
If he violates those same rules, the same fate should follow him.

We obviously have differing views on this.
But as far as I'm concerned, he violated the rules, and should receive an appropriate reprimand.

[Snork]

And I expected this thread to be about the war series on TV...meh, what a let down. :p

Why would you expect that?
Well, I'm sorry we let you down.
On the plus side, we are having an interesting discussion, and those are always fun.
Please participate if you want.

Or, if you don't want to, go make a thread on whatever it was you hoped to find here, and you won't be let down any more.


Also, I need to mention, I don't condone what that guy said in the game in any way. I don't know him, I am not involved. But such in game behavior is foul and should not be tolerated. I've had to deal with that since the game first started, and I was sick of it the first day.

[Snork]

As Quin said

Is he Rescorlian?

[uniquinous]

whoa whoa whoa....

He violated the rules for language.
Show me where the rules say that swearing is more acceptable in the forums than it is in here....here you want a technicality as you can't seem to use common sense...

Point to the age button all you want. Instead I'll use common sense....and here you use common sense because you won't use the technicality...

Pick one.

Let's break this down a bit. If instead of posting the dialogue, he posted a screenshot, would that also make him just as wrong? He's describing the incident. Where the original user was SPAMMING "luck" as a meaningless waste of space, the bird was using the description of what happened as the meaning behind his claim - thus it's not spam as it had direct relevance to his point.

Now let's look at the cursing. Should he have repeated it? Well, wasn't the smartest thing - but it wasn't the degree or intent that the original user had, was it? Wouldn't you say there is a huge difference between being personally attacked with curses, and observing that scene as a third party? You're essentially claiming "getting beaten up is the same as watching a fight". No. Violence is still bad. Letting children watch violence is bad, but putting a person IN the violent situation is much worse.

So here we have someone who is retelling the situation. Yes, it's bad to watch as a third party. No, it's not the same thing as being attacked with it first hand.

As well, I think the claim that alternate spellings don't count is silly.Unless I missed someone, I don't think anyone has claimed that...

[Itzphilly]

your band like bottle :eek:

bottle got banned?

[Snork]

By break it down, I see you mean try to confuse the issue as your arguement is fallacious.

You're depending on rules that don't exist.
I'm not relying on a technicality, you are trying to.

In the rules, it does not say that swearing in the forums is more acceptable than in the game.
Making up your own implied rules is a lack of common sense.
It also invalidates your point.
Swearing in the forums is against the rules.

For age, it's common knowledge that some people that are underage deceive the system to get what they want.
It's not an observation, or opinion, it's fact.
Your opinion that only people above that age are here is false.

I see that since your two main points are incorrect, you're attempting to confuse the issue again.
Allow me to clarify;

He broke the rules for swearing.
I am not discussing any other rules at this point.
Just swearing.

And that is something he quite clearly did.
Just reporting an incident is not an excuse.
I believe we are told to report incidents to mods or admins personally, not post them publicly
And we have also been told that just because somebody else did it, that doesn't mean you won't get in trouble for it if you do it too.
So you can't say that he was only relaying it, because I've listed two reasons we are told not to do so.

For trying to compare it to fighting, jolly good try. False analogy.

What we're actually talking about is two ways of violating the same rules, both with the same result.
The rules say that swearing and such is not permissable.
They do not say for what reasons. Just that it is not acceptable.
The other guy typed the words, that is a violation.
Bird typed the words, that is a violation.

The rules themselves say not to handle the situation in this way.
So I think the rules win in this case.

whoa whoa whoa....

...here you want a technicality as you can't seem to use common sense...

...and here you use common sense because you won't use the technicality...

Pick one.

Let's break this down a bit. If instead of posting the dialogue, he posted a screenshot, would that also make him just as wrong? He's describing the incident. Where the original user was SPAMMING "luck" as a meaningless waste of space, the bird was using the description of what happened as the meaning behind his claim - thus it's not spam as it had direct relevance to his point.

Now let's look at the cursing. Should he have repeated it? Well, wasn't the smartest thing - but it wasn't the degree or intent that the original user had, was it? Wouldn't you say there is a huge difference between being personally attacked with curses, and observing that scene as a third party? You're essentially claiming "getting beaten up is the same as watching a fight". No. Violence is still bad. Letting children watch violence is bad, but putting a person IN the violent situation is much worse.

So here we have someone who is retelling the situation. Yes, it's bad to watch as a third party. No, it's not the same thing as being attacked with it first hand.

Unless I missed someone, I don't think anyone has claimed that...

[Snork]

bottle got banned?

No.

He made somebody upset, so they requested he be 'Band', not understanding the difference between banned and band.

People felt it was amusing, so the term stuck around.

[uniquinous]

You spend an aweful lot of time claiming I am trying to confuse the issues, and no time backing that claim. Try this, next time: "You confuse the issues by..." :wink2: Now, onto your points...

You're depending on rules that don't exist.
I'm not relying on a technicality, you are trying to.

In the rules, it does not say that swearing in the forums is more acceptable than in the game.
Making up your own implied rules is a lack of common sense.Common sense speaks of reading between the lines and not only relying on the technical. Common sense would be ascertaining how things work around here without specific rules thrown in your face. So, I would disagree and say I am indeed using common sense. Let me lay out this technicality you so strongly demand:
Small infringments will incur a warning.
transmit or post sexually explicit images or other content which in the sole discretion of TAO Gaming, Inc is deemed to be offensive; nor shall you transmit any unlawful, harmful, threatening, abusive, harassing, defamatory, vulgar, obscene, hateful, racially, ethnically, or otherwise objectionable content;
...
In the event that you violate any of the foregoing provisions, TAO Gaming, Inc may at its option and without notice to you, as well you will forego your payment for that term regardless of how much time is left on the term. TAO Gaming reserves the right to: (i) temporarily suspended your access to Tactics Arena Online; or (ii) immediately terminate your access to Tactics Arena OnlineNow, let's use our common sense to figure out the difference. One says minor infringments will result in warning. The other states infringements will result in suspension/termination.

So on one hand we have a range of actions taken against a user, on the other it's an all-or-nothing action of the most sever kind. You still claim these are the same? :huh:

For age, it's common knowledge that some people that are underage deceive the system to get what they want.
It's not an observation, or opinion, it's fact.
Your opinion that only people above that age are here is false.I never stated that opinion - please reread and get the facts straight, please. However, you keep demanding we only follow rules and nothing else. Well, if we assume all rules are being followed, we have no reason to believe that <13 year olds are on these forums. The FACT is, the rules aren't followed strictly, and there is "wiggle room". The FACT is, there are kids here. The FACT is, cursing is treated more harshly in game then on forum. "It's not an observation, or opinion, it's fact", as you said. Now it seems you don't like that FACT, for some reason.

He broke the rules for swearing.
I am not discussing any other rules at this point.
Just swearing.OK, then, he should probably get a stern warning! Come on, use some COMMON SENSE and figure out why that's not exactly needed, especially at this point.

I believe we are told to report incidents to mods or admins personally, not post them publicly
And we have also been told that just because somebody else did it, that doesn't mean you won't get in trouble for it if you do it too.Whoa! You seem to be so bent on only following the rules... Where praytell in the rules does it state users are only allowed to report incidents to mods? Where does it state we are now allowed to post them publicly? :rolleyes:

For trying to compare it to fighting, jolly good try. False analogy.Verbal abuse vs physical abuse? You see no similarities? Anyone can say "you are false" - back your statement. I'm looking for an intellectual discussion, where you respectfully rip apart my points. Save the kindergarten "I'm not listening to you" routine for someone else.

What we're actually talking about is two ways of violating the same rules, both with the same result.

The rules say that swearing and such is not permissable.If they were the same rules with the same method of repremanding, then why on Earth would they be written in two different places? Now it's true both set of rules say swearing is not permissable, but the reaction to such violations are quite different between the two sets of rules, and are accurately reflected as such in practice

If your claim is that the rules and the actions aren't perfectly corresponding, we can always change the rules a bit to better represent these acts.

[Snork]

Oh yeah.
I forgot something.

I believe myself to be correct.
However, if I am proven wrong, I won't continue to argue or name call.
I'm just here to discuss.

I gotta go.
I'm uploading my crappy home movie tapes into my computer, and the program I use will crash if I'm doing too many other things.

Anybody that cares, cya later. :)

[Samsgroin]

Thanks a lot meat.eater!!!!!:bigsmile: :bigsmile: :bigsmile: :) :) :)... and the rest of u mods!

[BaxVarlet]

No.

He made somebody upset, so they requested he be 'Band', not understanding the difference between banned and band.

People felt it was amusing, so the term stuck around.

But the bottle account is actually banned, per request.

[Snork]

The Birds post was against forum rules.
________________
1.2 Content
Your Content shall not: (c) be defamatory, obscene, or pornographic

1.2.1 Swearing
"All language must be PG-13. Obscene language can mean the deletion of your posts and further action."
"Excessive use or inappropriate words will incur a 3 day ban and each infringement after this will incur the full 7 day ban."

Note: Casually bleeping out some of the letters in a swear word does not make it acceptable.
------------------

- Bird violated those two rules.

-The rules clearly state that what he did is a bannable offense.

-Posting it is the violation. There are no clauses that give any exceptions when it is acceptable. Posting it for any reason is a violation.

-Changing letters is the same as bleeping letters. It does not make it acceptable.

-His use was excessive. I count 7 swears in post #8.

-Birds post qualifies him for a 3 day ban.


I have just proved my case 100%.
And proved yours wrong.

[Snork]

I used the last post to prove you wrong.
In this post, I'll respond to your accusations and attempts at using logical fallacies.
But since I've already proved you wrong, I seperated my post into 2.

You spend an aweful lot of time claiming I am trying to confuse the issues, and no time backing that claim. Try this, next time: "You confuse the issues by..." Now, onto your points...

The issue we were dealing with was his violation of the FORUM swearing rules. Anything else you throw in there to draw attention away from the main arguement is an attempt to confuse the issue. It's a logical fallacy, a subject you seem quite proficient at.
I don't have to point these out to you. It's an obvious concious effort on your part. Good job playing dumb though.

Common sense speaks of reading between the lines and not only relying on the technical. Common sense would be ascertaining how things work around here without specific rules thrown in your face.

Actually if something is specifically against a rule, you can't claim common sense to try to create your own rules, whatever supports your case at the time.
The rules are already in place.

Now, let's use our common sense to figure out the difference. One says minor infringments will result in warning. The other states infringements will result in suspension/termination.

We're talking about forum rules, which is where Bird posted.
He directly violated these rules.
It seems your common sense is unable to grasp the concept of forum posts.

So on one hand we have a range of actions taken against a user, on the other it's an all-or-nothing action of the most sever kind. You still claim these are the same? :huh:

I never made that claim.
You're wrong about that too.
I am suggesting that when people violate the rules, they be punished in the scope of the violation.
The claim you make is yours. And it's wrong.


I never stated that opinion - please reread and get the facts straight, please. However, you keep demanding we only follow rules and nothing else. Well, if we assume all rules are being followed, we have no reason to believe that <13 year olds are on these forums.

You tried to state that the forum is off limits to people under 13, while the game is not.
You implied that because of this, the game rules are more strict to protect the underage people.
I simply showed that you were wrong, and that younger kids are in here.
That invalidates your excuse for the game to be harsher by reason of age.


The FACT is, the rules aren't followed strictly, and there is "wiggle room".

I don't see any clause in the rules that claims this.
So by the rules, wiggle room does not exist.

The FACT is, cursing is treated more harshly in game then on forum.

We're not talking about the game. We're talking about a forum post.
Not hard to figure out. Although you can't seem to grasp it.

Now it seems you don't like that FACT, for some reason.

The problem is you keep bringing irrelevant issues into it.
Maybe if you had some facts that were relevant it would be ok, but you don't.


OK, then, he should probably get a stern warning!

That's not what the rules say.

Come on, use some COMMON SENSE and figure out why that's not exactly needed, especially at this point.

Actually, I'm relying on exactly what the rules say, not made up stuff like you.
You're the one lacking the sense to read the rules.

Whoa!

Wow. Throw in some DOODs and pwnd a few times and your arguement will be unstoppable.

You seem to be so bent on only following the rules...

Yes, unlike you.

Where praytell in the rules does it state users are only allowed to report incidents to mods? Where does it state we are now allowed to post them publicly?

Here's where common sense comes into play.
You seem to have trouble with it, so pay attention.
Why should a game rule violation be posted in the forums?
There isn't a place to post it. If we were supposed to, there would be.
Also, what's better to get ahold of a mod. Make a post in random threads, or pm the mod? When you log in, do you go check every thread for messages to you before you check your pm's? :rolleyes:
In addition, why does it need to be posted? No regular forum members can do anything about it. It only serves to inflame the situation. There are people set up to deal with these things personally. Mods. It doesn't make much sense to have them if everybody in the game can deal with these situations.

Lastly, we've been told to send Screen shots and explainations directly to mods.
It's explained quite clearly in the Blacklist: Spammers and Cheaters thread in the Announcements section.
As a game mod, you should be aware of this.

Three reasons why you're wrong about needing to post them.

As a side note, I have done something similar, posted a collage of screen shots of cheaters. But only cheaters, not swearing. There were no rules violations in my posts.
I'm not claiming I was right or wrong to post it. But unlike you, I figured I would be honest and make you aware of it.

Verbal abuse vs physical abuse? You see no similarities? Anyone can say "you are false"

I did not say you were false, I said your analogy is false.
In the case we are discussing, swearing in a forum, there is no correlation in any way to the other issues you've listed.
It stands on it's own.
You tried to use false analogies to draw the arguement to a different issue that you felt you could provide a case for.
Which is because you are wrong about the main issue.
You've been proven wrong, so are grasping onto other issues, because without them, you have nothing.

I'm looking for an intellectual discussion, where you respectfully rip apart my points.

No you're not, or you wouldn't be resorting to personal attacks and fallacies. You just like to tell everybody you're smart, and then use word traps and logical circles to keep people off balance.
Nice try. But it can't always help you.

And yes, I am ripping your points apart, because you're dishonest and wrong, and I'm proving that.
As opposed to my post above, where I kept it simple and proved what I had to.

Save the kindergarten "I'm not listening to you" routine for someone else.

Actually, what's happening is I'm discussing one issue, while you're desperately grabbing at straws from other issues. And you're getting frusterated that I won't allow you to side track things.


If they were the same rules with the same method of repremanding, then why on Earth would they be written in two different places?

More deception.
I'm talking about the rules of the forum, which are in one place.
You can try and pull in rules from other games, forums, websites, or any rules you create yourself.
When you've run out of distractions, you can try and deal with the issue I've posed, not the ones you keep making up.

Now it's true both set of rules say swearing is not permissable,

We're talking about one set of rules, the forum rules, which indicate a clear resolution.

but the reaction to such violations are quite different between the two sets of rules, and are accurately reflected as such in practice

Good thing you're only a game mod.
Give you more than one set of instructions, and you can't handle it.
You mix them up and interchange them.
Good job champ.

If your claim is that the rules and the actions aren't perfectly corresponding, we can always change the rules a bit to better represent these acts.

I did not make that claim.
But keep trying to put words in my mouth.
Every time you do so, you turn out foolish.
There are two sets of rules.
I was discussing one.
Expert that you are, you failed to grasp the concept.

And you have a point.
The only way you could be right in this case is to have the rules changed for you.
But since they haven't been, you're wrong, and not nearly as smart as you thought you were.


I believe I have proven my case airtight.
I no longer need to reply to any posts to prolong an ended thread.
We have been moved to the Newbie Board anyway, which is kind of embarrassing.
So now I am done.
If you post something that touches on something outside what we've already discussed, let me know.
Otherwise, have fun. :)

[meat.eater]

What a productive conversation.

Oh, wrong thread.

[Cows Go Moo]

I really dont think youre bro was on there...and like many have said you shouldnt be whining over a 3 hour kickbann. But i agree with wat veritas. has said. You are responsible for your account.

[Samsgroin]

Thankyou meat eater,


The word was my acount was up for deletion. I was not sure if that was true or not so I wrote my story down. I thankyou oh so much for not deleting my acount. You really helped me out.


Sincerly,
Samsgroin