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Realist
08-31-2006, 01:37 PM
There seems to be very little discussion of anti strategy, perhaps because the anti is wrongly maligned as a set with either very simple strategy or none at all. But to use an anti well is actually quite a difficult task. And antis require a different set of considerations than other sets. So, let's discuss anti strategy. :)

"Anti" is short for "antirush", and generally consists of 3 knights, 2 scouts, a dragon, a frost, a cleric, a mud. The hardier units usually form a continuous line at the top to protect the back sitting cleric. Anti sets are usually pretty good, so I'm not going to go into a detailed discussion of which is best, but generally keep in mind that the strongest unit against the anti is the same-side mud. I like keeping a unit two spaces above the corner cleric, because that tends to be the weak point against muds--they can damage the cleric to 14 hp, enough to be finished off by a scout, and at the same time damage most of your other units. This unit also protects against cleric-poisoning wisps, though those are rare these days.

Also keep your scouts as seperate as feasible, so one mud can't ruin both scouts. I find three squares away to be good enough.

Lots of antis put scouts on the front. I don't like letting my scouts be pushed away by easy dragon hits, so I don't do this, but it is definitely up for discussion.

Here's my set:

http://img351.imageshack.us/img351/8576/antixg5.jpg

Perhaps the most important concept in managing an anti or rush is attack order. What are the most important units to kill? In more defensive sets, i.e grey turt v grey turt, you don't necessarily have a chance to determine what unit to focus on, you try to kill whatever you can based on your access to that unit and if you end up with a unit advantage you'll probably win. In antis and rushes, though, you can basically kill any unit you want if you really try, you have a lot of heavy power or long ranged units like dragons and scouts. Therefore, kill order is a more important concept than simply kill ease.

#1 rule: Don't focus on knights in early game. Knights are low ranged units and therefore not much of a threat. Moreover, knights benefit from clerics more than any other unit in the game due to their high armor. Deal with knights later, when you hopefully have a frost without ranged opposition, or the enemy cleric is dead.

#2 rule: Do focus on scouts and muds in early game. As long as you have either a cleric or frost alive, killing scouts and muds is your #1 priority.

Muds: I think muds are actually sometimes overrated in kill order compared to scouts. It is true that muds are the anti-killer more than any other unit, but muds are also easier to kill than scouts due to no blocking, no armor. If you do some damage to a mud, you can usually afford to wait until it attacks before you do anything else to it. Pay close attention to hit points; it is often a bad sign to see a mud at 4 hit points, it means you probably attacked it with the wrong units.

Don't attack muds when you are on the offense in an opposite side battle, unless you have nothing else to possibly attack except knights. Muds are weak on the defensive.

Scouts: My favorite scout attack unit is the dragon. I think knowing when and how to attack scouts correctly with dragons is the skill that separates good anti players from bad anti players. The reason to attack with dragon is obvious--a cleric heal doesn't protect the scout from dying in 2 shots from a dragon, and no cleric heal makes the scout vulnerable to every single unit as well as an adjacent mudquake.

Even if the scout successfully flees, you have a victory of sorts--you want scouts as far as possible from your frost/cleric base.

The only reason not to attack a scout with a dragon is if it would put the dragon in high danger of death. This usually occurs in opposite side antis. Even if you are putting your dragon in danger, though, consider that it takes a long time to kill a dragon--if you can use those turns to do a lot of damage to your opponent, it may be worth sacrificing a dragon for a scout.

One great dragon move is the hit-scout-and-threaten-cleric-at-the-same-time attack. In my set, that would be attacking the right scout either one or two squares away. This requires your opponent to either protect both scout and cleric, leaving your dragon time to recover, or to sacrifice either cleric or scout. Try to make this move when you can.

#3 rule: Killing clerics is very nice, at any point in the game

It's difficult to come up with a rule for where clerics are in the kill order. A cleric is probably more valuable than a single scout in most stages of the game. But is a cleric more useful than a frost? Depends on your opponent's units, but often, no, especially on opposite sides with low ranged units.

That said, I have played a lot of games where I really didn't understand why my opponent wasn't moving in to kill my cleric. In opposite side antis, get your scouts within 4 squares of a cleric shot, and try to keep them there even if you aren't ready to actually make the shot. Be ready to sacrifice low hp scouts for a cleric shot rather than running (as long as you can make a second shot, of course); a fleeing scout is often a useless scout; the use of the scout is its high range.

Factors that increase a clerics value: Lots of high armored units in the same army (esp. knights), fewer enemy scouts (the harder it is to kill, the more valuable it is), no enemy dragon (because dragons can kill scout in 2 hits even after a heal, but heal protects from double knight hits), opposite side forms (harder for opponents to access your units, easier for you to flee and get healed), no frost on either your or opponent's side (frosts make hit point battles less relevent).

Keep all those factors in mind when determining what it is worth sacrificing to kill your opponent's cleric or to save your own.

One more point about the cleric. It is useful as a deterant even when it is inactive. Just as a grey LW is helpful even in games where it never fires a shot, so too is the cleric useful even when it doesn't use its power for turns on end. A cleric forces your opponent to focus on a few of your units rather than attacking whatever it is easiest for him to attack. This is an incredible ability; it allows you to flee and force your opponent to follow you, and it allows you to attack with high hit point units and force your opponent to ignore that attack and instead try to kill a lower hit point unit elsewhere.

Killing dragons: The decision to focus on your opponent's dragon requires a lot of commitment. Dragons would seem to rank just below knights in kill order, due to their high hit points and high recovery. On the other hand, killing the dragon is a major blow to your opponent's attack power. Lower armor than knights also makes dragons a more intelligent attack choice even when your opponent still owns a cleric.

My basic rule for dragon killing is, if I can't attack scouts or muds or clerics right now, and: 1. I have a knight side shot on a dragon, I will make it. 2. I have a scout side or front that won't put my scout in danger, I will make it.

Sometimes the point of attacking a dragon isn't to get the kill, but rather to force it to retreat, thus allowing you to go on the offense against more important units like cleric and scouts.

If a dragon puts itself near you with no supporting units, then do definitely ambush it with your knights, unless you have to do something more important like protecting your cleric or killing opponent cleric/scouts.

Frosts: Some players attack frosts much more aggressively than I do. I think some people are unreasonably afraid of them. Sure they are very powerful in the end game, but if you can get a good advantage before the endgame it won't matter if your opponent has a frost.

If the frost is on the opposite side, it is probably not worth attacking it (unless it freezes something) until you at least have a knight or a dragon nearby. Your scouts are better used to take out the cleric and flee.

If the frost is on same side, I still won't usually attack it early on unless it is already hurt from me breaking a freeze. It simply has too many hit points to focus on in early point of the game.

Realist
08-31-2006, 01:38 PM
Recovery strategy: Managing recovery intelligently is an important point in all game types, but it is especially necessary in antis and rushes.

A major mistake I see often even from pretty good anti and rush players is to not use the dragon enough. The dragon should generally be used on the turn it recovers from recovery. Obviously, if you can kill a cleric with your 1 hp scout adjacent to an enemy mud, you probably want to do that instead. But use dragons whenever reasonable. They simply deal too much damage to waste. Before you decide not to use a dragon when it is possible, think to yourself: Why am I not using my dragon? Would it put him at too much risk? Do I need to keep him as a deterrant to scouts? Do I have an essential move to make with a different unit? Is my dragon too far away? If you can't successfully answer yes to one of those questions, you probably want to use your dragon.

Plan recovery with this point in mind. Use your units so that scouts and clerics are recovering when dragons are not recovering and vice versa.

Wasting turns: If you use high recovery units often, and you should, then you want a way to reduce recovery without losing anything, or at least losing very little. This is another concept that separates great anti players from poorer ones. The most basic way of "wasting" turns is to heal, though of course sometimes you want to waste turns in order to heal. Healing severely reduces the damage an opponent can do to you in any specific turn and counterturn. What makes a heal a turn-waster is when you do it specifically to help one unit who would be using their attack that turn if they were out of recovery.

My favorite turn waster is the threat. Move a knight near a cleric to force your opponent to block it. Threatening a low hp scout also tend to work. Knights are the best anti units for threats because they have no movement recovery.

A dangerous turn waster is the forced freeze-break. Freeze an opponent to force an attack on your frost. This is most useful when your frost is at full hit point and you will heal soon after, and when the frozen unit is too important for the enemy to simply leave frozen.

Strategies for specific opposing forms:

Fighting same-side antis:

Dragon attack scouts. It is worth using a mud to finish a scout off even if it dooms the mud. Use knights to attack the enemy mud early on if you can, this is a great first turn. Save your scouts, protect your cleric; sacrifice scouts or muds to kill enemy cleric if you can. Use your knights efficiently; attack scouts muds or dragons with them when other units are in recovery or danger. Advance on your enemy while doing this, the more offensive player tends to win these games.

Fighting opposite-side antis:

Scout positioning is essential, try to get in range of cleric. If your opponent plays defensively and dragon attacks are too dangerous, advance with your knights. Use your knights to protect your scouts from attack as well as to threaten enemy. Cleric is your goal; if you can kill a cleric on opposite side and protect your own, the game is basically yours, especially if you have a surviving scout.

Fighting same-side rush:

"Same-side" in this case refers to the mud being on your cleric's side, not the clerics being on the same side. The big decision in fighting a rush with a good attacking position is whether to try to save or abandon your cleric. Not abandoning your cleric and then losing it anyways is the worst that can happen to you, so be ready to abandon it! Move your scouts out of the way of a mud bomb and into a place where they can threaten your opponent's cleric. You can still win without a cleric if you play right. Don't let the mud bomb you twice unless you can kill a scout or something in return.

If you lose your cleric and your opponent still has one, you will have to focus on killing units. Violating the no-early-knight-attack rule may be neccessary. Protecting your frost is a very nice luxury, but unlikely if your opponent knows what he or she is doing. Just make sure he loses more than he gains.

In an equal luck, equal skill match, a good-attack-side rush will beat an anti. In an equal luck, equal skill match, a bad-attack side rush will lose to an anti. However, I think a good-attack-side rush has a smaller advantage against an anti than an anti has on a bad-attack side rush, making the anti a generally better form. This is open to debate of course, I think good players use rushes and antis fairly evenly these days.

Fighting opposite-side turtles:

Some people claim that opposite-side turtles are anti-killers. I disagree, I tend to beat opposite-side turtles with my anti. Killing clerics is even more important than in opposite-side anti games. Your frost is an incredibly powerful unit on the defense because you will have numerical unit advantage. Attacking stoned knights and dragons seems pretty futile when your enemy has a cleric, and even muds are hard to deal with, so you pretty much need to be on the offensive, at least for some of the game. If you can kill one of their scouts and their mud, your frost dominates.

Wow, I never expected to write this much. I think I'm done for now. Let me end this by saying, long live the anti! It is a great set in its own right and is not deserving of the unfair criticisms it so often receives.

EmelGreenLeafer
08-31-2006, 01:58 PM
Sweet, this is very useful to me, since i only anti. I never knew realy how to reach my opponents cleric in a same side rush, cause i was allways afraid of my scouts dying, and allways retreated.

The strategy is to make my opponent go defensive so he has to pull all his units back to protect the cleric, leaving LOS shots. Most of my anti opponents don't care about their muddy or scouts, they just send them in not knowing how to realy use em.

shatterstar
08-31-2006, 02:10 PM
just..um...wow. this is going to be crazy useful. amazing job realist.

**adds to favorites next to Bot's grey guide**

zzzaacckk
08-31-2006, 02:28 PM
Great post Realist! A new great guide :)

bludhoundz
08-31-2006, 02:43 PM
This is very detailed guide to antis.

We should play.. last time you got to play my rush, I'd like to see how you play anti vs anti :)

Punishment
08-31-2006, 02:56 PM
Thanks for posting this realist, very informative

dab00z
08-31-2006, 06:45 PM
I like this guide as someone who only uses antis when he plays gold. I agree with you about opp side turts, they are beatable for sure if you position yourself right. It's the rushes with the mud on the right side that are killers against really good players.

powza
08-31-2006, 07:03 PM
Great post

The Coder
08-31-2006, 07:23 PM
Ill burn this to a disk and read it at the beachhouse. Seems good though.

meat.eater
08-31-2006, 11:31 PM
I'd like to add: thats a hybrid, not a true Anti. But, it is the most popular FPS form as of lately.

imagination
09-01-2006, 12:18 AM
even though at this point in time i really hate antis because they seem to be the usual form of everyone that plays tao anymore, i have to say that that was a very well written guide and very useful. I was actually thinking of making a basic gide to all forms, would you mind if i used parts of your in my own(referenced of course)

Geoffrey
09-01-2006, 03:52 AM
Great read real.

Match Strike
09-01-2006, 12:09 PM
I'd like to add: thats a hybrid, not a true Anti. But, it is the most popular FPS form as of lately.

Oh? Because of what? It's hardly a same side rush, with those scout positions. The only things that are really aggressively placed are dragon and mud, hardly a rush-like attack force.

bludhoundz
09-01-2006, 07:43 PM
Knights front row are no longer considered aggressive? :huh:

Match Strike
09-01-2006, 08:38 PM
Hardly. Only aggressive in the sense that they can immediately attack, say, a front row mud. Which is really just a preemptive defense. By your reasoning, a lightning ward front row is an aggressive piece. I think you've been turtling too much blud.

steve12
09-01-2006, 08:58 PM
Nice one Realist. Although my Anti-Rush is a little different (with one different unit), I use many of your strategies. When this pop-up thing stops, I'll rep you. Nice job!!!

_Darkness_
09-01-2006, 09:18 PM
Great post, this I think will help me a lot. Thanks a lot.

powza
09-02-2006, 12:08 AM
I tried your set on Rev. Worked quite well. Cheers

bludhoundz
09-02-2006, 09:28 AM
Hardly. Only aggressive in the sense that they can immediately attack, say, a front row mud. Which is really just a preemptive defense. By your reasoning, a lightning ward front row is an aggressive piece. I think you've been turtling too much blud.
Actually I haven't been turtling at all recently, but I hardly think front knights can be counted as being not offensive at all.

Match, I'm not saying a front row piece is automatically aggressive (LW is a horrible example too, it can't even move! how can it be aggressive?). However, a mobile powerhouse on the front row that can breach their wall if they move anything, and go straight for the support units isn't even 75% defensive in my opinion.

(the rest of this post is no longer directed towards Match Strike)

Antis went through a few phases.. in the first one, there would be scout (wall) knight dragon knight, knight and back a row, scout and back a row as the frontal unit wall.

In the second one everyone started frontlining all their units aside from cleric and frost (and maybe 1 more), and now, the third one, is a mixture between the two.

I think antis are more aggressive than they were before, and this is a good change, because it makes them more versatile.

Sluff
09-02-2006, 10:22 AM
Sexy. :cool:

Nice guide, Real.

Match Strike
09-05-2006, 01:57 AM
Actually I haven't been turtling at all recently, but I hardly think front knights can be counted as being not offensive at all.

Match, I'm not saying a front row piece is automatically aggressive (LW is a horrible example too, it can't even move! how can it be aggressive?). However, a mobile powerhouse on the front row that can breach their wall if they move anything, and go straight for the support units isn't even 75% defensive in my opinion.

But, aren't knights always used as walls up front? Either every form with knights is automatically aggressive, or you're wrong.

Guess which one I'm leaning towards?

And what do you mean Lightning Wards can't move? Are you saying you don't know their special "teleporxplosion" attack? Newb.

bludhoundz
09-05-2006, 05:55 AM
But, aren't knights always used as walls up front? Either every form with knights is automatically aggressive, or you're wrong.

Guess which one I'm leaning towards?

And what do you mean Lightning Wards can't move? Are you saying you don't know their special "teleporxplosion" attack? Newb.
Thats a pretty black and white view of it Match, there are shades of grey in between :p

First of all, you argue that if a knight is up front, and if thats an offensive position, that makes the whole formation offensive. In this case, you are the one who is wrong. One or two offensively placed pieces does not make the formation as a whole offensive. Say I frontlined a dragon and knight in a turtle form and used it in freestyle. Does that make it offensive? Hell no.

What I was saying before is that Realist's antirush can go on either offense or defense, as most can. You said that the mud and dragon were really the only offensively placed units; I beg to differ. I do not think the knights are an incredible threatening offensive force like a GA or DSM, but they can pack a punch, and they can take a hike into the other player's formation due to durability. If that isn't at least partially offensive, I don't know what is.

BTW, as for the last part of your post, I was not mentioning the "secret," because I didn't want EVERYONE ON THE GODDAMN GAME TO KNOW HOW THAT IT EXISTS!

Match Strike
09-05-2006, 12:23 PM
Can we say knights frontline are 65% defensive then?

bludhoundz
09-05-2006, 08:23 PM
The exact % doesn't really matter. It's enough that they can be used skillfully for offensive purposes.

Match Strike
09-05-2006, 10:37 PM
68.4%?

bludhoundz
09-06-2006, 05:33 AM
49.fjk24.3^8# %

imagination
09-06-2006, 07:15 PM
pc+1 ... i want to spam too!!!!:p ;)

The Archon
09-13-2006, 07:21 AM
Wow, great guide...
I think that scouts in back rows are not that great choice... of course, they're protected from Dragons, but I think it's easier to put them in front rows and then (in case of necessity) retreat than to put them in back rows and then move forward...

Bobcat
10-03-2006, 02:45 AM
One point Realist doesn't focus on is the position of units. Just like chess, the relative positions of units is usually more important than how many units you have. A muddy in the back is almost no threat. I often attack a muddy to just so my knight can move near the frosty and cleric. I would attack a dragon just to force it back.

Also about killing order, I would kill those who threatens me most. If my cleric is safe, I would place dragons in a higher priority than muddy, and maybe even scouts.

Garack
03-31-2008, 07:13 PM
Very imformative..... thank you for posting it.

The Anti
03-31-2008, 07:29 PM
Yes, great post and explanation there. I was really struggling with gold, but this will help me become a little better. Thanks Real.

Ol' Time
03-31-2008, 09:17 PM
Look at the dates, people.

The AIDS Virus
03-31-2008, 10:38 PM
Look at the dates, people.

Hush, this is funny.