playing the game to the bitter end

[FuzzyUndercling]

More than 2/3s of the time spent playing this game is wasted because the opponent doesn't finish the game.

The "oops I lost my cleric, well I will just quit and start another game" mindset is absurd.

I think that the opponent should at least admit defeat and surrender.

For those who don't, there should be a penalty.

How about this?

Players are allowed to exit from a game without surrendering 5 times per day. Any more than that, and a penalty of 2 games is assessed.

The next opponent to face the player with the penalty assessed will chose one unit to be paralyzed for the entire duration of 2 games.

Also the stats should be recorded as Win, Lose, Draw, Dropped. A decline combat button could be added to allow a player to refuse to play the person who can't finish a game.

[Sir Vilhelm]

You do know that if they leave in the middle of a game... it counts as surrendering and they get a loss while you get a win?

[FuzzyUndercling]

you get the stat, but you don't get to play the game.

I am not here to win, I am here to play.

I would rather lose every game, than win by forfiet.

If they can't lose with dignity, they should get two games for unsportsmanlike conduct.

This isn't a thread about cheating, but if every online gamer could be big enough to admit defeat then there would be no market for hacks.

C'mon people, just face the fact that you will win AND lose in this (and every other) game.

[Ahab]

*sigh* once again...

It's fine if a player, upon realizing the game is lost, resigns; in fact, it's preferable to 'playing it out to the bitter end.'

For example, in chess you don't make your opponent chase your pieces all over the board. The gallant man resigns rather than put his opponent through all that.

I personally get really ticked off when ppl do that, and I ask them to plz resign.

I suppose I'm too old to waste time screwin around hehe...

[Ri'Orius]

Aye, I agree with Ahab in that it's usually nicer if they save you the trouble of the bitter end; I'd rather play the first, more interesting part than the final mop-up.

Also note that if someone is disconnected by the swear filter, a server hiccup, or a connection hiccup, it disconnects them and sends that message. And that message will only come up, as far as I know, if you close the window--why would someone close the window and thus have to re-load the game instead of just holding on Surrender if they plan to play again? I think you're overestimating how many of those people who are disconnected did it intentionally, and those who did probably had to go eat dinner or something, and hence closed what they were doing.

[FuzzyUndercling]

A great many players quit when they still have 2 or 3 or (even more) pieces on the board, and may be down by only 1 piece.

I have had many games that fight the first 2 or 3 units, and then its over. Yay, I win.

To play a complete game, why must I be forced to start 5 or 6 games?

The greatest games (in sports) are the ones where the outcome was impossible to predict. The underdog pulls out a last second play and wins the game.

But what would happen if superbowl teams, stanley cup teams, world series teams (go ahead, pick a sport) quit when things looked grim?

Chessmasters only concede defeat when they can see the moves that result in victory and there is no way to stop it. But there is no random element to chess.

A well timed block or two can turn the tide of the battle, but not if you quit.

But more on topic: you are talking about surrendering, I am talking about just disconnecting. If both sides agree that the game is over, then fine. But if you leave because your cleric was killed and you didn't like that, then you are unsportsmanlike.

[BKoT]

This thread seems to have gotten turned around to the topic of fighting right to the end, but that's not how it started. While it's true that if, in endgame, one player is left with a only a cleric and the other has only a knight, the game is over. It could take as many as 4 or 5 full turns just to end the game. If the player with the cleric chooses to just drop there, fine. No point in delaying the inevitable (although an actual "surrender" shows better sportsmanship than just disconnecting.)


Now, my comments on the original message are in line with Fuzzy. I've also played more matches than I can count where, because of the starting positions and coin flip, the opposing player's cleric ends up getting wiped out by my DMW in the very first move. ::click:: Disconnect.

Sure, it's a free win, but there wasn't any point in it. I've won many matches without the backup of my cleric. He's good to have around but winning or losing the match doesn't hinge on him.

So I agree. If someone has a habit of immediately bolting long before the match reaches endgame, they should be penalized. And, in order to cover disconnects from chat that triggers the fliter or network problems, the disconnect count is just reset every hour or two.
Second, both player stats should be displayed on the screen once the match screen comes up, regardless of the hidden switch or no. (Personally, I don't understand the purpose of hiding the stats at all, unless you're just hiding the fact that you're artificially inflating your stats by cheating.) Then, once the match starts, there is a period of time where either player has the option of backing out of the match gracefully, without a win or loss being recorded to either player.

Say, a newbie grey accidentally connects to a high ranking gold. That player should have the option of backing out without penalty, but if they agree to start the match and then just disconnect before endgame, they have a drop-game tick added to their stats.

[AzN_GuY]

As far as hiding stats go:

I just dont want to be judged on my stat count. Play me or dont. I'm a gold, that's enough to tell you that I probably have units that greys dont. Beyond my troop composition, I dont see how stats are gonna influence the game too much. I suppose that I play differently against people who challenge me and turn out to be 0-0-4, but that's generally to help them...

iono, the only thing i see stats as potentially doing is making you lose faith in your ability to play... I suppose I say this from my own view though... since I have in general done fairly well.

[Punishment Co.]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by AzN_GuY
iono, the only thing i see stats as potentially doing is making you lose faith in your ability to play... I suppose I say this from my own view though... since I have in general done fairly well. /QUOTE]

I agree with u right there, guy.

[Punishment Co.]

Originally posted by AzN_GuY
iono, the only thing i see stats as potentially doing is making you lose faith in your ability to play... I suppose I say this from my own view though... since I have in general done fairly well. [/B]

I agree with u right there, guy.

someone teach me how to quote properly >_<

[Choi]

IMHO the idea of giving a penalty to someone that exits to the lobby or disconnects is rediculous. Exiting to the lobby is exactly the same as surrender as far as I can see. Closing your browser to disconnect is sleazy, but there is no way for the server to know that it wasn't a computer crash or communications disconnect.

[canopus]

If you want

1) a challenging game
2) to play to the end, or at least until an actual surrender

I have a simple solution:

dont play noobies!

Play people you have a track record with, play other good players!!
This is whats going to make the game fun or everyone.

something else that helps: if you happen to play someone you dont know, talk to them and agree that you are not going to quit without saying something.

Mention to them that even if it is obvious that they will lose, continuing is more practice for both of you and will help both players win more future games.

You can't expect to win every game and you will learn more losing games to better players than winning against noobs.

Other that this, if noobs jump you and then quit after 1 turn, they are wasting your time but you get the win, eh, and have more time to play someone challenging.

-canopus the canard
:cool:

[Shaman]

It is sometimes hard to avoid that when you sit a tile and someone joins you.

The sad part is that these people just dont realize that you can learn while losing. If someone is better than you, watch how they move against you and what combo's they use. They are better than you, so learn from them.

[BKoT]

Originally posted by Choi
IMHO the idea of giving a penalty to someone that exits to the lobby or disconnects is rediculous. Exiting to the lobby is exactly the same as surrender as far as I can see. Closing your browser to disconnect is sleazy, but there is no way for the server to know that it wasn't a computer crash or communications disconnect.


Right. There's no possible way for the server to know whether a user dropped because of a bad network connection (or modem drops for 56k users), or PC crash, or if the user intentionally closed the browser.
Which is why I mentioned in my above post that the disconnect count would be reset every two hours or so. If your network is so bad that you drop 4 times in two hours, there are other things you should be worried about. Like why you're paying good $$ for a lousy connection.

N00b or not, you want to always wuss out of a match? Fine. Just realize that you'll be penalized if you do it too often.

Which is why, along with this feature, another one should be built as well. If you join a match and find you're way overmatched, you have a grace period, allowing you to back out of the match without a loss added to your stats.

Those two items alone would cut the number of people whining about people not finishing matches in a big way and both seem like they would be very easy to implement.

[Aenarion]

Ummmm . . .

If I am reading this thread correctly you guys are complaining about people quitting by pressing the red X instead of the the White Flag. Unless you have some weird obsession with Dito then who cares. It is still a surrender. Their penalty is the fact that they have to reload the Game screen. There is even the possibility that they are a newb and don't know how to surrender. I had 2 people ask me how to quit/surrender earlier today.

In all actuality I would rather play a new game then stretch out a game and win feeling like the one of the main reasons I won was that they were retarted and Gave me easy acces to their Cleric with my witch.

It is their choice to play or not. Some like the challenge and some don't. I play with two clerics and earlier today I walked them both over into trap and they got blasted by my opponents witch. I thought it would be fun to try and play without them cause I find myself to be way too dependant upon them. Lo and behold I won with an amazing offense and a bit of luck(I love it when my witch blocks a knight from the side).:D

[Snork]

I'd rather take a win from somebody leaving than playing out a game with a staller that makes the game take an hour.

The other day, I go into a game with a guy. He tells me, "I'm gonna stall until you get mad and quit"
Oh. Goody......

But I outlasted him for the win. :)

[FuzzyUndercling]

You say: I feel like the only reason I beat them is they made a poor move. (OK, you said retarded but I would prefer to leave that part out).

Then you go on to say that you made a poor move and continued to play anyway. You even went on to win!

Why did you continue to play?
Didn't you just say that you would rather start a new game?

Shouldn't your point here have been that fighting to the bitter end, especially when the game looks lost, can sometimes result in a very satisfying victory?

On the other hand, you may get your !@#$ handed to you anyway.

Either way, you should be able to tell who is more fun to play against; The player who hits "reset" whenever the game goes a bit against them or the player who plays the game to an appropriate end.

(I agree that the stall tactic is equally unsportsmanlike, worse even.)

[Aenarion]

RE-read my post.

I was simply saying that for those who are not up to the challenge of playing out a full game after they think the have lost then it is fine for them to press X or the White Flag. My main point was that this threaad was silly at the beggining because people were complaining about people disconnecting/dropping if they started losing instead of surrendering. It is the same thing. That's what I was trying to get through.

I on the other hand continued to play because I love the challenge and I saw it as a huge test for myself. This was when I was on the receiving end of the early beatdown.

When I had just taken out their cleric and dealt damage to other vital pieces then If someone wants to leave I have no problem with it. If they stay it will most likely be a massacre anyways, especially since I use two clerics. My point here is that I would rather start a new game then be like: "HA, TOTAL DOMINATION! I OWN YOU!"

Oh and by the way, I said retarted because that Is how I felt when I lined both of my clerics up for a witch attack. It was one of those you see it and then ya look around for a different move and then you check back and you forget why It was that you didn't move there in the first place. Then they take their turn and you go ohhh yea. Well I'm a frickin' moron. I should bang my head on the keyboard. :rolleyes:

[FuzzyUndercling]

Fighting you would be fun, because win or lose we would both fight with dignity. No whining about losing a piece or two. Give your best, and take your lumps. Thats what this thread is supposed to be about.

Leaving in the middle of the game is just like walking away in the middle of a conver

[Snork]

Even if you're losing, you shouldn't give up.
You might be able to make a comeback.
The person that wants you to give up doesn't respect the game enough to play it fully, they only want a win.

[Aenarion]

I don't want people to give up, but I understand and accept the fact that there are a lot of people who don't enjoy looking impossible odds in the face and trying to continue on. I would rather not continue playing those people because I enjoy chatting during the game and they are not very fun to talk to.

I was playing a Gold earlier and I was getting the crap kicked out of me. The whole time we were chatting and I was like oh yea well I at least killed two of your units so HA! I thought it was so much fun. Most people probably wouldn't.