The Guild

[AlabamaBoy]

The Guild is a gathering of monks and saints who are in three differant branches, Earth, Sky, Ocean, they each master these elemental forces, and become more adept with each new experiance.

Human Spellcasters

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Earth Master

Health: 50

Power: 0

Blocking: 20%

Armor: 0

Movement: 4

Range: N/A

Recovery:
3, 5 if focus ability is used.

Abilities: The Earth Master starts the game with a two turn wait. When the Earth Master goes into focus all un ocupied tiles in the middle two strips sink into the earth and become impassable.

The Earth Master stays in focus for 2 turns, then has a five turn wait.

Bonds of the Earth, the Earth master can trap a unit in rock shackles for 2 turn and has a three turn wait, the unit can still attack, but cannot move. The same unit cannot be targeted again unless it has moved. The rock shackles deal the units max wait damage times two to the creature.

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Sky Master (the Sky MAster's attacks cannot break focus)

Health: 45

Power: 5

Blocking: 40%

Armor: 8

Movement: 3

Range: 8

Recovery: 3, focus recovery is 1

Abilities: Falling Heavens, The Sky Master deals five unreduced damage to a unit within its range, all units [including yours] adjacent to the target take 5.

Gust: In the direction that the skymaster is facing already, you may put the Sky master into focus on a target in front of him, [unlimited range] and push the unit away from the Sky Master one tile per Turn.

You may Target Friendly Units as well.
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Sea Master

Health: 75

Power: 0

Blocking: 0

Armor: 0

Movement: 3

Range: 1

Recovery: 4

Abilities:
Summon the Sea [focus ability] All Tiles on the back row of your side that are un ocupied become water, every two turns you select another tile for the sea to occupy, must be adjacent to already existing ocean, In addition a Sea Monster spawns from the ocean every three turns [ if one is already in play this effect is negated].

Resilliance, It takes two hits to break the Sea Master's focus, once his focus is broken he has 3 turns to regain his focus or the sea drains away. The sea can take up a maximun of 15 tiles. The sea master has two degrees of focus, once the first is broken he cannot summon the monsters.

Sea Monster-
health- 18
power- 15, unblockable
blocking- 0
movement- 3
recovery- 1
range- 2
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Comments and critisisms are welcome.

[bloodreign]

You have Sea monsters, Sea masters, all you need to finish this set is Seamen.

[AlabamaBoy]

Id neg you, but I love you too much. :-P

Now that you have that out of your sytem, what do you think?

[scb]

Earth Master: Underpowered. Its primary ability is only good at the start of the game (to stop rushes), but the 2-turn wait both prevents that and violates the rule of starting waits. Also, its use of focus makes its second ability worse than the frost golem's.

Sky Master: Overpowered. It is a juiced-up pyromancer, with higher defense in every respect (its toughness is comparable to that of a scout). The range of 8 + 1 (pyro pattern) gives him an insane reach of 12, non-LOS and almost un-retaliatable. It's the ultimate focus breaker, an effective cleric killer and a decent all-around damager. The second ability is not only overpowered but a violation of important principles. In general, you should never be able to move the opponent's units; in particular, one tile per turn will effectively neutralize many units. Can the units move out of it?

Sea Master: Overpowered. The expendable Sea Monsters are too hard to stop (the summoning of I mean), and their attacks are still effective. They also stick around after the Sea Master dies, creating an almost endless source of weak units.

Also, the "big, friendly" text drives me nuts. Use ordinary, thin, efficient-looking text.

All of these abilities have been done before, so I'm not going to try to tweak them to be interesting. Inevitably they will become exact copies of things I or others (or both) have made.

[AlabamaBoy]

Not Undpowered, this has alot of strategic possibility.

Not Overpowered, max it can deal to something is 10. You are right about one aspect though and ill make an edit,the unit can walk out of the gust. it doesnt freeze it.

The Seamonster is weak, it can be killed by just about anything. Also all you have to do is break the focus of the Sea master.

And your last comment was not constructive it has been disregarded.

[bloodreign]

I personaly like the EARTHMASTER we need holes and bottomless pits, a created obstacle that an opponent cannot destroy! it's a cool idea because scouts and ranged units could still attack over it/ teleporting units could zoom over the crevace! i like this concept most of all.

[The Coder]

Whats the point of the oceans?
Isn't the earthmaster +1 to furgon?
Isn't the skymaster a weakened mud golem?

[AlabamaBoy]

The Oceans extend the reach of the Sea Monster spawn point, and can close of the back area of the board from cleric rushing forces.

Earth Master's attacks are not permanant and his attacks are focused based.

The Sky master has better range and the gust ability is where it finds true strategic strentgh, in addition considering the sky master can deal its damage from a safer location than the mud, the fact its unreducted, and the fact that the attack is chain based rather than automatic makes it quite a differant unit.

[scb]

9 range non-LOS? That's overpowered even with a power of one. Think focus nullification. Your opponent would never be able to keep stone. Just put the Sky Master directly in front of the cleric, or put it two steps in font and back away after attacking.

The Earth Master is a bit less clear, but focus invulnerable barrier has been suggested before. I see it as not very useful because the high starting wait takes it out of the running protecting against rushes, while middlegame the ability is too hard to control and won't accomplish much nine times out of ten, since you can't move it around. The other ability is inferior to that of the frost golem, and they must be considered separately because only one can be used at a time. Here's my suggestion to make it more powerful: Allow choosing a target tile for the effect, and the blocking effect goes in the row and column of the target tile. A unit caught on the target tile cannot move, even if it is a teleporter, but can still attack. That combines the abilities into one, cleaning it up (most units should not have two abilities, and while it's OK for some it's used far too often).

As for the Sea Master, you've made it insanely hard to break his focus. The sea monsters are going to keep coming. Also, you didn't say they died when the Sea Master lost focus. So, unless the opponent can get a very focused assault in (more than just killing the cleric, stopping the Sea Master will take about 4 attacks), you have endless expendable pyromancer punches. The range makes them an effective focus-breaker at no risk. They will draw away knights that need to be doing other things, since they don't die in a scout shot. Hmmm, is that overpowered? I'm not so sure anymore. I'd like to say yes by virtue of the wimpy pyromancer, but I'm not sure that isn't the pyromancer's fault.

The Sea Master's blocking-back-row ability is very powerful, and makes the vulnerable units (including himself, although he's harder to shut down than the stone golem) much safer. Since it's simultaneous with the spawning, they count together, and defense with expendable offense is very strong. Good original idea (the combination impenetrable barrier + summoner is new), but I think it's too powerful. Not as clearly as the Sky Master, though; I used a rule for that one.

[AlabamaBoy]

Sky Master cant break focus.

The Variety gives the Earth Master his strength.

And I have edited the sea monster, it has 18 rather than 19 health now, so it is scout killable.

[scb]

I still don't like them, but I've run out of things to complain about. Oh well, good job I guess.

[AlabamaBoy]

Either way I appreciate the feedback scb, It lets me put more thought into how to make the units more balanced.

[CRX687]

earthmaster - I like it... preventing an opponent from moving is a great mechanic, though personally, i would give that second attack a range of 3 (no LOS) or something. It also needs a way to do at least a nominal amount of damage as it is nowhere nearly as potent as frosty... hence I would make that move do 4 damage... wisp is immune.


Skymaster - WAY overpowered... it makes furgons obsolete and it an amazing cleric killer. this thing's like busher x ten because it's even effective 1 on 1. Just the first ability alone makes it overpowered.


oceanmaster- anything that summons an infinite amount of other units is overpowered. Even if those serpents are killable in one hit, they still take up your opponent's turns... in which none of your actual units are damaged... I've made a unit similar to this before, the way to balance this, IMO, is to connect the summoned unit's health with the seamaster's... i.e. serpent has 24HP, when the serpent takes damage, so does the seamaster.

[AlabamaBoy]

I just had an idea, alright, the sea master has two degrees of focus, when he is fully focused he can summon the sea monsters, when his first degree of focus is broken then he only has the power to increase the sea, [no monsters] and considering they only spawn every three turns and are one hit killable they are not that strong.

Ill also make an edit on the sky master where the chain effect only does an additional five, not ten.

And for the Earth Master's creature trap, whateverthe max wait of a creature has it takes that many [reducted] times two.

[scb]

The reason I didn't make the same complaint as CRX is that while the opponent would be wasting turns by killing them, he doesn't really have to until you have wasted a turn by moving them to an important position. Since you can only have one on the field at a time, it doesn't quite make up for the unit slot the Sea Master takes up. Now, what's this about increasing sea? If the water can block off more than just the back row, he is way overpowered because two levels of seawater will completely protect him and a few other units from knights.

I forgot about furgons, but I don't think he will be much better than a pyromancer for fighting furgons, due to his wait time. He's weak enough, though; this complaint is along the lines of the focus breaking, in that 1 damage is too much. I think he needs a worse attack pattern - maybe he doesn't hit the target tile, just the tiles around it.

And, good job making the earthmaster stronger, but I don't think attack power should be based on the target's maximum wait time. How about basing it on current wait time, i.e. 5*current wait?

[AlabamaBoy]

There is little chance he will have the opportunity to give himself that much cover.

[scb]

No, the first time he selects a second tile for the sea to occupy, he can protect himself from knights. Two more shots (not infeasible in a turtle game) he has himself protected from dragon shots or has protected the cleric and stone golem from melee. As the game progresses, he will become a super furgon with single-targetting invincible walls. Too powerful if you can stall for a while, i.e. in turtle games. And the summoning makes him still a decent fighter, especially since the spreading ocean will put the summoned units in important spots. Therefore, I think he's too powerful with the spreading ocean.

[AlabamaBoy]

Alright.

After a series of 15 turns, he goes into a 15 turn wait, while the sea recedes in the exact same order per turn it was summoned.

[scb]

Sounds weird but it works. It would make turtle games cyclic - each side is invincible for 15 turns, resulting in a skirmish on the front lines, then eac hside is vulnerable for 15 turns, resulting in deep assaults. If one side gets off-beat, the game will switch back and forth as to who's on the offensive. I like it. :)

[AlabamaBoy]

Alright.

After a series of 15 turns, he goes into a 15 turn wait, while the sea recedes in the exact same order per turn it was summoned.

[CRX687]

The reason I didn't make the same complaint as CRX is that while the opponent would be wasting turns by killing them, he doesn't really have to until you have wasted a turn by moving them to an important position. Since you can only have one on the field at a time, it doesn't quite make up for the unit slot the Sea Master takes up. Now, what's this about increasing sea? If the water can block off more than just the back row, he is way overpowered because two levels of seawater will completely protect him and a few other units from knights.


But the thing is, you have a unit who's loss basically means nothing while your opponent might have to put a unit, usually a scout, in jeopardy to kill it.

In other words, you have an attacking force that cannot be done away it. It's not going to be the only unit advanced.

However weak of an attacker it is, the oceanmaster is an attacking unit that does not put itself in jeopardy when it advances to attack. That's overpowered.

[AlabamaBoy]

This unit can be killed with anything but a pyromancer.