Domestic Abuse

[Jaymee_]

This is an issue that affects more lives than most people realize. I think it would make for a good discussion.

An example of domestic abuse: A couple is seperated.

The man comes to the woman's residence wanting to reconcile the relationship.

The woman does not wish to make up with him.

She tells him to go home and leave her alone. The guy proceeds to continueiously bang on her door and yell her name untill she opens the door and goes outside to talk to him.

Things get heated fast and the guy grabs her arm. She pulls away and he refuses to let go. She attemps to push him away, but he refuses to let go of her.

In her struggle to get free she pushes him towards the entryway to her front porch. He stumbles but does not fall. In retaliation he slaps her across the face.


Here is my question.. whose fault is it the woman got slapped?

She pushed him first. I think it's a pretty natural reaction to lash out when someone threatens you.

On the other hand.. she was trying to get him to let go of her arm.

Please discuss.

[Snork]

Your question is totally ridiculous.

The woman was defending herself.
She didn't start anything.
He instigated a violent confrontation from the moment he showed up.

The lady is not at fault in any way, she is a victim of physical and emotional abuse.
It is time the police got involved.
I hope she gets the help she needs.

[Snork]

I'm sorry Jay, didn't mean to sound like I was attacking your opinion.

I'm just sick of people thinking women that are abused deserve it.
Women are conditioned to think it.
They deserve better, and they have to realize it.
And people shouldn't be treating them like that, and convincing them it's ok and they deserve it.

I just think women should be treated with respect and dignity, and not forced to be the victim of not only abuse, but of thinking they deserved it.

I like you.

[Apocalypse0375]

Clearly the guy is an alchohalic so maybe if he didn't drink as much or didn't do steriods the situation wouldnt have got as "heated" as it did...maybe...

[Jaymee_]

It was just an example, Snork. I haven't stated my opionon yet.. just a couple options.

[Snork]

It was just an example, Snork. I haven't stated my opionon yet.. just a couple options.

I still like you.

[bloodreign]

"Men" with these kind of control issues need psychiatric help.

Even when a couple is "separated" <<---funny term, unfunny issue, there is no need for the man to BANG ON THE DOOR LIKE A f*&*^%ING MORON!
you are not 8 years old and your brother locked you out of the house because he got home first from lunch.

I have seen this countless times before, and the behaviour like you OWN someone is pathetic, my sister was mm away from death (literaly) because her poor cheating drug using boyfriend thought he owned her, so he haunted her and haunted her and tried to get back with her, and when they gave in and invited him over for dinner he tried to kill her! in the f(**ing kitchen, just after my mom's cooked spagetti dinner for them! the baby was there, my moms woulda got killed, the baby (5 months old) woulda got killed, and my sister had her throat slashed and was mm away from death, i was not there but if i had have been i think it may have gotten veeeery ugly.

Nuff said, the man in that situation needs to take a step back and re-asses his behavior, it is quite possible that he did her wrong, it seems like he needs to "explain himself" to her.

Very few men have been role models for me, very few.
Drunks, kid beaters,wife cheatewrs, liars , thieves..... :fire:
but i'm all good

[johannhowitzer]

bloodreign, somehow you seem to know what a Man should be, despite having no real-life examples. Good for you.

When I think of what a Man should be, I usually refer to the model of knighthood. Knights were true men, not because they wielded swords, but because they championed noble causes and treated other (including women) with respect. Have any of you read the code of chivalry? It's a veritable fountain of manhood. Your typical guy today isn't a man, he's a sex-crazed animal stocked full with rude jokes, bodily humor, and an imposing ego.

I'm a man, and sometimes these "men," even the non-controlling ones, disgust me and make me ashamed of my gender. I mean, come on, have some respect, if only for yourself!

[AlabamaBoy]

You're thinking of the ideal knight.

Knights in the middle ages were murderers, rapists, and for hire by wealthy land owners for protection.

But if you live by the proper code of ethecs, bravo.

Not to be a jerk or anything.

I just like history... to be... correctly quoted.

[johannhowitzer]

I think you knew what I meant, since I mentioned the code of chivalry... but yes, you're right. And that did occur to me while I was posting.

[Poop Slinger]

Cases like this happen every day and its a shame what some woman go through. I know this story of a couple that was going through a rough time. They were never physically abusive.. but verbally.. and one night they were going at it.. and she said "Fine.. you wanna get divorced.. lets just do it"

He became so enraged he pushed her down and then actually held her head over a pot of boiling water.. Trying to get him to stop she reached for whatever she could get her hands on.. and it was the saran wrap box.. She hit him with it 5-7 times and cut him with the razor on his face and arms..

She calls 911 and reports it. They send an ambulance and squads to her house.. and after some discussion.. The husband stays there and the wife goes to jail for the night..... What is wrong with that? Silly justice system.. it wasn't keeping her or her kids safe by HER staying in jail...

[Jeffery]

This is an issue that affects more lives than most people realize. I think it would make for a good discussion.

An example of domestic abuse: A couple is seperated.

The man comes to the woman's residence wanting to reconcile the relationship.

The woman does not wish to make up with him.

She tells him to go home and leave her alone. The guy proceeds to continueiously bang on her door and yell her name untill she opens the door and goes outside to talk to him.

Things get heated fast and the guy grabs her arm. She pulls away and he refuses to let go. She attemps to push him away, but he refuses to let go of her.

In her struggle to get free she pushes him towards the entryway to her front porch. He stumbles but does not fall. In retaliation he slaps her across the face.


Here is my question.. whose fault is it the woman got slapped?

She pushed him first. I think it's a pretty natural reaction to lash out when someone threatens you.

On the other hand.. she was trying to get him to let go of her arm.

Please discuss.
In that instance, the police would arrest the man, since he physically hit her.


Clearly the guy is an alchohalic so maybe if he didn't drink as much or didn't do steriods the situation wouldnt have got as "heated" as it did...maybe...

There was no mention of alcohol. Don;t be presumptuous. There are many people out there with clear anger problems that have nothing to do with alcohol.
Cases like this happen every day and its a shame what some woman go through. I know this story of a couple that was going through a rough time. They were never physically abusive.. but verbally.. and one night they were going at it.. and she said "Fine.. you wanna get divorced.. lets just do it"

He became so enraged he pushed her down and then actually held her head over a pot of boiling water.. Trying to get him to stop she reached for whatever she could get her hands on.. and it was the saran wrap box.. She hit him with it 5-7 times and cut him with the razor on his face and arms..

She calls 911 and reports it. They send an ambulance and squads to her house.. and after some discussion.. The husband stays there and the wife goes to jail for the night..... What is wrong with that? Silly justice system.. it wasn't keeping her or her kids safe by HER staying in jail...

The issue here is physical evidence. She claimed her head was held over a pot of boiling water. Without proof, the police can not take action. Whereas the man DID have an injury.



Domestic violence in general is not always as cut and dry as people think it is. I have seen many cases where a wife will slap and smack a husband continuously. But then the one time he pushes her away, and she falls, he gets arrested.
Luckily the DV laws in many places have changed to be more an equal opportunity arrest. Early on, if the police got called, it was ALWAYS the guy who got arrested, no matter what happened. Now most police departments are trained to look for physical signs of claimed attacks.

Is it perfect, no. But it is better than the old "arrest now, question later".


Now, moving on to the topic of people in long term abusive relationships.....

Sure, the abuser is a primary blame. If they simply weren;t abusive, the situation would not keep recurring. But there is also the "get out" factor. Why is it that so many people who are abused are so scared to get away from the person? I've known women who have had their husbands arrested 3 or 4 times for DV. And yet they then go to court and testify that it was a "misunderstanding" and try and get him freed so he can be home again.

This is actually one of the reasons that, in Ohio, if someone is charged with DV, and the person who was abused wants to drop the charges, the state can pick them up and continue the case.

[magtan]

ok i know i might be the youngest male here posting... but i dont care.

I know wat domestic abuse feels like a s a child because i watch it happen all the time with my foster parents. It always starts off with a minor disagreement and than turns into a heated agruement. than hands and objects start flying. i am not trying to say the Jeff is wrong but in all the cases i have seen at my home and sometimes near where i live (bad ghettos) it is usually the female that gets hauled into jail. I watch my mom defend herself all the time and shes always the one to be taken to jail for the night.

In my mind a real "man" is one who takes responsibilty for his actions no matter what the circumstances are. If he makes a mistake her takes all the consequences. He gives ALL people respect especially females, even if they dont like them. Males should ALWAYS respect the ladies and never lay a hand on them what so eva. Also i agree with the Code of Chivalry where there are some main rules men have to follow.

[uniquinous]

Your question is totally ridiculous.

The woman was defending herself.
She didn't start anything.
He instigated a violent confrontation from the moment he showed up.

The lady is not at fault in any way, she is a victim of physical and emotional abuse.
It is time the police got involved.
I hope she gets the help she needs.Agreed, tho I like the thread topic on this one, Jaymie

You're thinking of the ideal knight.
Knights in the middle ages were murderers, rapists, and for hire by wealthy land owners for protection.

I just like history... to be... correctly quoted.you took the words out of my mouth

She calls 911 and reports it. They send an ambulance and squads to her house.. and after some discussion.. The husband stays there and the wife goes to jail for the night..... What is wrong with that? Silly justice system.. it wasn't keeping her or her kids safe by HER staying in jail...In many cases such as those, the men don't necessarily want to harm the children. Understand that these instances of rage generally aren't premeditated. The police came - I'm sure he calmed down by then, and one of the two catalysts were removed. As Jeffery said, they can only go on evidence, and *someone* had to be removed.

Now, moving on to the topic of people in long term abusive relationships.....

This is actually one of the reasons that, in Ohio, if someone is charged with DV, and the person who was abused wants to drop the charges, the state can pick them up and continue the case.
Interesting - I didn't know that about Ohio - that's pretty good! But I agree... I don't understand the "BUT I LOVE HIM!" plea, exactly. However anyone that's been in a long term relationship and a fight knows the feeling, to a much lesser extent.

Disclaimer: hippy cheesiness ensues!
There's this one song I really love for the new little meanings I continually find in the lyrics:
So let's burn the furniture
To see how angry a fire could make me

...

Now let's break the smoke alarm
To see how scared locked windows'll make me
The first part speaks to me of arguing in a relationship - people purposely fueling a fire, and that the reactionary emotion is anger. But later he "breaks the smoke alarms" (he crossed the line, went too far, no turning back point). Now suddenly all that anger is turning to fear. Now suddenly that fire he was purposely fueling he doesn't WANT to burn anymore - he doesn't want to lose the relationship. His emotions, in the middle of the blaze, turn back on themselves, and suddenly he wants to save things.

This is exactly what's seen in the abuse situations. The fire (loss of relationship) scares the hell out of people. Also the song goes on to say how people tend to only remember the good parts when they want to save relationships.

I don't much like most of his other songs, but for those of you interested, check out The Longer That I'm Out Here (http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendID=58700375).

Alternately, if you can find it, watch the short film "And then Everything I Saw I Liked"

[SomethingStinks]

Am I in danger of becoming a domestic abuser?

Everytime someone makes a thread like this I want to reach through cyberspace and stab them in the face.

[uniquinous]

i dont think that would be domestic violence, i think that would just be considered assault, and impossible.

[AlabamaBoy]

Am I in danger of becoming a domestic abuser?

Everytime someone makes a thread like this I want to reach through cyberspace and stab them in the face.


Um... that is so ironic, I won't even.... uhg.

[Poop Slinger]

... wait what... You want to attack teh person that is curious about what we consider abuse...? That makes absolutely no sense...

And Uni and Jeff .. I do understand physic evidence is all they have to go on... so I know why.. but its like the whole he said she said regarding the other.. But they just need to be seperated for the night.. there was no reason she needed to go to jail. The other thing I failed to mention on that was that it was her place... and he he kinda already moved out.. and they have a child together.. so he got to stay in her house with teh kid while she spent the night in jail.. kinda crappy.

[SomethingStinks]

... wait what... You want to attack teh person that is curious about what we consider abuse...? That makes absolutely no sense...

And Uni and Jeff .. I do understand physic evidence is all they have to go on... so I know why.. but its like the whole he said she said regarding the other.. But they just need to be seperated for the night.. there was no reason she needed to go to jail. The other thing I failed to mention on that was that it was her place... and he he kinda already moved out.. and they have a child together.. so he got to stay in her house with teh kid while she spent the night in jail.. kinda crappy.

Did I misunderstand the original post? I took it as the guy whining because he was the @$$ involved in the violence and was seeking our sympathy. My comment was then misunderstood. I was saying I'd like to kick the guy's ass who did this crap. Thanks for the red boxes...

[Poop Slinger]

You did misundertand... girl/woman (jaymee_) is speaking about what if a guy does this and here is how something could have happened.. how is it the girls fault...

your misunderstanding.. lead to my misunderstanding.. I apologize..

[Jeffery]

... wait what... You want to attack teh person that is curious about what we consider abuse...? That makes absolutely no sense...

And Uni and Jeff .. I do understand physic evidence is all they have to go on... so I know why.. but its like the whole he said she said regarding the other.. But they just need to be seperated for the night.. there was no reason she needed to go to jail. The other thing I failed to mention on that was that it was her place... and he he kinda already moved out.. and they have a child together.. so he got to stay in her house with teh kid while she spent the night in jail.. kinda crappy.
Unless the laws there are like Ohio, and require someone be detained upon a DV call.

As for residence, residence laws often say that even if someone is acknowledged as just "staying there" then they have legal residence for DV purposes.

[Poop Slinger]

Thats interesting.. I can understand that I mean you see evidence of something physical taking place.. you have to seperate somehow.. I know in Illinios if its just a reported DD not DV that you are asked to leaved.. this took place in Indiana... but eh.. I don't know the laws about it.. I can understand why.. I just really felt for both of them. (good friends) I'll probably get yelled at for speaking of it.. since they don't anymore..

[johannhowitzer]

magtan... everything you describe there, taking responsibility and all that, is contained in the Code of Chivalry.

[Anarchy_United]

Clearly the guy is an alchohalic so maybe if he didn't drink as much or didn't do steriods the situation wouldnt have got as "heated" as it did...maybe...

yah, thats right, just like all people on internet forums are fat old guys in their 40's with no life and pretend they are younger.

[Poop Slinger]

Whats your point..... :(

[Jaymee_]

I know a girl that was dragged out of her truck by her hair, thrown down in the middle of the street and her husband proceeded to choke her. She grabbed the first thing she could get her hands on.. it happened to be a screw driver that fell out of the truck with her. She struck her husband with it and was arrested for attempted murder.

Two days later the charges were dropped to a misdemeanor of domestic violence. The reason why? Bruises appeared all over her body. It was obvious she was defending herself but she refused to admit it.

Why won't she admit it? She was convienced that if she had just left him alone it would have never happened. The guy had destroyed her self worth so badly she honestly thought she didn't deserve any better.

Since this happened, the girl has left her husband and is now seeking help with the right people.

My point is.. the guy was never arrested. The pyhsical evidence was there, but there was no arrest. The state this happened in also has that law.. the state will pick up the charges. My friend sat in jail for two weeks for defending herself.

[uniquinous]

and yet the law prevailed and she's out of jail and the jackass is going to be charged, yes?

[Jaymee_]

No, he was never charged with anything. They ended up getting back together and she lived with him for four more years before she finally left him.

[uniquinous]

what can I say? your friend is irrationally emotional. it's not right, but it's unfortunately true. in cases like that, I think it's fine to try and intervene, but we both know at this point nothing you said would have really changed anything.

why wasn't he charged? i thought you said that state takes up the charges?

[Jaymee_]

what can I say? your friend is irrationally emotional. it's not right, but it's unfortunately true. in cases like that, I think it's fine to try and intervene, but we both know at this point nothing you said would have really changed anything.

why wasn't he charged? i thought you said that state takes up the charges?


They took up the charges against her! They dropped it from a felony attempted murder charge to a misdemeanor domestic violence because of her bruises. She refused to tell them where she got the bruises to start with, but this is a VERY small town ...

You're right Uni, she wouldn't listen to anyone. My friend WAS irrationally emotional. Thankfully she has seen the light and is no longer with him. I worry for her children though.. He has visitation rights.


Mel, I'm not only speaking of males beating females. I'm speaking of domestic violence in general. There are other ways of abusing someone.. I'm sure that it is not always the guy abusing the girl either, could be the other way around as well.