Setups, comment please.

[The Wild]

Hey everyone, these are some of my setups. In these sets i "tried" to be original and think of something that isn't that common. I've experimented with these sets and they're not bad, in my opinion. Please try not to post too much hate. I would much rather you post some advice to help me improve these sets. Okay, thanks.

Set 1
http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k257/druwurd/tehset1.jpg

Set 2
http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k257/druwurd/tehset2.jpg

Set 3
http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k257/druwurd/tehset3.jpg

Set 4
http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k257/druwurd/tehset4.jpg

Set 5
http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k257/druwurd/tehset5.jpg

Set 6
http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k257/druwurd/tehset6.jpg

Set 7
http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k257/druwurd/tehset7.jpg

Comment please.

[Silver Coast]

I didn't feel like looking through all seven of them. But I will look at them if any of them are gold formations. Because I just don't feel like commenting on something I haven't done in a while. I haven't gone Gold Jumping in like 4 months :(

[The Wild]

The first 3 are grey and the last 4 are gold. :)

[Anarchy_United]

7 is just bad, and none of the gold forms are very good. I don't mind the Side anti with the wisp though. And I don't know how the corner turt will perform either.

[steve12]

I suggest posting the pictures directly in the thread because 7 is the only one I can view, and I'm not liking it much.

[The Wild]

Yeah, i agree most of them aren't that good. These setups were just experimental and an attempt by me to come up with a somewhat original set. How are the grey sets? Nobody's commented on them yet.

Okay Steve, i posted the picture directly on the thread.

[steve12]

Again, please post the pictures directly on the thread. Then, I can help you out with 2-3 of them if you want.

[Silver Coast]

I can't see any of the pictures after you posted them directly..

[imagination]

my fav is actually the last one but personally i think you got lucky there. Anyways, my comments on making sets would be as follows; dont just throw your units into a front line or into a stone cluster or anything like that. Try to have a reason for why every piece is where its at and you will begin to understand the dynamics of making sets. I enjoy creating new sets every once in awile and have found alot of fun in creating grey sets recently because a) the tag team tourney is going on and b) i have found that because there is less range for greys to play around with the sets can be made to not have starting LOS blockage and instead be made to start out with either more offensive line positioning or more defensive positioning depending on your style. I feel like i have more control with it.

[Legendary]

Below Average at best.


~Double™

[Geoffrey]

First grey one is not good. If i get chanty side. You have no chance of running cleric away.

Form 2. I dislike drops. BW there is useless in same side games move it somewhere else.

Form3-Move assassin up, than would be like Soda's kinda.

[Lonely Tylenol]

Set 1 is kinda weak against all manner of Scout attacks, and the Chanty/BW in that position don't offer themselves up for much, except maybe to guard against an Assassin, which any unit can do.

Set 2 has two Clerics, good for you... But you only defend them against melee units, bad for you. Push the Knights up for better protection.

Set 3 is good. Textbook, perhaps, but good. I would suggest pushing the Assassin up and out a bit, a melee unit should not be back near the Cleric. I can only assume she's for a BW/bomb setup in her position.

Set 4 is my setup with the Furgon one space forward, which is essentially Cavour's setup (no, it's EXACTLY Cavour's setup). Not bad, but... Not original, in fact, one of the most classic turtles still in use (by us die-hard Furgon-users).

Set 5 looks kinda like DOCTOR DEVICE's frontline rush, only he used a Dragon instead of Knight/Frost. Worked well, so I guess no complaints there.

Set 6... LW is not as good in gold vs. gold games, as there are usually too many range units in play to make serious use of the LW, even as a deterrent. Either push it one space closer to the centre or remove it, and maybe spread units out (either push them out or pull some back) so there is some freedom between movements.

Set 7 you may never get to work. I appreciate the effort on trying a middle-based rush in the gold game, but centre Clerics are simply too vulnerable to defend in most cases (took me a lot of practice to get it down with my grey units). Could work, but needs a serious makeover. For instance, remove the LW and put in something else, maybe a Golem Ambusher, and shuffle the units around so they aren't so vulnerable.

I have used the dual-Scout combination in this setup against corner Clerics, and I know it looks real efficient when you kill the Cleric in two moves from various different places, but it is just as likely that both your Scouts will be incredibly vulnerable, especially against a DSM, which puts you in a losing position from move 1. I'd take at least one of those away from the equation, put a Beast Rider in its place.

[The Wild]

Thanks for the imput everyone.

[The Wild]

Okay, before you call me noob for bringing this thread back. I just want to say I have a reason for bringing it back. I've read all your comments carefully and I've come up with a new set. No, i did not just feel lazy and throw a bunch of units together. I actually thought about this one very carefully. I present to you.... Teh Grey Anti-Rush!

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k257/druwurd/druwgreyanti.jpg?t=1183230738

Unit Postioning:

Cleric - 1 spot away from corner to give it a chance of escaping if flanked from the side.

BW - To block direct front attacks to the cleric. I also put it there because in that position it has range to reach all the units.

Pyro ( side of cleric ) - To prevent a direct side hit to the cleric, and to burn units that get passed the knights.

Other Pyro - Block LOS to cleric, also to burn weak units.

Scout - Block LOS to cleric, also has good range if I'm flanking an opposite side turt.

Assasin - Block LOS to cleric and to be part of a wall to block melee units.

Knight (Closest to the left) - To defend against attacking units, also able to fall back 1 space and complete a half wall.

LW - Block witch burn and to ward off weak units from rushing.

2 Remaining Knights - Defend and part of a half wall.

Now you can call me noob. :)

[steve12]

It's nice with all the LOS blockers you pointed out, but would be in a heap of trouble if a few Knights came down your flank, as they don't even need ranged backup (Scout), because you don't have a Chanty in there. Because of this, you will have to focus on all defensive moves (to blast the units comingin as much as possible), or all offensive moves.

[FryLock]

#1 - Pretty bad, easily flanked or 2-pronged.
#2 - BW is in a stupid spot
#3 - best of a bad lot, assassin is in a dumb spot
#4 - you copied someone's turtle, good for you
#5 - may be ok if you get same side (but probably not even then)
#6 - "lmao noob"
#7 - "lolzors r u kidding?!??!"

[Young Cha1]

Ne grey set without a chanty really isn't worth looking at

[pils]

None of them are all that bad.
I like the anti in there, with the berz.
<333 berzerkers.

You should submit them to du's formation database. I'm sure he would really appreciate them, and they would make a nice addition.

[Soda]

Ne grey set without a chanty really isn't worth looking at
Shut up noob.

[Young Cha1]

I'll disregard your comment since you prolly know nothing about playing grey if you think you can beat any decent set at grey dropless without a chanty

[Soda]

Thats siggy worth.

[xFalconx]

Its late, and I scavenged this up, and found it funny ^_^

I'll disregard your comment since you prolly know nothing about playing grey if you think you can beat any decent set at grey dropless without a chanty

That actually made me laugh out loud. Like, you know, in real life.

Mr.8 posts here saying Soda knows nothing about playing grey. Ohhh boy.

Ignorance can be pretty entertaining ^_^

I might as well stay on topic a little bit, so I dont get flamed.

The updated anti-rush set. Well, the point of a corner is that it can only get "flanked" on one side, so putting it one off the corner isnt really useful, as all it does is shift the units and create both a left and right flank. I wouldn't worry too much about "what to do If I'm flanked" because the goal of the game is not to get flanked, or, if it is unavoidable, flank the opponent at the same time.

When making a set, it's better to focus on finding a way to stop yourself from getting flanked, or finding a way to flank the opponent faster, rather than focusing on what to do once it happens. It shouldnt happen. And if it does, defense wont be what saves you.

[steve12]

I think it's been proven that a Chanty is a great addition to a grey set. So I don't know what you guys are getting at, but picking on a new member of the forums with ignorance shouldn't be the answer.

Not only will a Chanty allow you to cover your Cleric from melee attackers more, it will allow you to attack the opponent without fear of them coming in, as the Chanty can win games against up to 3-4 melee attackers (depending on the situation) with a BW single-handedly sometimes. The Chanty-Jail strategy isn't too shabby either.

[Dresicos]

I'll disregard your comment since you prolly know nothing about playing grey if you think you can beat any decent set at grey dropless without a chanty

LMFAO

Hahhahahahahahahahahaha, that gave me such a good laugh.

[Geoffrey]

Lawl Young, Soda would own you so incredibly badly.

[steve12]

Wait a second, I vaguely remember young cha having another forum account... Hm..


Oh, that's right! http://www.tacticsarena.com/forum/showthread.php?t=31918

[Magician]

I got to 1400 playing chantyless grey... :huh:

[bobo99]

I'm about 1325 chanty-less on army.
And I'm a noob :p

[Cliche]

I got to 1400 playing chantyless grey... :huh:

Whatever you say, Magician...whatever you say.

[steve12]

I got to 1400 playing chantyless grey... :huh:

Well, you are a different case. You are Mag. And I was talking about the average TAO player. And you're just Mag. So bah. :p

[*Sanosuke*]

Ne grey set without a chanty really isn't worth looking at

Alot like your sets?

[Young Cha1]

What name does Soda play under? Only person I see by that name is someone on Army ranked 750? And I still find it ridiculous that you people can even consider the fact that a pyro has more use than a chanty? All post numbers aside...how are you possibly gonna argue a pyro has more grey use in beginning, middle, or endgame?

[Soda]

So, how about that game now? I am on Rev on The Grey.

[dab00z]

I'll disregard [Soda's] comment since you prolly know nothing about playing grey if you think you can beat any decent set at grey dropless without a chanty

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

[LosPollos]

All post numbers aside...how are you possibly gonna argue a pyro has more grey use in beginning, middle, or endgame?
Destroyed units don't come back, frozen ones can.
The enchantress is far more reliant on a barier ward to be effective.
It negates the heal to about 2 units at a time(up until the later of the middle portion of a game).
More usefull in the beginning of the game BY FAR. How often in your first 5 moves do you use you enchantress?
I use it all the time both for and against the assassin bomb.
A pyro benefits more from a cleric's death.
Most underestimated unit, especially in terms of it's blocking ability.

I'm sure i've missed some, but you get the idea.

[BlackSyphon]

I lost to soda's chantyless when I did have a chanty. Proof enough.

All it takes is a well guarded scout hanging out and its a useless unit. I am not saying that the opponent will always have a scout lurking, and by all means, you should focus on forcing the scout into the open. But if they are able to set up, like I let soda do, then the enchantress is not much more useful than a blocker or a 2 hit shrub.

I only say this because unlike the pyro, the chanty is not underrated, and I need not list its many pros in battle. And I assure you, I am an experienced grey player, and I do know what I am talking about.

du

[steve12]

What's this? Hm.... It appears we need to start a new discussion regarding Chantys being in the average grey set and whether it's more important than a Pyro. I've seen the same argument before, but peoples' opinions in this thread are different than what I have seen before. They also make a lot of sense.

[Young Cha1]

I understand that the scout can make the enchantress a completely useless unit, but doesn't that also apply to the pyro with a lightning ward? I know this isn't the case in all situations, but it still should be considered.

[bludhoundz]

Difference: Scout has range of 6 (+ 4 walking distance), LW has range of 3. Scout can move, LW cannot.

I do use an enchantress instead of a pyro, but you still have to realize that a pyro is just as viable a unit.

[bobo99]

I understand that the scout can make the enchantress a completely useless unit, but doesn't that also apply to the pyro with a lightning ward? I know this isn't the case in all situations, but it still should be considered.

I personally would never move my pyro into a possition to be hit with a lightning ward, unless it were an crucial situation. My pyro starts in a position where is can NOT be lightning warded unless moved. The pyro also has decent blocking, often enough to make a run at your scout, or another unit attacking to fend it off. If not, simply heal or barrier ward.

[steve12]

I understand that the scout can make the enchantress a completely useless unit, but doesn't that also apply to the pyro with a lightning ward? I know this isn't the case in all situations, but it still should be considered.

Noone experienced is going to have a Pyro in a possible range of a first-turn LW blast. You are talking about two different scenarios, because a Scout actually has to move into one's base to pick at a Chanty, which will probably leave it suspectible to melee damage unless barriered or it is late in the game. You can't make comparisons like that, considering we are talking about players who know what they are doing.

[Young Cha1]

No you misunderstood me, I didn't mean a first turn lw kill. I meant that like the enchantress not being used if opponent has a scount nearby, a pyro can't be used to attack if your opponent has a lightning ward nearby. And assuming that we all agree lightning wards are neccesary in grey sets (I assume so, I may be wrong), I meant to say that a pyro can't always be used if your opponent has a lightning ward preventing the pyro from advancing.

[Young Cha1]

As far as defensive use for a pyro is concerened, that I didn't mean to compare

[LosPollos]

No you misunderstood me, I didn't mean a first turn lw kill. I meant that like the enchantress not being used if opponent has a scount nearby, a pyro can't be used to attack if your opponent has a lightning ward nearby. And assuming that we all agree lightning wards are neccesary in grey sets (I assume so, I may be wrong), I meant to say that a pyro can't always be used if your opponent has a lightning ward preventing the pyro from advancing.
In a same-side game, the lw marks my opponents front line....why should i have to advance?
In opposite sides, odds are that his units will come to me before i would get my pyro to him(longer wait and all). If he's playing defensive then it is the same reason for same-side.

[*Sanosuke*]

You also could always sacrifice the pyro into the lw's range but using the pyros attack
then charge past the lw.

[Magician]

Unless you were sure about pulling off the move, I wouldn't sac the unit.