Native American discusion

[ubah]

Because this has come up elsewhere I would like to have a thread discussing Native American issues like:
Should the Nations of Native Americans have the right to sovereignty on the land that treaties with the US government leave them?
What is your nation?
and anything else.
have at it folks.

[T3km4n]

I'm part native american wooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo yeah dont know wat youre talkign about! im so tired, ned sleep

[iceman2001]

Umm...I thought the other discussion was about the reasons for alcoholism in Native American Society....not where or not we should continue to provide reservations for Indian populations?

[Elentari]

Because this has come up elsewhere I would like to have a thread discussing Native American issues like:

Should the Nations of Native Americans have the right to sovereignty on the land that treaties with the US government leave them?


Good lord. A thread for discussing native americans?

To answer your question - of course not. We should just stick them all in tupperware containers and file them away with no rights whatsoever and no recognition of the fact that we stole their country.


:)

[OFFLINE]

is it true that if you are 16% native american that you can go to any collage for free?

[gigolojlo gl]

is it true that if you are 16% native american that you can go to any collage for free?

Is it true that you are retarded? Nevermind, your post answered my question.

[mushroom_girl]

is it true that if you are 16% native american that you can go to any collage for free?

Haha, probably not. But I bet you can get some killer scholarships, just like Eskimos (Alaskan Natives...whatever) can.

[inked]

Casinos > College

[ubah]

Umm...I thought the other discussion was about the reasons for alcoholism in Native American Society....not where or not we should continue to provide reservations for Indian populations?

We can continue that here but I thought why restrict it to that one topic, oh and nice to see you around ice

is it true that if you are 16% native american that you can go to any collage for free?

If you are officially recognized by the gubment (which is another pile of BS) you can get some grants to help.

Casinos > College

This is a pet peave of mine. There seems to be a complaint about Native tribes exercising their sovereignty and allowing things that are not federally regulated. People don't complain when a state does this and it is the same deal a state has the right to write its own laws as long as they are not federally regulated, so does a tribe on its land.

Wrong. You are thinking about dairy products for people of non-European ancestry. Large percentages of Asian and Native American adults are lactose intolerant.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lactose_intolerant

The effects of alcohol is not due to "breaking it down" in the stomach, but by absorbtion into the bloodstream.
http://www.forcon.ca/learning/alcohol.html

I read the paper a long time ago, and I tried to find it on google but had no luck. So I am willing to concede I might be confusing studies.

[Ächilles]

If it were up to me I'd just give the entire country back to them. It's bullshit that the Americans just "took" it because of so called "manifest destiny". Give Alaska and Hawaii back to. Tear down the government, and drive out the overindulgent.

[Anarchy_United]

Good lord. A thread for discussing native americans?

To answer your question - of course not. We should just stick them all in tupperware containers and file them away with no rights whatsoever and no recognition of the fact that we stole their country.


:)

Stole Their Country? That is bullshit. Sure, we were assholes about it, adn we violated their rights, but we did not "steal their country". The same thing happened that has always happened, when their are more people than the land can support, people do 1 of 2 things: Fight A War or Leave and Settle Elsewhere. Even now, no state in the US has a higher population Density than England, after 500 years of coming here. Its a simple matter of, it was much more densely populated in Europe than it was in the Americas. Was it fair for 2 million(about their population) people to live in the Entire area of the US, while elsewhere there was overpopulation? NO! (That is about 5 Square miles per person)

Now, while I do say that we did not steal their land, because there simply wasn't enough land for Native Americans(even though they are no more native than I am) to keep all of it for themselves, the way Europeans went about taking it was simply barbaric. However, it was no more barbaric than the way Europeans had been treating eachother for centuries. It was wrong how the land was taken, but it was not wrong that Europeans came to settle.

And about the sovereingty (ouch that was spelled bad) issue, I believe Native Americans should(as long as they want to, though I am not sure why they wouldn't).

[Realist]

Was it fair for 2 million(about their population) people to live in the Entire area of the US, while elsewhere there was overpopulation? NO! (That is about 5 Square miles per person)

2 million? It was at least 10 million, and maybe far higher. Disease kills people really fast. Granted, that's not stealing so much as getting really lucky with the germs, but let's not underestimate the extent of the catastrophe that was native/European contact.

Anyways, I think I'm around 1/16th native, so don't kick me out if the natives ever reconquer the place.

[Jaymee_]

Anyways, I think I'm around 1/16th native, so don't kick me out if the natives ever reconquer the place.

I'm 1/16th as well. Although my blonde hair and blue eyes makes it kinda hard to believe I have any native blood in me at all.

[savanna]

im part native american. two parts, actually. blackfoot and cherokee.
so, this is why iu run around fires screaming like a savage.
cause im part NA

[Kyir]

Because this has come up elsewhere I would like to have a thread discussing Native American issues like:
Should the Nations of Native Americans have the right to sovereignty on the land that treaties with the US government leave them?
What is your nation?
and anything else.
have at it folks.

Your text annoys me enough for me to reply without reading it:

I don't care.

[ChronKing]

i love them redskins, they know how to build one awesome casino..yep..bomb casinos....plenty of hot lil native pussy walkin around its like havin sex with our ancestors, and thats just kinky

[uniquinous]

no. Yes, what happened sucks. I've never been a big fan of holding future generations accountable for long-past injuries. The problem comes when these lands are used for otherwise unregulated illegal activities. One could make the claim that casinos are elsewhere in the US, and this is true. But they are limited, and I'd prefer to keep them that way. There isn't much conflict in policy (as far as I know) whereas Native Americans would be too restricted by US law on a given section of land.

What I'd like to know (as I'm clearly not educated on this topic, and people should rip apart my ideas), is what percentage of this population is still upholding their ancestral traditions, and what percentage perfectly embody the average melting-pot-American. It's one thing to need what little is given as a means of upholding traditions. It's another to work the system to get an advantage over the next guy when the injury in no way affects that person.

[The AIDS Virus]

im 1/8th native american...yay good college!

[Ächilles]

2 million? It was at least 10 million, and maybe far higher. Disease kills people really fast. Granted, that's not stealing so much as getting really lucky with the germs, but let's not underestimate the extent of the catastrophe that was native/European contact.

They believe that the Native population may have even far exceeded 10 million. It's speculated that it could have been significantly higher. It was actually the landing of Hernando de Soto in 1539 in Florida that brought forth the largest blow by disease to the Natives. He and his crew explored North America, and introduced a slew of diseases to the Natives. He is largely responsible for a good majority of Native American death.

[ubah]

I'm 1/16th as well. Although my blonde hair and blue eyes makes it kinda hard to believe I have any native blood in me at all.

Unless you know what you are looking for you would find it hard to see the native in me and I am 1/4 Cherokee. I don't partake in the whole fullblood or halfblood bullshit to me it is more a part of your identity or not, if you identify with your Native roots and celebrate them is enough for me.

[uniquinous]

I agree. I find it kinda pointless for someone to say "I'm 1/4 ______" but know nothing about the culture. If you look white, act white, and have nothing but non-native background/upbringing/customs/culture, I don't think a person has claim to that heritage anymore...

[The AIDS Virus]

I disagree. I wasn't brought up with my Native American "roots" being even mildly influential, but I am nonetheless proud of where I came from. I admit that I am basically your average white guy, but I like people knowing that there's more to my heritage.

[iceman2001]

What I'd like to know (as I'm clearly not educated on this topic, and people should rip apart my ideas), is what percentage of this population is still upholding their ancestral traditions, and what percentage perfectly embody the average melting-pot-American. It's one thing to need what little is given as a means of upholding traditions. It's another to work the system to get an advantage over the next guy when the injury in no way affects that person.

I'm not qualified to give you a percentage of what percent still holds "ancestral traditions." I took a course on Native American history, however, which included an extensive look at modern Native Americans, and have traveled to some of the larger reservations in the West.

My caveat is this is a very difficult topic to write about, so my apologies in advance.

The general sense I got is that most Native Americans, particularly those growing up on reservations find themselves uncomfortably between two very different worlds. Statistically, the large reservations are very poor compared to the US population. (I'm not talking about Eastern Casinos) Native Americans as an ethnicity are dwindling rapidly due to intermarriage, and the number of pure blood Native Americans from every tribe I know are decreasing. With this, I feel their cultural identity becoming lost. All but the largest reservations are bombarded with Anglo-culture. In order to become college educated, the youth are increasingly leaving the reservations, often never to return.

At the same time, there remains a great reluctance to become Anglo-Americanized. The days before Christopher Columbus are perceived as almost a period of idyllic paradise. Although it is generally recognised that it is impossible to return to such a time, they feel opposed to fusing with Anglo America, who destroyed their world.

[Kyir]

At the same time, there remains a great reluctance to become Anglo-Americanized. The days before Christopher Columbus are perceived as almost a period of idyllic paradise. Although it is generally recognised that it is impossible to return to such a time, they feel opposed to fusing with Anglo America, who destroyed their world.

Because they wouldn't of ended up doing that by themselves.

Nope, never happens.

Ever.

[Hatchet Warrior]

The percentage number is 25%. You need to be at least that much in order to really be counted as a tribal member.

[ubah]

no. Yes, what happened sucks. I've never been a big fan of holding future generations accountable for long-past injuries. The problem comes when these lands are used for otherwise unregulated illegal activities. One could make the claim that casinos are elsewhere in the US, and this is true. But they are limited, and I'd prefer to keep them that way. There isn't much conflict in policy (as far as I know) whereas Native Americans would be too restricted by US law on a given section of land.

What I'd like to know (as I'm clearly not educated on this topic, and people should rip apart my ideas), is what percentage of this population is still upholding their ancestral traditions, and what percentage perfectly embody the average melting-pot-American. It's one thing to need what little is given as a means of upholding traditions. It's another to work the system to get an advantage over the next guy when the injury in no way affects that person.

UNI-chan, glad to see you, dont take my disagreements with your statements to heart always luv ya

It is not illegal is the point I am arguing, a Nation has sovereignty on its own land and can make its own laws. I am not even arguing that such independence can ever be accepted as over federal law, but just as each state can write its own laws to the extent allowed by the constitution and federal laws so can a Native Nation on its own land. This is a small part of most treaties that have been violated, but it is no small thing to ask for independence and self governance. The US government and its people should show the honor of at least upholding this small thing, especially as freedom and independence are words bandied about when discussing what the identity of the US is. You say unregulated but that is not recognizing the right of the Nation to regulate itself and not the state it is landlocked by.


I agree. I find it kinda pointless for someone to say "I'm 1/4 ______" but know nothing about the culture. If you look white, act white, and have nothing but non-native background/upbringing/customs/culture, I don't think a person has claim to that heritage anymore...

I disagree. I wasn't brought up with my Native American "roots" being even mildly influential, but I am nonetheless proud of where I came from. I admit that I am basically your average white guy, but I like people knowing that there's more to my heritage.

Now this is interesting to me because I never have lived on the rez or had a strong influence in my life of any Native traditions besides my Grandmother (Where my Cherokee blood is from) who I was very close with but she died when I was very young 5-6 years. My family history is one that avoided the rez and never allowed themselves to be put on the dawes roles, hence the government would say even my grandmother could not be legally recognized as Native, hence my disdain for the BS that being recognized entails. After she died there was little influence of any traditions in my upbringing, and exactly how much can you be influenced at such a young age. That being said, I have always grown up knowing about and being proud of my ancestry and respecting my grandmother. Form all intents and purposes I have been raised in "integrated" US society and to see me as a Unix administrator in an affluent community you may say that I am not truly Native. I however reject that as I obviously identify strongly with my native side.

I'm not qualified to give you a percentage of what percent still holds "ancestral traditions." I took a course on Native American history, however, which included an extensive look at modern Native Americans, and have traveled to some of the larger reservations in the West.

My caveat is this is a very difficult topic to write about, so my apologies in advance.

The general sense I got is that most Native Americans, particularly those growing up on reservations find themselves uncomfortably between two very different worlds. Statistically, the large reservations are very poor compared to the US population. (I'm not talking about Eastern Casinos) Native Americans as an ethnicity are dwindling rapidly due to intermarriage, and the number of pure blood Native Americans from every tribe I know are decreasing. With this, I feel their cultural identity becoming lost. All but the largest reservations are bombarded with Anglo-culture. In order to become college educated, the youth are increasingly leaving the reservations, often never to return.

At the same time, there remains a great reluctance to become Anglo-Americanized. The days before Christopher Columbus are perceived as almost a period of idyllic paradise. Although it is generally recognised that it is impossible to return to such a time, they feel opposed to fusing with Anglo America, who destroyed their world.


I would not even argue a return to such times but I would like to be allowed the ability of each Native Nation to govern itself. Even if I were just a European American I would want to uphold my honor and my countries honor by keeping our word on the agreements that "guaranteed" this.