The nameless thread

[Brahman]

Here's a thought.

No matter what any of us believe... Life just IS, regardless of what we think or believe about it right? Does God or the laws of nature and evolution need any of us to be so?

The Cold Objective Truth of it is, regardless of what any human being 'thinks' reality is, IT needs none of us to exist. I don't know about you guys but in this context whatever I have ever believed or known is relatively unimportant given that Existence does not depend on anything from me. Put yourself and life in this perspective and the weight of knowledge and beliefs you carry that seem soooo important become little more than mental fabrications strewn across the field of Existence for your 70 or 80 years of personal entertainment. There must be more than the inherent restrictions one adopts in the individual perspective, there are 7 billion other individual perspectives on this planet let alone all of the creatures of the Universe, how much more 'right' could one be over another?

Where in Existence can we all meet, that All may share in Totality of vision and Universal perspective while simultaneously enlivening each individual contribution to the whole? Where might we Unite to affect real change and expansion and evolution?

[Lonely Tylenol]

I hereby rename this thread "the thread with a name". First.

This does bring up an interesting point though:

The Cold Objective Truth of it is, regardless of what any human being 'thinks' reality is, IT needs none of us to exist.

While it is true that reality, whatever it is, does not need any single person or living being to exist... Were this entire universe completely devoid of consciousness, would there be a reality? Put in an analogous sense... If a tree falls in a forest and nobody's around to hear it, does it make a sound?

And as a footnote:

There must be more than the inherent restrictions one adopts in the individual perspective, there are 7 billion other individual perspectives on this planet let alone all of the creatures of the Universe, how much more 'right' could one be over another?

It's all relative.

[Jeffery]

Here's a thought.

No matter what any of us believe... Life just IS, regardless of what we think or believe about it right? Does God or the laws of nature and evolution need any of us to be so?

The Cold Objective Truth of it is, regardless of what any human being 'thinks' reality is, IT needs none of us to exist. I don't know about you guys but in this context whatever I have ever believed or known is relatively unimportant given that Existence does not depend on anything from me. Put yourself and life in this perspective and the weight of knowledge and beliefs you carry that seem soooo important become little more than mental fabrications strewn across the field of Existence for your 70 or 80 years of personal entertainment. There must be more than the inherent restrictions one adopts in the individual perspective, there are 7 billion other individual perspectives on this planet let alone all of the creatures of the Universe, how much more 'right' could one be over another?

Where in Existence can we all meet, that All may share in Totality of vision and Universal perspective while simultaneously enlivening each individual contribution to the whole? Where might we Unite to affect real change and expansion and evolution?
If you truly believed that life just was, you wouldn;t try so hard to constantly convince people that your particular vision was the One True Way.

As it is your constant posts smell of Hippos.

[KBHoleN1]

Hungry, hungry ...

[Jeffery]

http://tacticsarena.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1260466&postcount=35394

[The Coder]

Here's a thought.

No matter what any of us believe... Life just IS, regardless of what we think or believe about it right? Does God or the laws of nature and evolution need any of us to be so?

The Cold Objective Truth of it is, regardless of what any human being 'thinks' reality is, IT needs none of us to exist. I don't know about you guys but in this context whatever I have ever believed or known is relatively unimportant given that Existence does not depend on anything from me. Put yourself and life in this perspective and the weight of knowledge and beliefs you carry that seem soooo important become little more than mental fabrications strewn across the field of Existence for your 70 or 80 years of personal entertainment. There must be more than the inherent restrictions one adopts in the individual perspective, there are 7 billion other individual perspectives on this planet let alone all of the creatures of the Universe, how much more 'right' could one be over another?

Where in Existence can we all meet, that All may share in Totality of vision and Universal perspective while simultaneously enlivening each individual contribution to the whole? Where might we Unite to affect real change and expansion and evolution?

It took me 6 years to come up with this. I mean, I thought of this stuff when I was 6. I've been an atheist as long as I remember. There's no real purpose in life. Regardless of whether we live or die existence will continue. We serve no purpose. My philosophy is, you can do whatever the hell you want if it doesn't bother others or interfere with there ability to continue a "happy" existence. I don't believe in taking from another without their permission. I've been "gifted" with life. They've been too. Life is a "gift," I wouldn't truly force anything upon another. Everyone has an equal right to it, unless you have interfered with another's gift. Yea, kinda stupid, it doesn't really matter, but I like thought, and I don't others to take it away from me.

I think the real purpose for religion is for those who can't really accept this, for those who want purpose and meaning. For those fearful of this harsh reality.

[Shinigami]

I think the real purpose for religion is for those who can't really accept this, for those who want purpose and meaning. For those fearful of this harsh reality.

Indeed. One person asked me why I thought in this manner, and when I told them, he called me a moron and told me that I was going to hell. Ever since then, I've avoided discussion about religion with religious or close-minded people. Especially in this place. I might get crucified.

:confused:

[Brahman]

Were this entire universe completely devoid of consciousness, would there be a reality?
What is, and what isn't consciousness? Was there anything before consciousness? Good questions.
If a tree falls in a forest and nobody's around to hear it, does it make a sound?
The existence of anything manifest implies sound as it were.

But this question is similar to asking, "what is the sound of one hand clapping"? Zen meditation masters posed these questions to students and the students would spend many hours and days contemplating the answer to them. Ideally the students mind would transcend itself in light of the apparent paradox and inability to contain an answer in any one thought. These proverbs are mini doorways into a more expanded awareness because either the answer is simultaneously revealed within the question, or they are answerable only with separate yet combined responses such as "yes and no". They are designed to deliberately cause a state of mind fucked-ness whereby the student gets a taste of what lay beyond. Which came first, the chicken or the egg?

It's all relative.
Yes. And this is why I pose the question:
Where in Existence can we all meet, that All may share in Totality of vision and Universal perspective while simultaneously enlivening each individual contribution to the whole? Where might we Unite to affect real change and expansion and evolution?

If you truly believed that life just was
You'll have to point out where in my post you saw me protesting a belief that life just was?
you wouldn;t try so hard to constantly convince people that your particular vision was the One True Way.

Can you highlight this vision of mine that you see, and let me know where I stated that I have the right way please?
As if plain english didn't convey my position enough:
There must be more than the inherent restrictions one adopts in the individual perspective, there are 7 billion other individual perspectives on this planet let alone all of the creatures of the Universe, how much more 'right' could one be over another?

As it is your constant posts smell of Hippos.
So witty of you.

And with your posts there's a distinct stench of fear due to your aversion of engaging anyone in a conversation of substance when this sort of discussion arises. You come across like Realist projecting the idea that I have an agenda to brainwash, although that may be exactly what you need. How precious could the dusty old thoughts and cob-webs of identity really be Jeffery? Wherever I choose to post you inevitably pop up like a jack in the box with one or two lines of condescension. Stop clowning around and speak your mind. Just because the things I say jostle you up, doesn't necessarily mean they are bad for you. But do me the favor next time and save your lack of intelligent direction for a thread where none is necessary. In case you hadn't noticed there are others who share an interest in discussing life's biggest questions.

I think the real purpose for religion is for those who can't really accept this, for those who want purpose and meaning. For those fearful of this harsh reality.
I think this is definitely one of the more common ways that people misconstrue the essence of what a religion is pointing to.

But I would also say that purpose is in the eye of the beholder and while some assign purpose to their lives for wholly arrogant reasons, others disregard purpose due to feelings of despair and/or low-self worth. Meanwhile, there are many whom have said that Lifes greatest purpose is in giving and helping others through love and compassion. My experience tells me that this is true.

[AlabamaBoy]

Your perception of reality does require you to exist.

Reality isn't the same for anyone.

Out experiances, our lives, everything is different, thus we experiance different realities... and in so doing, we are required to exist for our reality to exist.

Reality as it truly is, is not witnessed by anyone, and if it isn't then it doesn't exist. The only thing that exists is in our own perception.

__________________________
“We are what we think. All that we are arises with our thoughts. With our thoughts, we make the world.”
- Buddha
__________________________
How's that food for thought?

[Shinigami]

Your perception of reality does require you to exist.

Reality isn't the same for anyone.

Out experiances, our lives, everything is different, thus we experiance different realities... and in so doing, we are required to exist for our reality to exist.

Reality as it truly is, is not witnessed by anyone, and if it isn't then it doesn't exist. The only thing that exists is in our own perception.

__________________________
“We are what we think. All that we are arises with our thoughts. With our thoughts, we make the world.”
- Buddha
__________________________
How's that food for thought?

With your post, you've filled my plate up. I'm digested it, and I have a question.

Please, sir. I want some more.

[AlabamaBoy]

Which of my philosophies do you want to hear about?

Which aspect do you wish me to indulge?

[Shinigami]

"Our experiences, our lives, everything is different, thus we experience different realities... and in so doing, we are required to exist for our reality to exist."

I would like to hear about this one. It is the conclusion I have been trying to come to for years on end.

[AlabamaBoy]

What I was saying was: The world that you see is different from the world I see. Yes, we could hypotheticaly look at each other face to face, and see one another. The difference lies in the way we see things. Every aspect of my personality would remind you of something and vice versa, even if it was completly subconcious.

Have you ever noticed that if you listen to a song in different phases of your life it will mean something different to you?

This is a clear way of showing that you are percieving a different world that you were then.

It is the same when you go from my perception to yours.

We see a different reality.

Without you, the world you see isn't there. Meaning; without you that world is gone forever, thus reality you to exist, because your reality alters mine, and vice versa.

Everyone plays a role.

[Realist]

Where in Existence can we all meet, that All may share in Totality of vision and Universal perspective while simultaneously enlivening each individual contribution to the whole? Where might we Unite to affect real change and expansion and evolution?

TAO forums?

[AlabamaBoy]

That puts too much pressure on us to satisfy.

[Wizzy`]

What's up with all the philosophical threads on TAO?

[kingedward]

This thread...hurts my head.

[Jeffery]

What's up with all the philosophical threads on TAO?
It's much easier to just rip something off a website and post it as your own in a forums, as opposed to actually knwoing what your talking about in real life.

[Jeffery]

The best remedy for those who are afraid, lonely or unhappy is to go outside and kill themselves.

Jeffery of Banff

[Brahman]

Your perception of reality does require you to exist.
Reality isn't the same for anyone.
Our experiences, our lives, everything is different, thus we experience different realities... and in so doing, we are required to exist for our reality to exist.
Reality as it truly is, is not witnessed by anyone, and if it isn't then it doesn't exist. The only thing that exists is in our own perception.

I thought this was put really well Alabama. And I think it serves to put ourselves into perspective like this. My whole life I found it difficult to boldly state that 'this' was my belief or 'that' was my belief because it seemed inevitable that my beliefs would change as I experienced more of what life had to offer. This is why it strikes me as odd when someone projects their interpretation of life as being more 'right' than another's whether it be scientific or religious. I've always desired the ability to put myself into everyone else's shoes so that my view of reality would be more complete by having more pieces of the puzzle.

There is though an impersonal Reality from whence all individual realities stem from, and I've found that it is quite enlightening to connect with that.

Originally posted by Realist:
TAO forums?
Heehee. I tot someone might say this. :) While these forums can be quite expanding for many people in many different ways we participants still present one another with the challenge of finding Union through relative views that invariably meld and clash on different levels. The process of communication with one another as human beings can certainly evolve however.
It's much easier to just rip something off a website and post it as your own in a forums, as opposed to actually knwoing what your talking about in real life.
Hmmm...... I challenge you on that one Jeff. I think google searching a subject of interest to find suitable criteria to fit ones agenda requires far greater effort than just popping into a thread and posting senseless insults that lack any real intelligence or conscious engagement on the part of the poster. The repressed feelings and expression of mind may lead one to believe that: The best remedy for those who are afraid, lonely or unhappy is to go outside and kill themselves.
in which case I would offer Buddha's perspective on things:
“We are what we think. All that we are arises with our thoughts. With our thoughts, we make the world.”
- Buddha

[abyaly]

What makes you so sure there's a reality outside your perception? Why do you think there isn't a blank void hiding just outside your line of sight?
Hulky has demonstrated several times that just because someone is posting here on the forums doesn't give you any real evidence that they exist.

[silent demon]

What of those who have no thoughts for themselves? The ones who have no freedom over there thoughts.

The ones who can easily be persuaded into thinking like another and that one thinks like another... and you see where I'm heading with this right?

[Brahman]

What makes you so sure there's a reality outside your perception?
I'm not sure if you were directing the question to me abyaly but I'll shoot. Personally I've experienced that when I yield my perception of things in any given moment there exists a more subtle or refined perception that will take the priors place. The approach of consciously surrendering what one already knows to the greater gift in the unknown can be practiced in each moment. Therefore I've come to take my own perception of things with a grain of salt because there is always a greater perception to be had.
Why do you think there isn't a blank void hiding just outside your line of sight?
That is exactly what I've been sharing all along, there is. One name for this void would be the Ascendant, or Brahman, or pure Consciousness devoid of thought. I would liken the experience to a void of silent fullness. It never changes no matter how much relative perception might.

The Tejo-Bindu Upanishad:
36. I am without name and form, of the nature of bliss, of the nature of being unperceivable by the senses and of the nature of all beings;


What of those who have no thoughts for themselves? The ones who have no freedom over there thoughts.
The ones who can easily be persuaded into thinking like another and that one thinks like another... and you see where I'm heading with this right?
Choice plays a far greater role in ones life than the perception of victimization. Sometimes someones evolution requires that they believe in being a victim for a while until the time that they choose to awaken to their creatorship and take responsibility for every choice they have ever made and stop fighting the harvest they reap from the seeds they've sewn. Then it is recognized that all prior choices led one to their present state of evolutionary potential and that this was a good thing regardless of how it felt.

[silent demon]

Thats easy to say when you know that your the one seeing through your own eyes, but regardless of how life goes for you, one thing is certain, you will be connected by a string to a puppetmaster or your going to be a puppetmaster. Whether it be God or just somebody you work for.

Its hard to say with absolute certainty that the choices you make are your own without the influence of another's.

Warn me when I start going off topic and start talking random nonsense

[Anarchy_United]

I put a pirate hat on my head one day, and I understood the universe.

Its not very complicated when you stop thinking about it.

[Wizzy`]

I put a pirate hat on my head one day, and I understood the universe.

Its not very complicated when you stop thinking about it.

:lol:

[Brahman]

but regardless of how life goes for you, one thing is certain, you will be connected by a string to a puppetmaster or your going to be a puppetmaster.
So in other words life is either to control or to be controlled through your eyes. Is that what you are saying? Either way they are two sides of the same coin that is ego.

Its hard to say with absolute certainty that the choices you make are your own without the influence of another's.
Actually I've found this to be quite true to a point. The degree to which you harbor unconscious thought streams, stresses and desires is relative to the degree with which you will unconsciously pick-up and project the same from others. However, absolute certainty can be known when you rise above the unconsciousness. In Enlightenment ignorance is seen for what it truly is, illusion.
Its not very complicated when you stop thinking about it.
Pure genius and so True.

[The Frozen One]

I look at reality as what you percieve things as. This void would be difficult to get to because your own reality tells you its not there. People find it hard to get there because until you do theres always a part of you that says its not. Once you get there you can always find your way back because the mind is just like that. :)

"If you knock enough, the door will stay open"

[russian]

It took me 6 years to come up with this. I mean, I thought of this stuff when I was 6. I've been an atheist as long as I remember. There's no real purpose in life. Regardless of whether we live or die existence will continue. We serve no purpose. My philosophy is, you can do whatever the hell you want if it doesn't bother others or interfere with there ability to continue a "happy" existence. I don't believe in taking from another without their permission. I've been "gifted" with life. They've been too. Life is a "gift," I wouldn't truly force anything upon another. Everyone has an equal right to it, unless you have interfered with another's gift. Yea, kinda stupid, it doesn't really matter, but I like thought, and I don't others to take it away from me.

I think the real purpose for religion is for those who can't really accept this, for those who want purpose and meaning. For those fearful of this harsh reality.

If life is devoid of "purpose" and it makes no difference if we "live or die", then how is "life a gift"?

Are you still 6?

[abyaly]

I put a pirate hat on my head one day, and I understood the universe.

Its not very complicated when you stop thinking about it.
Were you touched by His Noodly Appendage (http://www.venganza.org/)?

[The Frozen One]

If life is devoid of "purpose" and it makes no difference if we "live or die", then how is "life a gift"?

Are you still 6?

I think what he means isn't that there's no difference if we live or die but that there is no set purpose for living and we must create one.

And by asking if he's still six implies that you are at too young an age to be mature enought not to insult people.

[russian]

I think what he means isn't that there's no difference if we live or die but that there is no set purpose for living and we must create one.

And by asking if he's still six implies that you are at too young an age to be mature enought not to insult people.

And by calling me immature you have assumed my age and shown your ignorance. Further, you have attempted to insult me and therefore by your own standards you are too young to not know enough not to insult people.

So you are either: stupid, or a hypocrite, or both, or most likely too stupid to know you were being hypocritcal in your attempted insult.

But, don't worry for insults are just "names" and "the name that can be named is not the enduring and unchanging name."

[Brahman]

This void would be difficult to get to because your own reality tells you its not there. People find it hard to get there because until you do theres always a part of you that says its not.
YES!!! Part of the mind would like to believe in it, part of the mind would like to reject it... but neither matters because belief is a product of the surface thinking level of awareness. Belief is relatively unimportant if one desires to go to the void as you say.
Once you get there you can always find your way back because the mind is just like that.
Exactly. Great Sages say that the most important function of memory is in remembering the path to the Void, or Ascendant. Indeed, once one has tasted this Reality clearly, enough times, it becomes second nature to keep ones awareness rooted in that. This would be the first recognizable stage of enlightenment known as Perpetual Consciousness. It is the Fifth major state of consciousness. In fact they are as follows:

1.Sleeping Consciousness
2.Dreaming.....
3.Waking.....
4.Ascendant....
5.Perpetual .....
6.Exalted
7.Unity..... (aka Enlightenment or Full Human Consciousness)

Brahman.....
and so on and so forth.........

[The Frozen One]

And by calling me immature you have assumed my age and shown your ignorance. Further, you have attempted to insult me and therefore by your own standards you are too young to not know enough not to insult people.

So you are either: stupid, or a hypocrite, or both, or most likely too stupid to know you were being hypocritcal in your attempted insult.

But, don't worry for insults are just "names" and "the name that can be named is not the enduring and unchanging name."

:bigsmile: I think your right when you say im being a hypocrit but atleast i didn't go as low as to say someone's six... thats not very creative. I do think your funny though

[russian]

:bigsmile: I think your right when you say im being a hypocrit but atleast i didn't go as low as to say someone's six... thats not very creative. I do think your funny though

He said he thought of his "philosophy" when he was 6.

I pointed out that there were some rather obvious contradictions in his statement.

I then ASKED HIM if he was still 6.

I never said he was 6.

Please read posts in their entirety before you call some one "not very creative."

I get the feeling it might be easier to talk to you if I wrote using crayons.

[The Frozen One]

well personally i think crayons aren't the greatest... I think it'd be in our best interests to stop talking about age now...and i've got to get to school.