If you had a

[Chocolate GOD]

if you were a grey, and won an extra assasin, would you put it on the board? in place of, say, a pyromancer?

come to think of it, what would YOU place as the most important grey to keep?

heres mine

knight/lightning ward
scout/assasin
cleric
witch
chanty/barrier
pyromancer

[gryph89]

The extra assassin would make the form quicker, but the Pyro would allow more range and a spread of damage.

It's all up to what type of strategy you would want to play, or have more comfortable playing. If you're relying on melee with a witch backup and by all means go with the assassin. But if you want other ranged units, capable of breaking a focus, or hitting units from over one square away then go with the pyro

[Bottled]

I personally have no use for the chanty...i would replace it.

[Chocolate GOD]

lol i dont use the chanty much either. i need to perfect her, havent done so yet.

but i think the witch is better than the pyro in almost all circumstances....rarely does the pyro hit more than the witch, plus the witch can one hit the cleric.

[*Sanosuke*]

Chanties are the bestest for the greynubs.

[Faulty Logic]

you all have no idea.

the chanty is the only unit that makes a grey formidable against a gold. Learn to use her. The pyro is useless for a grey. The spread damage is too insignificant. Plus you probably cannot use the spread effectively if you don't understand the usefulness of the chanty. My advise is to swap the pyro for the B-ward, and swap the other pyro, (why would you ever use 2?) for the chanty. I'll post my formation up later. But seriously you have to learn the majesty of the chanty. She saves lives.


** Edit plus I'm 90% sure that the ass bomb only works if it's the only one left on your side... so having two would be dumb.
--FL

***edit, sanoukse beat me to it... god we think alike don't we?

[gryph89]

If you're refering to my post about the assassin. I wasn't refering to using the Ass bomb, simply that the assassin is a very movable unit for greys.

[bobo99]

you all have no idea.

the chanty is the only unit that makes a grey formidable against a gold. Learn to use her. The pyro is useless for a grey. The spread damage is too insignificant. Plus you probably cannot use the spread effectively if you don't understand the usefulness of the chanty. My advise is to swap the pyro for the B-ward, and swap the other pyro, (why would you ever use 2?) for the chanty. I'll post my formation up later. But seriously you have to learn the majesty of the chanty. She saves lives.

If your talking about the pyro being useless agains't golds, thats an arguement. But, grey vs grey, I love pyros. Sure, a chanty is helpful, but it is far from needed, in my regular grey set I use a pyro in place of chanty.

[steve12]

Cleric
Scout
Enchantress
Knight
Dark Magic Witch
Pyromancer
Barrier Ward
Assassin
Lightning Ward

[pils]

you all have no idea.

the chanty is the only unit that makes a grey formidable against a gold. Learn to use her. The pyro is useless for a grey. The spread damage is too insignificant. Plus you probably cannot use the spread effectively if you don't understand the usefulness of the chanty. My advise is to swap the pyro for the B-ward, and swap the other pyro, (why would you ever use 2?) for the chanty. I'll post my formation up later. But seriously you have to learn the majesty of the chanty. She saves lives.


** Edit plus I'm 90% sure that the ass bomb only works if it's the only one left on your side... so having two would be dumb.
--FL

***edit, sanoukse beat me to it... god we think alike don't we?

Talk about having no idea what you are talking about....
You have much to learn in the ways of pyro-pwntar.

[A-99]

Cleric (for obvious reasons)
Scout - Scouts vital to all greys for breaking focus' hitting pyros, clerics and witches. only one of them as well
Knight - if you lose one early on, its gonna be tough
Lightning ward
Witch
Barrier Ward
Assassin
Chanty
Pyromancer

[Faulty Logic]

no. I like pyro's.... but when it comes to the people asking the questions, I do not think he could use a pyro and 2 sassy's in a good combo. Others, yes, him, no. I myself can and do use pyros when I choose not to play a chanty set. However, I am partial to my chant and feel naked playing w/o. I think the Pyro allows or more versatility, while the chanty is assured (if you know what you are doing). And yes, I was talking about playing golds when I made that statement. I think a good chanty set will 9/10 defeat any other grey set. there just arent enough ranged units to effectively overwhelm a well played chanty game.

--people who use pyros well can use them to torment formations, those who dont end up playing with a wasted unit on the field.

[steve12]

He never said he would have all 3 units on there. He only talked about replacing one with another.

Why are you jumping to conclusions and saying obvious facts about grey units?

[Faulty Logic]

meh. I mis read one of Chocolates posts, and the combination of low patience right now.... yeah.. you get eh picture... sorry if I came off too rash.

YEah.... kids at my b-school are so immature and the just nonstop stupidness has put me in a horribly sarcastic mood. Sorry chocolate it was not my place to be a jerk.

thanks steve for bringin me back to reality.

--';)
--FL

[Chocolate GOD]

my own opinion is, unless the other side has lost their cleric, in greys the pyro simply doesnt do enough damage to help in the long run. plus its a fairly rare occurence for the enemy to get in a cross while fairly common to get in a line.

I hesitated with using 2 assasins precisely because of the ass bomb and its 1 assasin rule.

I know everyone says the chanty is amazing, but in simple honest truth, if the other side is good enough and keeps spread with someone checking the barrier ward, the chanty's dust. unless the other side's scout happens to be dead and all his units in a lump.

[Lonely Tylenol]

you all have no idea.

the chanty is the only unit that makes a grey formidable against a gold. Learn to use her. The pyro is useless for a grey. The spread damage is too insignificant. Plus you probably cannot use the spread effectively if you don't understand the usefulness of the chanty. My advise is to swap the pyro for the B-ward, and swap the other pyro, (why would you ever use 2?) for the chanty. I'll post my formation up later. But seriously you have to learn the majesty of the chanty. She saves lives.

Um, no?

I toppled top golds left and right without ever using an Enchantress.

In fact, in a large number of the games I've played grey vs. gold my Pyromancers were essential to winning, but an Enchantress would have been dead weight.

Pyromancers are, without a doubt, the best controlled-fire units in the grey game--surpassing even the Scout, in my opinion. Although the Scout has better total range and can target single panels, attacks are easily blocked off by line of sight, are blockable, are easily countered and often the Scout is used for reasons other than control fire. A Pyromancer can use its versatile range to defocus and de-shrub, hit multiple units (which is useful both before and after the Cleric is dead, as--hello--guess which unit can guarantee a negation of a heal!), and work around your own defenses, all more effectively than a Witch. In fact, against a gold, I make sure I have both my Pyromancers in tow, because they are the single most versatile defense-breaker the grey game has to offer.

And... Get this... All of these benefits are drastically increased with two Pyromancers on the field! Not to mention additional benefits to Pyro usage with extras... Have you ever staged a home-side defense with two Pyromancers before? I have a hard time believing such a vast majority of the grey community discards this little gem.

It seriously makes me sad in the pants when someone professing knowledge of the grey game says the Pyromancer is useless (and in so many ways, too!), but what's especially disturbing to me is when people chime in in agreement... Thank you pils for setting the good people straight! :happy:

[Soda]

Do I really need to say anything? I am sure you all know what I think of the enchantress vs pyromancer matter.

[steve12]

meh. I mis read one of Chocolates posts, and the combination of low patience right now.... yeah.. you get eh picture... sorry if I came off too rash.

YEah.... kids at my b-school are so immature and the just nonstop stupidness has put me in a horribly sarcastic mood. Sorry chocolate it was not my place to be a jerk.

thanks steve for bringin me back to reality.

--';)
--FL

Heh, it happens to the best of us. No worries.

[pils]

no. I like pyro's.... but when it comes to the people asking the questions, I do not think he could use a pyro and 2 sassy's in a good combo. Others, yes, him, no. I myself can and do use pyros when I choose not to play a chanty set. However, I am partial to my chant and feel naked playing w/o. I think the Pyro allows or more versatility, while the chanty is assured (if you know what you are doing). And yes, I was talking about playing golds when I made that statement. I think a good chanty set will 9/10 defeat any other grey set. there just arent enough ranged units to effectively overwhelm a well played chanty game.

--people who use pyros well can use them to torment formations, those who dont end up playing with a wasted unit on the field.

I must direct you to LTs post. :)
But in my experience, gold or grey pyros > wards.

[Chocolate GOD]

I still dont get it though. the pyro cant one hit anything, so rarely is he used for suicide missions, unlike the dark magic witch. his attacks simply too low (once i beat a 10 pyro setup losing only 2 knights and a witch) and he usually has to get close enough to a target to attack him for it to be considered almost suicide with his 3 turn recovery (unless you have a barrier ward or he is hiding behind others).

Lonely said that pyros are the best defence breakers for greys. i dont see how that is true. a well-coordinated knight charge, maybe, a scout picking out the mages and cleric from behind, maybe, an assasin that managed to get behind the front lines, maybe, but a pyro that cant cause a serious threat to anyone in one move and is usually only able to damage the knights cause they are up front(11 damage?)? how is that the best defence breaker?

Dont flame me, just suggest. i just dont see the connection.

[Japanese Girl]

because knights can't block it and if you use them right you can easily hit four units at a time if not five. the pyromancer is a great defense breaker when you kill the cleric because the knight or any unit unless barrier warded for that matter will get damaged and after the cleric is gone that 11 damage minimum in a grey vs. grey game really adds up.

[gryph89]

I still dont get it though. the pyro cant one hit anything, so rarely is he used for suicide missions, unlike the dark magic witch. his attacks simply too low (once i beat a 10 pyro setup losing only 2 knights and a witch) and he usually has to get close enough to a target to attack him for it to be considered almost suicide with his 3 turn recovery (unless you have a barrier ward or he is hiding behind others).

Lonely said that pyros are the best defence breakers for greys. i dont see how that is true. a well-coordinated knight charge, maybe, a scout picking out the mages and cleric from behind, maybe, an assasin that managed to get behind the front lines, maybe, but a pyro that cant cause a serious threat to anyone in one move and is usually only able to damage the knights cause they are up front(11 damage?)? how is that the best defence breaker?

Dont flame me, just suggest. i just dont see the connection.

It's easy to come up with one type of solution. But you forget, everyone has their own playing style, thus giving you way too many variables to include, so you can't truly bash a unit for effectiveness, or give it one sole purpose.

When the cleric dies, pyro's are a godsend since they can spread out damage among units quite easily. And everyone knowns a well organized attack would most of the time rip apart a spread out units looking for refuge.

[bloodreign]

I personaly would replace the pyromancer... the witch is good at catching opponents scouts, and is always a threat to clerics.

The only advantage of the pyro in "my" book is the ability to shoot over your friendly units, weakening an onrushing enemy.... a witch in this scenario must shoot through a friendly unit, or emerge from the safety of the turtle.

And yes the two units i believe are most tide turning in a grey vs gold game are the chanty and the assassin.

I agree with FAULTY LOGIC here.

[Scorpionz]

Yeah, in my grey setup I have a BW and Chanty instead of the pyros.

[Chocolate GOD]

because knights can't block it and if you use them right you can easily hit four units at a time if not five. the pyromancer is a great defense breaker when you kill the cleric because the knight or any unit unless barrier warded for that matter will get damaged and after the cleric is gone that 11 damage minimum in a grey vs. grey game really adds up.

Might want to point out here that knights can't block dark magic witches either....or ass bombs....or lightning wards...or most gold units...(golem tyrant etc.)so what makes the pyro a viable replacement for any of these?

yeah, the pyro can shoot over others. generally i still like to use the witch though. denting one of your knights while killing one of the enemy is always a good move in my book.

I find warriors and particularly scouts far more useful than assasins in grey vs gold games. assasins generally die too fast and have too low damage output unless you happen to have a good combination of luck and barrier wards.

I understand that everyone has their own playing styles, it's just that I win more games than the BM than the pyro, so it might be useful for some ppl to try it out.

[Shiznit]

I personally think the pyromancer is useless. Its really a waste of space. Why would you waste a chanty, or scout, or knight for that matter, for a 11 damage pyro? It doesn't make sense.

I also think that a chanty is necessary in a set, specifically turt. It adds to the defense. With the chanty, you need a bw also... So thats already taking out 1 pyro, if your starting with all the original pieces. Also... You'll probably need a lw for your defense also.

Just my opinion. :)

[XeqtR]

I would never use a second assassin. After all, all I use it for is its bombing capabilities. I safeguard my scout as my main ranged unit and assassin (as a ranged one) is used only in tight situations.