some ideas on tcbb's strategy

[Wastl]

i found this link (http://www.tacticsarena.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7183) not long ago. it might be quite dated already, however i only started to play TAO a few weeks ago and it helped me a lot. i got interested in tcbb's calculation and tried to improve it. the reason was this: when there were no more mages, the wards caused suddenly a division by zero because they have a sideblock ability of 100, which means, their lives skyrocketed to the infinite, which is not quite true if you consider that u can paralyze a ward and reduce its lifepoints. also the number of attackers influenced the real life in the opposite way: the more attackers there were, the higher were the calculated lifepoints. that didn't seem right.

basically it is a lot of guesswork. i would appreciate if u could do some calculations with the formula and comment on it if it makes sense or not:

#a: number of attackers
#m: number of mages
#p: number of pieces (of just one party - i believe it makes sense to put in either your own or the opponents number of pieces, both times the results point in the right direction)
L: actual life points
sb: side block
ar: armor

real life = ((#p/13 - (#a-#p)/#p)*(L/(1-ar))*((1+sb)*((#a-#m)/#a))

some explanation:
the central part is L/(1-ar) which is about as straightforward as it can get: if you multiply by a number between 0 and 1 the result will get smaller, if you divide by a number between 0 and 1, the result will get more, which is quite obvious. in this case u divide the actual lifepoints by 1-ar, ar being the armor. the higher the armor (0,25 for the knights for instance) the smaller will be 1-ar. if the armor is 0, then 1-0 will be still 1 and your lifepoints divided by 1 will remain the same. i guess this is quite obvious, so i skip more explanation.
the next part in tcbb's calculation was that he divided the L/(1-ar) by (1-sb*(1-#m/#a)). the reasoning is really beautiful, if u appreciate math: if all your attackers are mages, then your blocking ability is worth nothing, so the division by 1 leaves your lifepoints unchanged. but what if there are NO mages? here started the problem: if you have 0 mages and blocking is 1, then you divide by 0, which only makes sense if the pieces in question (the wards are the only pieces with blocking equal to 1) cannot be hit anymore, which they can, as long u have a frosty or a chanty. so instead of dividing the calculated blocking and its relation to attackers to mages i decided to multiply the blocking. the trick was to add a little 1 to the whole thing. if the number of attackers equals the number of mages, then #a-#m will be 0 and sb*0 will be 0, leaving the 1 to multiply with your lifepoints or leaving these lifepoints untouched. if there are less mages than attackers your blocking ability kicks into action and the real lifepoints get higher. i checked the formula and got more or less the same results as did tcbb, also if u add the additional 0,3 armor coming from the stone golem.
finally i wanted to find out if there is a way to appreciate the actual number of pieces compared to the number of attackers and how this influences the real lifepoints. here i did a lot of guesswork, as you can see with the number 13 in the denominator. this is were u guys could help: are the results making sense?

i agree that this bloody calculation doesn't help u much when u are facing a skilled opponent, but it kind of gives u a feeling how the value of your pieces changes considering the opponent u face (a guy with 2 frosties and 2 cleriks and maybe even a ward or a furgon has only 5 or 6 attackers left, which changes the real life your pieces are having. and that's probably all this calculation is worth. when i first found tcbb's calculation it helped me quite a bit because i realized that many pieces on the field are not quite what they appear to be. his explanations also helped a lot. my intention is to improve his formula and discuss with u how the math can maybe even made more precise. at the moment the formula is quite crude: the different regeneration times are not at all taken into consideration, to name just one.

[Liquid Swordsman]

the only time I ever played tcbb I beat him :cool:

[A-99]

The only question that I ask is why would you even use that. You're gonna spend a couple of minutes working that out while your opponent just sits there ;). It's pretty pointless if you ask me because look at L. Swordsman, he beat tcbb, did that formula help tcbb? Nope. Now you say that this formula doesn't help when facing a skilled opponent (ex: Mag, Pun, AU, etc) so why even use it on a terrible or even average player ;). You can beat them without it. Strategy wins games in TAO, the only thing math is needed for is deciphering how much damage your unit will do to it's target. But hey, thats just my opinion, if you like it, use it.

[steve12]

Situations in-game don't revolve around real-life formulas like this. Placement and other factors have greater impacts.

[A-99]

I agree with Steve. Placement is pretty key.

Also, when calculating the value of your pieces, I think it's pretty self-explanatory how valuable they are. If you have 2 attackers, 1 frost and a cleric, against 5 attackers and a cleric, its pretty obvious that you need to protect your attackers and play defense.

You don't need a formula to realize "hey I've got 3 attackers to his 6, this isn't good"

[monkus]

You don't need a formula to realize "hey I've got 3 attackers to his 6, this isn't good"

Lies! This is my optimal situation. Winning only counts when it's at absurd odds.

[A-99]

lolz.

I never said you couldn't win, I was merely stating that you don't need a formula to work out something thats common sense.

[bloodreign]

Wow, why did you have to take a beautiful game like tao and ruin it with math.......j/k but these calculations are hogshmogery in real time.

True LW's have 100% blocking but you can't win a game with it as your end game piece, and if your opponent has a cleric, he can heal any damage done by your limited range LW.

Do all the calculations you want, but the most important thing is placement/strategy/ and exploiting your opponents weaknesses.

[Wastl]

well thanks for the comments so far. i agree that this calculation doesnt help you much when u are in a game, and experience is definitely superior to a formula. however, when i started this game a few weeks ago there wasnt much i found in the net that helped me to face my opponents and this post by tcbb was VERY helpful compared to most others. of course nad's LOS and chanty lessons are still the best help for any noob, but what else is there in the vast (and often empty) spaces of the internet? if you know any other sites that teach placement (not formations, i found plenty of those) and strategy, please tell me.

[Vailan]

Hey Wastl,

I think that these calculations can help you analyze scenarios that aren't in real time. So I think that they can help you get better, however, secondary to experience, as has been mentioned many times. A long time ago, I read Tcbb's post and I learned a lot from it. It just makes you realize that there is more than meets the eye with every unit in TAO.

EDIT:
Btw, when I was in HS 3 years ago, there was a hated standardized test called the WASTL... It's a regular joke in Washington State. So every time I see your name I just laugh :)

[Liquid Swordsman]

I think honestly the most important part of the game besides level of skill for the most part is your set up. In most of my games, that's what it mostly comes down too, who's set up is geared more towards beating their oppenents. Like, a one sided rush is on the same side as someone turtling, clearly the rusher has a massive advantage, but if the rusher is on the oppisite side of the arena as the turtler, then the turtle gains a huge amount of advantage.

[Wisher]

You win or you lose.

[rabbi]

Do all the calculations you want, but the most important thing is placement/strategy/ and exploiting your opponents weaknesses.

I agree with ya there...placement along with strategy is key;)