I need some help

[Liquid Swordsman]

Honestly, I'm completely torn between which formation I want to use. I've pretty much narrowed it down to one of these two, or something close to it anyway. My biggest problem is I can't decide if I want to keep the dragon in or not, subbing it out for a whisp/furgy.

form 1
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v381/XBlackxDragonX/form1.jpg

form 2
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v381/XBlackxDragonX/form2.jpg

[rabbi]

I wouldn''t technically use that set but if i were to, id use the first:P

[Liquid Swordsman]

turtling is my thing

[rabbi]

Maybe you can give me some help... i used to turt until i realized everyone whoops my ass...im pretty good at free though!

[Liquid Swordsman]

I just hate being spread all across the board, I like my guys to be in one concentrated area. That backfires when I get dsm rushed though ;\

[rabbi]

yeah, i agree.

Dsm rush isnt good against any turt ;)

[Megabyte]

If I were going to use the two, as are, I'd vote for the second.


If I was given the option of some leeway, I'd take the units from the first one and alter their positioning a bit. I'd prefer something like this...

http://img111.imageshack.us/img111/3876/turtle1gq3.jpg[/URL]

Or even switch the scout in front of the cleric with the dragon, depending on what you like.


Edit: Have you considered a defensive spread, or non-sg turtle? Those are my favorite types. They're basically grey bowl setups (i.e. the grey turtles) making use of gold units. They keep the defensive composition, and you get a bit more attacking unit variety involved. Gives you a bit few more options in how to handle, and it still does well against a bomb.

[Mithrandir]

The way current playing styles are these days, it'd be tough to beat a rush using a dragonless turt.

[Lord Sesshomaru]

Neither.
They both suck.

[Punishment]

I would say use the first one.

Mega, with a back row set like that, a mud can do a lot more damage than with a second row set, and thusly, i think he should use the one he posted before yours, but I'm not sure how he plays so iduno.

[Liquid Swordsman]

If I were going to use the two, as are, I'd vote for the second.


If I was given the option of some leeway, I'd take the units from the first one and alter their positioning a bit. I'd prefer something like this...

http://img111.imageshack.us/img111/3876/turtle1gq3.jpg[/URL]

Or even switch the scout in front of the cleric with the dragon, depending on what you like.


Edit: Have you considered a defensive spread, or non-sg turtle? Those are my favorite types. They're basically grey bowl setups (i.e. the grey turtles) making use of gold units. They keep the defensive composition, and you get a bit more attacking unit variety involved. Gives you a bit few more options in how to handle, and it still does well against a bomb.


My old favorite form was something like this, I don't remember it exactly but you get the picture

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v381/XBlackxDragonX/form3.jpg

However, I used this form mostly on Legends where it was way more effective, subbing out the 2nd scout for a cleric. With the two clerics it allowed you to stand a chance against an oppisite side turtle. I don't know how well it would work with the 2nd scout instead of a cleric. And, if your facing a same side, you could send in the mud to break focus/hurt cleric then either heal twice and retreat - or use the GA to finish the cleric off.

[Megabyte]

Mega, with a back row set like that, a mud can do a lot more damage than with a second row set, and thusly, i think he should use the one he posted before yours, but I'm not sure how he plays so iduno.

True, but with each setup you prioritize the units that will be the biggest threat. If they have a mud, and it's in a position to hurt you, take it out.


Reversely, any casters or scouts would be able to disrupt his original vs mine much more readily, due to the more forward placement of the units.


It's all give and take.

edit: MY absolute favorite setup, of all time, is a more dual line spread (or something very close to this)...
http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/2945/spread1dz4.jpg


Basic unit composition, but versatility. Gotta know your basics really well, but it's equally effective against anything. Has the offensive capability to bust through turtles, the defensive ability to work through a rush, and the spread of the units ensures that a bomb can't do "too much" damage early on (no way to hit more than 2 units at a time from the get-go).

My own gripe against a stony turtle is that it's major weakness is the cleric. If you lose that, the turtle crumbles since most don't have the offensive ability to push into your opponent and try to outmaneuver him (quickly) for a win. Any setup which has that much reliance on a single unit I never work THAT well with, it's why I've never done well with bombs.

[Punishment]

True, but with each setup you prioritize the units that will be the biggest threat. If they have a mud, and it's in a position to hurt you, take it out.


Reversely, any casters or scouts would be able to disrupt his original vs mine much more readily, due to the more forward placement of the units.


It's all give and take.

edit: MY absolute favorite setup, of all time, is a more dual line spread (or something very close to this)...
http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/2945/spread1dz4.jpg


Basic unit composition, but versatility. Gotta know your basics really well, but it's equally effective against anything. Has the offensive capability to bust through turtles, the defensive ability to work through a rush, and the spread of the units ensures that a bomb can't do "too much" damage early on (no way to hit more than 2 units at a time from the get-go).

My own gripe against a stony turtle is that it's major weakness is the cleric. If you lose that, the turtle crumbles since most don't have the offensive ability to push into your opponent and try to outmaneuver him (quickly) for a win. Any setup which has that much reliance on a single unit I never work THAT well with, it's why I've never done well with bombs.

Well, while it's true that if a mud is in a position to hurt you right away you must take it out quickly, it is also easier to avoid a mud problem altogether by changing your setup, I think. That said , I do use a setup quite similar to backrow one you posted with some small differences (such as all los blocked to cleric)

That said, this is my favorite freestyle turtle set of all time.
http://workershowercam.com/favset.jpg

Mega, the set you posted looks quite interesting, but today against all of the anti-rushes, your cleric is in immediate danger from a dragon attack, and while you will get their dragon, i think losing your cleric that early is trouble -- So basically you have to waste a turn in the beginning to save a unit.

[A-99]

Well I'm not a pro like Mega or Pun, but I'd go with the 1st set and rearrange it to Mega's suggestion. The knights are in great position to fend off any ranging scouts and a stoned dragon is very difficult to kill.

@ Mega, as Pun pointed out, many Anti's have the dragon 3-4 squares out from the side of the arena, making it very easy to kill your cleric on their first turn. To block this, you'd probably move a knight in front of the cleric on you're turn, but then one of your archers or mud is vulnerable. If you moved an archer back, you've lost you're offensive pressure on the opponents mud/cleric/frost.
But its all how you play I suppose.