Martin Luther King, Jr. day

[ben66]

I thought this thread would be appropriate on a holiday such as this. Me being an African American myself am proud to know that we had such a role model and public defender for our Civil Rights Movement. I thougth it would be appropriate to just take a thread and hear some responses about what you thought about the Civil Rights Movement and the leaders we've had. From Frederick Douglas all the way up to Martin Luther King, Jr. Possibly if your a rather creative person you could somehow work Jesse Jackson into the conversation (although I hope not).

Once again please reply and tell me your thoughts about the assassiantion, the role of the President through all periods. It's a crying shame that most of our schools don't really embody the true Civil Rights Movement. And all of your teachers who say the Civil Rights Movement has a date, just chuckle to yourself and say, "We are all constantly fighting for equality. White, black or any other color racism is always imminent and to even suggest that we have reached this equilibrium is not only ignorant but unjust." Your teacher might laugh, or she might throw you out of the class. Either way, just know that we should take time today and reflect that Martin Luther King Jr. not only fought for the rights of African Americans but in a way for all races of the world.

[pils]

fuccckkkk you niggggaaaa!!!!!


:dry:

Was it worth the ban?

[ben66]

fuccckkkk you niggggaaaa!!!!!


:dry:


Guess I provoked someone in my statements. Hey pils check the thread "What do you do when your bored". He made another lovely post just like it.

[Duplicity]

fuccckkkk you niggggaaaa!!!!!


:dry:

You've just won the You're A Box of Shit Award. Congratulations, you box of shit.

[Jeffery]

You provoked nothing. He started his banspam in other threads. Him and his posts will be gone soon.

[ben66]

Possibly the pressure of the forums got to him. :)

[Supersmiley :-)]

Wow lets get a mod in here :dry:

[Jeffery]

Possibly the pressure of the forums got to him. :)
My guess is that he will claim he was either hacked or "his brother/friend/cousin/dog" did it.

[ben66]

My guess is that he will claim he was either hacked or "his brother/friend/cousin/dog" did it.

This kind of destroyed my thread. Now everyone is talking about his rude post and not about MLK! Ah, oh well.

[Supersmiley :-)]

maybe hes just a noob

[Jeffery]

This kind of destroyed my thread. Now everyone is talking about his rude post and not about MLK! Ah, oh well.
I'm sure a mod can split off the crap.

[ben66]

maybe hes just a noob


479 posts? I think he'd know by now. No level of noobishness promotes this behavior in any place.

[Jeffery]

479 posts? I think he'd know by now. No level of noobishness promotes this behavior in any place.
Actually, noobliness explains it all. He is simply not a newbie.

[ben66]

As some people have seen ive been very inactive on these forums. I'm in the middle of a Runescape addiction and i'm no longer posting or playing TAO. I just wanted to post this to let anyone... .



Well I found that post in his history. Maybe he's doing this because he doesn't care about being banned or about TAO any longer. Pretty immature :/

[Supersmiley :-)]

logical...you should be a detective or something

[uniquinous]

you seem to be a bit trigger happy with the new threads. what is this? third one in the first 2 days of signing up here? aaaaanyway....

Me being an African American myself am proud to know that we had such a role model and public defender for our Civil Rights Movement.
If you think it is "your" Civil Rights Movement, I think you missed the point...



On another note: I saw this great speaker a few years back talk about, well, everything on this topic. I think the thing that jostled me the most was the timeline. Youngins these days (myself included) tend to forget that this wasn't some ancient history - this was something that our grandparents directly experienced. MLK and US racial segregation was ended in the 1960s. So, world war II, and into the hippie era, all had that large-scale prejudice.

Your parents remember that.

[dirka dirka]

Yea, wow... whats this world coming to, celebrating a tragedy.

[ben66]

you seem to be a bit trigger happy with the new threads. what is this? third one in the first 2 days of signing up here? aaaaanyway....


If you think it is "your" Civil Rights Movement, I think you missed the point...



On another note: I saw this great speaker a few years back talk about, well, everything on this topic. I think the thing that jostled me the most was the timeline. Youngins these days (myself included) tend to forget that this wasn't some ancient history - this was something that our grandparents directly experienced. MLK and US racial segregation was ended in the 1960s. So, world war II, and into the hippie era, all had that large-scale prejudice.

Your parents remember that.

Yeah, I wouldn't say MLK and US racial segregation was ended in the 1960's though. I believe that something as strong as hatred toward another race that has been built up for hundreds of years dies during one's lifetime. We still have a long ways to go before we can sit down and truly end racial segregation. It becomes obvious...so many places we go to we find that one shop has predominantly white people or predominantly black people, mexican or whatever. Not enough places in America where culture integration has happened, and probably because people are still reluctant. I'm a black kid and my friends used to use the word "white" as an insult. If you talk well they say, "What are you a white boy?". It's insane, we need to fix it and it needs changing now. MLK did however lay down the smack on racism and made a much major taboo in all instances.

[Ächilles]

Yea, wow... whats this world coming to, celebrating a tragedy.

I think it's more remembering the person, not celebrating the fact that he was shot.

I think it is twisted though. Take 9/11 for example. I think remember what happened is important, but instead people just spend all day watching news stories on what we already know happened. Why not pay tribute to those who were brave that day rather than commercialize the tra... oh yeah, we're in America.

[*Sanosuke*]

MLK, Jr. Day is all about commerating the man's selfless achievements. In his "I Have a Dream" speech, he's not only fiting for the people that are of African American and Caucasion races but for everyone. Just segregation period. He mentions doing this for his children as much as the people across america and we are commending him for his deeds and actions. Even though MLK Jr. Wasn't the only one, he was the most known/popular Civil Rights activist and we should all respect his accomplishments.

[dirka dirka]

I think it's more remembering the person, not celebrating the fact that he was shot.

I think it is twisted though. Take 9/11 for example. I think remember what happened is important, but instead people just spend all day watching news stories on what we already know happened. Why not pay tribute to those who were brave that day rather than commercialize the tra... oh yeah, we're in America.

No doubt 20 years from now 9/11 will be a national holiday. If it isn't already. Chips and salsa anybody?

[Ächilles]

Oh yeah, it definitely will. We'll all be sitting on the beach watching fireworks and having cookouts.

I have nothing wrong with stopping for a moment on the anniversary and taking some time to remember what happened. I think that's important, to be mindful of past tragedies as to both honor the dead and learn from our mistakes. But to do a two hour special on FOX showing explosions and buildings falling and dead fire fighters' wives is.... just as we established, commercialization of death.

But I think you were wrong on MLK Day. It's not like that. But unfortunately, it's not like that due to people wanting to honor him, but rather as a lack of them believing it's worth sparklers and hamburgers. I wonder if they'd celebrate it as so if it was in August as opposed to February.

[Teacher]

He was a great speaker, and paved the road for society to make some great changes. However, I personally do not agree that this should be a holiday.

[Jeffery]

National holidays are overblown.

This is one of those days that should be for learning. Don't close anything.

Keep kids in school, and make them have a 2 hour lecture on what the hell happened.

[Teacher]

I agree with this. To be honest, I remember maybe a day studying on him in depth in a history course. Other than that, I really don't remember much about the man without looking up some of the history. You would think if the holiday is there to help people remember, they would put a little more of it in the curriculum. (They may have by now, so if that is the case, I apologize.)

[ben66]

National holidays are overblown.

This is one of those days that should be for learning. Don't close anything.

Keep kids in school, and make them have a 2 hour lecture on what the hell happened.


It's a crying shame. If you ever see a middle schooler, ask to see his/her social studies textbook. They dilute the hell out of everything that happens in history. It won't be soon be 9/11 is just a trivial afterthought, not a national holiday. Look at how people treated the Oklahoma City Bombing. It's almost like a trivia. "What happened this day 20 years ago?" "Uh, I don't know" "The Oklahoma City bombings!" "Oh yeah...who gives a shit?" That's how watered down things will get.

[uniquinous]

yeah i agree - why do we call horrible events "holidays"? oh yeah, cuz we get off from work/school

[Scorpionz]

I thought this thread would be appropriate on a holiday such as this. Me being an African American myself am proud to know that we had such a role model and public defender for our Civil Rights Movement. I thougth it would be appropriate to just take a thread and hear some responses about what you thought about the Civil Rights Movement and the leaders we've had. From Frederick Douglas all the way up to Martin Luther King, Jr. Possibly if your a rather creative person you could somehow work Jesse Jackson into the conversation (although I hope not).

Once again please reply and tell me your thoughts about the assassiantion, the role of the President through all periods. It's a crying shame that most of our schools don't really embody the true Civil Rights Movement. And all of your teachers who say the Civil Rights Movement has a date, just chuckle to yourself and say, "We are all constantly fighting for equality. White, black or any other color racism is always imminent and to even suggest that we have reached this equilibrium is not only ignorant but unjust." Your teacher might laugh, or she might throw you out of the class. Either way, just know that we should take time today and reflect that Martin Luther King Jr. not only fought for the rights of African Americans but in a way for all races of the world.

I don't know why you call Africans African-American. Can't it just be American now? >_>

We call our genious friends around here Aboriginals.

http://www.outbackphoto.com/nature/2001/australia_1/Aboriginals.jpg

Smile!

[Snowolf]

ben dont make enemies trust me

[gryph89]

I agree with this. To be honest, I remember maybe a day studying on him in depth in a history course. Other than that, I really don't remember much about the man without looking up some of the history. You would think if the holiday is there to help people remember, they would put a little more of it in the curriculum. (They may have by now, so if that is the case, I apologize.)

Back when I was in HighSchool, my US History Teacher (Mr. Pierce) Spent nearly a month teaching us about him. Despite being a hardass, he was probably one of the greatest teachers I ever had, and I greatly respect him.

We focused on everything during that time period of Segregation (e or a...wow I'm bad lol) Tested weekly, on absolutely everything he did, along with Malcom X and JFK during that time.

[dirka dirka]

Its more, to me, that people don't celebrate Martin Luther King, Jr. Day, rather they celebrate No Work, Party Like Its New Years Again Day. Same with Christmas, it's turned into an excuse to exchange presents. I'm not even Christian and I still have to buy people presents!

[Teacher]

Back when I was in HighSchool, my US History Teacher (Mr. Pierce) Spent nearly a month teaching us about him. Despite being a hardass, he was probably one of the greatest teachers I ever had, and I greatly respect him.

We focused on everything during that time period of Segregation (e or a...wow I'm bad lol) Tested weekly, on absolutely everything he did, along with Malcom X and JFK during that time.

I don't know if it is because my school district did not consider it pertinent information or if my teacher just chose not to get too enveloped. We went over only what was in our text books, and at most I think there might have been two pages on him.

I do remember speaking to my granny (she raised me, and I wasn't allowed to call her grandma) about him, and her response was that he was a "peaceful Hitler". Both apparently were good with words and motivating a crowd. To be honest, I never got interested enough to bother reading someone else's take on the subjects. She wasn't completely racist, but she was raised to be against mix couples. So I don't think her view was completely biased..lol

[ben66]

Shows where we're at in society. Shows where our kids are at. You know what my teachers said to me before I left on Friday? Enjoy your 3 day vacation. This is all this is. A day to relax chill and sit on your ass, a free pass for everyone. If that's the case we need to make a "National Day of inactivity" where nothing is to be done and no stores opened and just hospitals and needs like that being opened. Then you can say "Enjoy your 3 day break". If the government's intentions on making MLK day a holiday was to give everyone the day off then I guess they really shouldn't bull shit with these programs that are on TV all day. Either you immerse yourself and bask in MLK's greatness or you just fall into the millions who have been rewarded with a day off and think nothing more of it. I'm not saying don't enjoy the day, but don't mark it on your calender as, "Yay, I get a free day."

That's all I got to say. MLK day is over in 1 hour just about so I will stop posting in this thread as it is no longer pertinent to the continuous buzz of our society. :(

[ben66]

ben dont make enemies trust me

I've been here at TAO for 4 years and on these forums for about the same length of time whether this account is new or not. Thank you though, but I know these people for the most part and what will set someone off. ;)

[***Duo***]

I've been here at TAO for 4 years and on these forums for about the same length of time whether this account is new or not. Thank you though, but I know these people for the most part and what will set someone off. ;)

Why do people insist on making this claim?


-Duo

[Zander]

The longer you've been playing internet games the cooler you are.

[Jeffery]

The longer you've been playing internet games the cooler you are.
Hell, I've been playing internet games since 1993. Maybe that explains my awesomenesser abilities.

[Zander]

I don't know where this number came from, but aren't you 36? What makes someone start playing internet games at the age of 21?
Then again, it was a new thing at the time, and I'm sure people of various ages were checking it out...

[Sangro]

that was quite a mighty observation zander

[***Duo***]

I don't know where this number came from, but aren't you 36? What makes someone start playing internet games at the age of 21?
Then again, it was a new thing at the time, and I'm sure people of various ages were checking it out...

He was 17, apparently.


-Duo

[uniquinous]

I'm not saying don't enjoy the day, but don't mark it on your calender as, "Yay, I get a free day." What should people mark it as? I'm sorry to say but, we don't need a day to remember someone, especially if that day is then followed by "black history month". Live it everyday, and save the "holiday". Hey, at least corporate america hasn't been pompous enough for "save big! at our MLK holiday super special sale prices!"

Why do people insist on making this claim?cuz they think people will like them more. i dunno bout you, but i dont remember some music nut who's been here for 4 years. i'm guessing he might have popped by 4 years ago and hasn't been back since. then again, i dont remember anyone of that description back then either. then again, i dont remember anything that long ago...

[ben66]

What should people mark it as? I'm sorry to say but, we don't need a day to remember someone, especially if that day is then followed by "black history month". Live it everyday, and save the "holiday". Hey, at least corporate america hasn't been pompous enough for "save big! at our MLK holiday super special sale prices!"

Then let's eliminate the holiday altogether. Your right, we do have Black History Month.

[*Sanosuke*]

It's a holiday. It shouldn't be a vacation. Put the kiddos in school and just talk about MLK, Jr. All day. THEN spend black history month with the other important(but not as renowned) civil rights activist like Malcom X and the Black Panthers or something.

[mushroom_girl]

Sano...seriously?

Martin Luther King Jr. was by far one of the most intelligent and influential people of the century. He used peaceful, Ghandi-like methods to lead the civil rights movement, and he got so much more accomplished than Malcolm X. MLK really did believe in equality, and knew that if he kept negotiating, peacefully assembling and boycotting, he would get what he wanted. And he did. He gained so much support from people of all races.

Now...Malcolm X wasn't a bad man, but his priorities were a bit twisted for my taste. He was a hypocrite who believed in "an eye for an eye," and got nothing accomplished except for violence and a bunch of racism and hostility towards white people that still exists today. Violence is NOT the answer in something like this, and it made me so angry that someone would dare compare the two men like that. So unless I've been wrongly educated, the men had nothing in common except for more rights for blacks.

And yet another thing, why can't we all just be American? This goes for any race of person who was born here. If you're not from Africa, Italy, Ireland, or Uzbekistan originally, you're an American. Seriously, enough already. I don't like that one bit. A few months ago my teacher asked us what our nationality was...and only a few of us said "American." The only girl with a legitimate response that wasn't that was a girl from England. I don't like that self-segregation stuff, and I don't understand why America can't just make itself an identity of it's own. I've never heard of an "African-Canadian" or a "Irish-Russian." At least not used in the way America uses it. [/rant]

I like having the day off, don't get me wrong...but some people really don't learn anything about the civil rights movement, and could use the day to learn a lot about what Martin Luther King did.

Also, what makes it "Black History Month"? Shouldn't we incorporate so-called "Black History" into the curriculum all year? I consider it my history too.

[Ächilles]

And yet another thing, why can't we all just be American? This goes for any race of person who was born here. If you're not from Africa, Italy, Ireland, or Uzbekistan originally, you're an American. Seriously, enough already. I don't like that one bit. A few months ago my teacher asked us what our nationality was...and only a few of us said "American." The only girl with a legitimate response that wasn't that was a girl from England. I don't like that self-segregation stuff, and I don't understand why America can't just make itself an identity of it's own. I've never heard of an "African-Canadian" or a "Irish-Russian." At least not used in the way America uses it. [/rant]

You're right, this is mostly prevalent in America. The reason you don't hear this in most other parts of the world is because most families can trace their history back for countless generations in their given country. I can only trace my family back to the thirties in terms of living in America. My family hasn't even been in the country for a hundred years. I still have close relatives in Ireland.

This isn't really the case with most countries. There are families in parts of Asia, Africa, Europe - anywhere in the "Old World" (Meaning before the discovery and colonization of the west, as most countries in North and South America are largely transplanted from European countries) - that can literally trace their family routes back to the founding of that country. It's not uncommon in China to have a 30th generation Chinese family.

However, this has somewhat changed in the last century. America has always had that "Oh, my mother is from Italy and my father from Poland!" tendency as other than Natives, we are a satellite of other countries. Since the large scale wars of the 20th century, a lot of emigration has occurred, namely in Europe. When I was in Europe in the Spring, a large number of the people living in London were from Italy, as they were forced to migrate there after WWII. They still identified themselves as "Italian."

I was in the Mediterranean in the Spring, and they have since adopted the phraze "Una Faccia Una Razza," which literally translates to "One Face, One Race." People so heavily identify with their country of origin there - be Albania, Greece, Italy, Turkey, etc... - that it's almost become us against them. There were such a ridiculous number of wars, changes in power, land gained and lost, and migrations over the last few millenniums that everything got jostled around. So it's not uncommon at all to come across someone in the streets of Athens and have them tell you they're Italian.

However, I do agree with you in the sense that this should in no way be a matter of pride. I shouldn't be full of myself because I'm Irish - which originally can be traced back to being Norse. It shouldn't be you tell someone you're this or that as a matter of showing off your nationality. I shouldn't be proud of my nationality. It should be a matter of honor. I'm EXTREMELY honored to call myself Irish. I am not, however, vehemently defending my racial creed when I hear someone tell me they're Kenyan, or Russian, or Japanese. I'm honored I'm Irish, and I'm honored whenever I meet someone of another heritage. Simple as that. It's not "represent your homeland."

[ben66]

And yet another thing, why can't we all just be American? This goes for any race of person who was born here. If you're not from Africa, Italy, Ireland, or Uzbekistan originally, you're an American. Seriously, enough already. I don't like that one bit. A few months ago my teacher asked us what our nationality was...and only a few of us said "American." The only girl with a legitimate response that wasn't that was a girl from England. I don't like that self-segregation stuff, and I don't understand why America can't just make itself an identity of it's own. I've never heard of an "African-Canadian" or a "Irish-Russian." At least not used in the way America uses it.

I think personally that it's part of the retribution for our years of oppresion. So many demeaning terms have been made towards the black race, some leaders such as Jesse Jackson have insisted on African American as a specific and sophisticated term to nominate us. Now, as to whether this is appropriate or not, I think not. It's interesting though, because in other countries like Australia for example we all are just American to them. Maybe it's our way of being more specific, sticking to roots etc. Being black, I can say that your grown up to actually have an objective attitude towards the "white man" and that you have to "work" harder than the "white man" to get the "white man's" opportunities. Grown up with values such as these, you may have heard a black person insulted by being called a "white nigger" or getting to "uppity". Terms like this lead us to use terms like "nigga" to keep close to our "roots". It's our way of pretty much keeping us in a united race, it's stupid yes, but it is our way of saying, "Here's a word reserved for just our race that we only may enjoy." I think this is ridiculous, but even up to this day I struggle with who I let call and can't call me that name. Peer pressure and such really impairs my judgement I have to work on that.

Also, what makes it "Black History Month"? Shouldn't we incorporate so-called "Black History" into the curriculum all year? I consider it my history too.


Once again another one of these things we black people so love to take pride in. In a society, once again, where you implant in your young black children that they have to work harder than their white friends for a certain intangible we like to keep ourselves united and close. It's ridiculous at this point, in a society where racism is so taboo and it is so easy to make something seem to have a racist intent. It is a very much part of our history. But that's a little like taking away Breast Cancer month and someone with brain cancer saying it's my month too. In essence, they represent the same thing but we wanted to keep it individualized for one race and reflect on their accomplishments.



Racism is so far from over. I go to a black-white school that's about 30/70. It's never fun when you go take a piss and a lovely note above your stall says, "Check here if you want all niggers dead." As disgusting as it is, it's always heartening to say, "This is what my leaders fought to end. So they didn't give up, so I won't." I recommend reading the book, Black Like Me by John Howard Griffin. It is a book about a man in the 1950's who was white who decided to take a skin changing pigmant to see what it was to live the life of the "oppressed". He took a trip through the South and was treated more horribly than he ever thought. The details of his trek were something I cannot do justice by explaining. I really recommend going down to your library and checking it out. It's about 250 pages and worth the read. I had to stop myself a few times and look at the side of the book and be faced with the cold hard reality that it's non-fiction. It's not overly depressing, it's just an un-biased truthful account of a white man who was stripped naking and beaten like a dog (figuratively).

[mushroom_girl]

You make a valid point, and I understand what you're saying.....But still, I have my own opinions here. I think that things should be blended together. That's the way to really eliminate any sort of racial divide. Maybe I'm entirely off-base, but I just don't understand why the self-separation.

I understand not being able to tolerate racism, as I don't either. I've felt racism (I went to a school with a majority of black students, leaving me in the minority.) Of course I haven't felt oppression, but y'know....
I think personally that it's part of the retribution for our years of oppresion.
If you want to talk about oppression...go talk to Jewish people. They were hunted and murdered for centuries. The Holocaust is just the biggest chapter in their book, but where's their month? Where's their retribution?

Yes, blacks were oppressed also. I'm not trying to take away from you, but put into respect that a lot of white people also understand what it means to have their ancestors face not only oppression, but persecution. Six million people MURDERED just for being Jewish, 2 million others for being "less than" what Hitler's idea of perfect was. Those are "my" people as well.

Honestly, I don't have "people." I think that's ridiculous. My "people" are the people that I love, not those who share the same skin color as me and I have nothing in common with. Not trying to sound intolerable or anything myself, but I just don't understand self-separating yourself (this goes for anyone, by the way) when people like MLK fought SO hard to blend in together.

That's why I think there is nothing better than taking away the name Black History month and integrating it throughout the whole year. I think that is what is really most appropriate.

I'm not trying to put anything down, I'm just giving my POV here. :)

[Jeffery]

I think personally that it's part of the retribution for our years of oppresion. So many demeaning terms have been made towards the black race, some leaders such as Jesse Jackson have insisted on African American as a specific and sophisticated term to nominate us. Now, as to whether this is appropriate or not, I think not. It's interesting though, because in other countries like Australia for example we all are just American to them. Maybe it's our way of being more specific, sticking to roots etc. Being black, I can say that your grown up to actually have an objective attitude towards the "white man" and that you have to "work" harder than the "white man" to get the "white man's" opportunities. Grown up with values such as these, you may have heard a black person insulted by being called a "white nigger" or getting to "uppity". Terms like this lead us to use terms like "nigga" to keep close to our "roots". It's our way of pretty much keeping us in a united race, it's stupid yes, but it is our way of saying, "Here's a word reserved for just our race that we only may enjoy." I think this is ridiculous, but even up to this day I struggle with who I let call and can't call me that name. Peer pressure and such really impairs my judgement I have to work on that.




Once again another one of these things we black people so love to take pride in. In a society, once again, where you implant in your young black children that they have to work harder than their white friends for a certain intangible we like to keep ourselves united and close. It's ridiculous at this point, in a society where racism is so taboo and it is so easy to make something seem to have a racist intent. It is a very much part of our history. But that's a little like taking away Breast Cancer month and someone with brain cancer saying it's my month too. In essence, they represent the same thing but we wanted to keep it individualized for one race and reflect on their accomplishments.



Racism is so far from over. I go to a black-white school that's about 30/70. It's never fun when you go take a piss and a lovely note above your stall says, "Check here if you want all niggers dead." As disgusting as it is, it's always heartening to say, "This is what my leaders fought to end. So they didn't give up, so I won't." I recommend reading the book, Black Like Me by John Howard Griffin. It is a book about a man in the 1950's who was white who decided to take a skin changing pigmant to see what it was to live the life of the "oppressed". He took a trip through the South and was treated more horribly than he ever thought. The details of his trek were something I cannot do justice by explaining. I really recommend going down to your library and checking it out. It's about 250 pages and worth the read. I had to stop myself a few times and look at the side of the book and be faced with the cold hard reality that it's non-fiction. It's not overly depressing, it's just an un-biased truthful account of a white man who was stripped naking and beaten like a dog (figuratively).
Whos years of oppression????

Personally, my family migrated to the US in the last 2 generations. We did not partake in the slavery of black persons (or other persons)

Why should me and my family be required to pay "retribution" to someone we did nothing to?

Also, why does the term "African American" then have to apply to black people that are neither African in recent decent, not American in current stature? Seems kinda stupid to call someone something when they simply are not what you are calling them.

BTW, I have met Jesse Jackson. The man is so full of himself he could float an entire fleet of hot air balloons.

[*Sanosuke*]

Sano...seriously?

Martin Luther King Jr. was by far one of the most intelligent and influential people of the century. He used peaceful, Ghandi-like methods to lead the civil rights movement, and he got so much more accomplished than Malcolm X. MLK really did believe in equality, and knew that if he kept negotiating, peacefully assembling and boycotting, he would get what he wanted. And he did. He gained so much support from people of all races.

Now...Malcolm X wasn't a bad man, but his priorities were a bit twisted for my taste. He was a hypocrite who believed in "an eye for an eye," and got nothing accomplished except for violence and a bunch of racism and hostility towards white people that still exists today. Violence is NOT the answer in something like this, and it made me so angry that someone would dare compare the two men like that. So unless I've been wrongly educated, the men had nothing in common except for more rights for blacks.

And yet another thing, why can't we all just be American? This goes for any race of person who was born here. If you're not from Africa, Italy, Ireland, or Uzbekistan originally, you're an American. Seriously, enough already. I don't like that one bit. A few months ago my teacher asked us what our nationality was...and only a few of us said "American." The only girl with a legitimate response that wasn't that was a girl from England. I don't like that self-segregation stuff, and I don't understand why America can't just make itself an identity of it's own. I've never heard of an "African-Canadian" or a "Irish-Russian." At least not used in the way America uses it. [/rant]

I like having the day off, don't get me wrong...but some people really don't learn anything about the civil rights movement, and could use the day to learn a lot about what Martin Luther King did.

Also, what makes it "Black History Month"? Shouldn't we incorporate so-called "Black History" into the curriculum all year? I consider it my history too.

*High Fives* So true. =)

[uniquinous]

I think personally that it's part of the retribution for our years of oppresion.I have to agree with others. Who's oppression? Who opressed you? Jeffery? Mushroom_girl? Point to the people who did you wrong. Alternately, if you still feel you are being opressed, go back to Africa. :p Honsetly, I'd be in canada, or some european country immediately if things went south for me here. That's the beauty of the freedom that was worked for, eh? Change things, or leave - just please don't sit and complain while doing nothing.

nominate us...
it's stupid yes, but it is our way of saying...
we black people...
we wanted to keep it individualized...
my leaders fought to end...Again, with language like that, I don't think you actually understand the point...

"we black people". classic. I should use that line more often...

I think that things should be blended together. That's the way to really eliminate any sort of racial divide. Maybe I'm entirely off-base, but I just don't understand why the self-separation. I have to say, m_g, your post was one of the best I've read here in a while. It should come as no surprise that the message of the KKK (as far as they will publicly display, such as on their website), is that we should keep the races separate. Something about the rainbow looking ugly if we mix the colors... I find it interesting that you perfectly pointed out that ben66 seems to want the same thing. In essense, his mindset of "keep our race individualized" is exactly the same goal of the KKK, literally.

Something I've found in cooking: if you don't melt into the melting pot, you sink to the bottom of it.

Honestly, I don't have "people." I think that's ridiculous. My "people" are the people that I love, not those who share the same skin color as me and I have nothing in common with.

-----------------------------

BTW, I have met Jesse Jackson. The man is so full of himself he could float an entire fleet of hot air balloons.ok, you and me vs Jesse Jackson: which side would float more balloons? Just trying to get some perspective here.

[Jeffery]

I have to agree with others. Who's oppression? Who opressed you? Jeffery? Mushroom_girl? Point to the people who did you wrong. Alternately, if you still feel you are being opressed, go back to Africa. :p Honsetly, I'd be in canada, or some european country immediately if things went south for me here. That's the beauty of the freedom that was worked for, eh? Change things, or leave - just please don't sit and complain while doing nothing.

I opressed all the blacks. I admit it.

ok, you and me vs Jesse Jackson: which side would float more balloons? Just trying to get some perspective here.

The difference here is I know i am full of shit most of the time. Jesse Jackson has no clue that he is.
Seriously. He runs off at the mouth basically talking for ALL the black people. Who the hell elected him to be the Big Black Daddy?

MLK's speech said "I have a dream..."

Jesse's version would say "We have a dream..." because for some reason he thinks he can speak on behalf of every single black person ever born.

[uniquinous]

Jesse's version would say "We have a dream..." because for some reason he thinks he can speak on behalf of every single black person ever born.even Jesus!? >.>

[mushroom_girl]

Jesse's version would say "We have a dream..." because for some reason he thinks he can speak on behalf of every single black person ever born.
Token: Jesse Jackson is not the emperor of black people!
Stan: ....He told my dad he was.
;)

I completely agree with the point you made, Jeffery, about calling all black people African-American. I know that my friend gets VERY annoyed when people call her that, because she moved here from Jamaica three years ago.

I also agree with Uniq. I never oppressed anyone. My ancestors didn't own slaves, as far as I know. Or even if they did, I don't...so why should I feel guilty? I don't owe anyone anything.

EDIT: Ben, and just to respond to your bit about taking away Breast Cancer month: breast cancer doesn't focus on one race of people, it focuses on all women (and actually some men!) who face this type of cancer, and tries to raise awareness. It is not to commemorate accomplishments, but remember those who died from this terrible disease and help find a cure. Lots of fundraisers make a lot of extra money in that month because people pay more attention. Black History Month is supposed to "emphasize" the teaching of black history. Again, it is my history too. It is history of people in my country, and the changes it brought about to make us such a country today. It is not the same thing. I see where you're trying to go with it...but it's REALLY not the same thing.

And speaking of money...don't even get me started on scholarships based on race. If I'm a better candidate than you, I shouldn't be barred away from financial aid because I'm not black. If you're a better candidate than me, you shouldn't be denied the money you deserve because you're not white or a woman. It's absurd, and I don't like one of the qualifications that will effect my education to depend on my race/gender.

EDIT2: One more thing...women, while not enslaved, were also put at a lower standard in the world than men of any race. Even now, women are paid less than men in the same jobs, black or white. I just thought I would also bring up that women are never paid retributions from men just because we couldn't vote. I'm still looked down upon by some men as inferior, and so are some of my friends. My friend works as a computer tech in Best Buy, and when a man asked her opinion, he said to her face "I'd better go ask a man..." and got the same answer. Sexism also still exists.

[Jeffery]

even Jesus!? >.>
Jesus was Middle Eastern, not black.

[dirka dirka]

Having read Uniq's original post on his outlook on such holidays, I agree with he/she/it. I'm not sure why people bother arguing with he/she/it. He/she/it is correct.

[Excaliber]

If you live your life thinking about racism, that's all your mind is going to let you see. Your mind can turn any everyday event into a racism one if that's what you want. You don't have to go all 23 all over the place.

EDIT: The bottom line is not to let racial differences bother you.

[dirka dirka]

Who said racism was a bad thing? You see a pit bull and assume it's slightly more aggressive than other dogs and tell your children to walk the other way. You see a African American walking down the road at 3a.m. and call the police. You see a person of Indian decent arming a bomb in the airport bathroom. You see a cracker trying to jam on the dance floor and you kick his ass 'cause he sucks so bad.

I'm just saying, maybe racism is bad but profiling is not bad.

[Jeffery]

Who said racism was a bad thing? You see a pit bull and assume it's slightly more aggressive than other dogs and tell your children to walk the other way. You see a African American walking down the road at 3a.m. and call the police. You see a person of Indian decent arming a bomb in the airport bathroom. You see a cracker trying to jam on the dance floor and you kick his ass 'cause he sucks so bad.

I'm just saying, maybe racism is bad but profiling is not bad.
Actually......

I would not call the cops because i saw a black person at 3am. I also wouldn;t tell someone to be more wary of a pit bull than other dogs, as pits being more agressive is a myth. It is upbringing not breed.

The last two are understandable. Except that if I saw anyone of any race with a bomb I think I might just have to call the police.

[dirka dirka]

Actually......

I would not call the cops because i saw a black person at 3am. I also wouldn;t tell someone to be more wary of a pit bull than other dogs, as pits being more agressive is a myth. It is upbringing not breed.

The last two are understandable. Except that if I saw anyone of any race with a bomb I think I might just have to call the police.

Yea, I used poor examples because I couldn't come up with good ones, however.... profiling is good. Hell, if my race blew up buildings I'd expect to be profiled.

[Jeffery]

Yea, I used poor examples because I couldn't come up with good ones, however.... profiling is good. Hell, if my race blew up buildings I'd expect to be profiled.
Profiling for profilings sake is bad. Because It relies on inherent human biases often based on illogical assumptions.

There are certain times where certain activities by certain persons, irregardless of race, should be taken into account to analyze a situation. Such as a bunch of kids hanging out in a dark parking lto late at night wher there has been a lot of vehicle break-ins.

A few days ago, I called the police at 6am because when I pulled into a parking lot of a closed mall, there was a person in dark clothing that rapidly walked away from a coffee trailer on one side of the lot. They then met up with another person, and went around to the side of this closed mall.
Suspicious? Yes, There have been a lot of break-ins lately.

Criminal? Nope. Turned out to be two really old ladies who meet up every day to walk around the mall until it opens, then walk around inside for hours on end. The one lady had walkked over to the coffee trailer to look at the menu for later.

[ben66]

I opressed all the blacks. I admit it.



The difference here is I know i am full of shit most of the time. Jesse Jackson has no clue that he is.
Seriously. He runs off at the mouth basically talking for ALL the black people. Who the hell elected him to be the Big Black Daddy?

MLK's speech said "I have a dream..."

Jesse's version would say "We have a dream..." because for some reason he thinks he can speak on behalf of every single black person ever born.


I love you for saying that Jeffery. That EXACTLY pictured what I think about Jesse Jackson. And let's see wow..many more to reply to.

[ben66]

Who said racism was a bad thing? You see a pit bull and assume it's slightly more aggressive than other dogs and tell your children to walk the other way. You see a African American walking down the road at 3a.m. and call the police. You see a person of Indian decent arming a bomb in the airport bathroom. You see a cracker trying to jam on the dance floor and you kick his ass 'cause he sucks so bad.

I'm just saying, maybe racism is bad but profiling is not bad.

The day that racial profiling becomes "okay" is the day that you can officially drop all of your moral standards. Suppose there are 10 red dots, one red dot decides to rob a bank, therefore you make the "profile" that all red dots are bank robbers. Ethical? In no way, shape or form and to justify that is to be the epitomy of a true racist.

[ben66]

Token: Jesse Jackson is not the emperor of black people!
Stan: ....He told my dad he was.
;)

I completely agree with the point you made, Jeffery, about calling all black people African-American. I know that my friend gets VERY annoyed when people call her that, because she moved here from Jamaica three years ago.

I also agree with Uniq. I never oppressed anyone. My ancestors didn't own slaves, as far as I know. Or even if they did, I don't...so why should I feel guilty? I don't owe anyone anything.

EDIT: Ben, and just to respond to your bit about taking away Breast Cancer month: breast cancer doesn't focus on one race of people, it focuses on all women (and actually some men!) who face this type of cancer, and tries to raise awareness. It is not to commemorate accomplishments, but remember those who died from this terrible disease and help find a cure. Lots of fundraisers make a lot of extra money in that month because people pay more attention. Black History Month is supposed to "emphasize" the teaching of black history. Again, it is my history too. It is history of people in my country, and the changes it brought about to make us such a country today. It is not the same thing. I see where you're trying to go with it...but it's REALLY not the same thing.

And speaking of money...don't even get me started on scholarships based on race. If I'm a better candidate than you, I shouldn't be barred away from financial aid because I'm not black. If you're a better candidate than me, you shouldn't be denied the money you deserve because you're not white or a woman. It's absurd, and I don't like one of the qualifications that will effect my education to depend on my race/gender.

EDIT2: One more thing...women, while not enslaved, were also put at a lower standard in the world than men of any race. Even now, women are paid less than men in the same jobs, black or white. I just thought I would also bring up that women are never paid retributions from men just because we couldn't vote. I'm still looked down upon by some men as inferior, and so are some of my friends. My friend works as a computer tech in Best Buy, and when a man asked her opinion, he said to her face "I'd better go ask a man..." and got the same answer. Sexism also still exists.

You all opened my eyes to a completely different light, and I guess this goes to say that racism damages EVERY race involved. The comment someone made on Jews earlier about how they suffered. Jews have possibly suffered worse than any group in the history of the world: Aftermath of Jesus's death, THe Crusades, The Spanish Inquisition, The Black Plauge being blamed on them, The Holocaust and many other situations.

We as a black people and yes aequitas I can say "we" because I am black, in this instance need to wake up. No white person in today's America owns slaves (hopefully not) and generally black people are able to develop a nice life, marry and go on happily ever after as you see in those movies. Racism is still imminent against all races and all people for the rest of eternity but there is no end, and to think that there is would be foolish. Liz, you probably have the most diverse opinions out of anyone on this website and I thank you for that, because you are able to relate on all basis with firsthand information on how a black, white, hispanic, or jewish person would react to what is said.

The reason why I hate that blacks retaliate against the white race as a whole is because it gives us a bad image. When I went to an all white school many people saw me as the "angry black kid here to make it through the crash of oppression." If someone calls me a nigger, that's not racism. If someone decides to call me a monkey, ape or jungle animal, that's not racism. That's a name, it's an insult and nothing more. No, racism is when my grandfather got back from serving his country and Vietnam and couldn't even eat his first meal in America in a bar because the bartender refuse to serve him based on race. That's racism. That's something I could never tolerate. You can call me all the names you want, but the day you prevent me from enjoying maximum freedoms or being judged on a fair basis is where true racism is. Blacks nowadays have I think made white people actually talk on their tiptoes in media and in life in general. No longer should anyone be afraid to say what they need to say, I don't think hanging nooses is appropriate or that gold announcer's comments on Tiger Woods were appropriate but I don't think it's something blacks should be marching on or making a huge deal about. I talk to my white friends and some people think black people get to get away with more than whites. Maybe their right, maybe their wrong, maybe it's simply neither. I personally think there is a complete balanced system.

I'm REALLY glad I got people like aequitas, lambency, Jeffery, dirka (I guess), and other intelligent people in TAO to help this conversation thrive. I value your opinions a lot higher than you may think I do, and I think through this thread I've seen the smartest people of TAO all together in one gathering. That pleases me and because of this I have been able to see where I have been short-sighted and where the black race in general has been short-sighted and all other races in the world. Hopefully we can all continue our efforts to that equilibrium of racial diversity as Martin Luther King once talked about.

[uniquinous]

First, a point of forum etiquette for you, ben66. It's generally looked down upon and seen as rude for people to double or triple post as you have just done. The forum has built-in functions to avoiding that very easily. Upon your readings, if you want to respond to something mid-thread, click the add button. It looks like this:
http://www.tacticsarena.com/forum/images/buttons/multiquote_off.gif

If, after you've posted something, you find you want to say something more, click the EDIT button found at the bottom of your post. This really only applies if you are the last post in a thread, to avoid multi-posting. Hope this helps a bit.

Now, to your points...


and yes aequitas I can say "we" because I am black, You missed the point. There's a connotation in what you say. If you want to end prejudice, if race shouldn't matter, why do you stress yours so much? Can you not make a point without segregating yourself? By saying "we black people" you are also saying "not all you other people". You're putting a wall up between yourself and your readers (whether they are your race or not) in a single unneeded word. Yes, you can say it, but all those instances of "our civil rights movement leader" or "we black people love..." actually miss the points that MLK was trying to make. If race shouldn't be an issue, why do you cling to yours to make your points? You have no clue what color my skin is - does that demerit my insight?

Practice what you preach.

Liz, you probably have the most diverse opinions out of anyone on this website and I thank you for that, because you are able to relate on all basis with firsthand information on how a black, white, hispanic, or jewish person would react to what is said.I like m_G and all, but... WHAT?!

[dirka dirka]

The day that racial profiling becomes "okay" is the day that you can officially drop all of your moral standards. Suppose there are 10 red dots, one red dot decides to rob a bank, therefore you make the "profile" that all red dots are bank robbers. Ethical? In no way, shape or form and to justify that is to be the epitomy of a true racist.

So like a long as time ago I can drop my moral standards?


Why do you have to make references to Indian bank robbers?

[Jeffery]

So like a long as time ago I can drop my moral standards?


Why do you have to make references to Indian bank robbers?
Are you refering to "Eastern" Indians or "Native American" Indians???

[gryph89]

The day that racial profiling becomes "okay" is the day that you can officially drop all of your moral standards. Suppose there are 10 red dots, one red dot decides to rob a bank, therefore you make the "profile" that all red dots are bank robbers. Ethical? In no way, shape or form and to justify that is to be the epitomy of a true racist.

True, but there are multiple tiny little lines that draw together in the "racial profiling" section.

[Serge]

Human beings are so prejudiced it's disgusting. It has gotten to the point where I have combined all of my prejudices together. I hate humans.

I also want to second what mg said, women were the last group of people to get equal rights, and they're actually a majority group; not a minority. Also, I'm biased but I feel ageism is the most widespread and socially accepted form of discrimination in the United States.

I've gotten to experience lots of discrimination in my life. I grew up in a mostly white area in Ohio, and while my racial makeup is 3/4 white, the remaining 1/4 (my grandmother is from Taiwan) contributed most to my physical appearance. I'm not sure I went a school year without someone asking if the meat on my sandwiches was their pet until I moved to VA. Now that I live in the wonderfully diverse area of NoVA I get to be discriminated against by the minorities for being white, and by the white people for being poor. I love my job: of ten employees, 9 are black and I'm (by most people's definitions) white. I get to watch all the racist white folks walk by every other employee in the store and come ask me for help. And since I have dark hair and dark eyes I get all the hispanic customers coming to me assuming I speak Spanish. (I do, but not to people who assume I do because of my appearance.) Then, I get the snobby adults who walk up to me and say, "Can I talk to a manager?" and then roll their eyes when I say, "I'm the manager on duty." (Since I'm only 19.)

Um, this is long and I'm sleep and food deprived. That is all. Oh, and Affirmative Action is insulting to everyone.

[dirka dirka]

Are you refering to "Eastern" Indians or "Native American" Indians???

He referenced red dots.... I thought it was fairly racist if you ask me.